WHICH HEADER

[papacan]

I know of the big boys like Banks,Borla & etc, but for PRICE has anybody got any input on Pacesetter Headers,good,bad or ? It's hard to tell by what they show you. I have a 90' Cherokee, 4.0L,auto, THANKS

[CartsXJ]

The most bang for you buck I would get the painted pacesetters. If you got the money go with borla.

[LilRhodyXJ]

Doug Thorley

find them on either
rocky-road.com
or kevinsoffroad.com

they are the ones desgined by Mike Leach (he did mopar performance stuff)

[hemihead]

If you have a 2000 up your only choice is Banks, could not find anyone else who makes one. With the pre-cats head pipe and four O2 sensors.

[j99xj]

My pacesetters look like crap but they work very well.

[aroncull]

Banks! Only one recommended by Exhuast Pro's here in Denver...
Got mine from 4 wheel parts for $416 OTD....

[Russ Pottenger]

Hands down the best performance, and quality is from www.CliffordPerformance.net. Get it coated, buy the Y pipe, and make sure it gets a stainless steel flex joint www.autopn.com on it. It will allow the engine to move and keep the header from cracking. Hope this helps. :)

[LilRhodyXJ]

If you have a 2000 up your only choice is Banks, could not find anyone else who makes one. With the pre-cats head pipe and four O2 sensors.
un true the Doug Thorley header is offered for 00 and 01 as well, and I'm pretty sure that its 20001/2s that started with the precats so u may not have them...

heres a good link check it out

http://www.kevinsoffroad.com/exhaust.html

good luck!

[RWKHausSupply]

Dont go Pacesetter, Its more work then its worth and it never really fits right and you will be buying more parts to get it to fit anyways...

[j99xj]

The Pacesetter isn't a bad header, it just looks bad after the paint chips off. But it is the best header for the money. It has reasonably long tubes that enhance part throttle and low rpm torque.

[flyingphil]

Banks all the way. Easy install and killer fit.
http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b276/flyingphil1/banks_jeep020.jpg
http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b276/flyingphil1/banks_jeep027.jpg

[LilRhodyXJ]

do u guys notice a change in the exhaust note with ur headers installed??

[flyingphil]

Most definetly. It sounds like it's firing on all 6 for a change and is a lot smoother off idle.

[LilRhodyXJ]

phil do u have any other exhaust mods??

i have a magnaflow hi flow cat, flowmstr 40, and a mandrel bent pipe and was wondering how it would sound with the edition of headers?

[aroncull]

I love mine.
I went from a cracked stock header and stock pipe etc...and had the stock "log" or square Intake manifold as well.
Replaced the Intake and exhaust manifolds at the same time.
Kept the injectors and rails and havnt moved the MAT sensor to the intake box yet. But!

I have the Banks Header, Intake manifold from a 2000 and 2.5" pipe all the way out to the Vmax cat back muffler turn down and angle cut tip. Kept the stock high flow cat [saved me $$$] The guy at that Exhaust Pros used to "race Jeeps back in the day" and said that banks was the only header he had heard of that he would recommend. He said that Borlas WILL crack...
How does it feel to drive it now??
Awesome, absolutly wonderfull. Crisp throttle and fast, really fast off the line but it gets better whenever i am driving i can get heavy on the skinny and it will take off .. I have since added an Airflow Snorkle and installed it Per Gojeeps recommendation and it really really takes if at around 25MPH i can throttle and it kicks will really go.. Did i say that it goes fast ???

Anyways i have the following set up

1997 4.0 I6 Sport 130Miles
285/75/R16, 4.5" bastard lift
Front warn bumper and rear BPI tire carrier
Roof rack, Rockers
Point is my curb weight is about 4500#,
Shes heavy
but now agile.. all i have to do now is regear and lock
Aaron

[gradon]

I am more than satisfied with my Borla setup with a Magnaflow cat. It's 2.25" until the muffler and then 2" for the tailpipe.

[Menzenski]

has anybody got any input on Pacesetter Headers,good,bad or ? It's hard to tell by what they show you. I have a 90' Cherokee, 4.0L,auto, THANKS
I have a 1990 4.0, AX-15 manual, and I got a painted Pacesetter header about two weeks ago. Aside from the nasty smell and the smoke that was caused by the paint burning off, I'm satisfied with them. I had a cracked manifold before, and a hole in the downpipe, and my muffler didn't really muffle, so I can't really compare it to a stock exhaust in good shape. It did make a difference in power though. It made a noticeable increase in acceleration from low RPMs. I've gone through three tanks of gas since it was installed, and have gotten about 1.8 MPG better than my average before the header. The only other thing I don't like about it (besides the smell) is that the O2 sensor has to be moved. On mine, the wiring to the sensor ended up going down along a UCA, and then going across the front axle. There didn't seem to be another place to put it.

[CartsXJ]

Dont go Pacesetter, Its more work then its worth and it never really fits right and you will be buying more parts to get it to fit anyways...

What pacesetter set-up did you use and what extra parts did you have to buy? On my 98 everything fit, I just used some muffler cement on all the compression joints and everything sealed up nicely. It does put my cat and muffler on a downward slope, I think thats a good winter project, tuck the whole system up higher, but everything bolted up fine. Just remember to use the offset washers when bolting the header up.

[Kittrell]

I'm pretty sure that its 20001/2s that started with the precats so u may not have them...

I'd love to see a picture of a 2002 XJ if you could dig one up................:thumbup:

[LilRhodyXJ]

I'd love to see a picture of a 2002 XJ if you could dig one up................:thumbup:


that would be 2000 and ONE HALF as in half way through the model year...sorry it does look like 01 and 02 but im not that retarded...i may be a F**K tard but come one:D

[XJING]

As far as long term, I have read on various forums of cracks on Banks, Doug Thorley, Pacesetter, but never on Borla. I have had my Borla in for almost 8 years now. Aside from tightening it down as part of maintenence every two years, its never leaked or cracked. If your going have your XJ for the long term get a Borla, you wont be doing it again.

[LilRhodyXJ]

i heard borlas crack as well though...

they are thinner 16ga tube where as banks and thorley are 14ga
and thorleys have 1/2" flanges where as borlas have 3/8ths

my header is cracked right now and im buying a thorley so there my opnion but im sure everyone gets good ones and bad ones..lets face it those suckers get hot and we rattle them around a lot :D

[XJING]

i heard borlas crack as well though...

they are thinner 16ga tube where as banks and thorley are 14ga
and thorleys have 1/2" flanges where as borlas have 3/8ths

my header is cracked right now and im buying a thorley so there my opnion but im sure everyone gets good ones and bad ones..lets face it those suckers get hot and we rattle them around a lot :D

You've head huh? I've read, and did the searches. No biggie get what you want, But if you do do a search, try to find someone who has cracked a borla in a 4.0. Haven't found one yet. Stainless..

