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staggered rear shock conversion

Being that my shock mounting hole are way XXXXed up because of rust I was going to make a new cross member with the shocks at the back of the axle.
Why is everyone so worried about axle wrap? The shock doesn't do a damn thing to prevent iAnd they are only used to dampen load and opposing force.
because the shocks as you say "dampen load & opposing forces" axle wrap is just that. if the axle tries to wrap around the axis of the tubes, staggered shocks can combat that... by "dampen load & opposing forces". make sense?

How many sand cars, desert buggies, and some tropy trucks have angled shocks? Even some RC cars have angled shocks. Being angled doesn't affect its performance.
shocks can be set up properly to run at angles, they can even be set up to run horizontal (think cantilever designs) but they are designed or valved to run in that configuration and a lot of time/money/effort is put into making them work that way. the shocks in the pictures are not designed to run at that angle, so the valving they are designed with is not working as effectively as it could be. will it be noticed at the slow speeds that are used in? maybe not, but as stated why not use them as they are designed to get the most out of them.

As long as the shafts protrudes into the shock body dampening will happen. Yes it is out of the norm for an xj but not necessarily a bad thing. And the bump stops are not the end of the world. More needed on a jeep speed than a rock crawler.
the lack of bumpstops may not be the end of the world, but seeing as they are a simple addition to an already modded rig, again why not add them?
as for jeepspeed more then rock crawling... have you ever been in a rig that drops off a big rock without bumpstops? it's either axle onto frame which is a pretty stiff jolt, or the shocks bottom out which really doesn't bode well for them lasting very long. for about $20 in parts you could atleast grab some after market universal bumpstops that can be made to work on a stock XJ, and would save your back & shocks from a lot of un-needed punishment.

Over all unless you have to run the shocks symmetrically for a reason I would bother.
 
maybe if you have 100% traction at all times and dont use any speed or momentum ever,

shocks help keep the tires planted when tracton is lost or speed is involved.

that and i like doing more with my jeep than crawl rocks at .3 mph.

exactly. hit a bad washout on a exit ramp at a good pace with some weight in the back of your jeep and let me know where you end up.
 
Being that my shock mounting hole are way XXXXed up because of rust I was going to make a new cross member with the shocks at the back of the axle. Why is everyone so worried about axle wrap? The shock doesn't do a damn thing to prevent iAnd they are only used to dampen load and opposing force. How many sand cars, desert buggies, and some tropy trucks have angled shocks? Even some RC cars have angled shocks. Being angled doesn't affect its performance. As long as the shafts protrudes into the shock body dampening will happen. Yes it is out of the norm for an xj but not necessarily a bad thing. And the bump stops are not the end of the world. More needed on a jeep speed than a rock crawler. Over all unless you have to run the shocks symmetrically for a reason I would bother.


FULL OF SHIT, as allways, trophy trucks dont run shocks like that, for one.

You guys are taking the lazy approach to building a jeep, and preaching that it's best. NO, your rig wont explode, sure, it'll work at .3mph. But your still wrong in 3 differant ways.

If my posts offended you, SORRY. Where i come from, i want people to critique my pictures, and if they see a problem, i wanna be the first to know, but you guys just want to get a pat on the back... that'd be fine if you did shit right!

If im an asshole, for calling you out on not having bumpstops, and a shitty shock angle, i dont wanna be the polite jackass that feeds you compliments despite the 2 outta 5 hit rate...
 
What do people do if they move the rear axle back a bit? Would you mount both shocks to the front of the axle?
 
I just finished moving my axle back 3" and swapping in a Dana 60. My shocks will go on top of the leaf spring plates and through the floor to shock hoops. The people who argue shock angle doesn't matter are the same people who think that good shocks are a waste of money. Ride in a jeep with a quality mono tube shock mounted near vertical and tell me that crap shocks mounted at a 45 are even in the same ballpark.
 
