Thinking about getting a ZJ

[kdailey4315]

I know it's not XJ related but I figured I ask anyway. I'm thinking about picking up a 1998 ZJ. Mainly for the 5.9L engine. Should I do this? Of course I'll be lifting it and doing some other stuff to it. Yay or Nay?

[Darky]

Is it the 5.9 Limited? If yes then definitely. If no then do it anyways if you want one, have room, and can afford it.

[kdailey4315]

Yes, I would only get a 5.9L Limited.

[ehall]

that's a sweet vehicle no matter what you do with it

[billyjp2]

i like the Orvis edition as well

[kdailey4315]

Is the 5.9 really that much better than the 5.2? Why?

[billyjp2]

The 5.9 Limited was a Jeep (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jeep) Grand Cherokee (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grand_Cherokee) produced only for the 1998 model year, having more luxury and performance than that of the regular Limited. Chrysler churned out nearly a quarter million Grand Cherokees in 1998. Of those, less than fifteen thousand were 5.9s. It housed a Magnum 5.9 L V8 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/V8) engine with an output of 245 hp (183 kW) and 345 lb·ft (468 N·m) of torque, going from zero to 60 mph (100 km/h) in only 7.3 seconds[5] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jeep_Grand_Cherokee#cite_note-4) (Motor Trend measured this at a slightly faster 6.8 seconds [6] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jeep_Grand_Cherokee#cite_note-5)see Motor Trend, January 1998, page 51), making it the quickest SUV available that year.

[billyjp2]

Other features separated the 5.9 from the standard Limited model including[8] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jeep_Grand_Cherokee#cite_note-7):

Functioning heat-extracting hood louvers
Mesh grille insert
Five-spoke alloy (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alloy) Ultrastar wheels
Black-wall tires
An improved premium 180 watt, 10 speaker Infinity stereo (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Car_audio) system
A rear speaker bar for additional infinity speakers
Calf-grain, soft leather seats and trim
Leather door inserts
Leather shift handle, e-brake and transfer case handle
Enhanced faux wood trim throughout, additionally around the transmission shift handle base
A full-leather spare tire cover with multiple pockets
A center leather armrest in the rear seat
A lower-profile roof rack that eliminated squeeking problems found on the base 5.2l limited
Molded rocker panels
Stock foglights
Stock power sunroof/moonroof


The Grand Cherokee 5.9 further included additional performance-enhancing features including:


A stronger 46RE transmission than the 5.2L with a heavier output shaft
Quadradrive heavy duty NV249 transfer case
Standard trac-lock rear differential
An electric fan
A high-output 150A alternator
Lower restriction exhaust and chrome plated exhaust tip [9] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jeep_Grand_Cherokee#cite_note-Jeeps_Unlimited_-_Speed_Freaks-8)

[Jester99]

My best friend drives the slate colored 5.9 limited. They are everything you have heard about them and more. Check the D44 though. They have an aluminum housing and are much weaker than the standard 44. They usually seem to go out around 100k on these.

[RichP]

We have a nice 97ZJ 4.0, auto, 242, D35 with a new limited slip in it, I found it for the wife to replace her olds cutlass last year. Good truck, comfortable, good mileage, good power, little harder to work on, that engine bay fits a V motor better, that 4.0 is kind tight in the front and back.
The V8's only had two issues, tranny which all of them have, even the 4.0, that chrysler tranny is a POS and the intake manifold leaking after about 120K or so.
Guy I worked with bought a 98ZJ with the 5.9, had it pulled and built, pistons, rods, head work, balanced and blueprinted as well as a super chager. It was a $ucken rocket. Oh, he put a real dana 44 in the back too, the 35 did not last long.

If you found one for a good price get it.

[kdailey4315]

After doing some research I have found that Jeep only made a little over 4000 with CA legal emissions. This should make my search a little more interesting.

