Adapting D44 outers to D30?

[meatmonkey]

I am looking to build a budget 30 with 297 joints, real wheelbeaings and actual locking hubs. I have access to plenty of tools, and have lots of free time, just not much money.

I have researched putting D44 outers on the D30 housing, but every one I've seen requires locating CJ or Scout inner C's, and the purchase of custom inner axleshafts. I'd like to keep the stock inner axles to save some dough.

Has anyone built a way to attach some D44 inner C's to a non-disconnect high pinion D30 so that the inner shafts can remain stock length?

Does anyone find it feasible to attach D44 inner C's with a short section of their axle tubing, to some sort of sleeve/adapter, to the stock housing and weld it all together with whatever bracing neccessary?

This theoretical setup seems ideal on paper, as it no longer requires the Scout/CJ inners, just a D44 doner axle, and the spacer/adapters could be made to assure that the stock inner shafts could be used.

What sort of WMS-WMS would a frankenstein axle like this have?

This axle will see DD usage with 33's.

Ideally we'd like to use Chevy outers to match the bolt pattern to (of all things) a Toyota rear axle with wheel spacers to replace the junk D35.

Thanks for your time.

[xjbubba]

The ID of the D44 "c's" is too large for the XJ D30 axle tubes. You may find the correct ID tube to fit over the D30 tube, and have the OD turned down to fit the D44 c's. I think finding a CJ D30 would be easier. Take a look at this conversion: http://www.pirate4x4.com/tech/billavista/Hybrid_Axle/HybridAxle.htm

[meatmonkey]

That article is what spawned this idea.

I'd still like feedback on the possibility of making this conversion work with stock inner shafts.

I think that this axle could be built for extremely cheap, even if it did require a lot more time and effort than many consider worthwhile for a junk D30. Heck, custom inner axles would be the most expensive part of this swap.

[TRNDRVR]

For me, what you're trying to do is too much engineering. Just do a HP44 and be done with it.

Or, if you're just looking for locking hubs, do a Warn hub conversion.

My .02

[CRASH]

If you got a 3" tubed Ford D-44 front, then you could sleeve your exisiting D-30 with 3" 1/4" wall and the knuckles would slip right on.

Seems like a ton of work, when you can just buy a nice Warn conversion kit, or build a D-44 out of Waggy that already has the right bolt pattern, etc.

[meatmonkey]

The idea behind this is to build a CHEAP D-30. The Warn conversion kit is several hundred dollers.

I'm rather sure that this can work, now it is time to start scrounging parts.

[RedHeep]

I don't understand why you would want to adapt D44 outers to a D30 if you're still going to end up with a D30 diff?

Is it worth all the money (you mentioned custom shafts) to sleeve and build a D30 so it has bigger ball joints?

[fender]

I think he is looking at it this way - Cost of going to Warn Hubs = $1000+
Cost of a LP Waggy D44, cutting off the C's, sleeving the tubes on the 30 and using the Waggy D44 parts from the C out - probably doable for less than $500 and more options for high steer/hubs/bolt patterns....

Even if you have to go with custom shafts you are probably less than $1000

[XJ_ranger]

Why stop at d44 outers on a d30? Dedenbear makes a kingpin d60 inner knuckle that will slip right on 2.75" tube...

http://www.dedenbear.com/TXToffroad.htm#innerC

Kingpins, huge u-joints, huge clearance from the d30 diff, and a weak ass ring gear to boot! whats not to want? :D

[GSequoia]

I wanna put portal boxes on my D30.

[CRASH]

Why stop at d44 outers on a d30? Dedenbear makes a kingpin d60 inner knuckle that will slip right on 2.75" tube...

http://www.dedenbear.com/TXToffroad.htm#innerC

Kingpins, huge u-joints, huge clearance from the d30 diff, and a weak ass ring gear to boot! whats not to want? :D


Can I get a D-30 ARB broached to 40 spline? If so, count me in. Maybe FishBoy too.

[XJ_ranger]

Can I get a D-30 ARB broached to 40 spline? If so, count me in. Maybe FishBoy too.

can you even get it to 35 spline?

[CRASH]

30, max. 35 spline would be bigger than the carrier bearing race!

