• NAXJA is having its 18th annual March Membership Drive!!!
    Everyone who joins or renews during March will be entered into a drawing!
    More Information - Join/Renew
  • Welcome to the new NAXJA Forum! If your password does not work, please use "Forgot your password?" link on the log-in page. Please feel free to reach out to [email protected] if we can provide any assistance.

Control arm diagnosis

duke000088

NAXJA Forum User
Location
Worcester MA
Hi all - I'm trying to trace a moderate case of loose steering. Feels floaty especially at highway speed... no wobbles but a slight case of wander. Last year I tracked down similar symptoms to BAD ball joints. Replaced and solved.

I have checked the ball joints again (good). Track bar seems good (axle end, bracket joint, and bracket itself all tight). All tie rod ends seem tight. Drag link seems tight.

I'm focusing on my original stock control arms. I can see a bit (1/4") of rubber bushing on each side... appears moderately cracked. I noticed last night I can pry the joint between the lower or upper arms and mounting with a small flat-head screwdriver. Very light pressure (wrist) got pretty good deflection out of the joint. The bushings seemed kind of Jello-O ish. But I don't know... they're rubber... they're supposed to be flexible. Then again, my handling feels a little Jello-Oish too.

I also have about 1/8 of a turn of play between my steering shaft and steering box (original; stock) with no pitman arm engagement. However, I did this test with the jeep NOT running... I've since read the engine should be at idle (makes sense) when checking this. Will do tonight.

Normally I would swap out the control arms (upper and lower) with QTec replacements (fairly cost-effective replacement). But I've been eyeing threads similar to this:
http://www.naxja.org/forum/showthread.php?t=981966

... and planning for the future I would like to IMPROVE rather than just REPLACE. New adjustables are not out of the question...
 
Duke do you have a lift? Have you ever replaced any of your steering arm parts? what about your anti-roll/sway bar? Is it still connected how are the bushings on those parts? That will make the front axle drift, more noticable on a lifted rig. Also what is the age of your rig? Replacing the bushings is a good idea however you if you don't need to do it then you shouldn't just throw money at it. So you are not experiencing any death wobble, could be soon if left unfixed. How were your wheel bearings? Those would cause more issues as well but you didn't really describe that kinda a problem (when in the air how do the wheels move in out and side to side shaking kinda like how you test ball joints only not up down). And finally the joints on the steering, I would pop them out and check them to see how tight they are, or you can wiggle them and push them up and down with your axle on stands to feel for slop.
 
What is your caster? The closer to 7 1/2 positive the better the "feel".
 
Duke do you have a lift? Have you ever replaced any of your steering arm parts? what about your anti-roll/sway bar? Is it still connected how are the bushings on those parts? That will make the front axle drift, more noticable on a lifted rig. Also what is the age of your rig? Replacing the bushings is a good idea however you if you don't need to do it then you shouldn't just throw money at it. So you are not experiencing any death wobble, could be soon if left unfixed. How were your wheel bearings? Those would cause more issues as well but you didn't really describe that kinda a problem (when in the air how do the wheels move in out and side to side shaking kinda like how you test ball joints only not up down). And finally the joints on the steering, I would pop them out and check them to see how tight they are, or you can wiggle them and push them up and down with your axle on stands to feel for slop.

What is your caster? The closer to 7 1/2 positive the better the "feel".

1999. No lift. Stock suspension all around. All the steering parts are original. But all the steering appears to check up tight... up on jack stands and on pavement I've checked for play while someone wiggles the wheel and I've given all the joints a good workout with a pry bar. They seem good.
Axle U-joints and wheel bearings are also new and do not appear to have play (checked). Front sway bar is in place with new-ish bushings on the frame and links. I did note one of the frame-sway bar bushings was either worn or not seated well... the bar appears to just be touching the metal bushing retainer. I did not think it was significant enough to be the culprit (been wrong before though...). Sway bar links are tight and bushings are in fair shape.

Caster... I have not checked. I'm honestly not even sure how to (accurately). I'll review my FSM. I can't imagine it would be off since everything on my Jeep is stock. Worth a double check though.

I was just surprised to see and feel how easily the upper and lower control arms could be deflected with a small screwdriver. I was sort of under the impression that bad bushings got HARD over time.
 
Well yeah your bushings should still be good, have you tried to loosen the bolts and re toque them down? you might have a nut that has backed off some. You have stock Caster so that is right out unless you have the adjustable ball joints. BTW what type of ball joints did you put in and how many miles have you put on them as well as how hard have you been wheeling? There are several grades of ball joints so money is usually directly related to quality there. If you think that your control arm bushings are the culprit then go after them. OEM rubbers will give you the best ride quality vice poly which will last longer.
 
Thanks for the input - I can definitely retorque the bolts... worst case I can always pull one arm and evaluate it.

