- Location
- San Diego
yes but with the old ones you have to find a way to seal the transfer case, which would be the hardest part.
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Homebrew 3103-27CV SYE Details
- Thread starter xjbrian
- Start date
crash02
NAXJA Forum User
- Location
- hemet/san jacinto
ironrock offroad sells the seal flange for the old np231 for 40.00,not sure if it uses the stock seal (look like it does and dont see any reason they wouldn't). currie also sells one but its pricey,and if rubicon express is still around they should also sell the seal flange.
Yes, xjbrian did the best job of the splined shaft issues I have read. I know of the Go-Jeep reference (http://jeep-xj.info/HowtoSYEconversion.htm) and some of his methods have me concerned. I am replying to this post in an effort to get answers or increase my level of understanding of my 1988 Xj, 4.0L/converted to AX-15/stock NP-242/converted C8.25 w/4.10 R&P.
I like xjbrian's 'spline engagement' point. The same notion applies to thread engagement so I intend to follow his practice rather than the Go-Jeep measurements for overlapping my NP-242 output shaft and 3103-27CV.
However, what concerns me most about the Go-Jeep procedure is that he uses the bearing circlip as xjbrian uses the increased radius of his T-Case output shaft for a positive stop for the 3103-27CV. Furthermore, Go-Jeep actually machined his 3103-27CV in a manner resulting in his methods applying external pressure to the T-Case bearing adjacent to the circlip.
Please evaluate my assessment of what Go-Jeep did:
1 - Use of output shaft bearing circlip as a positive stop for penetration of the 3103-27CV on T-Case output shaft (Presumably, this is okay. I'm uncertain if this condition can be met while meeting the 1.1" spline engagement requirement but, will check during my efforts.)
2 - Circlip grooves (...if present) feature a small amount of play perpendicular (i.e., along the shaft) to their clamping force but, would not allow the circlip to be moved much by an external force. If the circlip resides in a groove I would regard this as a positive design factor because, it then locates the bearing or, restricts its movement along the T-Case output shaft and will not have the opportunity to apply pressure to the bearing.
3 - The photos Go-Jeep has in his article indicate the circlip is in direct contact with the bearing (my point #2 above is likely to be invalid - I have not removed the tail cone on my NP-242 yet.) but, the viewing angle is large so the photo is not conclusive with regard to installation details of the circlip.
4 - Applying external pressure to this bearing with the 3103-27CV does not seem to be a good idea to me as this is likely to give rise to increased friction and heat. In turn, the bearing wears more rapidly. I use Red Line synthetic ATF in my T-Case and increasing pressure against this bearing seems like a bad idea.
With that said, engineering is application specific and I recognize I may not understand this drive train yet. I will attempt to get some of my NP-242 measurements and post them tomorrow morning as I intend to use the front drive shaft from this same '88 Xj as it currently sits on my garage floor since I replaced the AW4 with the AX15.
Hopefully, you can understand what I am attempting to convey to the reader. What I need is responses from knowledgeable people that know these pre-96 drive train details.
Please advise.
Thanks,
Rick
I like xjbrian's 'spline engagement' point. The same notion applies to thread engagement so I intend to follow his practice rather than the Go-Jeep measurements for overlapping my NP-242 output shaft and 3103-27CV.
However, what concerns me most about the Go-Jeep procedure is that he uses the bearing circlip as xjbrian uses the increased radius of his T-Case output shaft for a positive stop for the 3103-27CV. Furthermore, Go-Jeep actually machined his 3103-27CV in a manner resulting in his methods applying external pressure to the T-Case bearing adjacent to the circlip.
Please evaluate my assessment of what Go-Jeep did:
1 - Use of output shaft bearing circlip as a positive stop for penetration of the 3103-27CV on T-Case output shaft (Presumably, this is okay. I'm uncertain if this condition can be met while meeting the 1.1" spline engagement requirement but, will check during my efforts.)
2 - Circlip grooves (...if present) feature a small amount of play perpendicular (i.e., along the shaft) to their clamping force but, would not allow the circlip to be moved much by an external force. If the circlip resides in a groove I would regard this as a positive design factor because, it then locates the bearing or, restricts its movement along the T-Case output shaft and will not have the opportunity to apply pressure to the bearing.
3 - The photos Go-Jeep has in his article indicate the circlip is in direct contact with the bearing (my point #2 above is likely to be invalid - I have not removed the tail cone on my NP-242 yet.) but, the viewing angle is large so the photo is not conclusive with regard to installation details of the circlip.
4 - Applying external pressure to this bearing with the 3103-27CV does not seem to be a good idea to me as this is likely to give rise to increased friction and heat. In turn, the bearing wears more rapidly. I use Red Line synthetic ATF in my T-Case and increasing pressure against this bearing seems like a bad idea.
