• NAXJA is having its 18th annual March Membership Drive!!!
    Everyone who joins or renews during March will be entered into a drawing!
    More Information - Join/Renew
  • Welcome to the new NAXJA Forum! If your password does not work, please use "Forgot your password?" link on the log-in page. Please feel free to reach out to [email protected] if we can provide any assistance.

Problems with clutch, hydraulic system related?

SyCo

NAXJA Forum User
Location
Spokane, WA
98 XJ, 4.0L, AX-15, 60K miles

On the way to class this morning, about to shift to 3rd (or was it 4th...like it matters), pushed the clutch in, felt a *pop*, and the clutch dropped right to the floor like nothing. Absolutely no resistance what so ever.

I was able to pull over off the side of the road, and by now I can't even push the clutch pedal down at all. The furthest it goes is like maybe an inch, it feels like it stops right at the friction point.

Checked the master cylinder, there's fluid, but it's low. Looked at the slave cylinder, it appears to be dry as a bone. There is fluid on the crossmember, it may be brake fluid, it has the same consistency and color, and doesn't smell like 90w. The tranny mount is soaked in it, but I don't see any leaks near/around the slave cylinder.

Any ideas? I REALLY need to get back on the road again ASAP.

Thanks in advance,
Lloyd.
 
You popped either the slave cylinder or the hydraulic line between the slave and master.
 
I haven't had a chance to take a GOOD look at the line from the master to the slave, but I took a quick glance and it looked fine, as I said I didn't see any fluid leakage other than around the tranny mount, which is beyond me....

I won't be able to take a better look at it until tomorrow, but thanks for the suggestions, I'll keep ya'll updated.
 
Took out the hydraulic system, here's my guess as to what happened.

Something failed in the slave cylinder, there wasnt any leakage, but something failed. When it failed, the pedal fell straight to the ground with no resistance. Sometime during me pumping the pedal after the initial failure the cylinder piston from the slave cylinder came loose from the seat in the release fork and reseated itself not in the seat, but rather next to the seat. In this position the cylinder piston could not be pushed any farther, and this is why my clutch pedal would not budge more than an inch.

The removal of both the master and slave cylinders were a cinch.

The most difficult part was removing the hydraulic line through the engine, it was quite obvious the brake booster was installed AFTER the hydraulic clutch system, because it was damn near impossible to remove the line without bending the upper lip of the firewall with a flathead.

But anyways, I want to thank both of ya'll for your help, I have to order the hydraulic assembly today and it should be here before the weekend so hopefully I'll be back on the road by Thursday, delivery and weather permitting.

Upon further inspection of the leak around the crossmember I am pressed to believe it is actually gear oil. However, I am failing to find the source of the leak, but I do know that it only leaks when the vehicle is running, even when the XJ is not in gear and stationary.
 
output seal on trans maybe

I'd guess that the gear oil is coming from a failed output seal on the rear of the trans. Look at the rear flange of the trans where it mates to the TC around the 5:00 position, if looking at it from the rear, for a tiny hole drilled into the flange. See if there's fluid coming from that hole when running and you'll probably find your leak. It's a weep hole designed to let you know when that seal is bad, but it's only on the AX5/15's....doesn't exist on the AW4 because both cases take ATF (I guess), even tho they don't share fluid. I have a back half off an AX5 (on extended-loan from Ghost :))if you want to see it to know what that hole looks like, and where it is. Lemme know if I can help ya.
Jeff
 
Thanks for the reply Jeff, I'll see if I can't check it out in a few days.

I have a feeling that you're probably right, and I can already guess that this isn't an easy job either. I assume the job involves dropping the t-case and tranny and disconnecting the t-case from the tranny?
 
SyCo said:
Thanks for the reply Jeff, I'll see if I can't check it out in a few days.

