Advice on filling this gap?

[JeepFreak21]

It's 3/8" mild steel and the gap is 3/16" wide. I chamfered both edges on both sides and I'll be using a Millermatic 175 (MIG).

http://i41.tinypic.com/33myioo.jpg

So... one pass per side? Two passes per side? Should I try cut a piece of material to stick in there or just fill it with weld?

Any advice is appreciated!

Thanks,
Billy

[dinorl007]

the hardest part is going to get a bridge between the t wo pieces so u have something to start your weld puddle with, per sonally i would run a bead on both pieces to build it up to help close the gap, i would also tack the loose pieces to a solid piece on metal as it is going to pull, draw real bad, unless u flip back and fort between sides as u weld hth

[8Mud]

Why not do a lap weld with another layer of material? Is clearance a problem?
Tack weld another piece of material (fairly thick sheet steel or thin flat stock) on one side or the other (hammer it straight), then a piece of filler for the middle. You can actually use steel rod for this or a long bolt (built in bezel). Short welds (passes) no more than 3/8"-1/2" at a time. One end, then the other, one side then the other, check for straight (maybe use a vice) let it cool down between passes.
Grind off the backing material and repeat with the other side.
Depending on function, maybe heat it up red, hammer it straight and dump it in a pot of used oil. Or let it lay on the garage floor until cool.
You have to take function into consideration, just how strong does it have to be. If it cracks and fails, will it be catastrophic?
One bad thing about MIG, is the welds are universally fairly hard and when they are harder than the surrounding material, things can stress in strange ways.
My MIG welds rarely (never) fail, if it does crack, it is often where the weld meets the original material, right at the edge. Weld failures are most always from vibration or expansion and contraction. The only exception being is if you dump your work into water when hot, it may crack most anyplace and stresses the work in odd ways.

[Jump This]

You know damn well you should just build another piece.

:D

[XJEEPER]

What's it for?
In the picture, I see one bolt hole, are there other bolt holes on the left side, out of view? If so, how do you plan on maintaing in the tolerances while you weld, because they will likely change as you fill the gap. The practice of bolting something like this to a jig will help maintain proper tolerances, fwiw.

Without any more info, you could run a bead on each side of each piece to narrow the gap.

[JeepFreak21]

You know damn well you should just build another piece.

:D

http://www.slicky.net/smilies/biggrin.gif Build another piece to fill the gap with?
Billy

[JeepFreak21]

What's it for?
In the picture, I see one bolt hole, are there other bolt holes on the left side, out of view? If so, how do you plan on maintaing in the tolerances while you weld, because they will likely change as you fill the gap. The practice of bolting something like this to a jig will help maintain proper tolerances, fwiw.

Without any more info, you could run a bead on each side of each piece to narrow the gap.

It's a caliper bracket. I plan on bolting the one in the picture to one that hasn't been modified through the caliper mounting holes and then either tack welding both sides to something or c-clamping them down.
Thanks,
Billy

[jdxj]

build another one

[JeepFreak21]

Why not do a lap weld with another layer of material? Is clearance a problem?
Tack weld another piece of material (fairly thick sheet steel or thin flat stock) on one side or the other (hammer it straight), then a piece of filler for the middle. You can actually use steel rod for this or a long bolt (built in bezel). Short welds (passes) no more than 3/8"-1/2" at a time. One end, then the other, one side then the other, check for straight (maybe use a vice) let it cool down between passes.
Grind off the backing material and repeat with the other side.
Depending on function, maybe heat it up red, hammer it straight and dump it in a pot of used oil. Or let it lay on the garage floor until cool.
You have to take function into consideration, just how strong does it have to be. If it cracks and fails, will it be catastrophic?
One bad thing about MIG, is the welds are universally fairly hard and when they are harder than the surrounding material, things can stress in strange ways.
My MIG welds rarely (never) fail, if it does crack, it is often where the weld meets the original material, right at the edge. Weld failures are most always from vibration or expansion and contraction. The only exception being is if you dump your work into water when hot, it may crack most anyplace and stresses the work in odd ways.

I don't have much room to overlap material, but maybe temporarily would be good.

This is a caliper bracket, so it needs to be strong, but way the forces will circular around the edge (if you know what I mean), so that works to my advantage.

Should I consider preheating/postheating the weld area?

Thanks for the advice,
Billy

[JeepFreak21]

build another one

Unpossible :)
Billy

[old_man]

An old shade tree mechanic's trick is to lay it on a piece of copper. You can then puddle the weld. The weld won't stick to the copper.

[Jump This]

An old shade tree mechanic's trick is to lay it on a piece of copper. You can then puddle the weld. The weld won't stick to the copper.

I didn't know that.

