Need more axel droop, Flex....

Will these options I get more droop out of my XJ? (see pics) I am UnEmployed right now so cash is problem. I have parts on hand to do a couple things, will they work? This is temporary. When I get a job I will be doing 3.5-4.5 lift, using new springs and arms, drop brackets.
Current 3.5" JY lift. 3.5" fr springs (red), 3.5" rr b-pack+1.5" shackle..
Options:
1. Put Stock shackle back on and run a 2" Block...

2. Remove some of the added leafs in the B-pack and run the block...

Why do you need more droop? It looks fine. And you have the sway bars all disconnected right?

The trick is, what your flexing on isn't totally flat with a bump for one tire, so it doesn't look like you can flex much.

Case and point, my rig 9 months ago with a 3" lift and 31's.


~Scott

The longer shackle ought to be better for flex than the stocker. A block can be good to get lift while using a flatter flexier spring, but if you don't have some means of controlling axle wrap can greatly increase your spring's tendency to wrap up.

Muddy Beast said:

Why do you need more droop? It looks fine. And you have the sway bars all disconnected right?

The trick is, what your flexing on isn't totally flat with a bump for one tire, so it doesn't look like you can flex much.
~Scott

Click to expand...

Want more droop, so wheels stay on the ground more. Not best pic but this is at the verge of lifting the rear. Sway bar is connected in front and removed in rear. I tend to lift the rear tire much more than the front. And I already know I can disconnect to flex in front.

Check your shock lengths, they may be to short and maxing out on droop.

RTI ? - Forums -::- North American XJ Association another example of smaller balanced lift.

93gc40 said:

Want more droop, so wheels stay on the ground more. Not best pic but this is at the verge of lifting the rear. Sway bar is connected in front and removed in rear. I tend to lift the rear tire much more than the front. And I already know I can disconnect to flex in front.

Click to expand...

You pretty much just answered your own question then. If you want more droop, disconnect the front sway bar.

~Scott

Yea ditch the front sway and flex it. See how much your shocks are restricting you. Also check your brake lines and what not so those dont come apart.

Looking at your pics your front can do a lot more work once you disco the front sway.

I would have to say to short of shocks.
Here is mine with 29" tires and 3" lift front rear disconnected

Here it is with 5" lift with 33" tires with it disconnected.

One more thing even with a 3" lift I could make the 29" swampers rub.

Drop brackets,5.5 coils and 11inch shocks with 33s

thanks Builder.
I added a new picture to that thread...
2.5" lift and 33's...


At any rate,
Without spending much money, take a grinder(or possibly a sawzall) to the portion of the shock mount over the lower control arms. Often, the arms will bind on that mount berfore flex is max'd out.

I would keep the longer shackel, and steer clear of a block... a block will not do anything at all for extending droop, as droop is controlled by the sping/shackle/shock, not the lift of a block under the spring.

If new longer shocks are not in the budget;
You can lengthen your front shocks with this type of outfit...
http://www.lunghd.com/Tech_Articles/Suspension_Steering_Axles_and_Brakes/Shock_Stud_Extensions.htm
and you can lengthen your rear shocks with these...
http://www.detoursusa.com/xjstm.php

Supposing you grind the shock mount back (litterally cut a bunch off) and until you find funds for aftermarket control arms and track bar, your front droop will be limited by the stock track bar.

Don't get too carried away with flex/rti... a stable and balanced rig is a good rig, and good rigs get wheeled, and experience will get you further than another inch of droop... everytime...

Good luck.

More ?? Re: Need more axel droop, Flex....

Not concerned with front,swaybar is my limiter there, question is about rearend flex. I need to check the break lines might need to go longer. Shocks are Not maxed out as they are specked to 4-6" lift. I lowered my rig recently by 2" because I didn't want to run the blocks and as a bandaid to fight DW.

I was thinking if I soften the rear springs a bit and out the block back it may flex better, without giving up GC. Shackle option is on the idea that with the shorter shackle I may get more travel, because it would start at a much high angle away from the axle and travel a greater arch.

Make some BPE's for the rear with your rear sway bar mounts, believe me, it'll help! The process is kinda obvious; press out the shocks' upper bar pin, press in the sleeve from the sway bar bushing, mount the sway bar mounts (they come off the leaf spring retainer) using your upper shock bolts, then use the sway bar bushing bolts to mount the shocks! I'll get a picture up if you don't understand.