Ride in a jeep with a quality mono tube shock mounted near vertical and tell me that crap shocks mounted at a 45 are even in the same ballpark.

fo serious. my 2.0 heavily valved remote resis were worth every penny even just if i was trail riding. i can comfortably cruise through rock strewn access trails that i used to have to crawl through at a snails pace.hell driving fast with good shocks is more comfortable than crawling with cheap shocks.
 
I have seen tons of trophy trucks and big money sand cars have angled shock setups. Most of them are running a arms for long travel type suspension setups but the shock works the same way. Shaft goes in shock is working. It doesn't matter if you put the shock sideways if the shaft is being pushed onthe shock is dampening whatever is pushing it. Yes bump stops are a suspension component that should be there.... But so are sway bars and how many people remove them or disconnect them. That why currie and jks have systems that cost over 500 dollars to stop swaying. Your dick head remarks are old. Go kick your dog. Just because you second guess your work and would like to be assured that it is correct doesn't mean you have to pop off on everyone who doesn't do things to your liking. I'm not saying that the above pics are the best setup but don't trash him because you don't like the idea.






FULL OF SHIT, as allways, trophy trucks dont run shocks like that, for one.

You guys are taking the lazy approach to building a jeep, and preaching that it's best. NO, your rig wont explode, sure, it'll work at .3mph. But your still wrong in 3 differant ways.

If my posts offended you, SORRY. Where i come from, i want people to critique my pictures, and if they see a problem, i wanna be the first to know, but you guys just want to get a pat on the back... that'd be fine if you did shit right!

If im an asshole, for calling you out on not having bumpstops, and a shitty shock angle, i dont wanna be the polite jackass that feeds you compliments despite the 2 outta 5 hit rate...
 
Bails, sorry to pick on you.... but come on..

I have seen tons of trophy trucks and big money sand cars have angled shock setups.
Yeah sure, but those are completely different suspension set ups with custom valved coil overs that have stiffer valving to make up for the slight angle they are at. Or are you saying that you see shocks angled at 45* (/\) on prerunners and dune buggies? Yeah right.

Shaft goes in shock is working. It doesn't matter if you put the shock sideways if the shaft is being pushed onthe shock is dampening whatever is pushing it.
I guess. It will still dampen, but not nearly as much it was designed to.

Yes bump stops are a suspension component that should be there.... But so are sway bars and how many people remove them or disconnect them. That why currie and jks have systems that cost over 500 dollars to stop swaying.
Sway bars are removed/disconnected to improve off road stability and performance. Removing your bump stops can only hurt. Why even compare the two?

Oh and:
Why is everyone so worried about axle wrap? The shock doesn't do a damn thing to prevent iAnd they are only used to dampen load and opposing force

Serious? Go tell that to the Jeep engineers.


Look, we aren't here to bash people and point out bad ideas just to piss people off. We are offering our opinions and knowledge, and the OP (and others) can take it or leave it. No point in getting all butt hurt because we are trying to save someone the trouble of doing something twice... Not to mention the money we could potentially be saving them from spending on new shocks and tires.
 
Shaft goes in shock is working. It doesn't matter if you put the shock sideways if the shaft is being pushed onthe shock is dampening whatever is pushing it.

are you saying that a shock is just as effective when say 5" or less of the travel is used as opposed to 10"?

try again
 
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do you really know why shocks are at an "angle" when used in "trophy trucks and big money sand cars?" most of the time, the shocks are mounted at an angle to pull more travel out of a shock. say a class is limited to a 12" travel shock (not limited by wheel travel) mounting the shock to "sweep" with the axle will net more travel out of the shock by using the axle's travel arc. lastly the guys doing this on "trophy trucks and big money sand cars" are running the valving to make up for the shock's angle; hell most of the applications you're trying to cite to make your shit not stink use a coilover (that may or may not be zero-rated) AND a big ass bypass shock on each corner.

do not think some off the shelf shock can do what a 2.5 C/O and 4.0 bypass can.
 