[LilRhodyXJ]

You've head huh? I've read, and did the searches. No biggie get what you want, But if you do do a search, try to find someone who has cracked a borla in a 4.0. Haven't found one yet. Stainless..


borlas r way to expensive for me though...arnt they like 500 bucks?'

and by the way im not nocking ur choice of header its just theres a lot ofpros and cons about each one

[XJING]

I got my borla for around 350 but that was years ago. I don't know how much they go for now. I think it would be in line money wise with whats out there though. I just got a set of borlas for my wifes vette, and they were about the same price as the rest of the brands.
All I was saying is I have never READ about a borla cracking on here. JU, JF, or all the rest of the auto forums that I stalk. LOL.
Get the best you can afford, looks like you are doing your research... Putting headers in is one of my least favorite things to do on any vehicle. Take your time and label everything even if your sure you know where it goes. Good Luck

[LilRhodyXJ]

I got my borla for around 350 but that was years ago. I don't know how much they go for now. I think it would be in line money wise with whats out there though. I just got a set of borlas for my wifes vette, and they were about the same price as the rest of the brands.
All I was saying is I have never READ about a borla cracking on here. JU, JF, or all the rest of the auto forums that I stalk. LOL.
Get the best you can afford, looks like you are doing your research... Putting headers in is one of my least favorite things to do on any vehicle. Take your time and label everything even if your sure you know where it goes. Good Luck

my buddy owns an exhaust place around here so he charged me a little less then what he should and everything gets done right...i cant do stuff like that dont have the tools or the knowledge....

BTW anyone have a custom downpipe..if so where did u get it...

[RWKHausSupply]

What pacesetter set-up did you use and what extra parts did you have to buy? On my 98 everything fit, I just used some muffler cement on all the compression joints and everything sealed up nicely. It does put my cat and muffler on a downward slope, I think thats a good winter project, tuck the whole system up higher, but everything bolted up fine. Just remember to use the offset washers when bolting the header up.

Well first was the daym EGR valve tube. Pacesetter cant seem to just adjust the header bung over 1"! PITA. so had to buy two nipples and then hunt down dome high heat tubing.

Next is the PITA header bolt on the bottom I think 2 in from the front. No Freakin way to get that one in with the motor in the rig I think! SO had to leave that bolt out.

Then the O2 sensor. They give you one single wire thats like 30" long and some black heat shrink cover. Well DUH the XJ has a 3 wire O2. SO when they relocate the O2 about15-20" further down stream, its common sence that the install will take about 4ft total of wire. Better solution. Just get a three conductor Color coded piece of wire. The best part even IF they did give ya enough of the all white wire for the install. once you take three pieces of white and slide the cover over them. how the f do you determine which wire is which at the ends since they are all white and covered all but the last inch on either end?

All in all very poorly thoguth out I think. All it would take to get this to be a prime decission.. A new fitting EGR tube, a little more bend in the #2 tube to allow access to the bolt, and then a piece of color coded 3 conductor wire. How hard is that?

[CartsXJ]

Well first was the daym EGR valve tube. Pacesetter cant seem to just adjust the header bung over 1"! PITA. so had to buy two nipples and then hunt down dome high heat tubing.

Next is the PITA header bolt on the bottom I think 2 in from the front. No Freakin way to get that one in with the motor in the rig I think! SO had to leave that bolt out.

Then the O2 sensor. They give you one single wire thats like 30" long and some black heat shrink cover. Well DUH the XJ has a 3 wire O2. SO when they relocate the O2 about15-20" further down stream, its common sence that the install will take about 4ft total of wire. Better solution. Just get a three conductor Color coded piece of wire. The best part even IF they did give ya enough of the all white wire for the install. once you take three pieces of white and slide the cover over them. how the f do you determine which wire is which at the ends since they are all white and covered all but the last inch on either end?

All in all very poorly thoguth out I think. All it would take to get this to be a prime decission.. A new fitting EGR tube, a little more bend in the #2 tube to allow access to the bolt, and then a piece of color coded 3 conductor wire. How hard is that?

Ok, you make a good argument, but seeing as I have 98, I did have to block off the EGR tube, I just used a brass pipe fitting plug of similar size, copper rtv and screwed it in. As far as tighting the bolts I do agree with you that I have yet to see a header on a 4.0L that was easy to access the bolts besides the stock. I've found that a 9/16" racheting wrench to be the best investment I have ever made in a tool. I just went to autozone and got their duralast double end, 5/8" and 9/16", though I wish it was 1/2" on the other side.

But seeing as you've mentioned in other posts that you are a tall guy like me 6'4", you probably have the same problem I do, my arms aren't jointed in the right spots and my hands are too big......does make something a pain in the ass. This is why I always call up my short double jointed buddy, who also jeeps to some repairs. This guy can sit indian style upright under my jeep, you know being big isn't good all the time.

[XJcrazy]

I have a used borla SS I will let go cheap, its off a 90 4.0.. it even has a new Bosch o2 sensor in it.... I can tell you this, with out a muffler its loud as ##@#... I couldnt resist doing a lil rompin with out the muffler on it!

(904) 838 8838 214.00 Retail is 428.00 plus tax and shipping

[brent]

after replacing the cracked BANKS header not once, but four, yes four times, I wouldn't recomend it to anyone, this is what took its place, and in the time it has been installed the banks would have cracked again, true they do have a lifetime warranty, that covers 100% for the first 6 years then goes down from there, but how many times do you want to replace it.

get clifford.

http://www.loganglass.net/pb/wp_c6957de9/images/img1971446a0dbb257c8.jpg
http://www.loganglass.net/pb/wp_c6957de9/images/img5358446a1e42730ee.jpg
http://www.loganglass.net/pb/wp_c6957de9/images/img3027446a1e1959bca.jpg

[flyingphil]

phil do u have any other exhaust mods??

i have a magnaflow hi flow cat, flowmstr 40, and a mandrel bent pipe and was wondering how it would sound with the edition of headers?
Yup, TB spacer, airraid filter, full 2.5 inch exhaust (mandrell) IMCO muffler, like a 40 series but 50 bucks less and it's all heavy steel and fully welded too! Getting a chip soon. It's got zip in da mud now....

Phil

[flyingphil]

after replacing the cracked BANKS header not once, but four, yes four times, I wouldn't recomend it to anyone, this is what took its place, and in the time it has been installed the banks would have cracked again, true they do have a lifetime warranty, that covers 100% for the first 6 years then goes down from there, but how many times do you want to replace it.

get clifford.

http://www.loganglass.net/pb/wp_c6957de9/images/img1971446a0dbb257c8.jpg
http://www.loganglass.net/pb/wp_c6957de9/images/img5358446a1e42730ee.jpg
http://www.loganglass.net/pb/wp_c6957de9/images/img3027446a1e1959bca.jpg

Holly crap, what do you do with your XJ? I pretty much run mine into the ground every weekend and have yet to even begin to hear a leak out of the Banks unit on mine... Looks like you must of pissed off someone on the other end of the phone... I've heard of disgruntled post office workers, but never a Banks employee!!! Just kidding dude. Sucks for you, but it's obvious that yours was not a typical situation. I guess that I'll have to keep an eye on mine then.

