clutch help

[in4aride]

ok so my work is screwing me outta my days off this week but i guess it works out...



i need to do something with the clutch/flex plate SOON!!!!!

i can get the replacement clutch no problem...its still under warranty...i jsut have to front the money and then get paid back...


but i have NO idea how to fix my issue!!
jeep is shaking.vibrating so bad and engaging so eratically that it is stalling the jeep and its making me crazy....its super hard to drive this thing anywhere....
its been getting worse...
is there a shop to suggest to do this at?

new flexplate or surface old one?...

like i said ...i know NOTHING....and dont want to screwthis up...
thanks guys






work will have to be after the 1st..thats when i get paid and can front the 20 for replacement clutch...thanks

[ChiXJeff]

Not flexplate, but flywheel. Given your description, replace the flywheel, and if you haven't, replace the hydraulics as well.

[Stang5lgt]

Same deal happened to me in a car I had. The clutch disc broke but still worked. Just chattered and was real pain to drive. I replaced the slave and master cylinder before I realized the clutch was the problem.

[in4aride]

im thinkin about gettin a basic/generic clutch kit and flywheel (sorry for wrong term)
and replacing both...might as well do it all while im in tere

[ChiXJeff]

Parts are cheap compared to labor to replace it. I've got a Luk (may be a Luk Gold, I replaced it 6 years ago,) in my 94, no problems. For what a new flywheel goes for, I'm not sure I'd bother getting mine resurfaced anymore.

[in4aride]

ya i was told like 100 for a new one?
i can get parts at cost cuz i work at a shop(tire shop) so the local napa/carquest/auto zone hooks us up
any suggestions on what to get..there is currently a zoom clutch in

[ChiXJeff]

O'Reilly's claims $90, no core. I looked up AutoZone outside of Chicago (where I used to live,) $60, but an $80 core charge.

I suspect the clutch on an XJ is a little overkill. Until you get into strokers & NV4500 tranmissions (or JeepSpeed....) a stock clutch replacement will probably be fine.

<grin> I just spent $1,300 on my CTD's clutch. OTOH, it's also a performance Southbend 13" clutch, claimed for 450hp.

[in4aride]

ha ya i dont need that(yet) im not our for power(YET..again)

i jsut want it to be drivable!!! lol

[Rockken]

Parts are cheap compared to labor to replace it. I've got a Luk (may be a Luk Gold, I replaced it 6 years ago,) in my 94, no problems. For what a new flywheel goes for, I'm not sure I'd bother getting mine resurfaced anymore.

LUK clutches are pretty good OEM replacements. I have one in my truck and it's been working well.

[in4aride]

im just lookin for a simple workin replacement...
its just a daily for now that i get to wheel...
come mid summer it will be only toy at which point the expensive useful options will be reasonable..

[Stang5lgt]

That clutch has lifetime warranty. Just take it back to Autozone. Save some dough for gears and control arms.

[in4aride]

ya i know....just tring to not front 2hundo ...lol...but we will see how it goes...te AZ guys usually take care of me

[Stang5lgt]

Bring it up here and we can pull it and take it to them and get another. The flywheel will be the only question. AZ has it for about 60 bucks like stated before. But you have to ordered it. And there is a 80 dollar core.

[in4aride]

ya im hopin i can talk to guys in woody P...get the parts then come up get it fixed...take my old junk back and get my money back...lol...
we will see how it goes...still got a week to figure it out

[xj-grin]

I've been really happy with my Centerforce II clutches, I've had one in both XJs I've owned and they have never given me any problem (can't say the same for the internal slave on my old 91 - what a POS design) -- if I had a lifetime warranty like you do, though, I'd use it. If you have an internal slave design I would stongly consider converting to the late model external while you were at it, although that may require a different bell housing (I can't remember...)

[ChiXJeff]

The external slave does require a different bellhousing.

Unless I'm mistaken, the big advantage to Centerforce clutches is extra clamping at high RPMs. That may not be an advantage unless you're in JeepSpeed or it's ilk.

[xj-grin]

The external slave does require a different bellhousing.

Unless I'm mistaken, the big advantage to Centerforce clutches is extra clamping at high RPMs. That may not be an advantage unless you're in JeepSpeed or it's ilk.

It's actually extra grip in high-torque applications, including high RPMs, but definately a plus in a jeep (particularly behind my stroker) :cheers:

[Stang5lgt]

The clutch he has is Zoom OEM style. I know I put it in two years ago. But the Jeep went to a first time stick driver. So he might have wore it out. And his Jeep is 95 so it has external. I believe 94 they changed.

[xj-grin]

The clutch he has is Zoom OEM style. I know I put it in two years ago. But the Jeep went to a first time stick driver. So he might have wore it out. And his Jeep is 95 so it has external. I believe 94 they changed.

that's good, that internal POS really blew.

[Stang5lgt]

Yeah I know my XJ has a internal. And it sucks.

[YELLAHEEP]

So..... Is having a fawked up transmission going to be Mike's "thing"? It's like a theme for him.

