Axle ubolt question

Re: Leaf spring busted loose nut in the frame

Well today was fun...I think LOL. The rear shackle was not stuck after all. Got my knee working again, so I was able to get under the jeep and do the LS install, and I made the mistake (as it turned out),( I think it was a mistake, LOL) of installing the rear bolt first. Only took about 5-10 minutes to figure out how to get the front bolt in.

BUT!!!!!

:soapbox:

After all the shit I went through replacing this broken leaf spring, at the last minute, that die hard nut in the frame on the front popped loose in the frame rail (blind area) and once again told me to Fork Off. hasta

The good thing, after I chilled out, is at least it came loose after I got the old bolt out, and before I got the new bolt partly threaded into it. :scared:

It could have been worse, LOL.

So now the next project is replacing the nut (but how), accessing the old nut and location (cutting an opening?) on the front leaf spring bolt, or replacing the bracket with this?

https://www.ebay.com/i/332529361771?chn=ps

And cutting the old one off. Welding a new one on, But what is the best way to do this? Any other Opps mistakes to try and avoid?

What about alignment of the nut or bracket with the bolt? I will get back under it and inspect it once again tomorrow evening.

Well this is where I am at now:

Do I cut the thing like this?



Or is that an aftermarket bracket like this? And not the bolt location for the OEM bracket I have???? 1987 Renix, rear leaf spring, front bolt.



I found the one above, new, on Ebay for about $34 delivered. I need to climb under the beast again and see where the nut actually hides on mine.

Right now my knee is being a PITA POS right now, so I gotta wait for it chill out again to get under the rig. Getting Old sucks.



At least I solved all the other what if issues.

JeepNoob said:

I think I did try installing the U-bolts and stuff before installing the shackle-to-spring bolt. Problem with that was the leaf spring eye didn't quite line up with the slot in the shackle. I see no problem with compressing the leaf spring with the floor jack and then raising the axle with tge bottle jack.

Click to expand...

I ran into this problem when I did my budget boost, only I had to cut the bolt to get the spring out. The bolt stub was about a 3/8-inch long, thus the huge hole I made to get it out.

I had a lot of extra hardware, so I used the appropriate sized bolt to hold a flange nut in place, then tacked the nut. I massaged the sheet metal into place and ran a downhill bead with a stick welder. That was twelve years ago, no problems so far.



When my buddy had the same problem with his '90, we went through the floor. I'll never do that again! We had to remove a section of the bulkhead for the rear seat, and peel a few layers of sheet metal: There happens to be a seam right above that captured nut.

I am thinking seriously of just cutting an opening like in the photo, using a lock washer on the nut, Locktite and an open end wrench to hold the nut and slap it all together. Someday, as my knee is getting worse Having to dose up with Prednisone till my Doc apt late next week.

Looking at the new aftermarket ones I think there is enough meat there even after cutting an opening, to not need to weld the hole shut or have to add any meat to it? At least for a light duty DD???

Thanks for feed back.

Hypoid said:

I ran into this problem when I did my budget boost, only I had to cut the bolt to get the spring out. The bolt stub was about a 3/8-inch long, thus the huge hole I made to get it out.

I had a lot of extra hardware, so I used the appropriate sized bolt to hold a flange nut in place, then tacked the nut. I massaged the sheet metal into place and ran a downhill bead with a stick welder. That was twelve years ago, no problems so far.

When my buddy had the same problem with his '90, we went through the floor. I'll never do that again! We had to remove a section of the bulkhead for the rear seat, and peel a few layers of sheet metal: There happens to be a seam right above that captured nut.

Click to expand...

Ecomike said:

I am thinking seriously of just cutting an opening like in the photo, using a lock washer on the nut, Locktite and an open end wrench to hold the nut and slap it all together. Someday, as my knee is getting worse Having to dose up with Prednisone till my Doc apt late next week.

Looking at the new aftermarket ones I think there is enough meat there even after cutting an opening, to not need to weld the hole shut or have to add any meat to it? At least for a light duty DD???

Thanks for feed back.

Click to expand...

Honestly, I think you'll be OK with leaving the bottom open. My decision was a reflection of my occupation at the time.

