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Please Check my D30 Pattern

ChuckD said:
http://home.comcast.net/~cdutke/patternd30/

I have only set the pinion dept. I have no carrier shims and the backlash feels pretty tight. The gears are 4.88's and a Tru-trac.

TIA

too deep.

also, you aren't making very good pattern prints.

don't spin the pinion.....spin the ring gear "into" the pinion.

also, MEASURE backlash. don't say "feels" tight, unless you've done a dozen r&P jobs.....what are you using to measure backlash?

also, there is NO REASON to pull a pattern, unless you know for certain your backlash is good.

post more pics when you get them!

keep workin!

edit:

whaddyou mean you have "no carrier shims"??????????

what the hell?
 
Beezil said:
too deep.

also, you aren't making very good pattern prints.

don't spin the pinion.....spin the ring gear "into" the pinion.

also, MEASURE backlash. don't say "feels" tight, unless you've done a dozen r&P jobs.....what are you using to measure backlash?

also, there is NO REASON to pull a pattern, unless you know for certain your backlash is good.

post more pics when you get them!

keep workin!

edit:

whaddyou mean you have "no carrier shims"??????????

what the hell?


Ok, calm down big boy, :D

Hey, I am working it, I was'nt asking if it was ready to button her up. I wanted to know more or less where the pinion dept was. So your saying a bit too deep. Well how deep, how much would you say I should start pulling out. I had to add .003 to get started.

So far the backlash has mesured .003 to .004 with my stand and gauge. This is only my second real gear job, I know I don't have the touch, but really you can tell a little.

I realized I needed some shims, the carrier was a bit loose, but the case is tight.

As far as pulling the pattern, I havd only read it about everytime there is a post by you pulling the pattern to pull by the ring gear. Which I have done both times.

http://home.comcast.net/~cdutke/2ndpattern/

Thanks for the help Beez, I love it when you get cracking that whip!
 
ChuckD said:
Ok, calm down big boy, :D

Hey, I am working it, I was'nt asking if it was ready to button her up. I wanted to know more or less where the pinion dept was. So your saying a bit too deep. Well how deep, how much would you say I should start pulling out. I had to add .003 to get started.

So far the backlash has mesured .003 to .004 with my stand and gauge. This is only my second real gear job, I know I don't have the touch, but really you can tell a little.

I realized I needed some shims, the carrier was a bit loose, but the case is tight.

As far as pulling the pattern, I havd only read it about everytime there is a post by you pulling the pattern to pull by the ring gear. Which I have done both times.

http://home.comcast.net/~cdutke/2ndpattern/

Thanks for the help Beez, I love it when you get cracking that whip!
Hey Chuck, I'm sure you know this, so it's for other's info, but that needs more backlash. Any where from .007 to .014 depending on manufacturer's recommendation for that particular R&P set.
 
Okie Terry said:
Hey Chuck, I'm sure you know this, so it's for other's info, but that needs more backlash. Any where from .007 to .014 depending on manufacturer's recommendation for that particular R&P set.

yep.

I'm a huge fan of tighter backlashes, but if you set up a tight backlash, you gotta be more careful, and know how to read a pattern for tight backlash.

yeah, don't waste paint marking gears unless your backlash is where you want it....

on a dana 30, check the pattern when backlash is between .005-.009....if backlash is too tight, or too sloppy, the pattern will be affected by the backlash moreso than the depth, and it might lead you astray....

because your backlash at .003 is too tight to show a good pinion depth pattern, it might not be a good indication, although it appears obvious you are too deep.

keep at it super-stuff, and don't worry, I'll be here to spank you when you need it.

posting with ping pong paddles with airholes at the ready.
 
Chuck, glad to hear you are getting some work done. I still don't see a very defined pattern, so it is hard to say exactly where to go. It is tough to keep pulling it apart, but as you know, you gotta get it right. Just a word of caution about the tru-trac. Be sure that the 3 case bolts are torqued down. I have seen 2 cases of the tru-trac case bolts backing out, (they were in D35s), break off and damage the ring & pinion gears and the housing. The bolts I am talking about hold the case together and come in from the ring gear side. Once I saw that happen I pulled my diff cover and found several of my detroit case bolts loose. Just a little heads up.

Bryan

Edit: as far as the + or - numbers, do the opposite of what the pinion gear reads. A +3 pinion needs .003" removed from the shim thickness
 
Bryan C. said:
Chuck, glad to hear you are getting some work done. I still don't see a very defined pattern, so it is hard to say exactly where to go. It is tough to keep pulling it apart, but as you know, you gotta get it right. Just a word of caution about the tru-trac. Be sure that the 3 case bolts are torqued down. I have seen 2 cases of the tru-trac case bolts backing out, (they were in D35s), break off and damage the ring & pinion gears and the housing. The bolts I am talking about hold the case together and come in from the ring gear side. Once I saw that happen I pulled my diff cover and found several of my detroit case bolts loose. Just a little heads up.

