Outdoor Wood Boilers

[Jeepm@n]

Ok I saved some cash and I'm going to buy an outdoor wood boiler. Anyone have reccomendation's? Don't tell me to go geothermal heat as I've been quoted 11k-16k to only supplement my heat bills. I'd still have to use propane. I'd be heating a 2000 sq ft house with a full basement, and a 32x38 pole barn construction garage, and supplementing my hot water heater. Any brands you prefer? I can get cut split and deliverd a cord of hardwood for $115.00.

[8Mud]

Research the math a little, it is easier to figure in Watts (IMO). I heat about half of your house with a 5 KW oven. Between 3 and 4 cords a winter (average, I have about the same climate as Pennsylvania). Wood has to dry for a year before it burns well. Feeding that sucker is going to be a pain, more wood doesn't make it last much longer it just gets hotter. You might want to consider coal, at least during the night or times you want it to burn a good long time without attention.
I imagine technology makes it easier, mine is primitive, but idiot proof and requires only a twice yearly cleaning, other than the daily ash.
Mine is inside, so the heat that goes up the chimney is also used as part of the heat output.
A cord of wood is equal to around 3.65 cubic meters. A cubic meter is equal to about two barrels of heating oil.
I use both natural gas and wood. The natural gas is on a thermostat and doesn't kick in unless the oven is neglected or supplemental heat is needed.
I've more than halved my heating bills even with the rising price of other fuels (I still use natural gas for the water heater and bathrooms) and am now working on extra insulation for the house.
The guys that sell wood aren't fools, they will peg the price of wood to the price of other fuels. So I wouldn't count on the price of wood remaining stable. Even the price for permits to cut your own fluctuates, with the price of other fuels.
Hardwoods don't really put out anymore heat than other woods, they just burn a little slower. Even coal puts out roughly the same amount of heat (by weight) as wood, but burns slower.

[muddyrocks]

Taylor waterstove. Taylor Manufacturing. All stainless firebox construction and several sizes to choose from.

It isn't cheap but has a solid rep; I have a few friends who run them at home and at the shop and love them.

[browncountyxj]

I heat with wood we paid for our stove in 18 months of lower electric bills. If you do not mind a little hard work you can find wood for free I have not had to buy wood yet . I do not really find it that much of a pain . Different woods do put out different amounts of heat and some burn longer than others you can do a internet search and find the different btu values of different types of wood .I prefer to burn hickery ,oak or black locust

[Jeepm@n]

I have around 5 acres of thick forest and my family has around 200 acres that I could log for free. I'm just a green horn though with a chainsaw and like my arms and legs. I've never seen wood go for more then 125 a cord. Where I live the snow falls and does not even begin to melt till late March early April.

I'm kind of leaning towards central boiler. I've seen around 40 houses with them and most are central boilers. Most people in this area cannot afford them here. Average (two) person income house here is around $42000. I'm nervous about the stainless steel as I've heard about the welds cracking and the amount of heat transfer is less then a good carbon steel. The other reason I'm leaning that way is because Central Boiler has a good rep less then 40 miles away. Thirty miles is where my nearest town with a supermarket is so I live in the middle of nowhere.

[zr2toxj]

When I buy one, it will be a gasification boiler. These Sequoyahs are nice. More money but much more efficent.

My Dad has an outdoor boiler. He does heat his house, garage, wood working shop,& a greenhouse from time to time. But he goes through a lot of wood.

http://www.wdheat.com/Gasification%20E3300.htm


Here's another site for Tarm, which I heard is a good brand. The firebox is smaller though.

http://www.woodboilers.com/wood-boilers.aspx

Good luck!

[HaleYes]

Wood furnaces have become very popular around here. If/When we ever get moved out to the land that we bought, I'd like to have one of these. Hardy is another good brand to take a look at. They are all stainless as well.

[8Mud]

I have around 5 acres of thick forest and my family has around 200 acres that I could log for free. I'm just a green horn though with a chainsaw and like my arms and legs. I've never seen wood go for more then 125 a cord. Where I live the snow falls and does not even begin to melt till late March early April.

I'm kind of leaning towards central boiler. I've seen around 40 houses with them and most are central boilers. Most people in this area cannot afford them here. Average (two) person income house here is around $42000. I'm nervous about the stainless steel as I've heard about the welds cracking and the amount of heat transfer is less then a good carbon steel. The other reason I'm leaning that way is because Central Boiler has a good rep less then 40 miles away. Thirty miles is where my nearest town with a supermarket is so I live in the middle of nowhere.

Stainless transfers better than carbon steel or cast. It is much like copper in it's characteristics.

