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Again.....what is a "REAL XJ"?

Goatman

NAXJA Forum User
NAXJA Member
Location
Bakersfield, CA
Well, a few of the happenings we've had around here recently made me think of "REAL XJ's" again. XJ buggies, big tires on stock gears, etc. I posted this REAL XJ thing awhile back and it generated some good discussion, so let's have at it again. :D

"REAL XJ'S"

I've been thinking about what we might call the essence of the XJ, or what it takes to build what I'm going to call a "REAL XJ". So, let’s talk about what the Jeep Cherokee is really about. The XJ is a true sport utility vehicle and is able to do many things well. I think everyone has seen by now that the XJ is a very capable trail vehicle. It’s one of the most capable off road vehicles in stock form, and when properly modified can run all the hardest trails, except a few of the most extreme buggy trails and that’s because of all the sheet metal. Besides being a great trail vehicle, we can drive our XJs to the trail comfortably, with the stereo blasting and the heater or A/C on, and all or most of our gear stored inside. Also, when we’re on a dusty trail we can roll up the windows and turn on the A/C. No handkerchiefs around our faces and none of us wear snowmobile suits while driving to the trail in the winter. I think the XJ is both a good street vehicle AND a good trail vehicle and a REAL XJ is built to be good at both. So I think there are a few things that have to be considered when building a REAL XJ.

Now, I have friends who will disagree with me on some of this, and you know who you are, but I’m not talking about a good or bad rig here, or an ultimate trail rig, I’m talking about what makes a REAL XJ. First, a REAL XJ has doors and a roof. You can’t keep the dust out and the heat in if you don’t have doors and a roof, so if this is what you want, fine, but you don’t have a REAL XJ. I’ve seen some nicely done rigs that have removed part of the roof and rear of the vehicle, and then finished it off to look like a crew cab pick up. I think these are REAL XJs because what they did is a very utilitarian modification. A REAL XJ also has an A/C compressor that is still used to cool air, not pump it. A REAL XJ has tires that are not too big for its axles. Since we’re going to drive it home after we run those tough trails, we need to be reliable, so if you have 35" tires on a D35 you don’t have a REAL XJ.

Now, I want to clarify something here. A bone stock Cherokee is a REAL XJ. So it doesn’t matter how much your rig is modified, just how it’s modified, if you want it to be a REAL XJ. Another quality of a REAL XJ is good driving characteristics on the street, even if it’s seriously modified. The steering geometry needs to be correct for the amount of lift, and the components need to be strong enough to endure the type of wheeling you do and still get you home safely. If you have 8 inches of lift and 35" tires and you still have the stock steering, your rig is probably not a REAL XJ. Modifications that make it work better on the trail have to be done in a way that keeps it safe and still lets it work well on the street. A REAL XJ is not a trailer queen, it can be driven to any trail. I don’t mean that you can’t trailer your XJ to an event or trail, but if you have to trailer it, it may be a good trail rig, but it’s not a REAL XJ. A REAL XJ can have short arms or long arms, 30’s or 35’s, a D35 or a D60, but it won’t have 35" tires with stock gears or a track bar made in the shape of a Z.

I’ll tell you about some REAL XJs. A REAL XJ is one that’s nearly stock, is driven halfway across the country, and then runs trails all over Moab. It’s one that’s open in front with a limited slip in the rear, 32" tires and climbs out of Mickey’s Hot Tub. Another REAL XJ runs Axle Alley and Sledgehammer with 32" tires, no body damage, and doesn’t break. A seriously modified REAL XJ is driven to Johnson Valley, runs a bunch of Hammer Trails with no breakdowns, then is driven back home and to work on Monday morning, and does this often. And here’s a REAL XJ for you, it has dual ARB’s and 31’s, is driven 2000 miles to Moab pulling a tent trailer, climbs Dump Bump and other great Moab obstacles, then hauls the family and trailer back home. That’s also a REAL XJ driver.
 
You just said it all. We're supposed to add to this? :cool: :confused: :cool:

Well, I will add one thought: a REAL XJ has an American Motors-designed I-4 or I-6 engine -- not a Chevy 350 (or any other) V-8, with the possible exception of the AMC V-8s that most of you youngsters don't even know about.
 
Eagle said:
You just said it all. We're supposed to add to this? :cool: :confused: :cool:

Well, I will add one thought: a REAL XJ has an American Motors-designed I-4 or I-6 engine -- not a Chevy 350 (or any other) V-8, with the possible exception of the AMC V-8s that most of you youngsters don't even know about.