Change his name from "in4aride" to "in4atransmissionfix"?

:D

[in4aride]

fooker!
leave me be lol

[xj-grin]

So..... Is having a fawked up transmission going to be Mike's "thing"? It's like a theme for him.

Change his name from "in4aride" to "in4atransmissionfix"?

:D

yeah, I don't think that new job he's looking for will be at AAMCO...:gee:

[in4aride]

...oh man....i had it coming...

[Hypoid]

yeah, I don't think that new job he's looking for will be at AAMCO...:gee::nono: Poster child.

Sorry Mike, couldn't resist. :cheers:

[in4aride]

ya i know...i was waiting for when it was my turn hahaha...

[Stang5lgt]

You do know the R is reverse not race right?:D

[in4aride]

i wondered why i kept losin...damn....

[in4aride]

well it got me....
clutch smoothed out for a day or two...got a bit noisier...but smoother....
then today....its gave me the shaft....jeep wont start...cranks...wont start....wont bump nothin....
transmission looks like it has separated from the motor...so who knows what could be wrong now....

[Hypoid]

transmission looks like it has separated from the motor...
That explains a lot! If you have never dropped a tranny and done the clutch, you may want help with this one.

[in4aride]

well stANG and i were gonna do it but now i cant get the jeep to denver !
but my boss and i are gonna look at it tomorrow after work and see what we can figure out...
the manager at AZ is gonna try and get me a free luk for my zoom warranty...but we will see

[in4aride]

and i know the separation would cause a lot of the issues....
but would it contribute to the noise in the bellhouseing?

[Stang5lgt]

Same thing has happened to me twice since I have lifted my Jeep. Get that trans and motor lined back up and bolt them together. My guess is that has been prob all along. When the bolts come loose the the things don't line up like they should and causes your clutch to do strange things. That is why I could not climb moab hill.

[in4aride]

ya first plan tomorrow is to line up/tighten everything....
drive it around(IF it starts)
and if noise/vibes are still there....new cutch/fly wheel

[Stang5lgt]

The noise you are hearing might be your throw out bearing. Hope it did not fall off the throw out bearing shaft.

[in4aride]

it almost sounds like one of those coil things(gee im so dumb about tranny's)
cam loose...it jsut ZZZZZZZIIINGS around in there sometimes...lol

[Stang5lgt]

If it is spinning noise it could be your throw out bearing.

[in4aride]

well when jeep starts it sounds a lil funny sometimes...so i just pump the clutch once...noise goes away....(not in gear)
(IN GEAR...i.e. comin to a stop) the jeep just whines and squeels....really annoying...so i jus throw it out of gear...noise goes away....

[Stang5lgt]

Throw out bearing for sure then.

[in4aride]

just "bad" or off?

[Stang5lgt]

I hope it is just loose. Once you put it back together might tighten it back up and stop the noise. Hopefully it does.

[in4aride]

cool...il let ya know how it goes tomorrow

[Stang5lgt]

K Rich and I will be laying under a pile of PBR cans...

[in4aride]

yuk...beats nati ice...and keystone...damn college party beers

[Stang5lgt]

Nati light rocks!!! 12 pack for less then 4 bucks. LOL!

[ColoradoRaptor]

If you have been in there once already why didn't you replace both bearings????? Any time I go in for anything I replace both pilot and throwout bearings. If I am replacing the clutch I have the flywheel resurfaced( around $20 here )! It just makes scence and gives me piece of mind!! :peace: Oh, and always use loctite!!

[in4aride]

i havent been in the tranny at all yet......?

[YELLAHEEP]

You'll have to forgive 'Raptor..... he only pays half-attention half the time.......:D He's still probably thinking about your automatic transmission issues with your previous rig.

Mike, if your bellhousing was loose to begin with, that's most likely what was causing your initial problems. The fact that you may have driven it so much being so loose would definitely cause some secondary problems/damage.

The "zing" noises, bearing noises and what not could very simply have been the flywheel rubbing against the cover plate and inspection cover that goes between the engine and bellhousing. If the bolts that hold the bellhousing to the motor get loose, there's still 3 bolts that hold the cover plate/inspection cover to the bellhousing..... If the trans and engine become loose, gravity causes the engine and trans to sag down where they meet.... but the cover plate gets drawn backwards as a result - right into the flywheel.

The starter also bolts directly to the bellhousing..... the misalignment when there's a gap between the engine and trans will cause the flywheel to be out of alignment with the bendix drive of the starter and that will cause noises as well.

It's very possible the secondary damage is a worn pilot bearing and possibly the throwout bearing as well - just due to the downward angle caused by the engine and trans separating. If the pilot bearing is the roller style and not the brass bushing style, it'll go bad in a hurry if the input shaft is out of line.

Definitely try tightening up the engine/bellhousing and see if that is the simple fix, but be prepared to have to pull it all apart just to fix the secondary damage to the pilot/throwout bearings at a minimum.

