Shock Mounting Questions

[JeepFreak21]

I am about to order some shocks, so I'm looking through TNT's JeepSpeed album for some inspiration on mounts and a question came up...

Which orientation is preferred; with the mounts perpendicular to the axle, or parallel? Here's a couple examples:

Perpendicular:
http://i120.photobucket.com/albums/o182/TNTACR/JeepSpeed/Picture719.jpg

Parallel:
http://i120.photobucket.com/albums/o182/TNTACR/JeepSpeed/Picture731.jpg

And should the upper and lower be the same or different?

Much thanks!
Billy

[Jimbo_1321]

you want them perpendicular so that when the it flexes the bushing is spinning on the bolt instead of getting squished...
otherwise you'll go through bushings super fast

[JeepFreak21]

you want them perpendicular so that when the it flexes the bushing is spinning on the bolt instead of getting squished...
otherwise you'll go through bushings super fast

Ooops, I should have mentioned... I'm leaning toward some shocks with the bling heim joint ends :)

Maybe that's why the JeepSpeed guys seem to be putting them parallel more often? http://www.slicky.net/smilies/dunno.gif

Thanks guys,
Billy

[JeepFreak21]

Ooops, I should have mentioned... I'm leaning toward some shocks with the bling heim joint ends :)

Maybe that's why the JeepSpeed guys seem to be putting them parallel more often? http://www.slicky.net/smilies/dunno.gif

Thanks guys,
Billy

I guess it's probably that, and the fact that their axles are drooping straight down instead of articulating one side at a time.
Billy

[squirrel80]

I'm having the same issue with mounting my new Fox 2.0s. I decided to use this mount from RuffStuff. I will have it on in the next week so I will have pictures. I would rather run them perpendicular to put less stress on the heim.

http://www.ruffstuffspecialties.com/catalog/axle-side-mount-shock-brackets-p-210.html

[crazyjim]

You definitely want to mount perpendicular, the axle doesn't move front to back enough to warrant mounting it the other way. The heim will take up that slack. Even if it's a heim joint you still want to keep the least amount of stress possible on it, and least amount of movement = less wear. The first picture is exactly how mine are:

http://i251.photobucket.com/albums/gg319/digitalc0nvict/Rich/DSCF3238.jpg
http://i251.photobucket.com/albums/gg319/digitalc0nvict/Rich/DSCF3246.jpg


Rich (fordguy) helped me out and fabbed mine up. Also chopped the end of the bracket off to allow more droop without the control arm hitting.

[xjjeeper19]

Mine are mounter just like Jims...

[XJEEPER]

Your first picture is from my rig build, if you're going to run a poly bushing then I'd recommend keeping them in a parallel plane. If you run a heim style bushing, it's not much on an issue.

[MaxxXJ]

that would be decent to setup some shocks like that on my front end... but how do you fix the top mount to make it look like the bottom? have an adaptor kind of like your quick disco's?

[GrimmJeeper]

that would be decent to setup some shocks like that on my front end... but how do you fix the top mount to make it look like the bottom? have an adaptor kind of like your quick disco's?

this:
http://store.jksmfg.com/merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=SHOCKCONV&Store_Code=JKS01&Category_Code=Shock

or this:
http://www.tandjperformance.com/products/barnet/xjsmc.shtml

or some other custom setup you want to come up with, but i bet at least 80% of jeepspeeders are using one of those two setups.

[MaxxXJ]

this:
http://store.jksmfg.com/merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=SHOCKCONV&Store_Code=JKS01&Category_Code=Shock

or this:
http://www.tandjperformance.com/products/barnet/xjsmc.shtml

or some other custom setup you want to come up with, but i bet at least 80% of jeepspeeders are using one of those two setups.

i like the bottom one, but the top ones alot cheaper =) i'd just have to find some way to do my bottom, i still got to get over my fear of cutting stuff off my jeep.

[TNT]

If you are afraid if cutting your Jeep just ask one of the other members. There are a ton of them in your area. I like the bottom style and have some scrap steel I can cut them from. Gring them clean. Then I'll just fire up the welder and burn them in. Total cost about 5.00 for paint and the welding wirer and gasses that get used.

I have always liked XJeepers lower mounts.