With that said, engineering is application specific and I recognize I may not understand this drive train yet. I will attempt to get some of my NP-242 measurements and post them tomorrow morning as I intend to use the front drive shaft from this same '88 Xj as it currently sits on my garage floor since I replaced the AW4 with the AX15.
Hopefully, you can understand what I am attempting to convey to the reader. What I need is responses from knowledgeable people that know these pre-96 drive train details.
Please advise.
Thanks,
Rick
Feature description and measurements from my pre-96 NP-242 follow:
1 - The t-case output bearing circlip resides in a continuous groove in the output shaft. This makes sense. Recall, Go-Jeep uses a different yoke than the 3103-27CV. This may be why his yoke can travel to the circlip and use it for a positive stop.
2 - I slid my 3103-27CV onto the output shaft and it stops at the increased radius of the output shaft that is 1/8" - 3/16" away from the circlip. This should be the same tapered ridge xjbrian used to stop his 3103-27CV. This feature of the output shaft is drawn in his initial post. I applied some pressure to the 3103-27CV but, it simply will not travel beyond this step in the shaft radius. This is good news. Note that the radius of the output shaft on my pre-96 NP-242 changes along its length as follows: 1) spline radius, 2) smooth radius_1 < spline radius, and 3) smooth radius_2 > spline radius. This is why smooth radius_2 can serve as a positive stop for the 3103-27CV. My guess is that the later MY t-case output shaft features the same relationship in the radius along its length but, xjbrian did not show the splines as possessing the increased radius they do.
Hopefully, this helps the others like me that own the older Xj's!
Rick
1 - The t-case output bearing circlip resides in a continuous groove in the output shaft. This makes sense. Recall, Go-Jeep uses a different yoke than the 3103-27CV. This may be why his yoke can travel to the circlip and use it for a positive stop.
2 - I slid my 3103-27CV onto the output shaft and it stops at the increased radius of the output shaft that is 1/8" - 3/16" away from the circlip. This should be the same tapered ridge xjbrian used to stop his 3103-27CV. This feature of the output shaft is drawn in his initial post. I applied some pressure to the 3103-27CV but, it simply will not travel beyond this step in the shaft radius. This is good news. Note that the radius of the output shaft on my pre-96 NP-242 changes along its length as follows: 1) spline radius, 2) smooth radius_1 < spline radius, and 3) smooth radius_2 > spline radius. This is why smooth radius_2 can serve as a positive stop for the 3103-27CV. My guess is that the later MY t-case output shaft features the same relationship in the radius along its length but, xjbrian did not show the splines as possessing the increased radius they do.
Hopefully, this helps the others like me that own the older Xj's!
Rick
My 3103-27CV was ordered from Powertrain Industries so, I'm glad I decided to measure it before making any cuts. Here are my numbers as compared to xjbrian's.
Internal spline length: 4.10"
End of splines to Washer Shelf: 0.40"
Washer shelf to u-joint parting line: 1.30"
Here is how my '242 AMC' measurements look up to the positive stop shown in xjbrian's initial drawing:
Splined shaft length: 3.30"
Unsplined shaft: 0.75" - 0.78"
In turn, I need to cut my '242 AMC' output shaft retaining 1.50" of its spline length.
Here is how I need to cut my 3103-27CV: 1.85" - 1.88" internal spline length must remain. Total length of 3103-27CV will be = 3.55" - 3.58".
Xjbrian's math gives:
1.50" 242 AMC spline length - 0.40" 3103-27CV unsplined ID length = 1.10"
Additionally, 1.88" 3103-27CV internal spline length - 0.78" 242 AMC unsplined shaft length = 1.10."
Thanks xjbrian! Now I understand!
Rick
Internal spline length: 4.10"
End of splines to Washer Shelf: 0.40"
Washer shelf to u-joint parting line: 1.30"
Here is how my '242 AMC' measurements look up to the positive stop shown in xjbrian's initial drawing:
Splined shaft length: 3.30"
Unsplined shaft: 0.75" - 0.78"
In turn, I need to cut my '242 AMC' output shaft retaining 1.50" of its spline length.
Here is how I need to cut my 3103-27CV: 1.85" - 1.88" internal spline length must remain. Total length of 3103-27CV will be = 3.55" - 3.58".
Xjbrian's math gives:
1.50" 242 AMC spline length - 0.40" 3103-27CV unsplined ID length = 1.10"
Additionally, 1.88" 3103-27CV internal spline length - 0.78" 242 AMC unsplined shaft length = 1.10."
Thanks xjbrian! Now I understand!