Phil

[LilRhodyXJ]

how expensive were those cliffords and can i get them for a 00?

[Russ Pottenger]

how expensive were those cliffords and can i get them for a 00?
$339.00

[Mike L]

Holly crap, what do you do with your XJ? I pretty much run mine into the ground every weekend and have yet to even begin to hear a leak out of the Banks unit on mine... Looks like you must of pissed off someone on the other end of the phone... I've heard of disgruntled post office workers, but never a Banks employee!!! Just kidding dude. Sucks for you, but it's obvious that yours was not a typical situation. I guess that I'll have to keep an eye on mine then.

Phil

There is another guy on this forum who has had 3 or 4 Banks headers crack. So it is not only him.

-Mike

[SCW]

$339.00

www.cliffordperformance.net

[LilRhodyXJ]

www.cliffordperformance.net (http://www.cliffordperformance.net)

are they the first ones in the jeep/amc section...and r u sure they will do it for 00s?

thanks a bunch

[BBeach]

Does anyone know anything about this header? http://www.quadratec.com/products/17604_102_07.htm I know its not going to fit your 2000, but i was curious if anyone has had any experience with it or is it just better to spend another $150 on a nicer edelbrock set?

[Russ Pottenger]

I know we all what to save a buck, and heaven knows were all are lookin for "The" deal. With the time it takes to rip off the old exhaust, put the new header on, and in most cases take the time and money to run over to a muffler shop to fab up some pipe. I would put the best header on and make sure its coated so the thing will not rust and fall off in a few years. My 2 cents. :lecture:

[brent]

are they the first ones in the jeep/amc section...and r u sure they will do it for 00s?

thanks a bunch
it will bolt to the head, it is not a "bolt on" to your existing exhaust, you will need some custom bending/connecting

[brent]

Holly crap, what do you do with your XJ?
Phil
well last weekend I cracked a front wheel, and tore the traction bar out of the rear 9" housing while wheeling, but other than that is sits in the garage.

that lava rock has amazing traction..

[XJING]

well last weekend I cracked a front wheel, and tore the traction bar out of the rear 9" housing while wheeling, but other than that is sits in the garage.

that lava rock has amazing traction..
That makes for a great signature......

[mwildmann]

I think i've got a cracked cast iron exhaust manifold on my 2000 XJ w/ the 4.0L. My mechanic said that it is possibe to weld it shut. Any comments on this type of solution? Why did Jeep switch from a crappy crack prone tubular axhaust header to a crappy crack prone cast iron manifold? Does anyone have any experience with the headers/manifolds for sale on e-bay?? That may have been a stupid question, cause they're probably junk, but i was wondering.

[jeepinwi]

Here's a picture of the banks header:
http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c288/jeepinwi/banks_jeep020.jpg

Now here's a picture of an APN header for about $150:
http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c288/jeepinwi/e6_1.jpg
pretty damn similar, aren't they?

[flyingphil]

ok, now that's just mean spirited..... Just kidding, just wish I knwe this before caughing up the cash for the banks unit.

Phil

[75SV1]

I had a Pace Setter with their Armour Coat for about 3 years. It did OK. It was fine when I pulled it off. I have a Clifford Set on it now. The original poster need to see if the smog laws in his state are stricted. There are only a few header sets for the Renix (EGR) setup. Clifford does/did have the boss welded on, but needed the hole drilled through. I have seen a cracked Borla header recently. Pace Setters also have a reputation for cracking. I haven't heard of them having cracking problems in the past year or so. Maybe they improved their quality.
Tom

[CartsXJ]

Here's a picture of the banks header:
http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c288/jeepinwi/banks_jeep020.jpg

Now here's a picture of an APN header for about $150:
http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c288/jeepinwi/e6_1.jpg
pretty damn similar, aren't they?


If you look at APN, banks, edlbrock, and a few others, they are all the same design and almost dupilcates of each other, really just depends on material. I bet the SS APN and the Banks are the same header, sourced from some china manufacturer. Probably Banks went to them first and since China doesn't have any patent laws, they can sell it to the next guy just as easily.

[aparke4]

it better not be the same header i just spent a few bills and about 8 hours getting the dang thing in! hey the two bolts in the middle under the intake manifold are impossible to tighten they are common with the header and manifold but since the header has individual tubes the bolts can not be reached after the manifold is put on...anyone else run into this problem? anyways i just drove around with the header, banks and i have a magnaflow high flow cat and flowmaster and it sounds great as for hp and torque can not really tell yet anyways its a great header but install is a pain

[75SV1]

it better not be the same header i just spent a few bills and about 8 hours getting the dang thing in! hey the two bolts in the middle under the intake manifold are impossible to tighten they are common with the header and manifold but since the header has individual tubes the bolts can not be reached after the manifold is put on...anyone else run into this problem? anyways i just drove around with the header, banks and i have a magnaflow high flow cat and flowmaster and it sounds great as for hp and torque can not really tell yet anyways its a great header but install is a pain
This is a common problem on the 4.0, even the factory header is a pain. You might try some socket head cap screws. I know I have to shorten on on the Clifford set I have. The bend is very tight on one of those bolts.
Tom

[XJING]

I had a Pace Setter with their Armour Coat for about 3 years. It did OK. It was fine when I pulled it off. I have a Clifford Set on it now. The original poster need to see if the smog laws in his state are stricted. There are only a few header sets for the Renix (EGR) setup. Clifford does/did have the boss welded on, but needed the hole drilled through. I have seen a cracked Borla header recently. Pace Setters also have a reputation for cracking. I haven't heard of them having cracking problems in the past year or so. Maybe they improved their quality.
Tom

My nephew works for Borla, and he told me they haven't gotten a return on a header for any jeep product with a crack for as long as he has been there (about three years) some that were obvoiusly in accidents and crushed, but not heat or a vibration related crack. So have the guy send in the one you saw. They have a lifetime replacement warrenty.

[papacan]

Here's a picture of the banks header:
http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c288/jeepinwi/banks_jeep020.jpg

Now here's a picture of an APN header for about $150:
http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c288/jeepinwi/e6_1.jpg
pretty damn similar, aren't they?
where can you get APH HEADERS @ 150.00?

