The Brits On American Gun Ownership

[Jester99]

It's not what you think. This is probably one of the most important videos I have ever watched, especially the ending. What is happening in this video is not far off from happening here in America I'm afraid. Please take the time to watch the video. We should be in the streets doing what they are doing now!!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yTq2NEUlhDE

[Ralph]

If you want to support gun rights in this country, join the NRA.

[CherBear]

Amen, Hopefully this kind of thing never happens in the US

[CherBear]

Hopefully that wont ever happen to the US. I think we have enough hillbillies to fend off the liberals for a while.:farmer:
This is what you get for drinking tea...:moon:

[FlexdXJ]

That is just outright stupid! Its hard enough for them to be without handguns. It just stupid that they want to ban hunting. That is one of the dumbest things i have ever heard. :dunno:

[WB9YZU]

Nice video.

"The Government can not control the criminals, so they control the law abiding"

Yup, that just about covers it.

[Ghost]

Nice video.

"The Government can not control the criminals, so they control the law abiding"

Yup, that just about covers it.

Agreed.

[90Blue_XJ]

We need to organize a march similar to that Englih one. Obama will be looking to take your guns before his term is over.

[mrrbby]

If you want to support gun rights in this country, join the NRA.

+1

Fight for your rights while you still have them.

[kdailey4315]

I read that violent crimes rose 104% after England ban guns. It's really cheesy but it is so true that if you outlaw guns only outlaws will have guns.

[Rokee44]

lol look at the swiss. practically every household has a gun of some kind in it.. yet no gun violence... haha armed robber shows up with a handgun theyd probably just be like, ok hold on a sec ill just grab my issued M57 and we'll see how this ends. it helps that everyone is part of the militia i spose... if only it could work like that over here...

[Jester99]

If you want to support gun rights in this country, join the NRA.

Believe me, I'm working on it.

[RichP]

Actually the NRA kind of got luke warm, they let that guy in Wisconsin hang out to dry when his AR15 misfired and they charged him with possession of a machine gun. GOA is providing this guys lawyers, NRA choked and stayed away.

One of the reasons I keep m NRA membership by the year, when they pull crap I don't like I don't renew till I see some changes.

[8Mud]

A couple of weeks ago, just a few villages over from mine, a 60 year old hunter shot a robber in the leg. He went outside to investigate a noise and one of the robbers tried to hit him in the head with an iron bar. The robber picked on the wrong old man and got shot.
He wasn't charged and if you know Germany (much like England in it's views) this is really unusual.
Public opinion is slowly swinging back the other direction, people are getting tired of being victims.

[muduck18]

Too many people like me, and four of my immediate neighbors...

u can have my gun. when you pry it from my cold dead fingers.

[XCastleXJ]

"when they come for your guns, give them your bullets"

just like the last Assault Weapons ban, the 10 year clause was put in to see what the effects on crime the ban would have in a period of time and to allow review of the ban after the ten years was up. and after ten years there was absolutely nothing showing that the A.W. ban did anything positive to gun violence in america.

thats what they are showing in the video, that after six years of hand guns being banned, nothing good has come of it.

it really pisses me off the way alot of people are viewing the right to keep and bare arms. saying things like the constitution was written under different circumstances and what not.

well yeah it was written under different circumstances, but the principals that it was written on were established long before the text of it.

weather someone is breaking into my home or attacking my family in the 1700's or in 2009, im pulling the trigger for the same reason, with the same justification, and the same right to do so!

[srimes]

If you want to support gun rights in this country, join the NRA.

x2

They aren't perfect, but they're the best we've got now. I joined after my wife joined the aclu :doh:

And after the election I bought my first shotgun :pirate1:

[Ralph]

"when they come for your guns, give them your bullets"

just like the last Assault Weapons ban, the 10 year clause was put in to see what the effects on crime the ban would have in a period of time and to allow review of the ban after the ten years was up. and after ten years there was absolutely nothing showing that the A.W. ban did anything positive to gun violence in america.

thats what they are showing in the video, that after six years of hand guns being banned, nothing good has come of it.

it really pisses me off the way alot of people are viewing the right to keep and bare arms. saying things like the constitution was written under different circumstances and what not.

well yeah it was written under different circumstances, but the principals that it was written on were established long before the text of it.

weather someone is breaking into my home or attacking my family in the 1700's or in 2009, im pulling the trigger for the same reason, with the same justification, and the same right to do so!
You nailed it, brother.