Bryan

Edit: as far as the + or - numbers, do the opposite of what the pinion gear reads. A +3 pinion needs .003" removed from the shim thickness


So the chart on the Shop mannual is wrong? I did check the ring gear side on the TT, I'll remember to check it other side before I close everything up.

As far as the pattern, it's easy to see, my pictures kinda suck. Too much flash. The pattern seems to be centered and wide across but it thin, so I'm back to square one. Luckly I remebered to hone out the old preload bearing, less work for the impact wrench and such.

You don't know where I can find another baffle cheap and quick, I really beat the new one up. :(
 
Gear pattern chart....
standard


Here is a cut and paste from the chrysler manual....
Note the etched number on the face of the drive pinion gear ( - 1, - 2, 0, +1, +2, etc.) The numbers represent thousands of an inch deviation from the standard. If the number is negative, add that value to the required thickness of the depth shims. If the number is positive, subtract that value from the thickness of the depth shim. If the number is 0 no change is necessary.

So with that being said, if the old gear was marked 0, and the new gear is +3, then you would subtract .003" from the pinion depth shim.

As far as the baffle goes. That part, according to Chrysler that is, is not needed. Just measure the thickness of the baffle and add the same thickness of shims under the bearing cup where it was removed. I did this on my diff the last time I rebuilt it. It worked out OK, even though I thought it should have been put back in. I guess time will tell on that one.

Bryan
 
I have the Chysler shop manual, it has a matrix where if your pinion has this, then go to the new pinion number and then do this. I think the matrix is backwards. Then maybe it's just me. :roll:

It makes sense now and why I'm so deep. The Baffle is.002, So I'll ditch it and start over. Now I have a ton on shims to play with. :D


Thanks Bryan

I promise not to go to bed tonight until I can post up an acceptable pattern Capt Beezil Butt!

:patriot:
 
the baffle is .002?????

check your mic dude, that's a thou thinner than a pc. of paper.

maybe you meant .020?????

maybe it is time for bed, eh there gearoil?

nighty-night, see you in the morning sunshine.
 
Yup, you got me on that one, I mis-placed that decimal point. no wonder why everything was sooooo off. I'm soooo stupid.


:D, not really, miss read the book.

I got rid of the shims and ran just the thickness of the baffle, much thicker pattern, but not quite as centered. If I have time to mess with it tomorrow, I'll get the backlash set and then I'll pull another pattern.
 
ChuckD said:
http://home.comcast.net/~cdutke/3rd/

Backlash is at .003

According to my interpretation the pinion may still be a bit deep.

Thanks for all your patience with me, I can't believe that my brain was so off. Must be sniffing that brake cleaner one to many times. :confused1

you are NEVER gonna pull a pattern that will indicate wether or not you have the correct pinion depth with a .003 backlash!

aren't you reading my responses?

chuck, you are a bad boy.

now, get back to work!

since you are at .003, try adding a shim to the side OPPOSITE of the ringgear only.

do not swap shims. see if a .003-.005 thich shim can be added and still be able to install the carrier.

this will open up your backlash a wee bit, and it will put more preload on the carrier bearings.

try to get your BL to .005-.006 and then pull a pattern.
 
Last edited:
photo_4.html


this is pretty close, pull a pattern at .005-.006 to see if it improves, and if you want to run a tighter backlash, go ahead, but don't bother pulling another pattern.

be EXTRA careful on break-in with tighter backlashes.

also, on dana 30's.......make damn sure you have ample carrier bearing preload!

(right click the pic, properties to see which one I was reffering to)
 
Just going by the pictures in your first post, I would move the pinion away from the ring gear around .010" to .015" and move the ring gear to the passager side about .010". This is where I would start, anyway.

According to these instructions:
http://www.ringpinion.com/tech/yukoninst.pdf

The order of adjustments are as follows:
1) Pinion depth
2) Pinion preload
3) Backlash
4) Carrier preload

There are different opinions but I've always had good luck with the above.
 
TLange said:
Just going by the pictures in your first post, I would move the pinion away from the ring gear around .010" to .015" and move the ring gear to the passager side about .010". This is where I would start, anyway.

According to these instructions:
http://www.ringpinion.com/tech/yukoninst.pdf

The order of adjustments are as follows:
1) Pinion depth
2) Pinion preload
3) Backlash
4) Carrier preload


There are different opinions but I've always had good luck with the above.


You really can only look at the 3rd attempt, the first two I was on crack!

My plan so far when I get back home from work (Beezil!) is to take away about another .003 from the pinion depth and then work the backlash for a final pattern.
 
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