I have a feeling that you're probably right, and I can already guess that this isn't an easy job either. I assume the job involves dropping the t-case and tranny and disconnecting the t-case from the tranny?
If my half awake mind is working right and we're talking about tranny output seal (on the shaft going from tranny to tcase) then it's not that bad (I did that not too long ago). What you need to do is take the tcase off (as someone unbolts it (last couple bolts), you just lay on a crawler underneath and grab it and slide out with it. Then pull out the seal, put a new one in and you're almost done. What you need to consider is testing the reason why it's failed. Most probably reason is the fact that the vent on top got stuck and when the tranny warmed up you built up pressure and popped the seal. In my case since the little vent on top of the tcase is a pain to get to, I just gave the cap of it a very good "wiggle" while reaching from underneath and hoped that it won't do it again :D and well so far so good. Btw, do plan a full day to take care of that. Also what has helped me was unbolting the exhaust and rotating the tranny with the engine as much downard as I could to access the top t-case bolts.
 
SyCo said:
Upon further inspection of the leak around the crossmember I am pressed to believe it is actually gear oil. However, I am failing to find the source of the leak, but I do know that it only leaks when the vehicle is running, even when the XJ is not in gear and stationary.

Are you SURE it's gear oil? If so, it has to be the tranny. Rear main seal would leak engine oil. Clutch fluid is essentially brake fluid. Transfer case uses ATF. That only leaves one candidate as a source for gear oil -- the tranny. Unless it's the pinion seal on the front axle and blowing back from there.
 
Yeah, 'snot that bad of a job, unless you've never taken your Xmember hardware off before and they're all crappy/rusty/etc...PB is your friend in that case. I had a terrible time getting the seal down here, 'cause nobody knew what I was talking about when I tried to order it (even the stealerships, but that's no surprise). I ended up finding it online at NAPA, got the # and called a local shop, and they had 6 of them in stock @$7 or so. It's officially listed as a "manual trans adapter housing seal" in the parts books, by the way, part #NOS19601.
Jeff
 
Eagle said:
Are you SURE it's gear oil? If so, it has to be the tranny. Rear main seal would leak engine oil. Clutch fluid is essentially brake fluid. Transfer case uses ATF. That only leaves one candidate as a source for gear oil -- the tranny. Unless it's the pinion seal on the front axle and blowing back from there.


Eagle, I'm almost downright positive. I'm using Redline MT90 in there, so it doesn't have the same pungent smell that regular 90W has. It had the same texture and color as brake fluid, but didnt have that same smell, and considering it's leaking around the tranny I am forced to believe it is indeed gear oil.

Haven't had a chance to see if it's leaking for that weep hole Jeff speaks of, I think I might have to go check that out today.

Thanks for the sound advice everyone, I'll keep ya posted.
 
Fantastic, just when I need it to leak, it doesnt! I sat under the drivetrain with a creeper for 10 minutes looking for the leak, nothing. I did get to inspect the areas where it "was" leaking, and it's definitely somewhere above the mount, because that area is saturated while the rest of the rig is clean. Any clues?

BTW Jeff, I was unable to find the weep hole you described, you wouldn't happen to have a picture handy?


Thanks.
 
SyCo said:
Fantastic, just when I need it to leak, it doesnt! I sat under the drivetrain with a creeper for 10 minutes looking for the leak, nothing. I did get to inspect the areas where it "was" leaking, and it's definitely somewhere above the mount, because that area is saturated while the rest of the rig is clean. Any clues?

BTW Jeff, I was unable to find the weep hole you described, you wouldn't happen to have a picture handy?


Thanks.

To look for that hole, look at the passenger side towards the rear of it (actually from the rear). The hole is about 1/4" in diameter and if you get a flashlight and just look all around you wil see it. Btw, when mine leaked, I couldn't see it leaking while it was parked (even parked and running) but after I filled it up it'd leak while driving. What really got to me was that towards the end (I had it leaking for no more then 3 weeks) I'd loose about a quart every 500 miles(in my case it's about 4~5 days)
 
Douse it with brake cleaner on the outside to get all the old crud off, then watch for new leaks to see where they start.
 
.....yeah, installed the new hydraulics today.....no go. Pedal still only goes an inch to the floor.

So I've spent the better part of the night removing the transmission from the engine. Once I physically remove it I'll be able to diagnose the problem, but I'm leaning towards the throwout bearing....

At least with the tranny out I'll be able to easily replace that seal though, because now I'm not right positive that's what's leaking upon better inspection of the weep hole.

Question though, how do you remove the shift lever from the transmission? This is on a 98 AX-15. Thanks!
 
Last edited:
Back
Top