[GSequoia]

I've got an idea that goes well with this...

How 'bout taking a 30, boring out the bearing areas to fit D44 bearings, shaving the inside of the case to accept a D44 ring gear, maybe widening it to accept a D44 carrier (haven't measured), then accept a D44 pinion.

It'd be a total sleeper!

[CRASH]

It'd be like a reverse shaved D-44. Awesome.

[Kittrell]

:laugh2:

[Mr.OverKill]

I've got an idea that goes well with this...

How 'bout taking a 30, boring out the bearing areas to fit D44 bearings, shaving the inside of the case to accept a D44 ring gear, maybe widening it to accept a D44 carrier (haven't measured), then accept a D44 pinion.

It'd be a total sleeper!I'LL DO IT!! AND IT WILL BE SOOOOOO AWSOME, I WILL MAKE IT BUDGET BUILT AND BULLET PROOF!! can i borrow a D44 R&P and carrier? some where in the low 5's in ratio please, for fitment of course.

[GSequoia]

To keep your theme you're going to have to use a lot of lead slag filler.

[Mr.OverKill]

To keep your theme you're going to have to use a lot of lead slag filler.i came across some 3 and 1/2 OD steel pipe for the outer sleeve. i will use some 2x4 solid bar stock for the truss and 3/4" plate for the coil buckets and bracketry!! :wierd:

[Lawn Cher']

i came across some 3 and 1/2 OD steel pipe for the outer sleeve. i will use some 2x4 solid bar stock for the truss and 3/4" plate for the coil buckets and bracketry!! :wierd:

I'd love to help you machine all that stuff with only a sawzall, angle grinder and hand drill, but my tendonitis is acting up.

[Mr.OverKill]

I'd love to help you machine all that stuff with only a sawzall, angle grinder and hand drill, but my tendonitis is acting up.no worries, i just got a 6" file and some 80 grit sand paper so it will be a quick fitup this time :laugh3:

[TheManch]

make sure to use your harbor frieght flux core to get all those brackets on.

[Mr.OverKill]

make sure to use your harbor frieght flux core to get all those brackets on.better, i got a butane torch and some flux core solder for the brackets and truss!!





in all reality, it sounds like you are planning a decent mod, the draw back of it is the D30 R&P will be your weak link, why not take a rubi D44 and put some chavy D44 outer knuckles on it? just a thought other than the fact it is a LP D44, might work ok.

heck, i dont know, do what you want and please ignore the flame session. just haveing fun. :laugh:

[TRNDRVR]

why not take a rubi D44 and put some chavy D44 outer knuckles on it? just a thought other than the fact it is a LP D44, might work ok.The problem with this idea is that a Rubi 44 is nothing more than a Dana 30 with a 44 center section, and you can't put 44 outers on 30 inners.


I think! :dunno:

[CRASH]

The problem with this idea is that a Rubi 44 is nothing more than a Dana 30 with a 44 center section, and you can't put 44 outers on 30 inners.


I think! :dunno:


Precisely why the Warn kit makes so much sense. Use WJ knuckles along with the 5.5" Warn kit and you have a stronger outer setup than a 44.

[David Taylor]

anybody know if a dodge half ton 3 bolt unit bearing will work with the wj
knuckle ?

[Root Moose]

Precisely why the Warn kit makes so much sense. Use WJ knuckles along with the 5.5" Warn kit and you have a stronger outer setup than a 44.

I really wish that D-C had made the Rubi D44 high pinion. Combined with the WARN and WJ stuff it would be "good enough" for me.

Who am I kidding? I can live with the HP 30 gearset I have now.

[Root Moose]

anybody know if a dodge half ton 3 bolt unit bearing will work with the wj
knuckle ?
I dunno if this helps, but here is an image of a WJ unibearing. Note that it has been drilled out to 5 on 5.5" (not for usage!). It might give a sense of scale if you have the Dodge unit in hand?

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showpost.php?p=5762700&postcount=100

[David Taylor]

I dunno if this helps, but here is an image of a WJ unibearing. Note that it has been drilled out to 5 on 5.5" (not for usage!). It might give a sense of scale if you have hte Dodge unit in hand?