Well now, Eagle, I have to disagree. To me, the concept of a REAL XJ is keeping it's utilitarian function, or "doing everything well" purpose. It makes no difference what motor is in there. In fact, if a V8 swap increases the drivability and doesn't hurt trail performance, or even adds towing capacity, that's a perfect REAL XJ modification......as long as the rest of the drivetrain and suspension can handle it. :)

Member RXJC ;) :D :D
 
Goatman said:
Well now, Eagle, I have to disagree. To me, the concept of a REAL XJ is keeping it's utilitarian function, or "doing everything well" purpose. It makes no difference what motor is in there. In fact, if a V8 swap increases the drivability and doesn't hurt trail performance, or even adds towing capacity, that's a perfect REAL XJ modification......as long as the rest of the drivetrain and suspension can handle it. :)

Member RXJC ;) :D :D

so an XJ is less XJ if it has a utilitarian function like making the ac comp. blow air for tires, but a swapped in v8 fits the mold? you guys and your CA loop holes amaze me :D

Hunter
 
I think an additional compressor added for OBA is fine but losing a function of the XJ (AC) in order to make another is not in the scriptures. A V8 swap causes the XJ to lose nothing of its creature comforts and conveniences if done right, in fact its a win win situation, more power, smoothness and if your talking an LS1 or better yet LS4, even more efficiency and lighter weight than stock!

Never saw an XJ with no AC BTW, was it standard in all models?

XJguy
 
For the most part I say well said and I often think of something like this when I see pics of beezils rig or any other xj that is all chopped up and tubed out. I may not fit all of your catagories but IMO I drive a real xj. But to all the others who do drive a tubed out version of what used to be an xj, you drive one bad ass trail vehicle but dont you miss what it used to be.
 
XJguy said:
I think an additional compressor added for OBA is fine but losing a function of the XJ (AC) in order to make another is not in the scriptures. A V8 swap causes the XJ to lose nothing of its creature comforts and conveniences if done right, in fact its a win win situation, more power, smoothness and if your talking an LS1 or better yet LS4, even more efficiency and lighter weight than stock!

Never saw an XJ with no AC BTW, was it standard in all models?

XJguy

XJ's did come from the factory w/o AC thats a fact. i just dont see how removing AC makes it less of an XJ. how about if your XJ didnt come with AC and you add a compressor for OBA does that make it more of an XJ? what if someone removed the factory air dam under the bumper along with the rubber splash guard, does that make it more or less of an xj? they did serve a function and Jeep didnt put them on there for nothing ya know. how about if the air dam had fog lights in it, and they didnt replace them? how about the ever popular remove the carpet for durabak, does that make it less of an XJ or more. how about removing sway bars front or rear, thats trading function for function? how about taking off a steering stabalizer?

Hunter
 
How bout if ya never wheel it and it is 8" high and 4x4. Does that make it an XJ? Elitist huh?
I say run what ya brung and wheel it!
 
I think it's a matter of perspective and how you use yours...from the stockers to the most extreme trail rigs to the (shudder) Bling-Bling posers. Every owner has their own idea of perfection.

I know one guy who bought a XJ because there is plenty of room for mega amps and speakers...another one has every chrome accessory you can imagine, needless to say it has never even been off the pavement and the car wax folks send him Christmas cards..I chuckle at that but it's his gig not mine.

Mine is a middle of the road one...Daily driver with the ability to go to the most remote fishing ponds and lakes which is it's intended function...I know my drive train wouldn't survive a lot of the mountain trails. but we dont have mountains in florida.

The most fun thing for me is when i get a wild hair and head to the local mudhole...wait for one of those zillion foot tall zillion foot long quad cab monster motor BIG DOLLAR beasts to git stuck.... and CIRCLE EM with my lil ole 4 banger XJ...:D
 
Good post, and I agree with the concept. It’s basically why I swapped my YJ for an XJ 7 years ago and ain’t ever going back. Now, I do think there can be more than one perfect form for a REAL XJ – you’ve got to suit it to its environment. But, that said, for my version of the perfect form I’d like to add one thing –

MINIMAL LIFT. Compared to other vehicles you see out on serious trails, the XJ is small and can squeeze in places that monster trucks can’t go. That means you have some trails to yourself. Around here, I can take my XJ on some ATV trails. I don’t even like roof racks cuz they limit your ability to sneak under fallen trees that block some trails for taller vehicles. My ideal is a 2 inch lift and fender trimming to fit 31s or 32s. Besides adding size, lift does all sorts of bad things to its performance characteristics, especially on the road, but also on the trail with COG issues. I have to drive a half hour through the city anytime I go anywhere, so if I can corner with the sports cars and weave on the interstate to get out of town fast, I have that much more time on the trail. Also, related to this, you don’t want to make any compromises on turning radius. The XJ is an aggressively sharp turning sumbitch – why give up a couple feet turning radius to run 1-inch bigger tires?
 