Rick
I have a 1999 XJ with a 4.0L engine, automatic, NP231 transfer case, Chrysler 8.25 rear axle, and a new 3 inch budget boost. I had vibes so I tried a transfer case drop. It didn’t work, so I decided I needed a SYE. I started looking at how to do it cheap. I found lots of discussion about home brew SYEs using the 3103-27CV yoke and front drive shafts out of XJs, but I couldn’t find guidance where to cut the yoke and transfer case output shaft. I hope this post helps others.
I have a '97 XJ with 4.0, AW4, NP231 & 8.25...and I'm going around 3.5" - 3.75" of lift. Almost identical situation to the OP.
I ordered the same yoke in prep to do the hack n tap.
BUT, I'm also throwing in an XJ dana 44...which has a 1" shorter tail I believe, requiring a 1" longer shaft.. (got that info below)
http://www.cherokeetalk.com/forum/f8/swapping-xj-dana-44-a-5953/
AND, I'm planning on 1" stretch in the rear to stuff 35's.....
So, I'm left with 2" to make up from the OP's situation. And the OP cut 1.75" off the tailshaft of the TC. I'm also noticing that there is exactly 4.5" of usable shaft on the TC and exactly 4.5" of usable bore on the yoke..
Is it possible that I might just "tap" and not "hack n tap"?? lol..
I know this is probably putting a little extra leverage on the output shaft of the TC..but nevermind that.
crash02
NAXJA Forum User
- Location
- hemet/san jacinto
the shaft is case hardened and you will not be able to drill it by hand without cutting some of the end off.
SolarBell
NAXJA Forum User
- Location
- Wheat Ridge, CO
And the farther the yoke is from the main TC output bearing the more stress you will put on it, which will make it fail faster under higher stress. It would be a much better idea to cut the output shaft as far back as possible and get your driveshaft extended to the correct length.
Good heads up..I could shave the end off...this wouldn't stop me.
While I agree with you...and acknowledged the additional stress..the output shaft is that long from the factory. (I guess that is a bit more weight hanging out there with yoke and cv joint bolted the end of it.) I really liked the idea of carrying one driveshaft spare. And not having to phuck with the factory front shaft. If I have to replace a t-case in a couple of years, they're a dime a dozen at the local u-pull it..
hmm..
Last edited:
- Location
- Billings MT/Rapid City SD
bumping this back up. Have 2 shafts to do, this one is the 231 shaft. Have another 242 shaft to do next.
Anyways here are some pics of progress tonight:
So I need to put a SYE on my DD Jeep and figured I needed one on the racer as well so looking around I found you can make your own version using a output shaft from a TH350. Can get the output shaft from a couple places online and it cost me $60. Part number is 3103-27CV. I got mine from Northern Drivetrain.
So cut a couple inches off the output shaft and the TH350 shaft. The TH350 shaft butts up against a shoulder on the shaft for a positive stop.
Drilled and tapped for a 7/16NF bolt.
So you can see the space inside with both yoke and shaft assembled.
I made this spacer to take up the space and the shoulder of the spacer rests against the yoke. Also turned in a countersink for the Nordlock and bolt to sit into. Probably didn't need to do that step but why not.
Backside, I cleaned it up and removed the burrs:
and fits perfectly
all done with 1 of them
Still have to split the case on the DD and install the new shaft and will probably have to come up with some sort of seal as I think the 231 in the XJ has a goofy rear shaft housing. The 242 has a shorter rear housing and won't require any mucking about with sealing the bearing. I left about 1.5 of splines on the TC shaft and cut about 2.125/2.5" off the TH350 part.
Anyways here are some pics of progress tonight:
So I need to put a SYE on my DD Jeep and figured I needed one on the racer as well so looking around I found you can make your own version using a output shaft from a TH350. Can get the output shaft from a couple places online and it cost me $60. Part number is 3103-27CV. I got mine from Northern Drivetrain.
So cut a couple inches off the output shaft and the TH350 shaft. The TH350 shaft butts up against a shoulder on the shaft for a positive stop.
Drilled and tapped for a 7/16NF bolt.
So you can see the space inside with both yoke and shaft assembled.
I made this spacer to take up the space and the shoulder of the spacer rests against the yoke. Also turned in a countersink for the Nordlock and bolt to sit into. Probably didn't need to do that step but why not.
Backside, I cleaned it up and removed the burrs:
and fits perfectly
all done with 1 of them
Still have to split the case on the DD and install the new shaft and will probably have to come up with some sort of seal as I think the 231 in the XJ has a goofy rear shaft housing. The 242 has a shorter rear housing and won't require any mucking about with sealing the bearing. I left about 1.5 of splines on the TC shaft and cut about 2.125/2.5" off the TH350 part.