[igotanxj]

I'd get one. I really like the ZJs, especially with the 5.9 Limited. I almost wish I had one instead of my XJ, but then again I got my XJ for close to nothing and can beat it up without caring.

[.40CalPatriot]

Ahh sorry to be off topic, but the Subject title totally reminds me of BeerFest.:cheers:

[heyjpark1]

I've been dabbling with the idea of buying a 5.9 for a while now, because that engine in that rig is sweet.

Be aware, however, that the ZJs are buggy (at best) and can be downright pieces of shit (at worst). The only thing I can think of off the top of my head that the 5.9 improved is the tranny.


I can elaborate my experiences with several ZJ's if you're interested...

[tharlanjr]

I love my ZJ, it doesnt have any problems that I havent created. I have beat the crud outta it. It has about 125K miles and the Engine/Tranny are fine.

Its a 97 5.2 btw.

I have mine lifted 4.5 and 33's.

The 5.9's are awesome.

Look on NAGCA for a lot of Grand info...

Or mallcrawlin.com for more harcore stuff

[kdailey4315]

Ahh sorry to be off topic, but the Subject title totally reminds me of BeerFest.:cheers:

If you have to ask you can't afford it.

[Jester99]

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Cars-Trucks___1998-GRAND-CHEROKEE-5-9L-4X4-LTD-LOW-MILES-NO-RESERVE_W0QQitemZ260338355911QQddnZCarsQ20Q26Q20Tr ucksQQddiZ2282QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUS_Cars_Trucks?ha sh=item260338355911&_trksid=p4506.c0.m245&_trkparms=72%3A727|65%3A12|39%3A1|240%3A1308

[kdailey4315]

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Cars-Trucks___1998-GRAND-CHEROKEE-5-9L-4X4-LTD-LOW-MILES-NO-RESERVE_W0QQitemZ260338355911QQddnZCarsQ20Q26Q20Tr ucksQQddiZ2282QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUS_Cars_Trucks?ha sh=item260338355911&_trksid=p4506.c0.m245&_trkparms=72%3A727|65%3A12|39%3A1|240%3A1308 (http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Cars-Trucks___1998-GRAND-CHEROKEE-5-9L-4X4-LTD-LOW-MILES-NO-RESERVE_W0QQitemZ260338355911QQddnZCarsQ20Q26Q20Tr ucksQQddiZ2282QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUS_Cars_Trucks?ha sh=item260338355911&_trksid=p4506.c0.m245&_trkparms=72%3A727%7C65%3A12%7C39%3A1%7C240%3A1308 )

Saw that. I'm currently the high bidder but it's white. The only color I'm not that fond of.

[igotanxj]

I know of a 96 ZJ Limited with a 5.2L for $600. It needs some work, but still...
http://www.marylandjeepclub.org/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=12&t=14059

[rocknxj]

I turned down a 5.9L ZJ over the summer when gas was over 4 bucks a gallon. I chickened out when I realized it preferred premium gas, which would have added another 50 cents a gallon.

It was in excellent shape and was loaded with every option. The ZJ would be such an improvement over the XJ for towing and general use, but the XJ seems far easier to upgrade for the trail. The solution is obvious. One of each.

[srimes]

What do yall think of the WJs? They've come down in price and are about the same as the ZJs here.

[tharlanjr]

I've seen a few beefed up WJ's and if done right they are just as good offroad.

Less aftermarket stuff, but its getting better.

[rocknxj]

What do yall think of the WJs? They've come down in price and are about the same as the ZJs here.

I had a 2000 WJ with the 4.7L V8 Laredo. I absolutely loved it and it was a beautiful ride, towed exceptionally well, and found numerous uses for it with camping, fishing, and general daily use.

I sold it in favor of the XJ. I'd buy another one only if I wanted to keep it mildly offroad capable and as a daily driver. I wanted something cheap that I could bash on the Sierra Nevada trails. The WJ is not designed for that kind of abuse.

[heyjpark1]

WJ>ZJ

The availability of aftermarket parts is increasing daily for WJs, and there is no comparison in quality.