[in4aride]

ok soooo....
was completely missing one bolt...had same bolt on other side loose as hell...
got it replaced/tightened....
and nothing...

now everything is tight...

unplugged/replugged CPS...nothing...

put scanner in back of CPS supposed to get between 5V-9V...only got .7!!!!!!!

what the hell...is it the CPS at the tranny?
the CPU?

[Hypoid]

Sounds like you trashed the CPS. It bolts to the bell housing at the top. My guess is that is got wiped while the bell was loose.


Search CPS replacement, changing it will make you cry.

[in4aride]

why would i cry?

[Hypoid]

Because it is a sunny beach to reach! Mounted to the bell housing on the driver's side, under the manifolds. Getting the old one out is not nearly as frustrating as starting the bolts for the new one...so I'm told. I had both manifolds off when I looked at mine and decided I could do it then.

[in4aride]

oh got ya...



any other inputs as to why no power to CPS..
another note i forgot(didnt know if related to CPS issue)
there is no spark...pulled plug while from the coil...nada

[Hypoid]

No signal from CPS= No spark

[ColoradoRaptor]

i havent been in the tranny at all yet......?

WELL THEN............. It sure sounded like you had been in there!! I do read through some of these post pretty quick BUT half-attention half the time.............. Damn Troy that was a GOOD ONE.... Ha Ha!!! :gee:

[YELLAHEEP]

Mike, it's a possible fix, but not a sure thing........

Disconnect the battery for 30 seconds and then re-connect. The computer may have received some data that has caused it to stop sending voltage to the CPS due to pre-existing conditions that you've now corrected.

Worth a shot..... :dunno:

Also, if you're check engine light isn't turning off after a couple seconds after turning the key to the "run" position, try checking for trouble codes using this method:

You can cause the "CHECK ENGINE" light to blink the error codes.

Without starting the engine, turn the ignition key on, off, on, off, and back to on.

The "CHECK ENGINE" light will flash the first digit, pause and then flash the second digit of any stored error.

Example: one flash and pause and eight flashes = number 18 error code.


Then go here to check the code listing:

http://www.wjjeeps.com/faultcodes.htm

[in4aride]

ok ill have to do te battery thing on monday when i get back up to the shop

[in4aride]

ok so heres what happened...
i was missing one bolt and one was just sittin in there...
this caused huge gap and the weird posture of motor/trans....
this apparently caused something inside to eat the end of the CPS down...intead of being a square end it is a full 45 degree angle(pic soon)
everything got tightened up and a new CPS....

CRANKED first try..smooth and pretty...clutch even feels/sounds smooth as a frikken whistle!!!!!

soooooo stoked!!!!!!
so not having to buy clutch/flywheel means imma get new coils/leafs! WOO HOO!!!!!!

[Stang5lgt]

Didn't I tell you check those bolts week after you got it. When you first told me about it. LOL
This last time it did it to me I used lock tight. So I hope it doesn't happen again.

[in4aride]

http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c330/wangurmom1/033009_10331.jpg
hard to see sorry


right is old left is new

[Stang5lgt]

LOL nice

[in4aride]

ya it was pretty bad...jeep drives SUPER nice!!!!

changin the cps only took about 15 minutes

[in4aride]

ya it was pretty bad...jeep drives SUPER nice!!!!

changin the cps only took about 15 minutes

[Stang5lgt]

They are not hard just a pain to get to .

[Hypoid]

Yeah, how did you do that in 15???

[in4aride]

put it on rack....lifted it up just nough to sit under it.......
got HELLA long extension and wobble socket....put some brake glide in the socket to hold the bolt....put extention on small air ratchet...zing it was off....snapped pic....slid new one in hole...slid my hand up motor side-reached over and slid bolt in, got a couple threads going on each....zing with ratchet and done....i was all nervous but it was cake!

[Hypoid]

No jack stands.
No laying in the dirt.
No insects crawling around in your clothing.
No clumps of grease and dirt falling in your hair and eyes.

You suck!!! :cheers:

I thought your hands looked too clean.

[YELLAHEEP]

I thought your hands looked too clean.


Dood....... You shoulda seen him today when I stopped in to get my tires..... Whadda grease-ball.

:D

[ColoradoRaptor]

Damn Mike............ you are the go to Transmission guy now!! :gee: Should we call ya "in4transmissions" ........ :D

[in4aride]

No jack stands.
No laying in the dirt.
No insects crawling around in your clothing.
No clumps of grease and dirt falling in your hair and eyes.

You suck!!! :cheers:

I thought your hands looked too clean.
snow days are my favorite...the snow has fun habbit of pullin all the dirt off cars and drip all over ya...you get soaked!

[YELLAHEEP]

Damn Mike............ you are the go to Transmission guy now!! :gee: Should we call ya "in4transmissions" ........ :D


LOL 'Raptor!

I kinda beat you to that one already earlier in this thread......... :twak:

http://www.naxja.org/forum/showpost.php?p=244325217&postcount=21