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Another Misfire Thread

Blindtheft

NAXJA Forum User
Location
United States
Ok, I give. I've been banging my head against the wall on this for quite a while now and could use some help troubleshooting. If you're able to assist, it'd be greatly appreciated. I have a 4.7L stroker (Pottenger - TUPY head) with 18,000 miles in my '01 XJ.

Symptoms:

CEL has been intermittent for several months, increasing to just about every trip now. All cylinders have thrown codes along with the general misfire (P0300), but it's typically 4 on its own or with others. Cylinder 3 is there as often as not also. The others show up, but far less frequently. No backfires or stutters, although the computer has put it into limp mode twice. I'd call the idle slightly rough.

Does not matter if the engine is cold, hot, or has been sitting for a couple of days. Usually happens pretty quick - maybe 2-5 minutes after starting. Seems to be getting worse lately as the CEL has now started blinking occasionally the past couple of weeks.

What I've done so far (pretty much all of this needed doing anyway at 150,000 miles, so I've considered it maintenance as well as troubleshooting):

Changed plugs. Old plugs looked fine.

Cleaned all grounds and swapped in solid heavy gauge cables.

Changed oil. Oil looks fine. Went to 5W 20 in case lifters were being pumped up by cold oil.

Went to 4 hole injectors.

Swapped injector 4 with injector from cylinder 1.

Inspected all wiring going to/from the injectors. Found cracked and brittle wires on a couple of injector plugs from what looked to be heat. Rewired those with new pigtails. (I could dig deeper into the wiring harness I suppose - there might be a short buried somewhere, but I did give it a once over.)

Cleaned idle air control valve.

Replaced throttle position sensor.

Replaced crankshaft position sensor (I didn't think this was too bad despite all the posts to the contrary).

Replaced coil rail with Viper coil.

Pressure test - looked good.

Banged on cats and pre-cats. No rocks.

None of this has had any effect whatsoever.

I've read a ton of threads on misfires as well as the FSM. My situation doesn't look like heat soak. As far as I can tell, this leaves me with: i) replacing O2 sensors, ii) the camshaft position sensor (toothpick test), and iii) leakdown test.

Where else should I go with this? Any advice?
 
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if your inclined to do so you can do the tooth pick test. im putting my money on o2 sensors however.

Thank you. I think that has to be most likely. I've found that resetting the computer let's me run code free for quite a bit longer than when I just clear the codes, which I'm hoping results from not having sufficient feedback from the O2 sensors to trip the CEL. We'll find out this weekend:

NwxZtgt.jpg
 
if your inclined to do so you can do the tooth pick test.
An out of adjustment cam synchronizer can cause those problems.
Been there and couldn't believe that something so simple could make such a big difference. Check it, it doesn't cost anything but time.
 
An out of adjustment cam synchronizer can cause those problems.
Been there and couldn't believe that something so simple could make such a big difference. Check it, it doesn't cost anything but time.

Thanks. The four O2 sensors arrive tomorrow. In the meantime, I'll take a toothpick to it tonight and see if that makes the difference. Here's hoping....
 
An out of adjustment cam synchronizer can cause those problems.
Been there and couldn't believe that something so simple could make such a big difference. Check it, it doesn't cost anything but time.

Swing and (still) a miss. I was finally able to check the CPS alignment tonight - it's been wet outside! It was dead on perfect, which is probably to be expected with a newer engine like mine.
 
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if your inclined to do so you can do the tooth pick test. im putting my money on o2 sensors however.

I've replaced both downstream sensors and it's not made any difference. That leaves the two upstream sensors. Given that I've been getting both 303 and 304 most commonly, I'm guessing that cuts down on the odds that its the 02 sensors. It would need to be both of them if so, right?

One more data point: the oil pressure gauge has been acting wonky for a while now. I soldered in a new headlight switch harness after mine melted and noticed it was pegging higher (40+ at all times) soon thereafter. I figured it was a dash ground issue, but replaced the sending unit anyway. That didn't seem to have any effect. It now pops straight to 80 upon starting and stays there.

I'd appreciate any feedback about where to go with it after this as I seem to have run through the more common causes at this point. Leakdown test? MAP sensor? Pull the CPS drive and look for warn gears? Mechanical oil pressure test?
 
Blindtheft;246439255 I have a 4.7L stroker (Pottenger - TUPY head) with 18 said:
Did you upsize to 21-lb injectors, when installing the stroker?
 
I went with these: http://www.ebay.com/itm/281075415650?item=281075415650&viewitem=&vxp=mtr. Someone recommended them at the time, but I can't find any specific reference to flow rate at the moment. FWIW, the misfire codes predated the change from stock to these 4-hole injectors.

Actually, I should have typed 24-lb injectors.
I have a Russ stroker in the garage and have been investigating how to set it up for my 2001 XJ, if possible.
Common wisdom seems to suggest changing the stock, 22.5-lb injectors, for Ford 24-lb injectors.
Common wisdom also includes installing a WEGO, to make sure the mixture is staying within range.
If you don't have a WEGO installed, and are running stock sized injectors, there is a good chance it's running lean, causing the misfire.
A 4.7 stroker can require a lot more fuel than a stock 4.0.
You might want to look into this, a lean condition can burn holes in pistons.

I have the same engine and emissions package. The two mini-cats are so compact that there isn't anyplace to weld in two bungs for the WEGO's 02 sensors.
The WEGO sensors need to be upstream of the mini-cats.
There may be room on the Banks headers, but, with the engine installed, I can't see if enough space if available. It's really tight in there.
 
i was under the impression that the stroker has 18,000 miles on it?

also the upstream sensors affect fuel mixtures. downstream monitors efficiency of the cats.
 