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showpost.php?p=5762700&postcount=100

It's hard to tell in the pic. What would be cool is a unit bearing that works with the chevy 44 knuckle.

[Root Moose]

It's hard to tell in the pic. What would be cool is a unit bearing that works with the chevy 44 knuckle.
Well, the XJ uni-bearing lines up with the bolts on the WJ knuckle - at least the WARN kit on WJ knuckles implies that. So, they are the same mount pattern but are known to be a different depth to the wheel interface.

To verify the WJ uni on a Chevy flat top knuckle we could get XJ uni and Chev knuckle together.

I have both lying around under my work bench in the shop. I'll see what they look like together this PM if I think of it. Bug me tomorrow via PM if I forget.

[CRASH]

anybody know if a dodge half ton 3 bolt unit bearing will work with the wj
knuckle ?


Dave, have you ever seen a mid 80's Dodge 5 on 4.5 half-ton pickup? They used a unit bearing set up, no selectable hub, and they used standard D-44 innners and flattop knuckles.

[David Taylor]

Dave, have you ever seen a mid 80's Dodge 5 on 4.5 half-ton pickup? They used a unit bearing set up, no selectable hub, and they used standard D-44 innners and flattop knuckles.

No, I never looked. If I could have bought a unit bearing to replace the spindle I would keep the 44.

[CRASH]

The 80's half ton Dodge stuff would work, just need to adapt it to 5.5".

[Paul S]

I don't understand why you'd put 44 outers on a 30, other than to get much better histeer options.

Neither stock 30 nor stock 44 outer junk is going to hold up.

Given aftermarket axles in both, the outer 30 will be stronger than the 44.

+, with the 30 you have the added bonus of simply upgrading to chromo axles & keeping the unit bearings.

Paul

[Paul S]

The 80's half ton Dodge stuff would work, just need to adapt it to 5.5".

Are these 33 spline?

P

[CRASH]

Are these 33 spline?

P


I *think* they are 27 spline. I haven't played with one in ages. The yards are ful of them, though, as they are undesirable to most rednecks.

[Paul S]

I *think* they are 27 spline. I haven't played with one in ages. The yards are ful of them, though, as they are undesirable to most rednecks.

What got me curious is that Spidertrax has 2 options:
A 3 bolt 33 spline Dodge unit bearing, or a 4 bolt 35 spline Ford unit bearing.
While the Dodge unit bearing that I got has the same 4 bolt pattern as the Ford.
Too many options out there...
P

[CRASH]

Isn't there a difference between the Dana Dodge unit bearing and the late model AAM Dodge unit bearing?

The mid-80's junk is totally different, the unit bearings look and function totally differently than XJ/late Dodge/Ford stuff.

[David Taylor]

What got me curious is that Spidertrax has 2 options:
A 3 bolt 33 spline Dodge unit bearing, or a 4 bolt 35 spline Ford unit bearing.
While the Dodge unit bearing that I got has the same 4 bolt pattern as the Ford.
Too many options out there...
P

The rhino guys must have found some knuckle that works. the dodge 3 bolt must work with a stock jeep knuckle. They where having CTM make 33spline
dodge stubs with 44 size u-joint.

[Paul S]

Isn't there a difference between the Dana Dodge unit bearing and the late model AAM Dodge unit bearing?

The mid-80's junk is totally different, the unit bearings look and function totally differently than XJ/late Dodge/Ford stuff.

I have no idea. The only one I've ever seen is the on I bought.
It is only through Spidertrax telling me that they they had a 3 bolt knuckle for the Dodge & a 4 bolt knuckle for the Ford that got me thinking.

P

[CRASH]

Check out Mr. N's pics, there is a Dodge unit bearing knuckle that had 35 spline stubs!

Early to mid 70's junk:

http://77cj.littlekeylime.com/flatop_knucles.html

[CRASH]

FYI, I have trouble keeping up with what the fawk the two of you skinny numbskulls are trying to do half the time.

OK, one of you is still skinny. ;)

[David Taylor]

FYI, I have trouble keeping up with what the fawk the two of you skinny numbskulls are trying to do half the time.

OK, one of you is still skinny. ;)

I keep telling Paul he needs to cut back alittle.

[Paul S]

I keep telling Paul he needs to cut back alittle.