:clap:

[old_man]

Thats because you young wippersnappers are still wet behind the ears. :laugh:

[Jimbo_1321]

An old shade tree mechanic's trick is to lay it on a piece of copper. You can then puddle the weld. The weld won't stick to the copper.

that's sweet to know!

Billy, I was gonna recommend welding it on top of another plate with a bunch of passes, cleaning between each one really well and then grinding the plate off the back..
kinda a pain, but it works exceptionally well for big gaps like that.

[JeepFreak21]

that's sweet to know!

Billy, I was gonna recommend welding it on top of another plate with a bunch of passes, cleaning between each one really well and then grinding the plate off the back..
kinda a pain, but it works exceptionally well for big gaps like that.

How thick do you think the plate should be if I do it this way?
Thanks,
Billy

[Boostwerks.com]

An old shade tree mechanic's trick is to lay it on a piece of copper. You can then puddle the weld. The weld won't stick to the copper.

Yup. Professional metal fabricators have a tendency to keep a chunk of copper around for this reason. I have a couple. :)

I would use the copper backing plate, or tack a thin strip of plate in the middle of the bevel.

[slcpunk74]

Thats because you young wippersnappers are still wet behind the ears. :laugh:

Thats why us youngins neeed to ask old guys all the questions before they catch an ice drift out to sea :wave1:.
Thats one of many tricks I learned from an "old" guy.

[Phil]

Just run a spool and don't worry about having a caliper on that side, as long as the other side is good.

[MetViper]

Push them closer together....:gee:

lol

[Jimbo_1321]

just do like 1/8th
something you can weld to and get good penetration on the bottom of those two pieces.
and also something else I'd do is when you grind the back plate off go ahead and use your grinder and make a slight groove to get any pits left over and go ahead and refill it.

[XJ_ranger]

Just run a spool and don't worry about having a caliper on that side, as long as the other side is good.

x2 100%:gee:

Aluminum will work as well if that is easier to come by than copper.

Id bolt it in place and burn the fawker in. does this bolt where the spindle bolts on? or is it welded to the axle?

[JeepFreak21]

Just run a spool and don't worry about having a caliper on that side, as long as the other side is good.

If only I didn't have to do the same thing w/ the other side...
:)
Billy

[JeepFreak21]

Id bolt it in place and burn the fawker in. does this bolt where the spindle bolts on? or is it welded to the axle?

It currently bolts on. I'm trying to keep it that way, but welding it on is plan B.
Billy

[Boostwerks.com]

Just run a spool and don't worry about having a caliper on that side, as long as the other side is good.

Exactly. Just mount both calipers on that one side. :farmer:

[Root Moose]

An old shade tree mechanic's trick is to lay it on a piece of copper. You can then puddle the weld. The weld won't stick to the copper.

Up here there is a place called Princess Auto that is kinda like Harbour Freight in the States. They sell a bodyman's clamp with copper on one side just for this purpose.

HF or other places must sell something similar?

[Boostwerks.com]

lol. "Princess Auto"

[Root Moose]

Yeah, weird name for certain.

http://princessauto.com

[JeepFreak21]

I ended up getting a second set of brackets to cut up so that I didn't have the big gap to fill. Dan @ Ruff Stuff gave me a killer deal on some one-offs that couldn't be used on anything.
Thanks for the advice,
Billy

[53guy]

An old shade tree mechanic's trick is to lay it on a piece of copper. You can then puddle the weld. The weld won't stick to the copper.

x2 We have a copper table at work....pretty much a steel welding table lined with 3/8" copper. Its one heavy ass table but it sure is nice not having to put a ground clamp on everything you're welding. We just leave the ground clamped to the table and go at it.

[asp]

so if you had to weld this gap, and weren't able to get a new bracket... would the best way be to lay it on a copper table and use small strip of filler steel? or would you not even need to on a copper table?

[53guy]

so if you had to weld this gap, and weren't able to get a new bracket... would the best way be to lay it on a copper table and use small strip of filler steel? or would you not even need to on a copper table?

Do you have any of the same material laying around? If so, use the same material and fill it a bit. 3/8 rod would work as a filler but you'll obviously need to extend the chamfer a bit. Yup, clamp both sides to a copper sheet or table (you can use aluminum, but I don't really like to, I've never had good luck with it compared to copper) use some filler metal and go to town. Grind that side flat and flip it over, clamp it, and weld the other side if you have any air pockets or gaps. Can you just clamp them to the table and just drag the puddle across? Yes, but that's kinda shady if you ask me...but at the same time, I'm just a shade-tree welder with no real training to speak of.

[asp]

hm good to know. i don't actually have to do this, but i'm in the process of teaching myself to weld and the more info i come across, the better.

(i have a lincoln sp135 plus and have it set up for gas)