HP Dana 44 Question

Hello,
I recently acquired a HP dana 44 out of a Ford, which I believe to be a F100 axle, however with all the mounts already stripped off it's hard to tell. However, after doing some research, I came across hi steer knuckles and small bearing spindles and all the goodies off of a chevy, and I'm getting ready to narrow it for my MJ.

I was looking at truss options, and there isn't really a lot. I do have one important question though. If I narrow this axle to use TJ Rubicon shafts(my plan, as wagoneer shafts are getting harder to find, and TJ shafts are plentiful - and the differential SHOULD have the same side-to-side dimensions as a 30 as TJs ran them both), would I be able to use a TJ truss on the axle? I realize the TJ is a low pinion axle, however I was curious about just simply welding on an artec truss and then welding all my mounts on separately.

Thanks,
Francesco

I'm actually doing this exact same swap on my 96 XJ right now with a HP44 and D60 pulled from a 78 F250. I'm keeping mine full width, just using a TNT truss that works for XJ/TJ/ZJ and keeps geometry guesswork to a minimum, and have Ruffstuff's high steer arms and steering kit as well. For the rear I have their 2+ stretch leaf spring mounts.

Personally, I say don't narrow it so you can keep easy access to shafts if/when you break one. I have H2 wheels that I plan on running to keep it somewhat narrow while running full width, just my 2 cents

Francesco said:

If I narrow this axle to use TJ Rubicon shafts(my plan, as wagoneer shafts are getting harder to find, and TJ shafts are plentiful -

Click to expand...

Wagoneer shafts are available from just about every axle manufacturer. The money saved by finding junkyard axle shafts is lost the first time you break one and need another one. I wouldn't consider a D44 axle much of an upgrade if it didn't include some aftermarket axle shafts.

I'd bet that most vendors can get you all 4 shafts in waggy or in Rubicon lengths for the same cost, and I'd bet less than $600 delivered for all 4.

It is worthwhile to attempt to have 'standard' length shafts from some OEM application, as this allows you to order parts without waiting for machine time to make it custom length - but even so, that's not the end of the world.

Francesco said:

and the differential SHOULD have the same side-to-side dimensions as a 30 as TJs ran them both), would I be able to use a TJ truss on the axle? I realize the TJ is a low pinion axle, however I was curious about just simply welding on an artec truss and then welding all my mounts on separately.

Click to expand...

The TJ Rubicon 44 used different inner and outer knuckles than the Ford unit you have, so for the same axle shaft length, the housing tubes and the truss interface with the knuckles would be different. I wouldn't bet that it would be the same side to side entirely. Also with the HP vs LP differences, some significant trimming would be required.

If you feel comfortable, I'd build all my own trusswork and brackets. If that's beyond your comfort zone, I'd look at the TNT customs unit as mentioned above, but expect to trim it some to meet your application.

XJ_ranger said:

Wagoneer shafts are available from just about every axle manufacturer. The money saved by finding junkyard axle shafts is lost the first time you break one and need another one. I wouldn't consider a D44 axle much of an upgrade if it didn't include some aftermarket axle shafts.

I'd bet that most vendors can get you all 4 shafts in waggy or in Rubicon lengths for the same cost, and I'd bet less than $600 delivered for all 4.

It is worthwhile to attempt to have 'standard' length shafts from some OEM application, as this allows you to order parts without waiting for machine time to make it custom length - but even so, that's not the end of the world.


The TJ Rubicon 44 used different inner and outer knuckles than the Ford unit you have, so for the same axle shaft length, the housing tubes and the truss interface with the knuckles would be different. I wouldn't bet that it would be the same side to side entirely. Also with the HP vs LP differences, some significant trimming would be required.

If you feel comfortable, I'd build all my own trusswork and brackets. If that's beyond your comfort zone, I'd look at the TNT customs unit as mentioned above, but expect to trim it some to meet your application.

Click to expand...

Agree 100% on the strength and shafts. I ran a D44 for a year and broke it 3 times. I was on 36 IROK's. What size tire you planning on running?