I thought you thought I was sexy just the way I am.

P

[CRASH]

I thought you thought I was sexy just the way I am.

P

Did you guys miss this last week?

Press release:


National Coming Out Day
NCOD logo
October 11

National Coming Out Day is held on October 11th every year to commemorate the first March on Washington by LBGT people. The March took place in October of 1987 and highlighted the lesbigay struggle for acceptance. The first National Coming Out Day was held on October 11, 1988.

The purpose of National Coming Out Day is to promote honesty and openness about being lesbian, gay or bisexual. LAMBDA celebrates this day with activities and resources designed to support coming out. LAMBDA also conducts ongoing projects to help enable our queer brothers and sisters to take their next steps out of the closet.

[Paul S]

Did you guys miss this last week?

Press release:


National Coming Out Day
NCOD logo
October 11

National Coming Out Day is held on October 11th every year to commemorate the first March on Washington by LBGT people. The March took place in October of 1987 and highlighted the lesbigay struggle for acceptance. The first National Coming Out Day was held on October 11, 1988.

The purpose of National Coming Out Day is to promote honesty and openness about being lesbian, gay or bisexual. LAMBDA celebrates this day with activities and resources designed to support coming out. LAMBDA also conducts ongoing projects to help enable our queer brothers and sisters to take their next steps out of the closet.

Damn, missed it. How was it, did you & Loren have a good time?

P

[Lawn Cher']

OK, following along your train of thought Crash, one could conceiveably build a decent D30 replacement by starting with a HP D44 housing, narrowing it to early Bronco dimensions to get off the shelf alloy inner shafts and maintain close to stock track width, and run the 80's Dodge outers with the hi-po u-joint of your choice. The benefits: unit bearings for ease of trail repair, high steer, hi pinion D44 gearset, 5 on 4.5 lug pattern, D44 brakes and BJ's. The only flaw is that I don't know if you can get alloy stubs for the Dodge unit bearings.

This wouldn't be good for you super mammer-jammer hardcore guys, but I think it'd be better than a Rubi, Waggy or EB D44 by itself.

[David Taylor]

Did you guys miss this last week?

Press release:


National Coming Out Day
NCOD logo
October 11

National Coming Out Day is held on October 11th every year to commemorate the first March on Washington by LBGT people. The March took place in October of 1987 and highlighted the lesbigay struggle for acceptance. The first National Coming Out Day was held on October 11, 1988.

The purpose of National Coming Out Day is to promote honesty and openness about being lesbian, gay or bisexual. LAMBDA celebrates this day with activities and resources designed to support coming out. LAMBDA also conducts ongoing projects to help enable our queer brothers and sisters to take their next steps out of the closet.


I was on my way Sunday but took a wrong turn. Wound up here:
http://www.liracon.com/ron/post/jv31.jpg

[CRASH]

OK, following along your train of thought Crash, one could conceiveably build a decent D30 replacement by starting with a HP D44 housing, narrowing it to early Bronco dimensions to get off the shelf alloy inner shafts and maintain close to stock track width, and run the 80's Dodge outers with the hi-po u-joint of your choice. The benefits: unit bearings for ease of trail repair, high steer, hi pinion D44 gearset, 5 on 4.5 lug pattern, D44 brakes and BJ's. The only flaw is that I don't know if you can get alloy stubs for the Dodge unit bearings.

This wouldn't be good for you super mammer-jammer hardcore guys, but I think it'd be better than a Rubi, Waggy or EB D44 by itself.


Yes, and since unit bearing stubs are very short, you could take any old 1.31" diameter 4340 or 4130 blank and have it splined and threaded for UB use.

Seems to me, though, that most guys who are not doing the hardcore stuff WANT selectable hubs. Paul and Dave are not exactly DDing their junk anymore, so selectable hubs are a liability, especially the weak-ass 19 spline junk. The UB's have a smaller scrub radius, are lighter, and the stubs are stronger. This is not a good solution for 99.5% of the peeps on this site, though, including me. As I spend a lot of time in 4wd, at high speeds, and that tends to eat up CTM bushings pretty quick.

[Lawn Cher']

Yes, and since unit bearing stubs are very short, you could take any old 1.31" diameter 4340 or 4130 blank and have it splined and threaded for UB use.

