Adding tube to my cage.

[Jes]

So, I plan on running without doors in the near future so I added these door bars to my cage...
http://www.fototime.com/{E416B7D6-AA9D-4650-B658-23FA1B408D47}/picture.JPG
http://www.fototime.com/{6CF5C42E-9B58-4B10-A9A6-83E69B47DC3C}/picture.JPG
...the span however is rather far. I'm wondering if I should add some tubes going from about center span on the door bars back to the base of the B pillar for some extra support. Thoughts? Would it add any structure or just add weight?

[aparke4]

yeah i see no problem with that might add some extra side protection as well... will the clearance fit with the seats? and i guess the more triangulation the better i do not think adding only a few extra feet of tube is much of a weight concern considering all the tubing you have going on there... looks good

[OT]

Add whatever you can to that bar.
It needs all the lateral support it can get, and adding tube like you described is the only way.


Here is my first run out with my freshly welded in door bar:

http://www.savepic.com/freepicturehosting/is.php?i=497018&img=8487HPIM1152-small..jpg

While you're at it, put some time into it and make it interesting and stronger!

http://www.savepic.com/freepicturehosting/is.php?i=491993&img=HPIM1751-small..jpg

[Weasel]

which way are you trying to brace it? For side impacts it really won't do much good. It would help to keep in from folding upwards, but thats about it. If you want to keep it from folding inwards then your going to need to brace it from the center of the vehicle outwards.

[Lincoln]

which way are you trying to brace it? For side impacts it really won't do much good. It would help to keep in from folding upwards, but thats about it. If you want to keep it from folding inwards then your going to need to brace it from the center of the vehicle outwards.

I know that both OT and Jes put those bars in for hip protection when bumping into rocks. Your legs and upper body will move over but the hip area is contained pretty well.

Look at OT pic again, imagine the bar not there, and then tell me it won't do much good. Sure side bracing will increase the strenth dramatically and be much better but that isn't always the most practical thing to fit. OT's bar bent but it could have turned into a very bad day if it wasn't there.

Look at both of their pics some more. They mounted the bars up high and there isn't any way to do a side brace. If they lowered the bar enough to gain that it exposes the hip area which is what it is there to protect.

On both OT's and Jes's tubes I would add a few down tubes like the lower set on OT's. This doesn't provide the rigidness of cross brace but it does help some.

[Weasel]

On both OT's and Jes's tubes I would add a few down tubes like the lower set on OT's. This doesn't provide the rigidness of cross brace but it does help some.

Well yes adding more steel would help. I guess I was thinking side impacts, not just boulder intrusion. I'm just saying in relation to strength gains vs. weight it depends on which way your worried about the current bar failing. If you just worried about laying over into a rock, slow and easy then you would be concerend with the bar deflection form the side into the hip area. Adding tubing from the center to the b-pillar would addd strength cause your adding more steel but is it efficent? No I don't think so, to brace it efficently from reducing the deflection into the hip area you need to brace it in that direction. I would think you would be able to run a bar directly under the front of the drivers seat and behind to a somewaht close point on the door bar that would provide a much stronger efficent strength ns. weight design, maybe not so much for the slow boulder contact but defiantly for the high impact contact. Also the main door bar could be thicker wall will the inner support bars could be thiner as they don't have to deal with impacts or denting.

I know why the door bars are there, guess I'm just trying to say think of the way you want to keep the bar from delfection and thats the direction the bracing should be.

[OT]

Actually, I will be adding down tubes from the lower bar to the upper (notice the tic marks in the upper bar in the picture above), and it will be adding some lateral support.
The lower is positioned much closer inside than the upper, so the tubes that I add will be providing some side impact protection, albeit, not as well as 90* angles.

http://www.savepic.com/freepicturehosting/is.php?i=492489&img=HPIM1755-small..jpg

You can see, from this angle, the lower tapers in the further back it goes, providing more side support to the more open spans of tube.
The idea is taken from a spiderweb.

Jes, perhaps you should add a lower tube, as well.

[Goatman]

Jes, one tube down in the middle sure wouldn't hurt anything, and it would add enough to make it harder to bend the tube in. However, in your situation with a rock having to reach into tho door opening you're probably fine like it is. You'll get the protection you want, but the bar could get bent a little in exactly the right situation. Adding the down bar would pretty much make it where you never had to worry about bending it.

Looks good.......almost exactly like my hip bar on the new buggy.