Me myself I'm content with 35s. No need for 60s. So if I understand you correctly, if I use TJ shaft, because of the difference in inner and outer knuckles, it won't be as easy as shortening the difference between the two axles? In that case, I'd probably end up doing a wagoneer inner on one side and a Dodge on the other to stay around 62" wms. Eventually I'd like to 30 spline the outer shafts but for now I just want to get it together. If been looking at the TNT truss and am considering it, I just think the artec one I'd prettier and would match a rear one as well. I CoulD make a truss but I'm on a space and time constraint unfortunately.

If your dana 44 came out of an f100 or f150, your wms to wms should be around 65". Seems like your asking for a lot more head ache and work for just 2-3" narrower. I say just run the axle like it came, throw some new shafts in it and keep your old ones for spares just in case. Thats atleast the plan im going with on my 44hp front swap.

I have considered keeping it full with, but I already have a geared 44 in the back, and it's not full width. I don't mind shortening it, and I'm doing I will myself, plus I have all the Chevy stuff already, and the axle is already stripped, the only cost is going to be buying inner shafts. Keeping it narrower Is easier to trails around here too, so I'm just going to shorten it. If I ever decide to go full width I can probably sell it and recoup most if not all of my money anyways.

I just want to know if using TJ shafts Is as easy as using wagoneer shafts, or if it is harder due to a different design in the inner Cs, and it I should just use the wagoneer and Dodge shaft. I'm completely capable of shortening and modifying a truss, and can do all of the Fab work required, so there is no problem there.

i run a narrowed HP ford 44 using TJ inners and chevy outers. if i remember my measurements correctly, it comes out right at 61"WMS. when it comes to trussing, i have the TNT stuff. you can get one for a full width axle, index it off the diff, and cut it to fit the spring perches. but on 35s, i rub my long arms at full lock. i i bought the axles used... but i i were to do it myself i would keep the axle full width. my wheels have a healthy offset that gives me a proper scrub radius. but cause the issue noted above. another issue (that you wont have) is my narrowed rear 9", it measures 60" WMS. the chevy calipers are so close to the spring plate that its creates issues as well. an extra 2-4 inches would solve that as well.

i would keep the axle full width and run wheel spacers on the rear. the "my trails are tight, and being narrow helps maneuver" argument is irrelevant if your narrow axle cant go lock to lock. if you have you heart set on narrowing it, i agree 100% with the idea of using click and buy shafts... meaning a measurement where you can buy chromos from any vendor. again, if you have your heart set on narrowing... i would keep the short side stock, and narrow the long tube using a waggy or chevy shaft that gets you somewhere around 62-63 WMS. this moves the diff towards center, giving you more room for the drivers side coil bucket. it also helps give the drive shaft and upper link (assuming 3 link with upper on drivers side) more clearance.

also... consider chromos and super joints a must, or you arent really gaining any strength over a 30. i broke a nitro stub shaft this weekend. my experience had told me that warn hubs were supposed to be weaker than chromos... well, i had to service a shaft on the side of a cliff.

I am redesigning the front suspension for a 3 link, and should be able to move the links inboard enough to be able to turn lock to lock no problem.

I have considered wheel spacers, but I JUST got new tires, and they're a 15, and finding a 15" wheel with proper backspacing is tough. I haven't ruled it out yet, but anything is possible. It's weird that your TJ shafts are only 61" WMS, as wagoneer shafts narrowed with chevy outers adds up to about 61" WMS, and the TJ shafts are about an inch longer... Maybe I will narrow just one side to get it to around 62-63 ish..

Out of curiosity what backspacing are you running that you rub on the long arms?


EDIT: I can turn a Dana 30 lock to lock with 35x12.5 with 3.5" backspacing, so adding 1.5" to the length seems to leave room to spare, no?

Thanks

Accidental post, ignore this.

Buy whatever truss you want, set it on your axle. Buy whatever axles you want, compare the length of your current axles to those axles, narrow the housing that much.
Modify the truss to match your newly narrowed axle, weld things together.

You're spending more time thinking about it than it will take to do it. :cheers:
If you can get Rubicon shafts, get Rubicon shafts. If you can get wagoner shafts, get wagoner shafts.
There are advantages and disadvantages to wider and narrower axles on every trail, so don't worry about 1" in WMS difference all that much.

As long as you can get your springs, shocks, links, and steering to all work together, you can adjust later with backspacing or wheel spacers either way.

Ghost said:

Agree 100% on the strength and shafts. I ran a D44 for a year and broke it 3 times. I was on 36 IROK's. What size tire you planning on running?

Click to expand...

8 years and never broken on 37" MTR's.

The way you drive has a lot to do with carnage.

RedHeep said:

8 years and never broken on 37" MTR's.

The way you drive has a lot to do with carnage.

Click to expand...

IIRC you are on all alloy shafts. I was on non alloy shafts on the 44 on all the breakage. Yes I drive it like I stole it. :cheers:

The reason I'm torn about shafts is because I'd like to use TJ shafts due to them being more popular and usually in stock, as well as having a jeep side-to-side clearsnce like my 30, it's not gonna get closer to the frame or the motor with the differential. There was a comment up there saying because of the different inner C, it's not that easy. I was turned away from the inner shafts on a wagoneer because everyone was saying that it's too short on the short side for a coil bucket, so I was thinking either TJ shafts or a wagoneer long side with a Dodge short side.

I was then confused by the lengths. TJs are a little longer than wagoneer shafts, but someone is stating 61" WMS with TJ shafts, when 62" seems more reasonable. I'm just more confused than when I started lol.
Thanks

The Ford/Chevy/Dodge/CJ old style Dana 44 inner and outer knuckles are different than the XJ/MJ/YJ/TJ inner and outer knuckles.

This really only comes into play when determining axle tube length - and only so the U-joint stays in line with the upper and lower ball joints.

There are hundreds of folks who have narrowed ford axles to wagoner width and used them with coil springs. There are folks who have narrowed them to use Rubicon shafts and used coil springs.

I don't think you can make a bad choice, but I wouldn't start cutting on the axle until you had the shafts you want to run.

For WMS length, its simple math. The outer knuckles and stub shafts wont change the WMS, so only the difference in inner shaft length will change the WMS. Compare the advertised length of the Rubicon and Wagoneer shafts to the Ford shafts you have, then decide what you want. You can also stare at your jeep and imagine what a longer short side shaft would do - realize that moving the pinion to the center of the car makes more room for the coil bucket, but less exhaust to driveshaft clearance, its a balance.

In order:
buy shafts and truss that you like
compare new shaft length to old shaft length. Narrow the housing to match. (cut off C's, shorten tubes, install C's at correct castor, tack weld).
Modify truss and tack weld on.
Put axle under truck and check to make sure all things clear. Adjust if they don't. Other people have figured it out, so clearly it works.

Once your happy, weld it all.

Go wheeling with your new axle.

Im figuring out this is the plan. However, if knuckles and hubs and outer shafts don't dictate WMS, why do people gain WMS when doing chevy/8 lug outers??
Thanks

Francesco said:

Im figuring out this is the plan. However, if knuckles and hubs and outer shafts don't dictate WMS, why do people gain WMS when doing chevy/8 lug outers??
Thanks

Click to expand...

If you assemble your inner and outer knuckles, with the Chevy stuff, then you know what it is. It wont change with the inner shaft length. The measurement from the end of the axle tube to the wheel mount surface will be different than your D30, will be different than the Rubicon 44, could be different than with the ford outer pieces, but once you assemble and measure the Chevy stuff, then all you're doing is moving that entire assembly in and out to match the inner shaft length and maintain u-joint centerline.

The Chevy stub shafts are 1/2" longer than the ford stub shafts, but I'm not sure where this comes out - if the wheel hub is just longer, or if the wheel mount surface moves out as well.

Alright. Thanks for the wisdom, and wish me luck then.