Seems to me, though, that most guys who are not doing the hardcore stuff WANT selectable hubs. Paul and Dave are not exactly DDing their junk anymore, so selectable hubs are a liability, especially the weak-ass 19 spline junk. The UB's have a smaller scrub radius, are lighter, and the stubs are stronger. This is not a good solution for 99.5% of the peeps on this site, though, including me. As I spend a lot of time in 4wd, at high speeds, and that tends to eat up CTM bushings pretty quick.

I'm actually performing this thought exercise for a trail-only TJ buddy of mine who is looking to upgrade from a LP D30... before he puts much money into a HP 30 I'm wondering what a replacement D44 would involve.

Another combination I thought of would be the narrowed HP44 as previously mentioned, but with later model Dodge knuckles and XJ/TJ UB's (assuming they fit) with alloy shafts, yada yada yada.

[Kittrell]

I see this hasn't been mentioned....

http://www.stu-offroad.com/axle/30spline/30spline-1.htm

Alloy USA 30 spline outer kit. Get 30 spline Chromos inside and out, and keep your unit bearing

[David Taylor]

I see this hasn't been mentioned....

http://www.stu-offroad.com/axle/30spline/30spline-1.htm

Alloy USA 30 spline outer kit. Get 30 spline Chromos inside and out, and keep your unit bearing

no good high steer with the stock stuff.

[Kittrell]

no good high steer with the stock stuff.

How high are you looking to go? Tie Rod on a high steer arm high, or just OTK high?

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v690/Jeep1991/d67f26de.jpg

[David Taylor]

How high are you looking to go? Tie Rod on a high steer arm high, or just OTK high?

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v690/Jeep1991/d67f26de.jpg

I already have high steer arms on my 44. The tie rod is on top of those and I still hit it ever time out.

[GSequoia]

You gotta understand DJ. Dave likes to be *REALLY* high.

Dave - I think for you ImagiLinks (TM) are the answer.

[Kittrell]

I already have high steer arms on my 44. The tie rod is on top of those and I still hit it ever time out.

There is no hope for you, stop running into shit...............http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v690/Jeep1991/Smilies/happyfinger.gif

[David Taylor]

There is no hope for you, stop running into shit...............http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v690/Jeep1991/Smilies/happyfinger.gif

What I need to do is get of the damm computer and wheel more.:geek:

[GSequoia]

Hey Dave, better watch out.

You're not htat far away from 600!

[David Taylor]

Hey Dave, better watch out.

You're not htat far away from 600!

I'm just a posting little bitch these days.:compwork:
Not much going on at work.

[Lawn Cher']

I see this hasn't been mentioned....

http://www.stu-offroad.com/axle/30spline/30spline-1.htm

Alloy USA 30 spline outer kit. Get 30 spline Chromos inside and out, and keep your unit bearing

Thanks DJ, that seems like a nice product.

[Root Moose]

If you wanted hubs...

IIRC the WARN hub kit has a special order 30 spline option.

[CRASH]

I don't even think it's special order, it's what comes with standard (5 on 5.5" kit)

http://warn.iwebcat.com/imgVD/WAR/FrontHubConv3.jpg

[Lawn Cher']

Another combination I thought of would be the narrowed HP44 as previously mentioned, but with later model Dodge knuckles and XJ/TJ UB's (assuming they fit) with alloy shafts, yada yada yada.

Looking at the pics in this guy's dodge UB replacement (http://www.pavementsucks.com/tech/hub.php) writeup, they seem awfully similar.

[NXJ]

I give you the solution to (almost) all your troubles:

http://img67.imageshack.us/img67/930/axle0028bwcf9.jpg

Dual-piston calipers, 6-lug rotors, manual Aisin locking hubs, high(er)-steer knuckles, regular bearings/spindle, identical WMS, Korean steel quality (is that a good thing?). These are all assumptions and guesstimates based on very little actual knowledge, I have yet to dig into them for measuring, spline counting, etc. But it looks all good on paper.