[Lincoln]

Well yes adding more steel would help. I guess I was thinking side impacts, not just boulder intrusion. I'm just saying in relation to strength gains vs. weight it depends on which way your worried about the current bar failing. If you just worried about laying over into a rock, slow and easy then you would be concerend with the bar deflection form the side into the hip area. Adding tubing from the center to the b-pillar would addd strength cause your adding more steel but is it efficent? No I don't think so, to brace it efficently from reducing the deflection into the hip area you need to brace it in that direction. I would think you would be able to run a bar directly under the front of the drivers seat and behind to a somewaht close point on the door bar that would provide a much stronger efficent strength ns. weight design, maybe not so much for the slow boulder contact but defiantly for the high impact contact. Also the main door bar could be thicker wall will the inner support bars could be thiner as they don't have to deal with impacts or denting.

I know why the door bars are there, guess I'm just trying to say think of the way you want to keep the bar from delfection and thats the direction the bracing should be.


I understand what you are saying but it just isn't really possible. When you figure out how to run a bar over your lap and still be able to get in and out ok, let me know.

[Jes]

I understand what you are saying but it just isn't really possible. When you figure out how to run a bar over your lap and still be able to get in and out ok, let me know.

I'll do one like a roller coaster, it'll just pivot up out of the way for ingress/egress. :confused1

I think I'll just add a tube diagonally down to the B pillar, or not, I might just be lazy and run it like it is. Heck, it took me three years to finally add the door bars. :D

[Lincoln]

I'll do one like a roller coaster, it'll just pivot up out of the way for ingress/egress. :confused1


I thought of that but something had me a little worried. If I saw a hot chick walking through walmarts parking lot (you know, one with teeth) I might pop a wood and pin myself in the rig. That is an extreme safety hazard.

[Lincoln]

Also I like the idea of the middle back to the lower part of the b-pillar but I think adding one straight down from that intersection would really top it off and look more complete (did I just say that outloud?).

[OT]

It definitely needs something.
When that bent on mine, it twisted the cage at the insertion points of the door bar on the cage.
Plus, if that single bar somehow breaks loose, it then becomes a steel bowstaff to the head.:wierd:

[Jes]

Also I like the idea of the middle back to the lower part of the b-pillar but I think adding one straight down from that intersection would really top it off and look more complete (did I just say that outloud?).

Actually, that would probably work pretty good and the straight down tube would tie into one of the kickers that ties my rockers into the subframe.

[BrettM]

my door bars are outside the body so I feel comfortable without additional support because it would have to bend in a lot to touch me. for yours I would do the bars out of 4130 or 4340 with the one extra brace you mentioned.

every picture I see of you wheeling there is the top of your head peeking out the window, i've wondered how long it would take you to ditch the doors.

[Weasel]

I understand what you are saying but it just isn't really possible. When you figure out how to run a bar over your lap and still be able to get in and out ok, let me know.

Why not something like this? Brace from the red box area to the door tube and a similar tube form the rear fo the seat to the door tube?

I see the lower tubes on OT are in a bit which is better then straight inline with each other. But yes it is a bit of an exercise.

http://i112.photobucket.com/albums/n199/Roktgr/Jeep/is.jpg

[Lincoln]

Why not something like this? Brace from the red box area to the door tube and a similar tube form the rear fo the seat to the door tube?

I see the lower tubes on OT are in a bit which is better then straight inline with each other. But yes it is a bit of an exercise.

http://i112.photobucket.com/albums/n199/Roktgr/Jeep/is.jpg

I see the tube behind the seat doing much of anything because it's so close to the b-pillar and really doesn't add the support where it's needed. Also on the upper tube the angles are still steep down to the floor again not adding much.

I've having a hard time invisioning what you are doing with the red box. Is it in front of the seat to the transmission tunnel? That one may work but it requires some structure to be added on the tunnel right where the Atlas levers come through and it also renders the seat stationary. That's doesn't work very well for a two door. Those seats need to move some.

I could see this as an issue in a roundy roundy car but not in a trail rig. He's not going to be t-boned by another car doing 200 mph. Even then they address this issue completely different and a single tube will do you no good. This tube is there for the sole purpose of saving you a broken pelvis when it's layed over and happens to land on a rock that fits through the door opening. If the tube is low enough to cross brace to the center than it won't work for the intended purpose and leaves the lower body exposed. A good example is your picture on OT's. That lower bar by itself does nothing for hip protection (of very very little), in my view it add to the appearance and front to rear ridgedness but doesn't necissarily protect the occupants. The upper bar is the protection but does not work with the bracing you have drawn and it's the one that needs to be there.