[JeepFreak21]

I picked up the JKS conversion for the top this morning, so now I just need to figure out the bottom. I am going to have to get a little more creative with it than XJeeper's setup because the coil bucket hangs too far over the control arm mount. That, and I've got to raise it up about 2" above the control arm bolt.

Anybody have any other pics or ideas?

Thanks!
Billy

[XJ_ranger]

my airshocks would bind under articulation if I had the bolt on the axle running parallel with the axle.

Make the upper mount to whatever is the easiest for you, make the lower perpendicular to the axle.

take a look at Jes' front axle build - his lower shock mounts worked pretty well.

[JeepFreak21]

my airshocks would bind under articulation if I had the bolt on the axle running parallel with the axle.

Make the upper mount to whatever is the easiest for you, make the lower perpendicular to the axle.

take a look at Jes' front axle build - his lower shock mounts worked pretty well.

Here's Jes' (or maybe CRASH's) for reference...
http://www.fototime.com/ftweb/bin/ft.dll/standard?pictid={E9088101-2C69-4A48-B633-B4EA923E0453}&exp=f&moddt=38520.5806918403&ssdyn=1

Unfortunately, it won't work for me because my coil bucket would be hitting the shaft of the shock.

Billy

[Jes]

Here's Jes' (or maybe CRASH's) for reference...

Unfortunately, it won't work for me because my coil bucket would be hitting the shaft of the shock.

Billy

That would be mine.
Just wondering, why is your coil bucket in the way? Your lower link mounts mounted farther in or forward, or your coil buckets mounted farter out or both?
Could you make longer shock tabs so that they're spaced farther out?

[JeepFreak21]

That would be mine.
Just wondering, why is your coil bucket in the way? Your lower link mounts mounted farther in or forward, or your coil buckets mounted farter out or both?
Could you make longer shock tabs so that they're spaced farther out?

I'll get a picture when I get home. The coil bucket is in the way because it's dead center over the axle tube instead of being ahead of it like stock. The control arm bracket is not quite long enough to mount the tabs to. There is plenty of room to mount something similar to the second picture I posted (in the first post), but I've only seen a design like that with a parallel mounting bolt.
Thanks,
Billy

[Jes]

Just for the record, my coil buckets are centered above the axle tube and are about 37.25"s center to center.

[JeepFreak21]

Just for the record, my coil buckets are centered above the axle tube and are about 37.25"s center to center.

Hmmm... well, I have a little more room than I remembered. I moved the axle back a tad.

Here are the pics. These were taken at full bump (both sides at once) and my shocks will be 16" collapsed.

http://i43.tinypic.com/28bekas.jpg

http://i39.tinypic.com/167qwc4.jpg

The tape is not angled like the shock would be (a little at least).

What do you guys think?
Billy

[TNT]

Like this??

http://www.madxj.com/MADXJ/technical/technicalfiles/JAfrontD44arb/images/large/AugFrontD44Update09.jpg

[JeepFreak21]

Like this??
http://www.madxj.com/MADXJ/technical/technicalfiles/JAfrontD44arb/images/large/AugFrontD44Update09.jpg

I was hoping for double sheer, but I'm not sure that that would stick out far enough either. It's a thought though!
Thanks!
Billy

[JeepFreak21]

I guess I could just make something similar to this Ruff Stuff Bracket. (http://www.ruffstuffspecialties.com/catalog/axle-side-mount-shock-brackets-p-210.html)

What are the draw backs to mounting the shock to the control arm?

Thanks,
Billy

[Starboard M]

I had the same problem. I ended up just using a grade 8 bolt and welding it below the coil pad.



I also wanted it double sheer, but it was how the TnT kit originally came, and I dont think I will put enough stress on that bolt to break it.


edit: Nevermind, I see your coil bucket is farther forward. Side note, looks like your trackbar mount might hit your coil. Does it?

[JeepFreak21]

I had the same problem. I ended up just using a grade 8 bolt and welding it below the coil pad.



I also wanted it double sheer, but it was how the TnT kit originally came, and I dont think I will put enough stress on that bolt to break it.


edit: Nevermind, I see your coil bucket is farther forward. Side note, looks like your trackbar mount might hit your coil. Does it?