[muduck18]

x2

They aren't perfect, but they're the best we've got now. I joined after my wife joined the aclu :doh:

And after the election I bought my first shotgun :pirate1:

I have since collected my first hand gun and my concealed carry permit...

[joe_peters]

GB is living proof of the old saying: Its easier to control unarmed slaves than confront armed Citizens--we taught old King George that one.

[SBrad001]

You guys do realize that gun violence in Great Britain actually did have a dramatic decrease after the 'banning' of all firearms? Last year in GB, there were a reported ~9000 violent crimes committed with firearms. That is a fact. compared to our 388,310 violent crimes committed with a firearm in the US. Even when you take into account the per capita ratio of gun violence, the US is about 30 times higher.

BTW, I am very pro-firearm ownership. . . .

[Tim_MN]

You guys do realize that gun violence in Great Britain actually did have a dramatic decrease after the 'banning' of all firearms? . . . .


I call BS here. So called "gun crimes" may be down, yet overall violent, felony level crime rates continue to go up at incredible rates.

Click on the link and learn the truth for yourself - http://tinyurl.com/aq4btk -


Most homes in England have Dead Bolt locks on the interior doors because in addition to the UK anti-gun laws they have laws that prohibit you from defending yourself, family, or home from invading criminals. If you whack a criminal with a stick inside your own home in the UK you will be charged with assault.


.

Britain, Australia top U.S. in violent crime
Rates Down Under increase despite strict gun-control measures
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

By Jon Dougherty
2001 WorldNetDaily.com

Law enforcement and anti-crime activists regularly claim that the United States tops the charts in most crime-rate categories, but a new international study says that America's former master -- Great Britain -- has much higher levels of crime.

The International Crime Victims Survey, conducted by Leiden University in Holland, found that England and Wales ranked second overall in violent crime among industrialized nations.

Twenty-six percent of English citizens -- roughly one-quarter of the population -- have been victimized by violent crime. Australia led the list with more than 30 percent of its population victimized.

The United States didn't even make the "top 10" list of industrialized nations whose citizens were victimized by crime.

Jack Straw, the British home secretary, admitted that "levels of victimization are higher than in most comparable countries for most categories of crime."

Highlights of the study indicated that:

The percentage of the population that suffered "contact crime" in England and Wales was 3.6 percent, compared with 1.9 percent in the United States and 0.4 percent in Japan.

Burglary rates in England and Wales were also among the highest recorded. Australia (3.9 percent) and Denmark (3.1 per cent) had higher rates of burglary with entry than England and Wales (2.8 percent). In the U.S., the rate was 2.6 percent, according to 1995 figures;

"After Australia and England and Wales, the highest prevalence of crime was in Holland (25 percent), Sweden (25 percent) and Canada (24 percent). The United States, despite its high murder rate, was among the middle ranking countries with a 21 percent victimization rate," the London Telegraph said.

England and Wales also led in automobile thefts. More than 2.5 percent of the population had been victimized by car theft, followed by 2.1 percent in Australia and 1.9 percent in France. Again, the U.S. was not listed among the "top 10" nations.

The study found that Australia led in burglary rates, with nearly 4 percent of the population having been victimized by a burglary. Denmark was second with 3.1 percent; the U.S. was listed eighth at about 1.8 percent.

Interestingly, the study found that one of the lowest victimization rates -- just 15 percent overall -- occurred in Northern Ireland, home of the Irish Republican Army and scene of years of terrorist violence.
Analysts in the U.S. were quick to point out that all of the other industrialized nations included in the survey had stringent gun-control laws, but were overall much more violent than the U.S.

Indeed, information on Handgun Control's Center to Prevent Handgun Violence website actually praises Australia and attempts to portray Australia as a much safer country following strict gun-control measures passed by lawmakers in 1996.

"The next time a credulous friend or acquaintance tells you that Australia actually suffered more crime when they got tougher on guns ... offer him a Foster's, and tell him the facts," the CPHV site says.

"In 1998, the rate at which firearms were used in murder, attempted murder, assault, sexual assault and armed robbery went down. In that year, the last for which statistics are available, the number of murders involving a firearm declined to its lowest point in four years," says CPHV.

However, the International Crime Victims Survey notes that overall crime victimization Down Under rose from 27.8 percent of the population in 1988, to 28.6 percent in 1991 to over 30 percent in 1999.

Advocates of less gun control in the U.S. say the drop in gun murder rates was more than offset by the overall victimization increase. Also, they note that Australia leads the ICVS report in three of four categories -- burglary (3.9 percent of the population), violent crime (4.1 percent) and overall victimization (about 31 percent).

Australia is second to England in auto theft (2.1 percent).

In March 2000, WorldNetDaily reported that since Australia's widespread gun ban, violent crime had increased in the country.

WND reported that, although lawmakers responsible for passing the ban promised a safer country, the nation's crime statistics tell a different story:

Countrywide, homicides are up 3.2 percent.
Assaults are up 8.6 percent.
Amazingly, armed robberies have climbed nearly 45 percent.
In the Australian state of Victoria, gun homicides have climbed 300 percent.
In the 25 years before the gun bans, crime in Australia had been dropping steadily.
There has been a reported "dramatic increase" in home burglaries and assaults on the elderly.

[SBrad001]

I call BS here. So called "gun crimes" may be down, yet overall violent, felony level crime rates continue to go up at incredible rates.

Click on the link and learn the truth for yourself - http://tinyurl.com/aq4btk -


Most homes in England have Dead Bolt locks on the interior doors because in addition to the UK anti-gun laws they have laws that prohibit you from defending yourself, family, or home from invading criminals. If you whack a criminal with a stick inside your own home in the UK you will be charged with assault.


.

Britain, Australia top U.S. in violent crime
Rates Down Under increase despite strict gun-control measures
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

By Jon Dougherty
2001 WorldNetDaily.com

Law enforcement and anti-crime activists regularly claim that the United States tops the charts in most crime-rate categories, but a new international study says that America's former master -- Great Britain -- has much higher levels of crime.

The International Crime Victims Survey, conducted by Leiden University in Holland, found that England and Wales ranked second overall in violent crime among industrialized nations.

Twenty-six percent of English citizens -- roughly one-quarter of the population -- have been victimized by violent crime. Australia led the list with more than 30 percent of its population victimized.

The United States didn't even make the "top 10" list of industrialized nations whose citizens were victimized by crime.

Jack Straw, the British home secretary, admitted that "levels of victimization are higher than in most comparable countries for most categories of crime."

Highlights of the study indicated that:

The percentage of the population that suffered "contact crime" in England and Wales was 3.6 percent, compared with 1.9 percent in the United States and 0.4 percent in Japan.

Burglary rates in England and Wales were also among the highest recorded. Australia (3.9 percent) and Denmark (3.1 per cent) had higher rates of burglary with entry than England and Wales (2.8 percent). In the U.S., the rate was 2.6 percent, according to 1995 figures;

"After Australia and England and Wales, the highest prevalence of crime was in Holland (25 percent), Sweden (25 percent) and Canada (24 percent). The United States, despite its high murder rate, was among the middle ranking countries with a 21 percent victimization rate," the London Telegraph said.

England and Wales also led in automobile thefts. More than 2.5 percent of the population had been victimized by car theft, followed by 2.1 percent in Australia and 1.9 percent in France. Again, the U.S. was not listed among the "top 10" nations.

The study found that Australia led in burglary rates, with nearly 4 percent of the population having been victimized by a burglary. Denmark was second with 3.1 percent; the U.S. was listed eighth at about 1.8 percent.

Interestingly, the study found that one of the lowest victimization rates -- just 15 percent overall -- occurred in Northern Ireland, home of the Irish Republican Army and scene of years of terrorist violence.
Analysts in the U.S. were quick to point out that all of the other industrialized nations included in the survey had stringent gun-control laws, but were overall much more violent than the U.S.