[Kittrell]

ZJs are just like XJs. They can run forever, or you can get one that was not treated well, and its a piece of shit. Heck, for all you XJ lovers, my parents used to own a '00 XJ sport, that was purchased brand new, and that thing was back at the dealership more times that year than any XJ I've ever owned, combined. ZJs did have a few more minor issues, like the VC in the 249 going out. But if it's had a good life, it will treat you well. I have always wanted a slate 5.9, but could never get rid of my XJ for it. ZJ's are more comfortable to ride in, and cost more to lift, thats pretty much the difference. If you are going V8, get the 5.9. Otherwise just stick with the I6, Special Editions were very nice.

P.S. WJs have had WAY more issues than ZJs ever did.

[johnnyc]

After doing some research I have found that Jeep only made a little over 4000 with CA legal emissions. This should make my search a little more interesting.

Don't limit yourself to California. Check the surrounding states. You'll have no problems getting it registered here.

[heyjpark1]

ZJs are just like XJs. They can run forever, or you can get one that was not treated well, and its a piece of shit. Heck, for all you XJ lovers, my parents used to own a '00 XJ sport, that was purchased brand new, and that thing was back at the dealership more times that year than any XJ I've ever owned, combined. ZJs did have a few more minor issues, like the VC in the 249 going out. But if it's had a good life, it will treat you well. I have always wanted a slate 5.9, but could never get rid of my XJ for it. ZJ's are more comfortable to ride in, and cost more to lift, thats pretty much the difference. If you are going V8, get the 5.9. Otherwise just stick with the I6, Special Editions were very nice.

P.S. WJs have had WAY more issues than ZJs ever did.

How so? Other then brake issues (which Chryco should have warranted beyond the standard 3yr./36,000 miles term due to faulty engineering) the WJs are 100x the vehicle as compared to the ZJ.

ZJs suffered from (and this is not an exhaustive list by any means):
*HORRIBLE transmissions in the 5.2l models

*Poorly designed all wheel drive mechanism (in rigs with the 249 transfer case and VC...the 4.0l models had the 242 which alleviated the VC issues)

*Faulty electronics-where do I start? The sunroof never has enough voltage to operate the motor correctly/fully, the power door lock motors don't always engage the actual door locks, the alarm system will eventually leave the rig inoperative (gotta cut the wire to disable the alarm altogether), the heated seats don't work (don't buy a repair kit to fix em, either...better to go aftermarket), etc.

*Body cladding that falls off

The ZJs do have a good drive train (other then the transfer case/VC issues) and are comfortable. Obviously they are affordable, too, do to their age.

As I said before, I don't know how anyone can begin to argue that ZJs>WJs. Its not even a close comparison.

[kdailey4315]

How so? Other then brake issues (which Chryco should have warranted beyond the standard 3yr./36,000 miles term due to faulty engineering) the WJs are 100x the vehicle as compared to the ZJ.

ZJs suffered from (and this is not an exhaustive list by any means):
*HORRIBLE transmissions in the 5.2l models

*Poorly designed all wheel drive mechanism (in rigs with the 249 transfer case and VC...the 4.0l models had the 242 which alleviated the VC issues)

*Faulty electronics-where do I start? The sunroof never has enough voltage to operate the motor correctly/fully, the power door lock motors don't always engage the actual door locks, the alarm system will eventually leave the rig inoperative (gotta cut the wire to disable the alarm altogether), the heated seats don't work (don't buy a repair kit to fix em, either...better to go aftermarket), etc.

*Body cladding that falls off

The ZJs do have a good drive train (other then the transfer case/VC issues) and are comfortable. Obviously they are affordable, too, do to their age.

As I said before, I don't know how anyone can begin to argue that ZJs>WJs. Its not even a close comparison.

Did the 4.0L in the 2000 WJ's have the head cracking problem also?