I installed Moog ball joints (non-adjustable; RockAuto). I installed them myself and it was my first big job on the XJ... quite a learning experience. There is always a chance something didn't go right during installation but overall the Jeep felt great for about 10 months after install. Probably have put 10K miles and it's been all pavement except for one trip to Rausch Creek. Although "pavement" up around my parts is frozen-heaven-pothole-hell. Some of our city roads I think seriuosly qualify for "unmaintained" status. I'll be doing a much more thorough work-out of the ball joints with a big pry bar later just to double check them.

Here's my latest thought: If I do end up swapping out control arms, has anyone had any recent good experiences with Rusty's adjustables? Yeah, I know... but they do have the rubber bushings and "appear" to be right up my alley.
 
If you're not going for a lift in the future, it seems like there is no point in upgrading the control arms. Some people have posted that beefed up control arms have lead to failure of the chassis mounts. With adjustable arms, you would need to worry about your castor. I'd just replace the bushings (if you want to go through that) or replace with new stock arms. I think Rock Auto carries them pretty cheap.
 
I've got a 1997 that was stock & sagging when I got it a year ago. I put new stock springs on it and a 2" budget boost from here

http://www.rocky-road.com/xjbudget.html (2" complete budget lift for $139).

While I was working the jeep I also put new control arms (upper & lower, with new bushings on the axle end of the uppers), and replaced the lowers with these ones to clear 31's.

http://rustysoffroad.com/mm5/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Product_Code=RC-CAC1&Category_Code=ARMS

New stock shocks completed the suspension work, the jeep rides nice on 31's and sits like it should. The replacement springs were from Crown, I don't have a whole lot of cash in the upgrades so when I do a respring and go to 4" of lift (when my tires wear out, probably in two more years) I won't sweat it.

About a month ago I had a lot of float in the steering on the highway (felt like wind gusts) and there was a clunking in the front end when turning into a parking space. Replacement stock track bar from NAPA was about $65, fixed it in a hurry.

Mark
 
All good points above. If the track bar is loose or bad your front sure could wander, but I would think you would have noticed it, but sure worth a look.
 
I'm still working on this...

Last night I had a chance to evaluate the steering shaft and steering gear input with the engine at idle. There is perhaps 1/16th of a turn in the shaft before the gear/pump hisses and the pitman begins to budge. Very easy to turn by hand. There does not appear to be any play in the pitman arm itself.

I had my gf rock the wheel while I evaluated the steering linkage for play... From the pitman on down it seems tight. The joints aren't new but they seem to be holding up OK.

Steering damper shows signs of mild leaking but from what I read here the damper is 99.99% of the time NOT a major factor.

The steering gear had moderate dark seepage spots on the shaft input and the "top" cover part. I cleaned them up good so I can evaluate if the gear is really leaking. Will check tonight for new seepage.

I hauled on the trackbar and trackbar mount with a prybar... could not budge it. No popping sounds during driving ever. The only exception: Every morning when I sit in the Jeep I hear one single *crack/pop* from the driver's side wheel well... possibly even back up at the lower control arm mount (maybe). I'm NOT a big dude... and it only does it once per morning.

As I said before, I'd throw on Qtec uppers and lowers without a second thought except that (like everybody else) I DO plan on a 2-3" lift in the spring... got my pennies saved already... so adjustables or upgrades are probably worth considering.
 
bump for some more opinions?
 
Upper control arm bushings on the axle side could cause it also. They don't get changed with the arms and could be soft. I'm having the same prob now, they feel a little soft along with minor play on lower ball joint on one side. It's driving me crazy. Ordered moog lowers and sway bar bushing, when I change the bushings on the axle.
 
First thing to look at with any steering issues is the tires. Inspect them for uneven wear, pressure, cupping etc. Then move on to more complicated steering parts. I would suggest, swapping the frt tires to the rear, and going for a drive.
 
Upper control arm bushings on the axle side could cause it also. They don't get changed with the arms and could be soft. I'm having the same prob now, they feel a little soft along with minor play on lower ball joint on one side. It's driving me crazy. Ordered moog lowers and sway bar bushing, when I change the bushings on the axle.

UCA bushings are on order as we speak. When pried, they feel very soft. I'm going for after-market lowers, OEM uppers (Quadratech) and new OEM axle side UCA bushings.

I also found some minor play in the TRE at the drag link to pitman arm. Not real loose, but I could pry the joint apart with a prybar. So I ordered up a new drag link and even went with the V8 ZJ tie rod setup. Always wanted to do that mod... might as well give it a shot.

First thing to look at with any steering issues is the tires. Inspect them for uneven wear, pressure, cupping etc. Then move on to more complicated steering parts. I would suggest, swapping the frt tires to the rear, and going for a drive.

Tires are brand new 30x.9.5 Bridgestone Dueler Revos. These symptoms were present with my old tires (well worn Dayton Timberline ATs; also 30") and did not change at all with the new tires (love the Revo's though!)

I also took advantage of JCR's 15% sale and got some new rock rails - :party: Those will do the trick!
 
Duke, did you ever get your problem fixed? What did you end up finding?
 
had an intermittent death wobble on mine for a while. same thing on the bushings, looked ok and were soft when pried on. replaced with arms that had poly bushings and made a huge difference.

zedpapa
 
Back
Top