The shock dampens the same at any angle, if the angle of force being dampened is the same. Mounting them at an angle gives the axle greater leverage to overcome the dampening effect of the axle. Mount the same shock vertically in the same vehicle and drive it. You will feel the difference.
 
The "effective" dampening force is lessened when the shocks are mounted at an angle for the same reason you can get more travel out of the shock by mounting it this way. Since the piston moves less in the shock for the same amount of wheel travel it effectively gives you more travel at the wheel out of the same shock. but also since the shock is using less of the stroke, it isnt dampening as much. Its basically "tricking" the shock into "thinking" that the wheel is not moving as much so its similar to hitting a smaller bump. atleast this is my understanding of it?
 
it would seem the OP has somewhat of an open mind, he came here looking for some help, received quite a few different answers... hopefully he can sift through bails BS and find the good stuff in between.

needless to say, to the original poster... skip bails' posts and go with those he is arguing against. as they say "don't argue with an idiot, they will drag you down to their level, then beat you with experience"
 
ive had both of mine on the back side of my axle since i built my xj and they work fine even though i get crap for the angle there at all the time :) i dont have any crazy axle wrap or anything
IMG00272-20101016-1514.jpg

:doh: According to simple physics and geometry your shocks barely work at that angle.

Now read this: http://www.4x4review.com/Features/Tech/BeAGeniusShockAbsorbers/tabid/307/Default.aspx

Also, in my opinion there's no reason to mount your shocks on the same side of the axle unless you're going through the floor. In that case I'd imagine it would simplify the mounts up top a little bit.
 
according to the link above my shocks are about 70% effective right ? if there at a 45* if im reading that right then how is that barely working i would think under 50% would be barely working :)

Leaf Sprung, Front Axle

If you have a leaf spring, solid front axle with the shackles mounted in the rear, your shock absorbers should be mounted as far outboard as possible, but with a slight lean to the rear (About 1 to 2 degrees of rearward rake for every 2 inches of lift above stock, compounded geometrically). This is because as the suspension cycles, it does so with a slight arc backwards. Transversely, a leaf sprung front axle with the shackles mounted in the front would have a slight rake forward.
Leaf Spring, Rear Axle

Your rear shock absorbers should be mounted as far outboard as possible as well, and in as close to perpendicular to the travel of the suspension. Referring to the location of the shackles above, you’ll want to rake the shock absorbers forward or aft-ward appropriately.
Contradictions

We know that we don’t live in a perfect world and that the rules of thumb above may not work on your rig depending on a series of factors, typically the most prevalent being available space and needed droop (rebound). Regardless, if you try to follow the rules of thumb above as close as possible, you’ll be able to gain the most benefit from the shock absorber as possible.
Angle of the Dangle

shock-genius-1.gif
 
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whatever floats your boat dude. also, those shocks are close to a 60 deg angree.
nope there at 45* :)
I'd say they're at a 45º.

But they're also mounted pretty far inboard.

Either way it's the lazy way.

i call bs how is welding on new mounts on the axle and fabbing up a new crossmember for the top lazy

lazy would have been to leave the pos low hanging stock shock mounts and using the factory top mounts but i felt that it was in my best interest to move them up out of the way . where im from we do alot of rocks and snow neither one is a go fast scenario and i dont dd my heep either so they work just fine for me just sayin maybe cheap but not lazy:cheers:
 
nope there at 45* :)


i call bs how is welding on new mounts on the axle and fabbing up a new crossmember for the top lazy

lazy would have been to leave the pos low hanging stock shock mounts and using the factory top mounts but i felt that it was in my best interest to move them up out of the way . where im from we do alot of rocks and snow neither one is a go fast scenario and i dont dd my heep either so they work just fine for me just sayin maybe cheap but not lazy:cheers:

Your lazy the not lazy way would of been to run them through the floor so there working at the proper angle
 
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