Indeed, information on Handgun Control's Center to Prevent Handgun Violence website actually praises Australia and attempts to portray Australia as a much safer country following strict gun-control measures passed by lawmakers in 1996.

"The next time a credulous friend or acquaintance tells you that Australia actually suffered more crime when they got tougher on guns ... offer him a Foster's, and tell him the facts," the CPHV site says.

"In 1998, the rate at which firearms were used in murder, attempted murder, assault, sexual assault and armed robbery went down. In that year, the last for which statistics are available, the number of murders involving a firearm declined to its lowest point in four years," says CPHV.

However, the International Crime Victims Survey notes that overall crime victimization Down Under rose from 27.8 percent of the population in 1988, to 28.6 percent in 1991 to over 30 percent in 1999.

Advocates of less gun control in the U.S. say the drop in gun murder rates was more than offset by the overall victimization increase. Also, they note that Australia leads the ICVS report in three of four categories -- burglary (3.9 percent of the population), violent crime (4.1 percent) and overall victimization (about 31 percent).

Australia is second to England in auto theft (2.1 percent).

In March 2000, WorldNetDaily reported that since Australia's widespread gun ban, violent crime had increased in the country.

WND reported that, although lawmakers responsible for passing the ban promised a safer country, the nation's crime statistics tell a different story:

Countrywide, homicides are up 3.2 percent.
Assaults are up 8.6 percent.
Amazingly, armed robberies have climbed nearly 45 percent.
In the Australian state of Victoria, gun homicides have climbed 300 percent.
In the 25 years before the gun bans, crime in Australia had been dropping steadily.
There has been a reported "dramatic increase" in home burglaries and assaults on the elderly.

I'll post up the link for those crime stats later. Personally, I think that there is a correlation between the drop in violent crimes committed with guns and the gun ban, but correlation does NOT equal causation.

Oh and by the way, it is complete BS that violent crimes continue to rise. There was a HUGE drop in GB and the US in total violent crime committed around 1994-95. And we didn't ban guns then but they did.

Look for yourself from the FBI stats

http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/glance/tables/guncrimetab.htm

[SBrad001]

Ok, here's the link to the British statistical ministry. . . .

http://www.homeoffice.gov.uk/rds/bcs1.html

http://www.homeoffice.gov.uk/rds/pdfs08/hosb0708.pdf

Check out page 49 of the second link.

That link you (Tim) posted earlier is BS. You can do the math yourself, but the US is way ahead of Britain when it comes to violent crimes and gun violence.

Now understand this, these are the actual statistics from the US that I posted earlier and now GB's. Both show a DRAMATIC drop in crime starting around 1995. At the same time GB and Australia banned guns. The US didn't ban guns. All three nations show the same crime trends. Gun-a-phobics will point to GB and Australia and say, "LOOK, banning guns will prevent crime and violence!" My reply is that there is definitely a correlation, but banning guns does NOT equal causation in the decrease in violence and crime. You simply can't prove that correlation is also causation because the US follows the same trends without banning guns.

BUT, our per capita rates of violent crimes is MUCH greater than either country's. And gun violence is on the order of 30 times greater than either country.

[tbburg]

Ok, here's the link to the British statistical ministry. . . .

One MINOR blip in the statistics.

FBI crime stats are based on reported crimes
British crime stats are amended by court outcome.

Example: Woman raped, rapist caught pleads out to assault to avoid ending up on a sex offender registry.
US: Add one rape to the list.
GB: Add one assault.

[SBrad001]

One MINOR blip in the statistics. . .


Sure, argue it anyway you want. But it ain't minor, and it's not a blip. I think you missed the entire point of my post anyway. . .

You can see the same trends in the UK as you can here. BUT gun violence is 30x less than it is here. No amount of under reporting can make up that difference. And if you think otherwise, you're foolish. 388,000+ reported cases of gun violence in the US vs a little less than 9,000 in the UK. And you call that a "MINOR blip". . . .