[Gil BullyKatz]

$119 plus $15 shipping...

http://www.autopn.com/store/pc/viewPrd.asp?idcategory=&idproduct=20009

[papacan]

$119 plus $15 shipping...

http://www.autopn.com/store/pc/viewPrd.asp?idcategory=&idproduct=20009
this is typical for me,this header looks good,clean welds,s/s & CHEAP price & YEA,I have a 90', they start at 91', it did get the ol'heart a thump'n! THANKS!

[Gil BullyKatz]

this is typical for me,this header looks good,clean welds,s/s & CHEAP price & YEA,I have a 90', they start at 91', it did get the ol'heart a thump'n! THANKS!

Ummm....

You know it'll still work right?

[75SV1]

this is typical for me,this header looks good,clean welds,s/s & CHEAP price & YEA,I have a 90', they start at 91', it did get the ol'heart a thump'n! THANKS!
You could have a muffler shop weld on a bung or EGR boss. I'll pass along the info on the warranty for the Borla header. It cracked on one of the welds around the collector.
Tom

[sprinkler1228]

Just saw this one also.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/91-99-JEEP-CHEROKEE-4-0L-STAINLESS-HEADER-98-97-96-95_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQcategoryZ33631QQihZ019QQitemZ 290047828736QQrdZ1

[FatXJ]

With any of the headers that you buy you really need to do some porting work on them to make them worthwhile. The welds on the flange tend to obstruct the flow more than they should. An hour of grinding with a dremel took care of my Doug Thorley.

I am on my second Thorley header on my 99 as the first one cracked in 3 places. I bought the ceramic coated one this time to avoid that. I also have a Borla on my 87 with no problems.

[rag]

will either of these:

http://www.cliffordperformance.net/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=CP&Product_Code=1-J&Category_Code=J258

http://www.cliffordperformance.net/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=CP&Product_Code=2-J&Category_Code=J258

fit a 89xj?

[75SV1]

will either of these:


http://www.cliffordperformance.net/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=CP&Product_Code=2-J&Category_Code=J258

fit a 89xj?
The bottom one should. Its listed as 87-2000. The other one is for the 258 (4.2L). Thats the older motor. It should have the EGR bung (boss) too. I heard they updated them. There are two collectors on that one. I think the one I have has one collector that 'Y's out. For the cost of the ceramic coating its a bargin. I think about $175 to $300 is what ceramic coating could cost you.
Tom

[Vince]

My APN header is returning a huge improvement in fuel economy over the stock manifold. I don't think that it is the header alone, but I'm sure that it has 'unlocked' gains that the clean K&N and flowmaster system are contributing together. My motor runs on propane and I normally get 200 miles from a full cylinder. I've clocked up 200 miles today and still got propane in the tank. From the gauge I reckon I will get at least another 20 miles before it is empty.

[Silent]

OK, I am looking into getting the Thorley headers. I can only see that they come in ceramic coating. What and how does that help? Also, the best deal I can find is 487.00 shipped to my door. Anyone know any other place to get a better deal, or is that good enough?

Thanks,
Silent

[jeepinwi]

I would be hard pressed to spend nearly $500 on a header when the $150 APN header will perform just as well. Anyways, the ceramic coating will stay looking like new longer than a painter header.

[75SV1]

OK, I am looking into getting the Thorley headers. I can only see that they come in ceramic coating. What and how does that help? Also, the best deal I can find is 487.00 shipped to my door. Anyone know any other place to get a better deal, or is that good enough?

Thanks,
Silent
The ceramic coating will be rust proof, unless the coating cracks. I have one V-8 set done by Jet Coat. I haven't run the vehicle much, but they look the same as the day I got them back from Jet Coat. I had a set of Pace Setter with their Armour coat. After about 3 years there were some rust lines around some of the edges. Nothing I'd complain about. The other advantage with Ceramic coatings in the heat reduction in underhood temps. From my unscientific experiences, there is a 30-40% heat reduction. This can also meen a bit better performance, as the exhaust gas won't loose heat as fast. Thus it will flow a bit better.
Tom

[Beej]

I would be hard pressed to spend nearly $500 on a header when the $150 APN header will perform just as well. Anyways, the ceramic coating will stay looking like new longer than a painter header. Any evidence to back up this claim?

[TmacisN11]

beej im not sure but they look identical, and i am pretty srue they are the same diamter piping, im planning on spending money on the apn for sure, plus worse came to worse you have a new header anyways so what. Most likely it will sound better and make the jeep run better the way it goes 6 into 2 into 1. If Im worng someone please tell me why I am.

[Beej]

Sorry, rereading my post above really sounds like I was calling him out. That was not my intention. I am interested in the details as a 350 dollar savings seems almost too good to be true if its actually the same thing...

[RickyN29]

So wait, the APN header will fit a 90? It says 91+

I am in desperate need of a header (mine is beyond repair) and I am strapped for cash.

Can anyone confirm beyond a shadow of a doubt, that the APN header WILL fit a 90?

[FatXJ]

So wait, the APN header will fit a 90? It says 91+

I am in desperate need of a header (mine is beyond repair) and I am strapped for cash.

Can anyone confirm beyond a shadow of a doubt, that the APN header WILL fit a 90?

It doesn't have an EGR bung.

[JeepDawg]

Any thoughts on a good header for an 85XJ 2.5l 4cyl?

[scottie1134]

I've had my pace setter header in for about a month. The slip joints never sealed. I don't have an egr but the header has the port and no plug for it. That one bolt was a real bitch to get in. It blew the crappy fiber exhaust/intake gasket right out. Cracking at the rear cylinder port. So basically I paid about $250 for a header. Now I have to buy another header before I die from carbon monoxide that fills my cherokee.
I put the gibson header on my wrangler a long time ago. I sold the jeep before I ever had a problem with it. I am curious about that apn header. But $150 for another month of use does not sound good to me right now. At least that would have been a $100 cheaper then the pace setter.

[RickyN29]

Hum, i have the pacesetter sitting right here. My stocker is cracked, I was going to install this, but I'm not sure. I have read plenty of success stories with the pacesetter though.

[mortskeg]

I just wanted to leave a little feedback regarding my header experience last month. My local autoparts store set me up with a Pacesetter header (approx $220?) which went all the way back to the cat. It looked well made, but I would have needed to find an ERG bunger (mines a '93) and replaced the cat as well or at least found an adapter as my cat is a slip-type joint, and the Pacesetter ended in a triangular mounting flange. I would have needed to get new bolts to go along with all this and IIRC the O2 sensor was in a slightly different spot. Normally I'd be all for rigging up some way of making what I bought work- but all I really needed was the header, and after reading about the APN on here I decided that was the way I wanted to go.

The APN header came really quick- in just a couple days and it was a week before christmas. All the welds looked good as advertised, and the fit was perfect. The hardest part for me was just trying to figure out how to remove the injector wires (I've never had a EFI vehicle:sad1:) and in total it took me 2 evenings to compleate the job; however, I did also replace the lower radiator hose while I was in there and did some cleaning too. Anyhow, I think I read that some people were having fitment problems with one header or another, but the APN went in relatively easy for me.