[Phil]

How much weight do you want to add before you decide you'd rather be wheeling than wasting time and money in the garage?

A single tube will bend, but you'll only have to make two cuts to remove it. If you want to be slick, you could get some SCUD-proof PUV tube clamps, cut the door bars, and carry spares so you could swap them out real quick. You gots to have the bling, yo.
http://www.fototime.com/ftweb/bin/ft.dll/standard?pictid={ADC0DEF3-BC28-4FC9-A00A-5834E04834C6}&exp=f&moddt=38618.9886581134&ssdyn=1

[OT]

Actually, that lower bar is only there to provide structure for the rocker.:shhh:

[Weasel]

I've having a hard time invisioning what you are doing with the red box. Is it in front of the seat to the transmission tunnel? That one may work but it requires some structure to be added on the tunnel right where the Atlas levers come through and it also renders the seat stationary. That's doesn't work very well for a two door. Those seats need to move some.

I could see this as an issue in a roundy roundy car but not in a trail rig. He's not going to be t-boned by another car doing 200 mph. The upper bar is the protection but does not work with the bracing you have drawn and it's the one that needs to be there.

Yeah thats what I was thinking. Run the front bar from the outer diagonal to the tranny tunnel area. Yes it would have to be reinforced. As for the rear bar I was thinking of running it from the outer dia, inside to somewhere right behind the tranny tunnel. I didn't notice I ran it to the lower bar. I was thinking the upper one it's up pretty high. And yeah I was thinking more of sudden impact, ie hard rolls, but like you said a single part would be the best for that either(it's not baja ;) ). And yes it would like your seat movement but I don't know how much your seats move in a buggy rig. But I'm done trying to make things complicated.

[lugie]

a bar from the A tt the new door bars horizontal but no too high to be a pain in the neck.

[gorp]

i wish i know how to post pics. why not run some tube doors. it look like you have fab skills. i made some that work well with my exo.

[GSequoia]

i wish i know how to post pics. why not run some tube doors. it look like you have fab skills. i made some that work well with my exo.

No, Jes just bolts stuff on that he buys from JC Whitney.

Oh yeah.

Well designed welded in door bars will always be much stronger than bolted on tube doors with weak latches.

[Jes]

No, Jes just bolts stuff on that he buys from JC Whitney.



You're wrong, I get all my bolt-on mods from Quadratech.

[Lincoln]

You're wrong, I get all my bolt-on mods from Quadratech.

Now that shit is major bling, bling. I just look at the pictures and dream.

[Jeff 98XJ WI]

So, I plan on running without doors in the near future so I added these door bars to my cage...
http://www.fototime.com/{E416B7D6-AA9D-4650-B658-23FA1B408D47}/picture.JPG
http://www.fototime.com/{6CF5C42E-9B58-4B10-A9A6-83E69B47DC3C}/picture.JPG
...the span however is rather far. I'm wondering if I should add some tubes going from about center span on the door bars back to the base of the B pillar for some extra support. Thoughts? Would it add any structure or just add weight?

How about adding the mid bar you mentioned and then adding another one from midway up that bar back behind the seat to the X you've already got. That would add strength to the door opening bars to help them from pushing into the center of the vehicle. You could even put a bend in the support bar going around the back of the seat to make it fit better and provide support further up the middle bar you suggested. Kind of hard to describe, but might be doable and provide quite a bit of added support without adding a lot of weight or complexity. Jeff

[vintagespeed]

It definitely needs something.
When that bent on mine, it twisted the cage at the insertion points of the door bar on the cage.
Plus, if that single bar somehow breaks loose, it then becomes a steel bowstaff to the head.:wierd:

I realize I'm way late on this thread & I didnt read to the end so someone may have already beaten me to the punch.

You run a diagonal from the center (approx) of your door bar down to the base of your B pillar, then run another diagonal from this new brace to your diagonal b-hoop brace behind the seat. The further up the new brace you go, the more good it's going to do in a lateral hit.

That's about the best you can do unless you parabola it over the roof to the other side like a hamster wheel.

edit: somofabitch, my second post on Naxja in 2 years and I get beat out by 2 days. Good job Jeff, glad someone else was thinking. :beer: