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  #1  
Old April 5th, 2011, 10:31
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alaskan alaskan is offline
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Ford D35 lockout parts on a Jeep D30

My friend recently purchased a '91 Ranger with manual hubs on a D35 TTB that needed a brake job in a serious way. To make a long story short, the spindle was hosed and we ended up replacing that along with the inner/outer wheel bearings and the spindle lock nuts.

The similarities to the D30 setup are amazing. The wheel bolt pattern is the same the rotors are within 0.08" in radius, they both use 297x u-joints between the inner axle and stub shaft, both 27 spline and roughly the same length (from what I can tell) on the stub shaft.

I researched and there are a few threads on this, but none with any follow through that I can see. It appears to me that you could drill a Ford spindle for the three-bolt pattern on the Jeep knuckle and build everything out from there with the Ford parts. The XJ brake caliper could require some spacing and the XJ knuckle might need to be machined for the slightly larger bore of the Ford spindle.

Anyway, the Ford parts are as common as house flies in the junkyard because the 2WD ford spindles are the same as the 4WD spindles and they're on both Explorers and Rangers.

Has anybody seen this finished up or am I going to be forging new territory? Any gotchas that will make this a non-starter?
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  #2  
Old April 5th, 2011, 11:00
WB9YZU WB9YZU is offline
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Re: Ford D35 lockout parts on a Jeep D30

With enough effort, you can build most anything. What about axle length? Will that be a concern? It sounds like an interesting project, but I'm not sure of the advantages. If you break an axle, will you have time to jump out and disconnect the locks before it rips off the C? WARN made a kit like that, but it seemed unpopular.
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  #3  
Old April 5th, 2011, 11:12
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Re: Ford D35 lockout parts on a Jeep D30

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Originally Posted by Zuki-Ron View Post
With enough effort, you can build most anything. What about axle length? Will that be a concern? It sounds like an interesting project, but I'm not sure of the advantages. If you break an axle, will you have time to jump out and disconnect the locks before it rips off the C? WARN made a kit like that, but it seemed unpopular.
It appears that the length of the stub shafts is about the same, but that doesn't matter all that much because you'd be using Ford stub shafts. I think the advantages would be wheel bearings replaced at 25% of the cost and better mileage from running unlocked hubs on the street.

The conversions are still out there. Warn is $1100, Rugged Ridge is $900 and Mile Marker is $700. It appears to me that junkyard parts with new wheel bearings, new rotors, Mile Marker hubs and the machining would run < $400.
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  #4  
Old April 5th, 2011, 12:24
imtiredzzzz imtiredzzzz is offline
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Re: Ford D35 lockout parts on a Jeep D30

Do it... and report back with a writeup... pretty please

Serious question: How strong are the D35 hubs compared to the Warn kit? or any other hub?? If they can stand up to 33s or 35s and a locker then it would be totally worth investigating. If your gonna end up popping a hub every time you go wheeling then... eh.
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  #5  
Old April 5th, 2011, 12:33
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Re: Ford D35 lockout parts on a Jeep D30

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Originally Posted by imtiredzzzz View Post
Do it... and report back with a writeup... pretty please

Serious question: How strong are the D35 hubs compared to the Warn kit? or any other hub?? If they can stand up to 33s or 35s and a locker then it would be totally worth investigating. If your gonna end up popping a hub every time you go wheeling then... eh.
I don't know anything about the relative strength of hubs. I'm not sure what breaks on them, either. The only vehicle I've had with manual lockouts was an '83 FSJ and it had Warn premiums (the metal ones) and they never broke. My friend plans to beat on the Ranger pretty hard so I'll sit back and see how those cheesy factory manual hubs hold up.
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Old April 5th, 2011, 12:45
kastein kastein is offline
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Re: Ford D35 lockout parts on a Jeep D30

Another take on this (probably way off base) - how similar is the spacing and taper for the balljoints? Could you maybe swap everything balljoints-out (knuckle, bearings, spindle, caliper, rotor, etc) and use the balljoints, steering, and U-joint as the "interface" between the Jeep and Ford parts?

*if* it all lines up, it'll work great because the u-joint and ball joints are already on the same axis. If it doesn't, it won't work at all...
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Old April 5th, 2011, 12:53
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Re: Ford D35 lockout parts on a Jeep D30

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Originally Posted by alaskan View Post
It appears that the length of the stub shafts is about the same, but that doesn't matter all that much because you'd be using Ford stub shafts. I think the advantages would be wheel bearings replaced at 25% of the cost and better mileage from running unlocked hubs on the street.

The conversions are still out there. Warn is $1100, Rugged Ridge is $900 and Mile Marker is $700. It appears to me that junkyard parts with new wheel bearings, new rotors, Mile Marker hubs and the machining would run < $400.
Don't expect better mileage from unlocked hubs. If there is a difference, it's negligible and nearly immeasurable. The primary reason to perform this conversion should be to reduce wear, increase strength, and decrease the costs of maintenance.
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Old April 5th, 2011, 12:59
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alaskan alaskan is offline
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Re: Ford D35 lockout parts on a Jeep D30

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Originally Posted by kastein View Post
Another take on this (probably way off base) - how similar is the spacing and taper for the balljoints? Could you maybe swap everything balljoints-out (knuckle, bearings, spindle, caliper, rotor, etc) and use the balljoints, steering, and U-joint as the "interface" between the Jeep and Ford parts?