Also, that flange nut I used was the same nut used on the spring to shackle bolt. I used plenty of anti-seize and torqued to spec. It was still tight in 2015 when I swapped the springs.

FlyNNN said:

Its threads like this that make the hair on the back on my neck stand TALL! I have a 90' DD RENIX that is in need of a spring replacement. I have been collecting parts and tools over the last few years getting ready for this job. I'm just a shade tree mechanic trying to keep this XJ alive. I'm worried and dread the day that I start my attempt. Although, I will be well informed and hope for the best. Thanks for sharing your experience and speedy repair.

Click to expand...

A few things that I think are worthy of mentioning:

Start soaking the old hardware with your favorite brand of penetrant at least a week in advance.

Someone here recommended drilling a hole below that captured nut to spray directly into the pocket. I mention this because when I cut mine open, it was packed with dirt. I'll probably do this on the next Jeep.

When my bud got to the other side, he noticed the inboard side of the spring moving away from the captured nut. By that time he had enough room to cut the inboard side of the bolt. That done, he pried the spring inboard and cut through the outboard side of the bolt and dropped the spring.

Good luck!

Good advise.

If I had to do it over, I would just use a grinder and cut rear bolt off both ends and cut a hole for access to the front side nut, PB Blast it daily for a year (LOL), then hit the nut with a torch for 30 minutes. Then we used a mega industrial 3/4" drive electric Impact wrench from hell on it. (Weighed about 25 lbs, LOL)

But in reality, even then (Cutting an access hole and pen-lubing it) I doubt that rusted inner bushing sleeve would have even come loose from the bolt with out doing what we did, which was spending a half day with an 4-1/2 inch grinder cutting the bushing and spring loop end off, then an ultra high speed Dremel tool diamond 3/4" cutting wheel for 2 more hours on the inner sleeve, and finally an air impact chisel to bust the sleeve loose to where it would spin free so I could un-thread the front bolt off. Even then it took 5 to 10 minutes heating the bolt end, and 10 more minutes with the impact to get the the bolt out of the nut.

I actually had two demolition pros help me on this in the last days, and even they were shocked out how tough these damn bolts were. One of them makes a living busting nuts/bolts off rusted high power, large transformers in Chemical plants.

I was shocked that the head on the bolt, and nut did not break when I used a 3/4 " breaker bar, 6 foot of cheater pipe, and the jeeps weight with a floor jack to try and hydraulically press the damn bolts loose of the nuts.

Then we tried a torch for an hour, no joy, Finally we cut the rear nut and then bolt off, and that was the one we could reach.

But I do like a challenge LOL.

Hypoid, thanks for the help!!!

Oh, and BTW, we had zero room to access the inboard sides of the bolts on these two. That meany we had to cut out side ends off first, before we could bend the sides out to where we could reach the inside to cut the bolt again. Took four cuts to get the rear bushing out on this forker.

Hypoid said:

A few things that I think are worthy of mentioning:

Start soaking the old hardware with your favorite brand of penetrant at least a week in advance.

Someone here recommended drilling a hole below that captured nut to spray directly into the pocket. I mention this because when I cut mine open, it was packed with dirt. I'll probably do this on the next Jeep.

When my bud got to the other side, he noticed the inboard side of the spring moving away from the captured nut. By that time he had enough room to cut the inboard side of the bolt. That done, he pried the spring inboard and cut through the outboard side of the bolt and dropped the spring.

Good luck!

Click to expand...

Funny thing is I was so proud of having saving the weld on the sealed up front nut, till it just forking fell off in the last step. :bawl:

Ooo-K,

Now what?

As I mentioned in my last post, at the last minute the front captured nut weld broke, nut came loose. We cut a hole, and got it out.

It was well rusted. But what concerns me now is the OEM welded nut has a tube nipple (best description I can think of?) on the face that gets welded, that went inside the frame hole facing the spring bushing.

Probably used to hold and locate the nut perfectly for welding. The bolt went through that sleeve/tube. The old nut has bad threads now (too much rust and damage....