BPE's or longer shocks in the front is also a good idea.

Oh, dang I didn't see your last post...

A longer/flatter leaf is what you need most. The cheapest solution would be to find a full size dodge van leaf spring, it has the same front-mount-to-center-bolt distance as the XJ, but a longer rear. You would have the same amount of lift, but with a much better shackle angle, and therefore more room to flex, as you suggested by removing some bastard leafs and putting in the block. The longer leaf is much safer though.

Mr_Random said:

Make some BPE's for the rear with your rear sway bar mounts, believe me, it'll help! The process is kinda obvious; press out the shocks' upper bar pin, press in the sleeve from the sway bar bushing, mount the sway bar mounts (they come off the leaf spring retainer) using your upper shock bolts, then use the sway bar bushing bolts to mount the shocks! I'll get a picture up if you don't understand.

BPE's or longer shocks in the front is also a good idea.

Oh, dang I didn't see your last post...

A longer/flatter leaf is what you need most. The cheapest solution would be to find a full size dodge van leaf spring, it has the same front-mount-to-center-bolt distance as the XJ, but a longer rear. You would have the same amount of lift, but with a much better shackle angle, and therefore more room to flex, as you suggested by removing some bastard leafs and putting in the block. The longer leaf is much safer though.

Click to expand...

Thanks, finally a reasonable suggestion.
I have heard of using the sway bar mount as a BPE, a pic would be nice..
I look for some van springs at the JY. I really don't want to use the block, even though I never really push it hard enought to wrap the axel. But with open diffs I like to keep all 4 wheels on the ground.

93gc40 said:

Thanks, finally a reasonable suggestion.
I have heard of using the sway bar mount as a BPE, a pic would be nice..
I look for some van springs at the JY. I really don't want to use the block, even though I never really push it hard enought to wrap the axel. But with open diffs I like to keep all 4 wheels on the ground.

Click to expand...

I'll try to remember the picture tomorrow when I'm working on the jeep.

Good luck on your search, post up your results as you get them!

here is a shot of the swaybar mounts used on a set of MJ rear shocks, which should accomodate around 3-4" of lift in the rear.

Mike H. said:

thanks Builder.
I added a new picture to that thread...
2.5" lift and 33's...

At any rate,
Without spending much money, take a grinder(or possibly a sawzall) to the portion of the shock mount over the lower control arms. Often, the arms will bind on that mount berfore flex is max'd out.

I would keep the longer shackel, and steer clear of a block... a block will not do anything at all for extending droop, as droop is controlled by the sping/shackle/shock, not the lift of a block under the spring.

If new longer shocks are not in the budget;
You can lengthen your front shocks with this type of outfit...
http://www.lunghd.com/Tech_Articles/Suspension_Steering_Axles_and_Brakes/Shock_Stud_Extensions.htm
and you can lengthen your rear shocks with these...
http://www.detoursusa.com/xjstm.php

Supposing you grind the shock mount back (litterally cut a bunch off) and until you find funds for aftermarket control arms and track bar, your front droop will be limited by the stock track bar.

Don't get too carried away with flex/rti... a stable and balanced rig is a good rig, and good rigs get wheeled, and experience will get you further than another inch of droop... everytime...

Good luck.

Click to expand...

You are spot on with everything you said, the only thing you didnt mention was shackle angle, if you don't have a relocation bracket, even your missing out on better ride and more flex in the rear. used dodge main leaf on my 3" lift for a good shackles angle, i assume you have ome leafs.so you need to relocate.

93gc40 said:

Want more droop, so wheels stay on the ground more....... Sway bar is connected in front and removed in rear. I tend to lift the rear tire much more than the front. And I already know I can disconnect to flex in front.

Click to expand...

93gc40 said:

Not concerned with front,swaybar is my limiter there, question is about rearend flex......Shocks are Not maxed out as they are specked to 4-6" lift. I lowered my rig recently by 2".......

I was thinking if I soften the rear springs a bit and out the block back it may flex better, without giving up GC. Shackle option is on the idea that with the shorter shackle I may get more travel, because it would start at a much high angle away from the axle and travel a greater arch.

Click to expand...