Actually, I should have typed 24-lb injectors.
I have a Russ stroker in the garage and have been investigating how to set it up for my 2001 XJ, if possible.
Common wisdom seems to suggest changing the stock, 22.5-lb injectors, for Ford 24-lb injectors.
Common wisdom also includes installing a WEGO, to make sure the mixture is staying within range.
If you don't have a WEGO installed, and are running stock sized injectors, there is a good chance it's running lean, causing the misfire.
A 4.7 stroker can require a lot more fuel than a stock 4.0.
You might want to look into this, a lean condition can burn holes in pistons.

I have the same engine and emissions package. The two mini-cats are so compact that there isn't anyplace to weld in two bungs for the WEGO's 02 sensors.
The WEGO sensors need to be upstream of the mini-cats.
There may be room on the Banks headers, but, with the engine installed, I can't see if enough space if available. It's really tight in there.

Thank you. I will definitely look into this - I don't want any holes in my pistons!

The injectors that I swapped in were recommended with the stroker in mind, but I still can't seem to find any reference to flow rate.
 
i was under the impression that the stroker has 18,000 miles on it?

That is correct. When I referred to it as "newer" above, I was meaning relative to an engine that I would expect to have significant stretch on the timing chain and therefore a CPS alignment issue. That's more typical at 40k plus miles from what I've read.

also the upstream sensors affect fuel mixtures. downstream monitors efficiency of the cats.

Both can cause the misfire CEL though, yeah? In any event, upstream sensors will be swapped out next. I haven't had time yet to get to those. I hope very much that they're bad.
 
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In any event, upstream sensors will be swapped out next. I haven't had time yet to get to those. I hope very much that they're bad.

I changed both upstream O2 sensors tonight. It does seem to run a bit smoother. I still ended up tripping P0304 though a few minutes into my test drive. :gonnablow

Sizing up injectors next? Leakdown test? Send an oil sample to the lab to look for coolant?
 
Are you sure it doesn't have anything to do with replacing the coil rail with the Viper coil? I'd go back to the original design if you still have the rail and it was functional just to see if the problem goes away.
 
so before it was throwing a p0300 and now just a p0304? maybe try resetting the PCM again and seeing if it was a false code.

if it now stays with cylinder 4 it may be a place to look. check the injector lead with a noid light. it might be a bad wire. or connector.
 
Are you sure it doesn't have anything to do with replacing the coil rail with the Viper coil? I'd go back to the original design if you still have the rail and it was functional just to see if the problem goes away.

100% sure. The trouble predated its installation by many months and there have been no change in symptoms since it went under the hood a couple of weeks ago.

so before it was throwing a p0300 and now just a p0304? maybe try resetting the PCM again and seeing if it was a false code.

I cleared the p0304 from last night and got a flashing CEL and p0304, p0300, and p0303 after driving a half mile this morning.


if it now stays with cylinder 4 it may be a place to look. check the injector lead with a noid light. it might be a bad wire. or connector.

I wired in new connectors - no change. I also split the wiring harness looking for wear, but found nothing. I have a voltmeter (that I don't really know how to use - bought for purposes of troubleshooting this issue), but not a noid light.
 
Did you upsize to 21-lb injectors, when installing the stroker?

I went with these: http://www.ebay.com/itm/281075415650?item=281075415650&viewitem=&vxp=mtr. Someone recommended them at the time, but I can't find any specific reference to flow rate at the moment. FWIW, the misfire codes predated the change from stock to these 4-hole injectors.

I appreciate everyone's help, but lazyxj gets the prize this time. It looks like these have finally solved my issues:

BKomyWx.jpg
 
Ok, I give. I've been banging my head against the wall on this for quite a while now and could use some help troubleshooting. If you're able to assist, it'd be greatly appreciated. I have a 4.7L stroker (Pottenger - TUPY head) with 18,000 miles in my '01 XJ.

Symptoms:

CEL has been intermittent for several months, increasing to just about every trip now. All cylinders have thrown codes along with the general misfire (P0300), but it's typically 4 on its own or with others. Cylinder 3 is there as often as not also. The others show up, but far less frequently. No backfires or stutters, although the computer has put it into limp mode twice. I'd call the idle slightly rough.

Does not matter if the engine is cold, hot, or has been sitting for a couple of days. Usually happens pretty quick - maybe 2-5 minutes after starting. Seems to be getting worse lately as the CEL has now started blinking occasionally the past couple of weeks.

What I've done so far (pretty much all of this needed doing anyway at 150,000 miles, so I've considered it maintenance as well as troubleshooting):

Changed plugs. Old plugs looked fine.

Cleaned all grounds and swapped in solid heavy gauge cables.

Changed oil. Oil looks fine. Went to 5W 20 in case lifters were being pumped up by cold oil.

Went to 4 hole injectors.

Swapped injector 4 with injector from cylinder 1.

Inspected all wiring going to/from the injectors. Found cracked and brittle wires on a couple of injector plugs from what looked to be heat. Rewired those with new pigtails. (I could dig deeper into the wiring harness I suppose - there might be a short buried somewhere, but I did give it a once over.)

Cleaned idle air control valve.

Replaced throttle position sensor.

Replaced crankshaft position sensor (I didn't think this was too bad despite all the posts to the contrary).

Replaced coil rail with Viper coil.

Pressure test - looked good.

Banged on cats and pre-cats. No rocks.

None of this has had any effect whatsoever.

I've read a ton of threads on misfires as well as the FSM. My situation doesn't look like heat soak. As far as I can tell, this leaves me with: i) replacing O2 sensors, ii) the camshaft position sensor (toothpick test), and iii) leakdown test.

Where else should I go with this? Any advice?

(BCM) Body Controll Module
 
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