But I do not think the new OEM or after market flange nuts have that nipple. With out it, there may be some slop and alignment lost as the where the nut locks down since I was not planning to weld the new one, even if I did weld it, hoe do I locate/center it. The tube wall x2 is about .20 to .25" thick (.125" per side?). I am also concerned about wall thickness (rust and loss of any metal on the hanger when the weld broke, and left over weld burs around the hole??

My knee is out again, so I have not been able to get down there with a flash light or scope to inspect it for my self, yet. And my helper that cut the hole to access the nut and got the nut out is blind in one eye and can't see out the other, LOL (He needs new glasses..).

So I am wondering what others found and did when they replaced the nut??? What nut did you use? What did you do about the oversized hole the bolt goes into? What did you do about any repairs or beefing up the plate/face area the nuts rests on????

Hypoid said:

A few things that I think are worthy of mentioning:

Start soaking the old hardware with your favorite brand of penetrant at least a week in advance.

Someone here recommended drilling a hole below that captured nut to spray directly into the pocket. I mention this because when I cut mine open, it was packed with dirt. I'll probably do this on the next Jeep.

When my bud got to the other side, he noticed the inboard side of the spring moving away from the captured nut. By that time he had enough room to cut the inboard side of the bolt. That done, he pried the spring inboard and cut through the outboard side of the bolt and dropped the spring.

Good luck!

Click to expand...

Hypoid said:

I had a lot of extra hardware, so I used the appropriate sized bolt to hold a flange nut in place, then tacked the nut.

Click to expand...

Ecomike said:

Ooo-K,

Now what?

As I mentioned in my last post, at the last minute the front captured nut weld broke, nut came loose. We cut a hole, and got it out.

It was well rusted. But what concerns me now is the OEM welded nut has a tube nipple (best description I can think of?) on the face that gets welded, that went inside the frame hole facing the spring bushing.

Probably used to hold and locate the nut perfectly for welding. The bolt went through that sleeve/tube. The old nut has bad threads now (too much rust and damage....

But I do not think the new OEM or after market flange nuts have that nipple. With out it, there may be some slop and alignment lost as the where the nut locks down since I was not planning to weld the new one, even if I did weld it, hoe do I locate/center it. The tube wall x2 is about .20 to .25" thick (.125" per side?). I am also concerned about wall thickness (rust and loss of any metal on the hanger when the weld broke, and left over weld burs around the hole??

My knee is out again, so I have not been able to get down there with a flash light or scope to inspect it for my self, yet. And my helper that cut the hole to access the nut and got the nut out is blind in one eye and can't see out the other, LOL (He needs new glasses..).

So I am wondering what others found and did when they replaced the nut??? What nut did you use? What did you do about the oversized hole the bolt goes into? What did you do about any repairs or beefing up the plate/face area the nuts rests on????

Click to expand...

I think you overthinkin' this. I used a bolt to hold the nut in place: After using my calibrated eyeball to center the nut, I snugged the bolt enough to keep the bolt and nut axis aligned. After meeting those criteria, I tacked the flange nut in place.

I must have jinxed myself by posting that picture. Last night I was replacing the spring eye bushings and broke the tack welds on the nut.

Since I had to drive it to work today, I held the nut with a wrench and left the bottom open. If I get ambitious, maybe I'll make a flag nut, like the track bar uses.

I see no reason to weld them, the rear nut is not welded or even lock warshered. The bolts come with red lock tite of some sort on them. I think the welded nut was a factory assembly process labor savings thing, not because it needed to be welded.

But in my case I do need to get in there with a mini power tool and clean the surface up so it is clean and flat, remove any weld burs.

Got a steroid shot in my knee 2 days ago that helped so once the rain stops I may be able get down there and finish it finally.

Regarding the knee, its likes tools and shit, always got to fix A to have A usable to fix B, and then B to fix C. LMAO.... Endless it is!!

When I did my leaves last summer, where the original weld nuts were unsalvagable we fished nylocks into the cavity in the hangers.

Probably best to leave the bottom open anyway, so you can spray penetrating oil up into it now and then to keep it from freezing up again (and to allow the junk to drain/wash out).