If I had another XJ with a cracked header, I would get the APN again.:thumbup: $.02

[CartsXJ]

I've had my pace setter header in for about a month. The slip joints never sealed. I don't have an egr but the header has the port and no plug for it. That one bolt was a real bitch to get in. It blew the crappy fiber exhaust/intake gasket right out. Cracking at the rear cylinder port. So basically I paid about $250 for a header. Now I have to buy another header before I die from carbon monoxide that fills my cherokee.
I put the gibson header on my wrangler a long time ago. I sold the jeep before I ever had a problem with it. I am curious about that apn header. But $150 for another month of use does not sound good to me right now. At least that would have been a $100 cheaper then the pace setter.

I had the same issues with my 98 Pacesetter header you had, but I like the long tube design and wasn't going to go back to the shorty header stock, tiny down tube. So what I did was first; weld the EGR bung shut using a cut bolt as the cap; replaced the paper gasket with a metallic reuseable from the autoparts store; welded the header and down tube together at the two slip fits; cut the straight section that goes across under the tranny and inserted a ball flange connector I had the local muffler shop make for me, this allows me to still dissconnect the header from the rest of the system with just two bolts and I don't need to worry about leaks or any gaskets needed at that connection. So after I threw an additional $50 at the header I have exactly what I want and it is like night and day over the banks header and stock downtube I did have.

[gbaronetXCR]

30 k on a pacesetter, decent for the price.. No issues.
middle odf selling the works for a 90...

[Slo-Sho]

Does anybody run the Mike Leach long tube header on their XJ?

[Harlee&Tahoe]

On the pacesetter to get the trouble bolt I used two wrenches strapped together for length and tie wire around the bolt to hold it in place from above while I carefully threaded with the wrench. I also cut my egr tube and used silicone hose to connect. Slip joints still leak though want to have welded but removing header to access oil pan sounds real bad. I also ran into a clearance issue with my front driveline, the double cardan joint hits the down pipe at the collector.( I have no lift, yet) I tossed the silly white wire and used red grey and black soldered, heat shrink, and electrical tape and fastened to upper control arm, I gave enough slack to be tucked between oil pan and bell housing.

[XJiggy]

the APN header is 2.5in diameter correct?

[Panama XJ]

My 2 years old banks cracks, now I'm looking for a replacement, not shure about borla, I bought the borla cat back system and isn't 2.25" (is about 2" and 1.75" at the joints), I found a banks style header but made of 304 SS insted of 409 for $300.00 (is easy to find welding rods for 304 than 409).
http://shopping.jeep4x4center.com/images/header-jeep-manifold.jpg

[XJiggy]

Is the APN header going to bolt up to my stock downpipe or am I going to need to bend a new one and weld on a new flange?

[seanyb505]

Is the APN header going to bolt up to my stock downpipe or am I going to need to bend a new one and weld on a new flange?
It was a direct bolt on for my 97.

[wildcar]

All this talk about banks and pacesetter but what about the edelbrock unit? I just read about it in a new mag I just got. It seems to look really good. I was just wondering if anybody had any experience with it.

[CartsXJ]

All this talk about banks and pacesetter but what about the edelbrock unit? I just read about it in a new mag I just got. It seems to look really good. I was just wondering if anybody had any experience with it.


If you look closely the Banks, Edelbrock, Rigid, APN, etc. are all of the same design, meaning if you bought any two, and put them next to each other your couldn't tell them apart except for maybe material and finish, but that comes down to what you order and how much you want to spend.

[Panama XJ]

OK, I just pullet out my 2 years old Banks header and those are the cracks pictures

http://new.photos.yahoo.com/aballardv (http://new.photos.yahoo.com/aballardv)

[Jeeppowr]

Well, long thread here, so I'm not reading it all : )

Best header I've read about (IMAO) is the Banks Torque Tube. I got one from 4x4groupbuy.com, and it was $100 cheaper (including shipping) than anywhere else I could find; I spent days looking for the best price too.

Construction was amazing, made the factory header look like junk. Weight was heftier, welds were gorgeous, construction was top notch. The exhaust gasket seemed flimsy, and blew out (maybe I should have torqued higher than spec?), and I replaced with a NAPA gasket that was much beefier. Had it ceramic coated from a local speed-shop, mostly just to increase the longevity of the unit (exhaust gasses corrode the metal), but really wanted the thermo insulation w/the intake sitting right on top, as well as the increased exhaust velocities. The guy who did the ceramic said they were the best built headers he had ever seen.

Woudn't even consider going with someone else.

[Jeeppowr]

About the Banks cracking... Ceramic coat them, and replace your motor mounts. Worn motor mounts put additional strain on a exhust as the engine torque twists the exhaust attached to it.

Think they have a lifetime replacement too, if memory serves me right.

[Panama XJ]

I have poly motor mounts.

[Panama XJ]

look the photos and you see corrosion isn't the issue here and yes it looked very pretty when new, the gasket never failed. Just cracke like crap. I'm not looking for bargains I want a header that last for the same time the factory one last (10 years) with good longer tubes.

[Jeeppowr]

Didn't mean to suggest you did something wrong w/ the mounts, just making a random suggestion on something I heard in a different post : )

Hey Panama, just out of curiousity, did you talk to the Banks folks about your problem? You mentioned that your factory header lasted you 10 years, mine only lasted 2 (bad when I purchased the rig w/ 50K); shows how its all a big crapshoot to some extent. I called Banks directly when I was considering their product, and they were very helpful to me.

The specific corrosion I was referring to was internal, caustic gasses oxidize the interior of the exhaust system (rusts from inside out). I know that the ceramic doesn't completely encase the interior of the header, but it does get in there and help. I'm no engineer (at least not till next Winter when I graduate...), but just my experience, and where I placed my faith and cash. Even if the ceramic doesn't increase longevity, it does cool the engine compartment, and reduces the heat convection and radiation to the aluminum intake just inches above the exhaust.

My experience with the Banks Tubes have been superior in all respects to the factory setup. I'm usually not one to jump on the bandwagon, and I don't recall the grade steel used in my Torque Tubes, but the impressed the H-E-double toothpicks outta me.

[Panama XJ]

Banks people told me that they are gonna send me another header, I only have to fax the invoice (if I find it)

[XJsport23]

My Edelbrock's worked great, good install and I noticed the power change and it sounded better even with a stock muffler.

[SKIM]

has any one heard anthing good/bad about the JBA header or has one on their rig?

[Flash]

Never heard of them.........got a link to there sight?

[SKIM]

Can't find it anywhere but is in the january off road adventures no price or web site. 1/2 Mandrel-bent 409 stainless steel,1/2" cnc lasercut flanges, and life time warranty (got it from the mag. p.20). sound good but cant find where to get it or the price.