93gc40 said:

Thanks, finally a reasonable suggestion.
I have heard of using the sway bar mount as a BPE, a pic would be nice..
I look for some van springs at the JY. I really don't want to use the block, even though I never really push it hard enought to wrap the axel. But with open diffs I like to keep all 4 wheels on the ground.

Click to expand...

OK, time for you to start listening. First off, all of the first comments to you in this thread were good advice. However, the only comment you gave credibility too was the one about homemade BPE's for the rear, which effectively lengthen the rear shocks. However, you had just said that you had shocks for a taller lift and you'd just dropped it 2", so if the shocks are limiting your travel it's because they would already be too long.....making them longer by adding the BPE would be going backwards. So, no offense meant, but you better start listening, or quit posting and just go do your own thing.

First, you NEED to disconnect the front sway bar. We'll all tell you that. We don't want to hear what you think, you already don't know what you're doing. You want more flex, which means more overall flex, so you need to disconnect the sway bar. Then you need to find someplace to flex it so you can get a tire off the ground.....it doesn't matter which one. Look at the shocks at all four corners and see what they're doing, but you need to know the fully extended measurement before you do this so you can tell if they're maxed out. See if any shock is fully compressed or fully extended so you know if a shock is limting the travel. See if you're hitting the bumpstops. Check out if the front LCA is bottoming against the shock/arm mount, and grind some away if needed. make sure all your brake lines are OK, but with what you have they should be fine.

Do NOT go back to the shorter shackle, do NOT weaken the springs and put a block back in. You're trying to get more flex so you can get better performance without any lockers, going to softer rear springs and blocks will just get you a bunch of axle wrap, and since you're unemployed right now you won't be able to afford a new rear pinion yoke and u-joint when the springs wrap so much that the rear yoke binds and breaks.

So, disconnect the sway bar, flex to max, look and see what's hitting, and figure a way to deal with it. And listen. We're all glad to help.

Goatman said:

OK, time for you to start listening. First off, all of the first comments to you in this thread were good advice. However, the only comment you gave credibility too was the one about homemade BPE's for the rear, which effectively lengthen the rear shocks. However, you had just said that you had shocks for a taller lift and you'd just dropped it 2", so if the shocks are limiting your travel it's because they would already be too long.....making them longer by adding the BPE would be going backwards. So, no offense meant, but you better start listening, or quit posting and just go do your own thing.

First, you NEED to disconnect the front sway bar. We'll all tell you that. We don't want to hear what you think, you already don't know what you're doing. You want more flex, which means more overall flex, so you need to disconnect the sway bar. Then you need to find someplace to flex it so you can get a tire off the ground.....it doesn't matter which one. Look at the shocks at all four corners and see what they're doing, but you need to know the fully extended measurement before you do this so you can tell if they're maxed out. See if any shock is fully compressed or fully extended so you know if a shock is limting the travel. See if you're hitting the bumpstops. Check out if the front LCA is bottoming against the shock/arm mount, and grind some away if needed. make sure all your brake lines are OK, but with what you have they should be fine.

Do NOT go back to the shorter shackle, do NOT weaken the springs and put a block back in. You're trying to get more flex so you can get better performance without any lockers, going to softer rear springs and blocks will just get you a bunch of axle wrap, and since you're unemployed right now you won't be able to afford a new rear pinion yoke and u-joint when the springs wrap so much that the rear yoke binds and breaks.

So, disconnect the sway bar, flex to max, look and see what's hitting, and figure a way to deal with it. And listen. We're all glad to help.

Click to expand...

First I was listening. This is why I don't post alot of questions, people tend to get upset when your don't accept there advise for a question you didn't ask. I was just ignoring any suggestions having to do with the front, as it already has disconnects. They were just connected in the pics. Question was mainly theoretical, would it work, not whether it was the best way to go. I KNOW IT ISN'T. I know the cons of blocks, thats why I removed them the day after I bought the rig. I pulled the spacers from the front, to improve CA angles to fight DW.

I think the best solution for now is to find some shackle relocation brackets, or make some. That would move the shackle forward a bit.

Question was for the rear, would softening the springs (remove some leafs from B-pack) or the better shackle angle (from stock shackle), allow for more droop. This would require, re-installing the block to maintain lift, at the risk of wrap. I will not be doing the swaybar mount BPE, as I believe it would be prone to binding, and my shock are plenty long enough. Rear bumps are extended to prevent bottoming.