[tbburg]

Sure, argue it anyway you want. But it ain't minor, and it's not a blip.
I think I wasn't clear. I wasn't trying to argue that the numbers were actually similar, or anything like that. I was pointing out that there are differences in the way the statistics are compiled.(and yes, I do think that statistical differences could account for half the difference in violence rates, maybe more)
I think you missed the entire point of my post anyway. . .
I think the point of your post was this:
There is a higher percentage of violent crime, and specifically gun-related crime in the United States then in most other "first world" countries.
Also:
There seems to be a correlation between firearms ownership(which I would translate into "availability")and gun-related violence.

And you provided sources for statistics to back up your statement.
Did I miss anything?

Personally, I think that there is a correlation between the drop in violent crimes committed with guns and the gun ban, but correlation does NOT equal causation.It doesn't surprise me that a total ban on private firearm ownership would cause a drop in over-all GUN RELATED violence, if for no other reason then due to the criminal's hardship of obtaining a firearm. The question I would want answered would be: "Does a total ban on firearms cause an overall drop in violent crime?" Are you going to be relieved that, although you're more likely to be mugged, the mugger will probably not be using a gun?

It seems that what you're getting at is that the U.S. has a much more violent society then, say, the U.K. I think it's a little misleading to focus on guns to use firearm statistics ALONE to try to make the point. Criminals in the U.S. use firearms at a much higher rate then 'most any other country on the planet(true), and it is due to the availability of guns here. This fact by itself, and the related statistics alone do not prove we are more violent then other societies.

Here's an example:
It seems that a depressed person in the US is 4 times more likely to shoot him/herself with a gun then an equivalent French person(about 50% of suicides in the 'States are by gun) Using that data alone, you could say it would be a good idea to keep guns away from depressed people.
However, on average, your everyday Frenchman is about 50% more likely to kill him/herself then the average American(rate: America 9-11 per 100,000 on any given year France, 15-17 per 100,000) With these statistics in hand, you can see that the availability of firearms in the U.S. isn't causing excessive suicides here. The supposed "ease" of suicide by firearms here doesn't get us statistically close to the rate in France, where they have to do it the hard way.

Violent crime is the same way. Yes, criminals are more likely to use guns here, and more likely to use knives or bats in the U.K., but the TYPE OF WEAPON used doesn't indicate overall level of violence in a society. As everyone on the international stage loves to point out, we(the U.S) have the highest murder rate in the industrialized world.
Using your "30 times higher gun violence" number:
either 1) U.S. citizens are some cross-eyed non-shootin' sucka's, and we have great trauma centers,
or 2) There are a whole lotta' folks gettin' stiffed in the UK with bats and knives,
because the actual overall murder rates are:
U.S. 5.5-5.7 per 100,000
U.K. 1.75-2.1 per 100,000
That's "3 times higher", not "30"

Just because some scuzzball didn't use a gun, it doesn't mean a crime wasn't committed.

[8Mud]

Here in Germany there isn't a ban, but gun ownership isn't easy. There is a whole process to go through.
I did the numbers awhile back on just spousal attacks. The numbers in Germany are just about the same as the U.S. per hundred thousand. The methods are different. Here arson seems to be number one and knives number two, guns are farther down the list of methods. And in the arson attacks, the usual outcome is more deaths and serious injuries per *incident* than the U.S.
Just about weekly, you hear about an arson incident where the spouse was targeted and a multi family dwelling was incinerated.
When my British acquaintances bring up gun ownership in the U.S. my normal response is there are fewer belligerent drunks in the U.S. to keep the guns away from.

[SBrad001]

Violent crime is the same way. Yes, criminals are more likely to use guns here, and more likely to use knives or bats in the U.K., but the TYPE OF WEAPON used doesn't indicate overall level of violence in a society. As everyone on the international stage loves to point out, we(the U.S) have the highest murder rate in the industrialized world.
Using your "30 times higher gun violence" number:
either 1) U.S. citizens are some cross-eyed non-shootin' sucka's, and we have great trauma centers,
or 2) There are a whole lotta' folks gettin' stiffed in the UK with bats and knives,
because the actual overall murder rates are:
U.S. 5.5-5.7 per 100,000
U.K. 1.75-2.1 per 100,000
That's "3 times higher", not "30"

Just because some scuzzball didn't use a gun, it doesn't mean a crime wasn't committed.

Did I say "murder rates"? No, what I said gun related crimes/gun violence. That's a misunderstanding on your part. With that being said we are around 30x greater than the UK when it comes to gun violence. As for murder rates, you've already shown that an individual is more than twice as likely to be murder here in the States than in the UK. America lives in a much more violent society.

Listen, all I'm trying to point out is that this NRA propaganda sh!t is really made of a lot off twisted facts and statistics. I'm an NRA member and I still do my research, you all should do the same. And that means not just being spoon fed choice facts and statistics from the NRA or any other group.

[JNickel101]

You're really comparing apples and oranges....2 totally different societies, sizes of countries and population - and UK firearm laws are across the board, while US firearm laws vary by state or even by county or city.

Chew on these stats...

http://www.wnd.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=55288

[Tim_MN]

That link you (Tim) posted earlier is BS. You can do the math yourself, but the US is way ahead of Britain when it comes to violent crimes and gun violence.


The link is a standard GOOGLE search. If you think I somehow rigged the results, open your own search page in GOOGLE and type in the same terms.

Your DOJ link shows that US crimes involving firearms have a downward trend at the same time private US firearms ownership is at all-time highs and continues to rise.

[SBrad001]

The link is a standard GOOGLE search. If you think I somehow rigged the results, open your own search page in GOOGLE and type in the same terms.

Your DOJ link shows that US crimes involving firearms have a downward trend at the same time private US firearms ownership is at all-time highs and continues to rise.

Dude, are you dense?

I freaking said that the US shows a progressive and steady downward trend, the very same trend can be seen in Great Britain. The only difference is that GB banned guns.

Secondly, I said that violent crimes committed in the US are 30x greater than in Great Britain.

The problem I have with your search results and statistics is that none of them come from sources that I trust, it's someone reporting "results". Now the DOJ link I posted and the link to the Home Office of GB both explain how their methodology was implemented AND their sources used for statistical analysis.

So yeah, I have a problem with your 'search results'.

[SBrad001]

I call BS here. So called "gun crimes" may be down, yet overall violent, felony level crime rates continue to go up at incredible rates.



This is where you completely lose my respect. . . I GAVE you Great Britain's Home Office and their own statistics on crime. They show a downward trend since 1995.

Yet you claim, and falsely, that "felony level crime rates continue to go up at incredible rates."

Dude, yer funny.

[Tim_MN]

Dude, are you dense?. . . .

Troll

[SBrad001]

Troll

. . . felony level crime rates continue to go up at incredible rates. . . .

and you can't get your facts straight. . . .

[muduck18]

So, uh...
Who won the pissing match?
Was anyone keeping score?
I stepped out for a couple days and was hoping there would be a clear victor but this is shameful you both resorted to name calling way too early in the game.

[ECKSJAY]

Statistics are moot. The Second Amendment is about preservation and preventing tyrannical Government control. Britain lost their rights when they accepted the 'ban'. Remove access to guns, of course 'gun crime' goes down. Does violent crime go down, stay the same, or go up?

On the flip side, the DOJ/FBI 'statistics' are redundant. One shooting means multiple reports in a lot of places. The 911 call, the police report, the ambulance report, the surgeon in the ER who removes the bullets... Negligent incidents are reported the same as violent crimes committed with firearms. ;) Of course our numbers are high...there's no constant means of recording the values.

[srimes]

Statistics are moot. The Second Amendment is about preservation and preventing tyrannical Government control. Britain lost their rights when they accepted the 'ban'.


x2

I think there's a danger in arguing gun rights based on crime stats. The rights isn't based on reducing crime, or even "hunting rights." It's the final governmental "check and balance." We the people have the right to replace our government. If not by voting then by force.

[SBrad001]

. . . I think there's a danger in arguing gun rights based on crime stats. . . .

That's exactly my point. I can come up with legitimate statistics that either side can use to justify their point of view. BUT the opposite point of view will never take you seriously if you just start spewing out stuff with backing it up with legitimate sources. Saying stuff like, "crime is out of control and continues to rise at alarming rates" just isn't going to cut it when the opposite point of view can easily come up with legitimate source that contradicts the initial statement.