I just really hope the knuckle will fit on the stock C (correct spread and ball joint size?), and that the stubs will accept 297-size U-joints. :viking:

[CRASH]

Kim Jong says:

"A nuke in hand is worth 12 million starving in the bush."

http://www.rotten.com/library/bio/dictators/kim-jong-il/kim_jong_il_outside.jpg

[Root Moose]

I give you the solution to (almost) all your troubles:

Dual-piston calipers, 6-lug rotors, manual Aisin locking hubs, high(er)-steer knuckles, regular bearings/spindle, identical WMS, Korean steel quality (is that a good thing?). These are all assumptions and guesstimates based on very little actual knowledge, I have yet to dig into them for measuring, spline counting, etc. But it looks all good on paper.

I just really hope the knuckle will fit on the stock C (correct spread and ball joint size?), and that the stubs will accept 297-size U-joints. :viking:

Ok, I'll bite.

What is it?

[Lawn Cher']

I'm guessing Daihatsu.

[BrettM]

the balljoint spacing and joint size look exactly the same as a D44. The D30 has much more room above the joint.

I'd be interested to know more about the calipers though, it would be interesting if they are reasonably cheap and easy to put on Waggy/Ford 1/2t D44s.

[vetteboy]

the balljoint spacing and joint size look exactly the same as a D44. The D30 has much more room above the joint.

I would think the ball joints being located in the knuckle rather than the inner C might reinforce this idea as well.

[Kittrell]

I give you the solution to (almost) all your troubles:

http://img67.imageshack.us/img67/930/axle0028bwcf9.jpg

Maybe I am missing something here. But what would be the advantage over a regular 44? How does this axle coincide with this thread at all?

[NXJ]

Ssang Yong, guys, Ssang Yong. (More precisely Korando.)

Hardly reasonable or cheap, I don't even think they ever exported Ssang Yong to the States at all? Even though they're from nuclear-free South Korea. :roll:

So, you're saying I have to knock of the inner C's and use those too (are they identical too CJ D30 C’s?)? I guess I have to bring out the measuring tape and do some checking on those axle tubes, then. It seems like I have a factory D44/D30-thing sitting right there, too bad it’s low-pinion and passenger-differentialed.

91, you seem to be missing a lot. The thread starter asked about adapting D44 outers to a D30, and more importantly, he wanted manual hubs, regular wheel bearings and a 6-lug bolt pattern to match his Toyota rear. Don’t read much, do you?

[Kittrell]

91, you seem to be missing a lot. The thread starter asked about adapting D44 outers to a D30, and more importantly, he wanted manual hubs, regular wheel bearings and a 6-lug bolt pattern to match his Toyota rear. Don’t read much, do you?[/COLOR]

Actually I've read every post in this thread. The author and original topic didn't last past page one. The last four pages have followed a different theme. But if you are trying to resurrect the lost cause, go for it. Though I don't see how posting an axle that none of us could aquire, that isn't any kind of an upgrade over using regular 44 parts, is helping anyone........:twak:

[Ludakris]

sorry for the hijack, but...

could I use FF D60 outers on my D35? I need these for the 44's and 10" of lift I plan on installing..

[cracker]

Actually I've read every post in this thread. The author and original topic didn't last past page one. The last four pages have followed a different theme. But if you are trying to resurrect the lost cause, go for it. Though I don't see how posting an axle that none of us could aquire, that isn't any kind of an upgrade over using regular 44 parts, is helping anyone........:twak:

FWIW, not ALL threads will stay on track. A lot of discussions either go down the shitter or open peoples minds to ask new, sometimes unrelated, questions. Not much unlike when speaking with friends and the topic junps around.

[GSequoia]

That's because we all have ADD Avery.

So, I was driving the Chief last night down PCH, man there's a LOT of Land Rover Defender 90's in Malibu.

[XJ_ranger]

So, I was driving the Chief last night down PCH, man there's a LOT of Land Rover Defender 90's in Malibu.

Did you see Mel Gibson?

[NXJ]

Actually I've read every post in this thread. The author and original topic didn't last past page one. The last four pages have followed a different theme. But if you are trying to resurrect the lost cause, go for it. Though I don't see how posting an axle that none of us could aquire, that isn't any kind of an upgrade over using regular 44 parts, is helping anyone........:twak:
Where's the special olympics/internet fighting picture when you need it? :looser: