Ball joint reassembly issues. Halfway through project

I'm redoing all the steering today(yesterday)because it's insanely loose at the wheel. 97, 2wd so no axle business up front. Everything was going smoothly until I got to the ball joints. I figured out I just needed more force but then they came out. With severe persuasion. With more persuasion I was able to install the ball joints just fine again. I have the rental press, worked, but with persuasion, and trial and error on which pieces to use.

Now that everything is going back together I've got some problems. The dust boot won't fully seat on the lower joint on either side. It's just a dust boot with no structural stress, so on is good enough right now. I started with the passenger knuckle and here's where the fun starts. There is about half an inch not fully seated into the top of the knuckle. The bolt has been torqued, did I just get the wrong part number? I double checked it a few times, K3134T.

The other thing making me second guess everything is that now that the ball joint nuts are torqued and I've hit both with grease, I can barely rotate the steering knuckle by hand. While is wasn't super loose before, it definitely wasn't this hard to turn. I have to put a lot of muscle in to rotate it, and I'm not sure if this will be okay for the steering system when/if it all gets back together. The studs are spinning, but something still seems off.

Anything I may be overlooking?

Edit: per what I found in the FSM I torqued the top ball joint castle nut to 75 and the lower to 80. Backing them off helps the knuckle rotate easier, but I don't intend on leaving it like that.

Moog part K3134T is correct for the uppers/K3161T lowers.

Someone else may know immediately what you mean by not fully seated by half an inch. Here are some pictures of a completed installation (just happens to be the first one I found). You have already gone through all of this but perhaps you could use the pictures to point out how your installation differs if no one else chimes in. http://www.stu-offroad.com/axle/balljoint/balljoint-1.htm

I just did mine several months ago but I don't recall how stiff they were. I would guess that they are okay if you can move the knuckle at all by hand.

Hopefully this will get something started.

That ring around the ball joint has to be seated all the way flush with the knuckle yoke. I found a piece of pipe the right inside diameter and used that to fully seat the ball joint. My guess is you can use a hammer (on the pipe not the ball joint), I made some pieces (pipe and some small steel plate leftovers)and used the ball joint press to seat the ball joint all the way in. Sometimes they go in there easy, some times not so easy. I also cleaned out the hole for the ball joint some and greased it with copper paste before I ever began. I used a round wire brush in a hand drill to clean it out.

Trying to tighten it flush with the castle nut never even occurred to me.

I had one upper that went in really hard, I eventually managed to press it in there, Believe it was a Moog, but I could be wrong. It acted like the diameter was just a few thousandths to big.

Most dust boots fit over a lip, but I've seen some that were designed to be held in place by a nylon cable tie.

Sorry, I'm having a hard time visualizing what you are saying, maybe this video and part 3 will help??

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XwWKBZRZ178

All four ball joints were installed using the rental tool with the pieces to get the job done. They are fully seated and very much resemble the OEM pieces before I took them out. I moved dust boots around, so the there is less of the ball joint taper showing. What I'm most worried about now is how difficult the knuckles are to rotate. It seems like the uppers on both sides operate ok - the stud turns with the knuckle and castle nut. The bottom is a different story. If I torque the bottom castle nut to spec I can barely turn the knuckle. If I back off, the knuckle will start to loosen the castle nut very quickly. I know I could lock the castle nut in place with the cotter pin, but I'm sure that will fail quickly if it is all that is keeping the castle nut from falling off during normal driving.

So I guess my question is, how hard should it be to turn the steering knuckle once it is on? I haven't even thrown the steering linkages into the equation yet.

Another item worth noting - even though the upper studs work fine, the stud is so long the when fully torqued the castle nut sits about the slot for the cotter pin - making the pin almost useless. If the nut made it all the way down there I would be having serious problems.

You need to put the effort required to move the knuckle in perspective. What effort would be required to manually move the tires from side to side while sitting on the driving surface? The force required to move the knuckle is miniscule compared to that required to move the tires and the power steering can certainly handle the combined resistance.

As long as you have the correct, undamaged components that are torqued to spec, you you should have no problems.

As respects the lower joints, I seem to remember that the cotter pin barely engaging the castle nut but I cannot swear to that. If no one else has commented on this in the meantime, I will look at mine tomorrow. I have a new caliper and hose to install on the passenger side and this will be a good excuse to go ahead and do it (instead of fun things like mowing and edging the lawn).

Watch this video:

Make sure you have your preload set correctly and that you have replaced the preload spacer with the new one. At the end of the video you will see how easy it should be to turn the knuckle.

BleepinJeep said:

Make sure you have your preload set correctly and that you have replaced the preload spacer with the new one.

Click to expand...

I don't think the preload spacer was used in '97.

Yeah definitely didn't see it when I took it all apart. I've watched the videos, and now disaster has struck. I'm attributing it to the cheap replacement ball joints I bought. When properly installed (and they were) The upper stud is so long that the cotter pin doesn't even meet the castle nut. The bottom either keeps it from turning (after seeing the effort in the video to rotate the knuckle I knew something was wrong - it took me putting my back into it to turn the thing) or is too loose. I don't feel comfortable with them. So I decided to bite the bullet and just use parts I knew were decent. As I backtracked everything was going smoothly until I came to reassembly. Now the cheap joints I used (Auto Rite, same part number as Moog but $7 on Rock Auto) required the press to get in, and felt like they were in tight. This time I even used the same part number as the video, the upper and lower box set. I was only using the uppers here because I knew the lowers were for WJ knuckles. When I started on the very first one it was evident something was terribly wrong. I could slide the upper ball joint into the axle by hand. That's right, fully seated without the press or hammer. I tried all the other joints, same thing. It would appear the the $7 ball joints have ruined my front axle. Even the old, worn stock ball joints slid in by hand. The cheapies still required more than hand pressure, but they haven't worked out so far. They have a textured surface, which had now been transcribed to the axle ball joint holes. I don't think this is safe.

So now my options - Use the new ball joints anyway, hoping interference and design will keep them there. I feel like this would be incredibly dangerous and asking for a massive accident, especially as they wear over the next several years.

Go to the junkyard and buy a new axle, cause the C's are essentially ruined.

This is frustrating because I feel like I had a good grasp on the how-to's of the project, but it just wasn't meant to be.

Went back to the store, bought duralast upper and lowers. Textured mating surface. They require the press to fully seat, and the driver's side is awesome right now. The castle nut still doesn't meet up with the cotter pin hole, so it looks like I'll grab some hardened steel washers to space it down. Not ideal, but I think I can live with it. I'll likely use loctite to be safe.

thats the weirdest thing. never heard of anything like that. Hope you get it working properly!

Yeah I held all four uppers together and none of them have had exactly the same stud. On to the passenger side!

I ran into this a month ago on a 97 ZJ. The ball joints were just plain wrong. Replaced with a different brand and it worked well. I can't remember the brand though.

I ended up using Duralast. I normally don't shop at Autozone, but Advance Auto had none on hand. Everything got buttoned up today and after aligning and center the steering wheel, all is good!. Two washers worked well as spacers.

spacers for what?

BleepinJeep said:

Watch this video:

Make sure you have your preload set correctly and that you have replaced the preload spacer with the new one. At the end of the video you will see how easy it should be to turn the knuckle.

Click to expand...

Talyn said:

spacers for what?

Click to expand...

the above is quoted for the link to spacers-- common on early axles (pre-'85 through the early '90's)

He doesn't have a pre 85 axle. That design was stopped around 90 or 91, maybe earlier.

However, I figured out what he used the spacrs for.. to space the castle nut down.

seanyb505 said:

I ended up using Duralast. I normally don't shop at Autozone, but Advance Auto had none on hand. Everything got buttoned up today and after aligning and center the steering wheel, all is good!. Two washers worked well as spacers.

Click to expand...

Be careful with those washers, some are pretty darned soft. I'd be leery of Home Depot or Lowes washers. 5-90 can likely give you the low down on this, washers come in hardness just like nuts and bolts do. The problem is they are rarely marked. They can crush and split or the nut slowly works it's way into the washer and the nut comes loose. Avoid using washers with a galvanized coating, these are often the softest. Just an opinion.

I know what you're talking about. The Moog part K3134T has a notice in the box that states " THIS BALL JOINT DESIGN INCORPORATES A SLIDING STUD WHICH ALLOWS IT TO MOVE IN AND OUT OF THE HOUSING. THIS FEATURE IS NECESSARY FOR CORRECT PART INSTALLATION AND FUNCTION" When I replaced mine several months ago, I used this part from Moog. I installed the ball joint, then greased it before I put everything back together. I noticed that the stud pushed out when I greased it. I figured it was supposed to do that. When it was all put back together, I noticed the 1/2 inch gap where the knuckle slides onto the ball joint. I didn't see the blue notice tag in the box. With the weight back on the suspension, the ball joint stud did not slide back in. I bought new upper joints yesterday thinking that I had done something wrong. I opened the box last night, and I see this blue tag with the notice on it. The instructions say to grease it before it's put back together. I'm guessing the same thing will happen again. I might try a different brand, maybe some from G2 or Alloy. My lowers did not have this issue.

jdsilvaca said:

I know what you're talking about. The Moog part K3134T has a notice in the box that states " THIS BALL JOINT DESIGN INCORPORATES A SLIDING STUD WHICH ALLOWS IT TO MOVE IN AND OUT OF THE HOUSING. THIS FEATURE IS NECESSARY FOR CORRECT PART INSTALLATION AND FUNCTION" When I replaced mine several months ago, I used this part from Moog. I installed the ball joint, then greased it before I put everything back together. I noticed that the stud pushed out when I greased it. I figured it was supposed to do that. When it was all put back together, I noticed the 1/2 inch gap where the knuckle slides onto the ball joint. I didn't see the blue notice tag in the box. With the weight back on the suspension, the ball joint stud did not slide back in. I bought new upper joints yesterday thinking that I had done something wrong. I opened the box last night, and I see this blue tag with the notice on it. The instructions say to grease it before it's put back together. I'm guessing the same thing will happen again. I might try a different brand, maybe some from G2 or Alloy. My lowers did not have this issue.

Click to expand...

Spicer.