Edit just found this http://www.jbaheaders.com/rnd.asp :tears: Wish I lived in SD

[Flash]

Can't find it anywhere but is in the january off road adventures no price or web site. 1/2 Mandrel-bent 409 stainless steel,1/2" cnc lasercut flanges, and life time warranty (got it from the mag. p.20). sound good but cant find where to get it or the price.

Edit just found this http://www.jbaheaders.com/rnd.asp :tears: Wish I lived in SD


sounds good but i don't think that they are available for us XJ yet.

would love to be part of there test bed thow.......to fare away.

[workaholic]

So it looks like the only options for the NON HO renix motors would be the pacesetter, clifford and?

Is it actually possible tou use the APN and just have an exhaust shop weld on an EGR bung to install it?

Thanks
Tom

[workaholic]

So it looks like the only options for the NON HO renix motors would be the pacesetter, clifford and?

Is it actually possible tou use the APN and just have an exhaust shop weld on an EGR bung to install it?

Thanks
Tom

Or better yet, has anyone installed a HO header on a renix motor and eliminated the EGR?

Tom

[Flash]

:rolleyes: Or better yet, has anyone installed a HO header on a renix motor and eliminated the EGR?

Tom


On New APN manifold installed. i was told that you cold put the "early" HO intake on with the an APN header and eliminate the EGR all together on a Renix!
the APN don't have a listing for us Renix guys.

[workaholic]

:rolleyes:


On New APN manifold installed. i was told that you cold put the "early" HO intake on with the an APN header and eliminate the EGR all together on a Renix!
the APN don't have a listing for us Renix guys.

no they dont have a listing. From the research I have done an HO manifold wont bolt up due to the differences in the intake ports. But I DO NOT know this for fact so someone correct me if i'm wrong. if its possible to install an HO intake manifold that would be great as my original plan was to just plug the bung on the renix intake and eliminate the EGR that way with a HO header from APN.


Tom

[HaleYes]

I'm confused guys. Are you refering to a "HO" intake manifold as the 1999 + intakes with the more rounded runners, or the ones on the 4.0 HO motors?

I just bolted up my APN to my 96 XJ with no issues at all.

Hale

[Flash]

I'm confused guys. Are you refering to a "HO" intake manifold as the 1999 + intakes with the more rounded runners, or the ones on the 4.0 HO motors?

I just bolted up my APN to my 96 XJ with no issues at all.

Hale

the problem is doing that with a Renix(up to 90 4.0)


flash.

[Flash]

no they dont have a listing. From the research I have done an HO manifold wont bolt up due to the differences in the intake ports. But I DO NOT know this for fact so someone correct me if i'm wrong. if its possible to install an HO intake manifold that would be great as my original plan was to just plug the bung on the renix intake and eliminate the EGR that way with a HO header from APN.


Tom

workaholic, here is some one who has.

http://www.naxja.org/forum/showthread.php?t=904937


Flash

[Bones]

You've head huh? I've read, and did the searches. No biggie get what you want, But if you do do a search, try to find someone who has cracked a borla in a 4.0. Haven't found one yet. Stainless..

I've got a Cracked Borla on my XJ right now. Borla won't stand behind it because I don't have the F'N receipt (though they were nice enough to give me advice on how to have it welded :rolleyes: ). Header is wrapped with DEI's header wrap and has been on the Jeep for about 70K.

Bones :skull1:

[Bones]

My nephew works for Borla, and he told me they haven't gotten a return on a header for any jeep product with a crack for as long as he has been there (about three years) some that were obvoiusly in accidents and crushed, but not heat or a vibration related crack. So have the guy send in the one you saw. They have a lifetime replacement warrenty.

See my last post. Borla would have at least one returned, but after a few years people tend to purge receipts and stuff. It seems to be a convenient way to get out of standing behind their product.

Bones :skull1:

[workaholic]

I've got a Cracked Borla on my XJ right now. Borla won't stand behind it because I don't have the F'N receipt (though they were nice enough to give me advice on how to have it welded :rolleyes: ). Header is wrapped with DEI's header wrap and has been on the Jeep for about 70K.

Bones :skull1:

Well just a heads up in case you replace the header. Dont use header wrap, it promotes cracking and rust.

Tom

[Bones]

Well just a heads up in case you replace the header. Dont use header wrap, it promotes cracking and rust.

Tom

Understood, BUT when I bought the header I chose the Borla because I was told that it would hold up being wrapped and that Borla's Warranty was NOT voided by the covering. Nobody else would warranty their product if it was wrapped...

Bones :skull1:

[Michaelarchangelo]

I don't think the wrap caused the crack. I think the crack develops due to worn out motor mounts.

[HaleYes]

Understood, BUT when I bought the header I chose the Borla because I was told that it would hold up being wrapped and that Borla's Warranty was NOT voided by the covering. Nobody else would warranty their product if it was wrapped...

Bones :skull1:

Might as well of not been covered. Seeing how well that warranty claim is working out for you.
:)

Hale

[Dr. Dyno]

I don't think the wrap caused the crack. I think the crack develops due to worn out motor mounts.

Header wraps CAN cause headers to crack by trapping the heat in the metal and not allowing it to dissipate. It's a simple case of thermal fatigue.

[Bones]

I don't think the wrap caused the crack. I think the crack develops due to worn out motor mounts.

No wear on the motor mounts. Got rid of stock mounts years ago. I run M.O.R.E. bombproof mounts. There is no significant movement at my motor mounts.

Bones :skull1:

[indianaXJ]

Hay Slo-Sho:

I've got the mike leach header with the Kolak performance exaust, it is a very heavy duty header, and a nice package in general. In my openion it's well worth the money.

[etjoyride]

I was wondering. according to the site, the APN header is only good from 91-00. Is there any reason it wouldn't fit an '01 XJ?

[Flash]

I guess that you would have to call them or e-mail them but, i didnt thing there was any diff between 99 and 1/2 to 01 but then again, I"m a Renix guy so what would i now!:laugh3:


Flash.

[etjoyride]

I don't think there is either. guess i'll just email them.

[vetmeister]

Did you find out if the APN header will work on a 01?

[Flash]

x2 and if there is a diff.......what is it!:dunno:

Flash.

[etjoyride]

Oh ya, sorry guys.
I emailed thme and they just said "NO". they didn't even explain what was different :(

[92DripCherokee]

The APN header wont work for 00 or 01. These years have twin 02 sensors, 1 plumbed into each half of the cast iron manifold. The APN header has no bungs at all, works with 91-99 years having a single upstream O2 sensor in the header pipe.

There are other headers for 00-01, but none as cheap as APN.

[Slo-Sho]

Hay Slo-Sho:

I've got the mike leach header with the Kolak performance exaust, it is a very heavy duty header, and a nice package in general. In my openion it's well worth the money.