How far out from the point the bolt is welded does the shock mount though?
Thanks,
Billy

[GrimmJeeper]

What are the draw backs to mounting the shock to the control arm?

Thanks,
Billy
i was wondering this as well, im thinking it would be something similar to mounting limit straps to the actual arm. i think it would increase the load put on the shock. think of holding a hammer horizontal with your hand close to the head, and then again at the end of the handle.

i think you would want the shock as close to the axle as possible, but i could be completely wrong :dunno:


:D

[JeepFreak21]

i was wondering this as well, im thinking it would be something similar to mounting limit straps to the actual arm. i think it would increase the load put on the shock. think of holding a hammer horizontal with your hand close to the head, and then again at the end of the handle.

i think you would want the shock as close to the axle as possible, but i could be completely wrong http://www.slicky.net/smilies/dunno.gif


:D

And if it the shock isn't centered perfectly over the control arm (and even if it is maybe), won't it try to spin the arm, possibly putting stress on the bolt and bushing and stuff? :dunno:
Billy

[Starboard M]

How far out from the point the bolt is welded does the shock mount though?
Thanks,
Billy
1/8'' for a washer.

This is from the T&T site:
http://www.tntcustoms.com/webContent/webImage_133/100_8548.jpg
And if it the shock isn't centered perfectly over the control arm (and even if it is maybe), won't it try to spin the arm, possibly putting stress on the bolt and bushing and stuff? :dunno:
Billy
Even if the shock is centered, since you are using flex joints on both sides of the arm, the arm will flop to one side or another on compression.


There was a thread in the Pirate Desert racing section about that mounting, but I cant find it right now. :dunno:

[JeepFreak21]

Does anybody know the width of the lower heim on a 7100 as if you were looking straight through the mounting hole? I'm going rummaging in the steel remnants tomorrow.
Thanks!
Billy

[xcm]

. http://img407.imageshack.us/img407/7656/rearlinkbodysteering001.th.jpg (http://img407.imageshack.us/my.php?image=rearlinkbodysteering001.jpg)

[JeepFreak21]

Does anybody know the width of the lower heim on a 7100 as if you were looking straight through the mounting hole? I'm going rummaging in the steel remnants tomorrow.
Thanks!
Billy

I called Bilstein on this. Just for future reference, the widest part of the heim is 26mm or 1.023 inches.
Billy

[squirrel80]

I called Bilstein on this. Just for future reference, the widest part of the heim is 26mm or 1.023 inches.
Billy

You will probably still need spacers from that distance. My Fox 2.0s are 1.25" width with the spacers. I am not sure if the Bilstein uses the same heim end.

[JeepFreak21]

After thinking about it, I don't think that guy understood the question. 1" isn't very wide for a heim. I think he was thinking how long the bolt would have to be http://www.slicky.net/smilies/dunno.gif

I think I've got a new idea anyway. I've just gotta make sure I use the right size bolt since I'm running temporary shocks until the 7100s get here.

Thanks for all the advise thus far.
Billy

[Jes]

Billy, if you're looking at a 7100 heim through the bolt hole the body is about 1.25"s wide.

[JeepFreak21]

Billy, if you're looking at a 7100 heim through the bolt hole the body is about 1.25"s wide.

Thanks Jes. Do you recall what the bolt size is?
Billy

[Jes]

1/2"

[JeepFreak21]

1/2"

http://www.slicky.net/smilies/cheers.gif
Thanks!
Billy

[JeepFreak21]

So... after much thought at how to avoid it, I ended up making a single sheer mount. Instead of welding a bolt in place though, I welded a nut. I did this for several reasons: When/if I bend the bolt, it's easily replaced, it doesn't matter what width the shock end is, and if I want to make it double sheer, I should be able to fairly easily (after I know the mounting width).
Hopefully it's alright. http://www.slicky.net/smilies/dunno.gif Here's how it turned out...
http://i43.tinypic.com/33nzx38.jpg
http://i42.tinypic.com/23sivjk.jpg
http://i40.tinypic.com/2w7ffoz.jpg
http://i40.tinypic.com/29qobw4.jpg

Billy

[Gravesdiggerxj]

looks good billy

[whooprunner]

I just read through this thread and I'm questioning all the suggestions to mount perpendicular to the axle. Mounting perpindicular is the right way to go for crawling especially if your supsension is going to be experienceing a lot of side to side articulation type forces on the shock.

I'm assuming that since this question was posted in the JeepSpeed Prerunner section that the intended use of this XJ is for high speed desert type terrain. This terrain exhibits a lot less articulation forces on the suspension and more symmetrical up and down forces that are parallel with the link/control arms pivot. Since most of the articulation type side to side forces are limited by a sway bar and the terrain, most of the shocks pivoting movement will be parallel with where the control arm/ link mounts to the unibody. This is why on most JeepSpeeds have a lower shock mount similar to the first picture that shows parallel to the axle.

If you look at all other high speed desert type vehicles you'll notice the mount is always parallel to the control arm/link's main pivot point. Since an A arm pivots perpendicular to the side of the axle, the shocks is mounted perpendicular as well. Since a rear link of a vehicle pivots parallel to the rear axle, the shock is mounted parallel to the axle. The same goes for XJ's since the control arms pivot parallel to the axle ( for the most part... Yeah the suspension like to swing to the side), the shocks should be mounted parallel as well.

My 2 err... 5 cents worth.

-Randy

[Skullver]

all my shock mounts front and rear are like the second pic(but much uglier:)), parallel to the axle, this is how most of the jeepspeeds I have crawled around under are set up.

Work is looking awesome billy!

[whooprunner]

Whoops I meant to say second pic in the 1st post!

[Larrythedog]

I just read through this thread and I'm questioning all the suggestions to mount perpendicular to the axle. Mounting perpindicular is the right way to go for crawling especially if your supsension is going to be experienceing a lot of side to side articulation type forces on the shock.

I'm assuming that since this question was posted in the JeepSpeed Prerunner section that the intended use of this XJ is for high speed desert type terrain. This terrain exhibits a lot less articulation forces on the suspension and more symmetrical up and down forces that are parallel with the link/control arms pivot. Since most of the articulation type side to side forces are limited by a sway bar and the terrain, most of the shocks pivoting movement will be parallel with where the control arm/ link mounts to the unibody. This is why on most JeepSpeeds have a lower shock mount similar to the first picture that shows parallel to the axle.

If you look at all other high speed desert type vehicles you'll notice the mount is always parallel to the control arm/link's main pivot point. Since an A arm pivots perpendicular to the side of the axle, the shocks is mounted perpendicular as well. Since a rear link of a vehicle pivots parallel to the rear axle, the shock is mounted parallel to the axle. The same goes for XJ's since the control arms pivot parallel to the axle ( for the most part... Yeah the suspension like to swing to the side), the shocks should be mounted parallel as well.

My 2 err... 5 cents worth.

-Randy

well said

[Larrythedog]

http://i722.photobucket.com/albums/ww229/larrythedog2/Picture287.jpg


I haven’t started my build yet but I have done a ton of research on this issue and I can say that all of the completive JeepSpeeds I have looked at are done like this. The top is a T&J or some type of homemade copy. Both top and bottom mount are parallel to the axle.

[JeepFreak21]

well said

Yeah, I probably should have posted this somewhere else, but I figured... it's not quite Ad Fab, but not exactly bolt-on, I'm ordering "race shocks", the JeepSpeed guys know their sh!t, and we have this awesome new forum... http://www.slicky.net/smilies/biggrin.gif

I'm really trying to make this rig dual purpose, so after careful consideration, I think the more versatile way of mounting them is perpendicular to the axle. I see now why the hardcore racers do it the way the do though.

Thanks for the input!
Billy

[Goatman]

As long as there's enough available movement in the rod end, it doesn't matter which way the shock is mounted. Everyone should be checking that there is adequate deflection to not bind the shock mount in any potential position of the axle, and if it doesn't bind then it's OK. Either way of mounting is OK.

I'd be more concerned with the strength of the mount than which way it's positioned.

[JeepFreak21]

I'd be more concerned with the strength of the mount than which way it's positioned.

Yeah, I am definitely concerned about that! I think once I get the new shocks, I'll make my mount double sheer.
Billy