*if* it all lines up, it'll work great because the u-joint and ball joints are already on the same axis. If it doesn't, it won't work at all...
The balljoints arrangement looks completely different and so are the knuckles. I think going from the spindle-out with Ford parts is the only option.
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  #9  
Old April 5th, 2011, 13:00
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Re: Ford D35 lockout parts on a Jeep D30

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Originally Posted by HoneyBadger View Post
Don't expect better mileage from unlocked hubs. If there is a difference, it's negligible and nearly immeasurable. The primary reason to perform this conversion should be to reduce wear, increase strength, and decrease the costs of maintenance.
That's probably true. There are people who claim that removing a factory roof rack is good for a 1/2 mpg but that's complete nonsense so I won't be surprised if the hub efficiency thing is false as well. The strength difference appears to be negligible. The stub shafts are the same diameter and nobody seems to really break the unit bearing hubs on Cherokees anyway. I will say that the Ranger seems to bind less on sharp turns than a Cherokee. Not sure if all that adds up to a worthwhile improvement or not. It's just hard to not think about it when you see how close these parts are in person.
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Old April 5th, 2011, 13:04
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Re: Ford D35 lockout parts on a Jeep D30

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Originally Posted by alaskan View Post
I don't know anything about the relative strength of hubs. I'm not sure what breaks on them, either. The only vehicle I've had with manual lockouts was an '83 FSJ and it had Warn premiums (the metal ones) and they never broke. My friend plans to beat on the Ranger pretty hard so I'll sit back and see how those cheesy factory manual hubs hold up.
These conversions are much stronger than the factory pressed, ball bearing units. They use two tapered roller bearings at each wheel and the spindle design is much stronger. Cast rotors are stronger. Mounting and mating surfaces have larger surface areas and therefore run cooler and transmit loads more widely and evenly. Properly engineered hubs will sacrifice the hub itself rather than allow the load to damage structurally vital components.

The reason most modern vehicles include pressed ball bearing units is they are much cheaper to manufacture and are easier to troubleshoot since dealerships can simply replace the entire unit. This also allows for increased profits when replacements are necessary.

Last edited by HoneyBadger; April 5th, 2011 at 13:09.
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  #11  
Old April 5th, 2011, 13:22
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Re: Ford D35 lockout parts on a Jeep D30

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Originally Posted by HoneyBadger View Post
These conversions are much stronger than the factory pressed, ball bearing units. They use two tapered roller bearings at each wheel and the spindle design is much stronger. Cast rotors are stronger. Mounting and mating surfaces have larger surface areas and therefore run cooler and transmit loads more widely and evenly. Properly engineered hubs will sacrifice the hub itself rather than allow the load to damage structurally vital components.

The reason most modern vehicles include pressed ball bearing units is they are much cheaper to manufacture and are easier to troubleshoot since dealerships can simply replace the entire unit. This also allows for increased profits when replacements are necessary.
The tapered roller bearings do appear to be huge relative to the ball bearings inside the XJ unit bearing. The Ford spindle is machined steel at least (probably not forged, though) and appears to be pretty strong relative to unit design. Heck, the Ford spindle alone is a $200 part if that gives you any idea of the beef difference between the two. And replacing bearings on the Ford with Timkens is $20/wheel instead of $80/wheel on the Jeep.
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  #12  
Old April 5th, 2011, 18:20
aintright aintright is offline
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Re: Ford D35 lockout parts on a Jeep D30

$80 for a unit bearing?! damn son where are you buying them. at napa with the lifetime warranty they are around $150 each. autozone still sells them for $137 with a one year warranty.


another question about that. i wonder how the ford spindles and hubs would work with a wj knuckle
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  #13  
Old April 5th, 2011, 18:23
whitexj98 whitexj98 is offline
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Re: Ford D35 lockout parts on a Jeep D30

I wouldn't care so much about the gas milage. I would like it so I could run factory caster angles and not have drive shaft vibrations and so I wouldn't have to listen to my noisy gears! So somone should try it.
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Old April 5th, 2011, 18:37
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Prosonic Prosonic is offline
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Re: Ford D35 lockout parts on a Jeep D30

Please try this, then report back.
I've been curious about the compatibility of these two axles after helping a buddy rebuild his 35 TTB, and then reading about the compatibility of Dana 60 and Dana 50 TTB parts.

http://www.therangerstation.com has some good info on the TTB 35, if you need a resource for information.
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Old April 5th, 2011, 19:22
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DeftwillP DeftwillP is offline
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Re: Ford D35 lockout parts on a Jeep D30

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Originally Posted by whitexj98 View Post
I wouldn't care so much about the gas milage. I would like it so I could run factory caster angles and not have drive shaft vibrations and so I wouldn't have to listen to my noisy gears! So somone should try it.

Mf'n this.
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