Thank you for the feedback. I know of a guy that parted out his ZJ and I was on the fence about the purchase of this header b/c of possible fitment issues on the XJ. Glad to know it works.:yelclap:

[Flash]

I thing.......any ways, that the 01-02 have a twin header(3 into one pipe and 3 into a neater ext pipe).......so if they did build one it would have to be a hole diff design to divide the eng in half for the 2 up stream o2 sensors.

Q: did the cylinder head change come, with the twin header change?

Q: are the head ports the same(would match up with ether header) if the o2 sensor was not a problem(like puting it on a renix?)

Flash.

[92DripCherokee]

the exhaust ports for 00-01 head are actually smaller than 91-99, redesigned for lower emissions. The smaller ports constricted exhaust flow to lower NOX emissions, and the intake manifold was redesigned to compensate for the resulting loss of horsepower that came from the smaller exhaust ports..

The APN would bolt on, but the exhaust ports wouldn't match the insides of the header tubes exactly. Not really worth the experiment.

The split exhaust manifold is probably superior to any aftermarket one piece, tri-y header, simply because this split exhaust manifold design does'nt crack.

The irony is, the 00-01 model years split exhaust might BE the reason 0331 heads crack. Both from more uneven heating of the head and the bulkier, heat-trapping intake manifold above it. But that's just my theory...

[Flash]

the exhaust ports for 00-01 head are actually smaller than 91-99, redesigned for lower emissions. The smaller ports constricted exhaust flow to lower NOX emissions, and the intake manifold was redesigned to compensate for the resulting loss of horsepower that came from the smaller exhaust ports..

The APN would bolt on, but the exhaust ports wouldn't match the insides of the header tubes exactly. Not really worth the experiment.

The split exhaust manifold is probably superior to any aftermarket one piece, tri-y header, simply because this split exhaust manifold design does'nt crack.

The irony is, the 00-01 model years split exhaust might BE the reason 0331 heads crack. Both from more uneven heating of the head and the bulkier, heat-trapping intake manifold above it. But that's just my theory...


Thanks for the insight;)

NO th irony is that the head finaly didn't crank but THE HEADS DO!:shocked: :)

[joecool]

From the last couple posts, it sounds like the split exhaust manifold would be the way to go since they don't crack. So out of curiosity would a set of Clifford exhaust headers with a y-pipe be a better setup? Would I have to start worrying about cracked heads, especially if I decided to do a 99+ intake manifold swap at the same time?
http://www.cliffordperformance.net/Merchant2/graphics/00000001/57-2015%20300.jpg

[Flash]

Thanks for the insight;)

NO th irony is that the head finaly didn't crank but THE HEADS DO!:shocked: :)

first of let me rephrase the previous statement:twak: :twak: :twak: :twak:

The irony is that the headER don't crack on the 99.5 up, but the head will :wierd:


I really don't think that the header is what is causing the heads to crack(just a poorly design head around the valves and the coolant that runs under them.

To more directly answer your question,... no the 99 and "up" manifolds (int, or ext,) is not the problem its the head!


Flash.

[Adam96]

So, just to get this straight because I just received my APN yesterday...header wrap is not a good idea? I got some because a friend was bragging it up about how much it will reduce underhood temps yada yada yada. He has it on his suburban and told me that it promotes rust on the header IF you don't coat the entire thing with silicone spray after putting on the wrap. Does this sound right to anybody?

[workaholic]

So, just to get this straight because I just received my APN yesterday...header wrap is not a good idea? I got some because a friend was bragging it up about how much it will reduce underhood temps yada yada yada. He has it on his suburban and told me that it promotes rust on the header IF you don't coat the entire thing with silicone spray after putting on the wrap. Does this sound right to anybody?

Regardless of what you do header wrap will promote rust and cracking. The shear design of it is what does it. It is designed to keep heat inside of the wrap and let it out, thus heat soaking the metal that the header is made of and promoting cracking. Rust is promoted becauase of what the wrap is made of, a porous fabric basically which holds water. If you are looking to reduce under hood temps get it ceramic coated. IMHO that is the only thing that should ever be used to coat/wrap a header of any variety.

Tom

[Flash]

So, just to get this straight because I just received my PAN yesterday...header wrap is not a good idea? I got some because a friend was bragging it up about how much it will reduce under hood temps Ada Ada Ada. He has it on his suburban and told me that it promotes rust on the header IF you don't coat the entire thing with silicone spray after putting on the wrap. Does this sound right to anybody?


I will say this: if you are detriment to use the header rap then get some High temp paint and put many coat on it to seal the header rap from moisture.....now you have to cure the pain by starting it from a minute at a time and then letting it cool(if your putting this on a fresh eng or cam install you CAN NOT DO cure the head) it will require many low heat soaked to keep it from burning the paint off.

"This will not keep a header from cracking." have already rapped my cuda headers and had bought some to do my jeep...........but from every thing that i have read here, i thing i will try something diff with the jeep.

Flash.

[Bones]

My nephew works for Borla, and he told me they haven't gotten a return on a header for any jeep product with a crack for as long as he has been there (about three years) some that were obvoiusly in accidents and crushed, but not heat or a vibration related crack. So have the guy send in the one you saw. They have a lifetime replacement warrenty.

Show him these pictures:

Cracked Borla header pics (http://public.fotki.com/Bones/temp/tech_temp/)

The only reason they aren't getting this one back is I can't find the receipt.

Bones :skull1:

http://images21.fotki.com/v515/photos/4/42106/173922/DSCN2449-vi.jpg (http://public.fotki.com/Bones/temp/tech_temp/dscn2449.html)

[CartsXJ]

Show him these pictures:

Cracked Borla header pics (http://public.fotki.com/Bones/temp/tech_temp/)

The only reason they aren't getting this one back is I can't find the receipt.

Bones :skull1:

http://images21.fotki.com/v515/photos/4/42106/173922/DSCN2449-vi.jpg (http://public.fotki.com/Bones/temp/tech_temp/dscn2449.html)


Well I returned two of them in a single year and finally sold my last "new replacement" that was still in the box and went with a clifford long-tube set-up.

[Weasel]

I've read various parts of this and just got off the phone with the guys at clifford. He didn't seem to think having the ports in different places(H.O. vs Renix) would matter. He said it will work fine.

I do have a concern though about fitting all that pipe down alongside the engine, seem like the stock one gets hit enough as is.

[Flash]

I've read various parts of this and just got off the phone with the guys at clifford. He didn't seem to think having the ports in different places(H.O. vs Renix) would matter. He said it will work fine.

I do have a concern though about fitting all that pipe down alongside the engine, seem like the stock one gets hit enough as is.

???????????????? I think that you need call them back up and ask to speak to some one els!!!!!!!!!!!
Renix and HO are different headers!!!!!!!!!! It may only be the EGR port on it but i know that they are different.