Most of the accidents with a chain saw are from the wood and not the saw.
Though I did try and cut a finger off in 64, actually shredded it. Butt kicking work and most of the accidents are from fatigue (tired brain) than anything else. I take frequent breaks, hydrate, eat something sweet, sharpen my saw and still turn out as much wood as anybody else and wake up fresh the next day.
I've always worn protective clothing, either leather or lately Kevlar bib overalls, steel capped boots, hardhat and gloves.
If you need any tips for cutting wood or maintaining your saws, I've been at it for nearly 60 years. And still have all my arms, legs and digits (they actually managed to repair the finger, mostly). Though I have come close more than a few times. I teach a wood cutting safety course for beginners a dozen times a year.
To do it right, you need twice as much wood as you are going to need this year. It has to cure for a year (split), Oak can take two years. One reason it is better to cut in the winter (late fall) much of the sap leaves the tree. Fallen timber many years old, that isn't laying on the ground, is often ready to burn, though this is often more dangerous to cut. Fresh falls, where the timber is like a big spring, can kill you.
Cured wood is usually much more expensive than fresh wood.
The Germans have a fairly good system for stacking, that you seldom see in the states. As long a space to stack isn't critical, it works well and cures the wood fast.

[muddyrocks]

I'd think that I'd have heard of weld failure with the stainless firebox... never have. One fella has had the same unit for 17 years... These units fire once a week in the summer and provide hot water all week long. This sounds efficient to me. However, best luck with your choice and be prepared to save money!

On the wood cutting end of the discussion, as 8Mud indicates, it is best to be fully prepared when you go out to begin cutting wood. Fully equipped and instructed. As with any edged tool, never run a dull chain. If possible work with an experienced woodsman first in order to gain experience with the subilties of tree work both standing and downed. Keep the ground where you are working clear and clean.

I worked as a tree topper for a private air strip one summer, scary on windy days.

8Mud, there is an old guy nearby, I'd guess 80 something, that stacks his firewood in a cylindrical column; ground contact on its side and the following on end to heights around 8 to 10 feet I imagine. I'll get pics if I'm able as I've always thought it looked fantastic. Be interesting to see the German method.

[woody]

No input on the boilers but a few tips on personal protective equipment (PPE) :

Wear it, every time! Yeah, it's hot, bulky, confining etc... so is being in a coffin.

Chaps, leather boots, gloves, safety glasses, hard-hat with muffs & shield if felling, muffs & shield if doing ground work...

I have tried the mesh shields & safety glasses by themselves, and usually end up with crap in my eyeballs (annoying and distracting at the least) As a team they work adequately.

Same goes for muffs alone or foam earplugs alone... IMHO inadequate. My two bigger saws and brush-cutting tools have had their OSHA-spec mufflers opened up, so doubling up may help save what's left of my hearing. YMMV especially if you own a corked up OSHA-friendly saw.

As mentioned, dull chains and stuffed air filters make the saw (and sawyer) work harder than they have to. Either learn to hand-file, or keep a stock of fresh chains on hand and inspect/swap out as required. Your woodchips will tell on a dull chain: Bigger chips that look like oatmeal flakes = sharp... Tiny, powdery chips & often smoke = dull... Lots of smoke = super dull or chain on backwards ;) I inspect the chain and air-filter at every refueling break.

On refueling... use high-octane fuel and quality mix oil (not the stuff spec'd for your water-cooled snowmo or boat) I have a use it in 60 days or it goes in the Jeep plan. Fuwels with ethanol degrade pretty bad after 60-90 days. Even with stabilizer in it. Lately I have been dabbling with 100LL airplane fuel. (it's easier to source than race-gas) I don't need the higher octane in it, but 100LL has no BS additives like ethanol, and lasts much longer. I do not reccomend storing equipment fueled up, but 100LL allows it better than pump gas. Also unless your saw is an antique that requires a special mix ratio, stick with good (synthetic like Stihl UltraHP or Husky XP) oil at 50:1

Most saws have a bar/chain oiler that pumps at approx the same rate as the fuel burns. In other words, when the fuel tank gets filled, so does the oil tank. Use good bar oil (waste engine oil is not good bar oil) and if one had a 'tread lightly' requirement (like around your fish pond or stream) they sell eco-friendly veg-oil based bar oil... or swipe some of momma's cooking oil & plead the 5th.

I'll probably have more to add after I find my notes: I posted a long/boring writeup on this topic at another forum.

[RichP]

I've looked at them, not in depth but just casually. My take, a good wood stove, with outside air, in the basement, several advantages, no moving parts, no electrical parts, works in a power failure and is simple to use, once a year chimney cleaning. Gives off plenty of heat and with glass doors makes nice cozy fireplace not to mention you can cook on it in a pinch.
I reduced my electrical bills by over 30% just by replacing my original builders windows with good insulated windows and a 8 foot slider onto my deck. Also by replacing my 20 year old electric hot water heater with a new and bigger one and putting the blanket around it no matter that the manufacturer says you don't need one. New roof and new insulated skylights to replace the plexiglass ones the builder used. I have a heatolator fireplace that we never use except in power failures and actually would like to get it removed unless I can find an outside air kit to install in it.
I have 2 3ft by 6ft single pane windows to do next, they are original and I can feel the cold radiating off them in the winter once the sun goes down.