[RichP]

Pretty much the chrysler trannies fell far short of the AW4's used in the XJ's. Don't know why either, they, chrysler, made pretty good trannies in the 70's and 80's and then just seemed to go in the bucket in the 90's.
One thing I noticed when I was adding a couple of new key fobs to the ZJ and had the chrylser scan tool hooked up to our 97 was that it identified itself as an XJ engine control unit. I moved the scan tool over to my 98XJ and the screens were all the same only differing on some selections, my XJ is a 5 speed. Leads me to think that replacing the chrysler trannie with an AW4 or an AX15 in the case of 4.0L ZJ's would only involve a new ecu from a XJ and the clutch/pedal/bracket/console parts. All the 'stuff' for putting a 5 speed is already there for the ZJ from the outline of the slaves master in the firewall which would only need to be cut out, down to the mounts for the clutch pedal, in fact the 5 speed was an option on the ZJ for 2-3 years when they first came out so the parts do actually exist from the factory. The 5 speed ECU from the XJ would remove the TCU input requirements, the only thing I don't know is whether the plugs for the AW4 and the chrylser tranny are the same, I've never even looked at an auto XJ. I've actually been looking on craigslist for someone selling a 97 or 98 4.0 with a bad tranny and or transfer case, did find one with a bad transfer case just did not have the money at the time to go look and maybe buy it.
One of my customers/friends whose shop systems I maintain just got ECU programming package that allows him total access to the ECU's, I'm building the PC for it now, it has the ability from what I am reading to download the whole ECU, reprogram and then upload the modified package, seems pretty cool but dam expensive.

[heyjpark1]

Did the 4.0L in the 2000 WJ's have the head cracking problem also?

Not sure. Personally, I would never own a ZJ/WJ with the 4.0. They can't get out of their own way, suffer from poor gas mileage and are inept for towing. And this is coming from a guy that thinks the 4.0 is one of the top 5 engines ever made (#1-GM 350, #2-Ford 351, #3 AMC 4.0, #4 GM 3.8l, #5 Chryco 318).

[tharlanjr]

My Transmission is fine with over 123K miles

My VC never has given me problems and I know of very few people's whom actually do. And besides being an expensive part, having 50-50 lo lock it awesome.

I have beat the crud out of my jeep stock axles 4.10 and an aussie with no problems.

All my electrical works.

None of my boddy cladding has fallen off, except for my front bumper which my own doing.

Treat the vehicle right and it will last fine, beat it ip and your going to have problems just like any other vehicle.

The only thing the WJ has is the 4.7 which is a decent powering engine with better milage than my 5.2.

I dont see how you can like the WJ more than the ZJ, oh wait its your opinion...



How so? Other then brake issues (which Chryco should have warranted beyond the standard 3yr./36,000 miles term due to faulty engineering) the WJs are 100x the vehicle as compared to the ZJ.

ZJs suffered from (and this is not an exhaustive list by any means):
*HORRIBLE transmissions in the 5.2l models

*Poorly designed all wheel drive mechanism (in rigs with the 249 transfer case and VC...the 4.0l models had the 242 which alleviated the VC issues)

*Faulty electronics-where do I start? The sunroof never has enough voltage to operate the motor correctly/fully, the power door lock motors don't always engage the actual door locks, the alarm system will eventually leave the rig inoperative (gotta cut the wire to disable the alarm altogether), the heated seats don't work (don't buy a repair kit to fix em, either...better to go aftermarket), etc.

*Body cladding that falls off

The ZJs do have a good drive train (other then the transfer case/VC issues) and are comfortable. Obviously they are affordable, too, do to their age.

As I said before, I don't know how anyone can begin to argue that ZJs>WJs. Its not even a close comparison.

[Darky]

I like the WJ better. It's more of a styling thing. :)

[tharlanjr]

Hows this!!

http://www.grandcherokeephotos.com/albums/userpics/10143/normal_June06_Aug06_151.jpg

[Darky]

Hows this!!

http://www.grandcherokeephotos.com/albums/userpics/10143/normal_June06_Aug06_151.jpg
Tis vurry nice-a. About how I'd build one for my DD/occasional wheeler.