Flash.

[nick88xj]

would any one know if the header that flyngphl showed fit a 88 xj

[Flash]

would any one know if the header that flyngphl showed fit a 88 xj

How about a link!:dunno:

flash

[Weasel]

???????????????? I think that you need call them back up and ask to speak to some one els!!!!!!!!!!!
Renix and HO are different headers!!!!!!!!!! It may only be the EGR port on it but i know that they are different.


Flash.

Well I'm getting conflicting information. Clifford and someone else has said the intake ports were moved NOT the exhaust ports. The other two say that the exhaust ports have been moved.

http://www.naxja.org/forum/showthread.php?t=909244

[Flash]

OK please under stand that i don't have any gospel truth on any of this by in the last 6 months this is what i have got out of it!

Renix has and EGR so you can't us any newer manifold because that don't us and EGR(and extra tube that comes of of one of the header pipes.) and is why most header manufactures say 92+.......this much i know for positive!

I do believe the because of the way the intake manifold is shaped, you would have to do some grinding on the intake and ex/header to make it not bind.I

I do believe that the early HO(92-95) and later HO(96+) can be interchanged between each other,...Exceped that the the 96+ had has a twin exit and all the rest have a 6 tube into 1 !

Comment!!!!!!
Straighten me out were i my be Confused


Flash.

[Onkover]

My 2 years old banks cracks, now I'm looking for a replacement, not shure about borla, I bought the borla cat back system and isn't 2.25" (is about 2" and 1.75" at the joints), I found a banks style header but made of 304 SS insted of 409 for $300.00 (is easy to find welding rods for 304 than 409).
http://shopping.jeep4x4center.com/images/header-jeep-manifold.jpg
Must have got the wrong cat back. I have Barla cat back and mine not only measured properly but bolted up real easy... other then the final bend in the tail pipe. I had to cut the end off and welf on a straight tube to compinsate for my rear drop shackles and a different rear bumper.

[Flash]

Must have got the wrong cat back. I have Barla cat back and mine not only measured properly but bolted up real easy... other then the final bend in the tail pipe. I had to cut the end off and welf on a straight tube to compinsate for my rear drop shackles and a different rear bumper.


APN header Dos any one have a link, did a searh but the links i found were not there any more?:(

[Weasel]

Yes that does sound correct, except some of us don't need ot care about thEGR, otherwisew you can have a bung welded in.

[Flash]

Yes that does sound correct, except some of us don't need ot care about thEGR, otherwisew you can have a bung welded in.


Yes you can have a EGR tube welded in to a newer one,92+, for a renix But, as i under stan it the shape of the renix manifold(intake) is what causes the bind or interference with the header.

the newer header on a renix requires the early HO intake manifold to go with it.......I thing there is more then the EGR to causes problem.

Sorry i keep looking at it from the renix point of view!:looney:

I'm beginning to thing that my split of years(HOs) in not quit accurate either!

cents like 98 there is a spit to or was that when the twin header came out?

Flash.

[Harlee&Tahoe]

Yes you can have a EGR tube welded in to a newer one,92+, for a renix But, as i under stan it the shape of the renix manifold(intake) is what causes the bind or interference with the header.

the newer header on a renix requires the early HO intake manifold to go with it.......I thing there is more then the EGR to causes problem.

Sorry i keep looking at it from the renix point of view!:looney:

I'm beginning to thing that my split of years(HOs) in not quit accurate either!

cents like 98 there is a spit to or was that when the twin header came out?

Flash.

mid 97???
renix 87-90
HO began in 91 right?

[Flash]

mid 97???
renix 87-90
HO began in 91 right?

Yes should have put 91+ for HO

I think that the HOs were 91-95...96 brought somthing new and then 98 there was some kind of change and then late 99 up had the head that cracked and the low pinion dana 30?????

some one els should real post up here cause after 90.... my knolage is not so sharp :variety: :idea:

Flash

[Silent]

I have a question regarding the Doug Thorley headers, or headers in general. I am needing to get a header as my stock one is cracked, and I want a better one. If I get the Doug Thorley, do I need to replace the downpipe? Also, what size pipe do I need. I put a new high flow cat and the Dynomax Super Turbo system on. Basically, everything in front of the cat is stock (down pipe and header). Well, all that typing for this. Do I need to do anything as far as changing size when I get new header? I am not sure what size the collector goes to, and downpipe as well to the cat. I like the dynomax sys. it really helped my jeep breathe more, but I do not know what kind of modding is needed for the replacement of the headers. Please any help would be great.

Sorry, I was long-winded.

Thanks,
Silent

[grimah1w]

Dang, this started as a question regard which header for a 1990 XJ...which is coincidentally my very question! So recommendations please, for a header and associated exhaust pieces parts for a 1990 XJ?

(The search brought me here :) )

[ehall]

I have a question regarding the Doug Thorley headers, or headers in general. I am needing to get a header as my stock one is cracked, and I want a better one. If I get the Doug Thorley, do I need to replace the downpipe?
You do not 'need' to replace the downpipe but you will probably need to modify the existing one.

The Doug Thorley headers have a three-bolt flange, while the stock uses a two-bolt flange. They also include a three-bolt flange for welding to the down-pipe, so you can cut off the stock flange and weld theirs on if the down-pipe is in good condition.

The collector output on the Thorley is 2.5". I believe that the factory down-pipe is 2.5" into the catalytic converter with 2.25" out of the converter--that's what Magnaflow shows for their "factory" converter, but on my beater it is 2" down-pipe and cat although I am pretty sure that was all replaced by the PO. Basically you need to get down there with some calipers and see what you've got if you don't know already.

What I am doing is a 2.25" down-pipe and keeping it that size all the way through the system (more low-end torque is what I want, I'm not running 10k RPM dragster), and using their weldable flange to mate the headers and down-pipe.

[scalper]

its a very good header my brother has one on his 5.0 stroker

[PurpleCherokee]

From the last couple posts, it sounds like the split exhaust manifold would be the way to go since they don't crack. So out of curiosity would a set of Clifford exhaust headers with a y-pipe be a better setup? Would I have to start worrying about cracked heads, especially if I decided to do a 99+ intake manifold swap at the same time?
http://www.cliffordperformance.net/Merchant2/graphics/00000001/57-2015%20300.jpg

Another vote for the Clifford headers. I noticed WAY more power than I ever expected from getting headers. As far as the y-pipe goes it'd simplify the installation greatly but at the expense of a little top end power. I ran duals all the way back w/an x-pipe and it pulls like it does at 3800 all the way up to the redline. I couldn't be happier. The problem is routing the pipes. It's not that hard, just a bit complicated. The exhaust shop I went to installed all the pipes a mufflers and everything for $150... oh, and it'll sound like this (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8-WaRNpxPE8) :firedevil