Eagle said:
You just said it all. We're supposed to add to this? :cool: :confused: :cool:

Well, I will add one thought: a REAL XJ has an American Motors-designed I-4 or I-6 engine -- not a Chevy 350 (or any other) V-8, with the possible exception of the AMC V-8s that most of you youngsters don't even know about.

I partly agree with you eagle. If you have an I-6 in an XJ you would be making a downgrade by putting in a V-8. The I-6 is a very good light motor that if you really wanted to do mods can make over 400 hp. That is more than enough for a vehicle that only wieghs a little over 3000 lbs. Even totally stock I-6's have tons of torque. A V-8 will not last as long as the I-6 either.

Someone mentioned towing power. I towed over 6000 lbs with my stock I-6 for 1200 miles through VA, WV and PA (pretty hilly states).

Adding a V-8 would just add unnessasary weight IMHO. It is a downgrade from a V-8. If you want a pile of horsepower add a blower to the I-6.

Curt
 
Goatman by your own definition a real XJ never breaks down.

"REAL XJ runs Axle Alley and Sledgehammer with 32" tires, no body damage, and doesn’t break."

"REAL XJ is driven to Johnson Valley, runs a bunch of Hammer Trails with no breakdowns"


If this is the case, I don't believe there are any 'real' XJ's ;)
If you never break anything, you are only trail-riding, not wheelin'
 
The concept is sound - XJ's do it all, comfortably. Doing it with a lot of mods - somewhere a line needs to be drawn just so we can agree on what a XJ is, not that good mods are wrong.

A V-8 transplant is a good example - it's not stock. IIRC the AMC 304 is lighter by 25-30 pounds, just like the Ford 300 - 302 swap in F-trucks. That's alone is not bad, and it doesn't keep it from being a Jeep anymore, but it isn't a REAL XJ.

Would it still be an RX-7 if you tossed the Wankel and shoveled in a 350 Chev? No, it's now a hybrid hot rod. Doesn't make it bad, just not a Real RX-7.
 
why would any one want to get rid of there I-6 or there I-4? they are more capable of producing more torque than a v-8/v-6 would. after having a 4 banger in the 4runner and a 6 banger in the xj i would not have it any other way ( well mybe a supra I-6 in the 4runner?).:D
 
Goatman said:
so if you have 35" tires on a D35 you don’t have a REAL XJ.


That just depends on what D35 you have. The C clip then yeah I'll agree with you.

If you have the 84-90 D35 and 35's and can wheel everything without breaking you have a REAL XJ and a REAL DRIVER.

edit: I agree with everything else. I'm keeping my roof, A/C and carpet. But I am going to remove some of that annoying sheetmetal in the rear and add some tubes to make everything else stay nice looking.
 
XJguy said:
A V8 swap causes the XJ to lose nothing of its creature comforts and conveniences if done right, in fact its a win win situation, more power, smoothness and if your talking an LS1 or better yet LS4, even more efficiency and lighter weight than stock!

But if it's a SBC or a Ford V-8 then it's not an XJ because the engine doesn't come from the same family.

Then it becomes a Cherolazer or a Chronco.

I understand where Richard is coming from, but he's ignoring the family tree aspect. I feel the same way about Chevy V-8s in CJs. They're nice "vehicles" (if done well), but they are not "Jeeps."

It's a question of how far you want to take it and still call it by a name like "Jeep" or "Cherokee." I think we went through this part of the discussion the last time, as well. If you read the 4WD and truck magazines, so of those vehicles have almost nothing original except the VIN plate, but the magazine happily promotes a thing with a reproduction MB body on a Scout frame with a Chevy engine and Ford axles as a "Jeep."

It isn't. It is a home-built vehicle.

To me, and XJ is a Jeep made by AMC/Jeep, Chrysler/Jeep/Eagle, or DaimlerChrysler. There comes a point in modifying it (and I don't claim to know just where thgat point is, but I know some of you have crossed it) that the modifications take over and what's left isn't really a Jeep XJ any longer.
 
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