[tharlanjr]

do it...

[D.I.T.A]

i've driven a wj and all i can say is it sucks it feels so lose it feels like the steering wheel is connected to a bowl of mased potatos i've also driven a zj with the 5.2 it cooks for what it is and the handling is better i would take it anyday

[srimes]

maybe that's just the wj you drove? Wikipedia says the chassis was stiffend by Porche and you know it can't be wrong. I think it's lighter than the zj too

[D.I.T.A]

maybe that's just the wj you drove? Wikipedia says the chassis was stiffend by Porche and you know it can't be wrong. I think it's lighter than the zj too
i got to drive two one was a overland with the 4.7 and the other just had 4.0l both just felt mushy and lose

[heyjpark1]

My Transmission is fine with over 123K miles

My VC never has given me problems and I know of very few people's whom actually do. And besides being an expensive part, having 50-50 lo lock it awesome.

I have beat the crud out of my jeep stock axles 4.10 and an aussie with no problems.

All my electrical works.

None of my boddy cladding has fallen off, except for my front bumper which my own doing.

Treat the vehicle right and it will last fine, beat it ip and your going to have problems just like any other vehicle.

The only thing the WJ has is the 4.7 which is a decent powering engine with better milage than my 5.2.

I dont see how you can like the WJ more than the ZJ, oh wait its your opinion...

1) You're lucky with the transmission issue then. Have you actually read the failure rates of those trannys? They are the 2nd highest failure rate of any transmission ever made for under 150,000 miles.

2) Your VC will fail. Is this your first ZJ? They fail because the inherent design promotes failure.

3) I call B.S. too all your electrical working.

4) I never said that I prefer WJs to ZJs. I just said that WJs are better vehicles then ZJs. I've owned both and don't have any allegiances like you do. I understand that you own a ZJ, so you are biased-but facts are facts. ZJs are mechanically inferior to WJs in almost every way. I'm guessing that 1) you either have only owned one ZJ, 2) Are so completely in love with them that you won't admit they have issues or 3) Have been exceedingly lucky (123,XXX ain't that many miles).

By the way, usually the fuel economy is better on the 5.2 then the 4.7, so you're wrong on that account, too :smootch:

[Darky]

3) I call B.S. too all your electrical working.
\
Yeah, in my XJ I have one dead window, one almost dead, and cranky locks and we know XJs never FAIL!

[Silver60th]

My view:

I had the Chrysler 5.9L in my 2000 Dodge 1/2 ton. Beast of an engine, sounded amazing with a magnaflow, and had enough torque to catapult my arse to next week. My only issue: the engine SUCKED gas like a hooker with boxed wine. I got 11 mpg.

Great engine, a bit cramped of an engine compartment (fun to work on hehe), terrible gas mileage, hard to find, wants plus or better in gas grade, and can burn up rear tires super fast.

Buy one.

[tharlanjr]

Tranny, I might be lucky, but like you said, its only 123K miles.

Whats the design failure? Its an expensive part, but being on NAGCA for almost 3 years, I have heard maybe 3 people who have had theirs go bad. The rest just changed to get better aftermarket support and 2wd.

Call bs on a jeep you have never been in, I call bs you even own a jeep, wtf.

Yes, all my electrical works. window's, locks, and seats. No I don't have heated seats nor a sunroof.

I dont have an alliance to any vehicle, I would like to have a cherokee over my zj...

I have always heard the 4.7 gets better milage than the 5.2, so that was a plus for the WJ's, but whatever, lol.

I like the WJ's, but I wouldnt say one is better than the other, its all in how well you maintain your ride. If you take care of the engine and transmission, they will last, but if you ride it hard, its gonna fail.

I do have issues with my ZJ, but none that I havent caused myself...

1) You're lucky with the transmission issue then. Have you actually read the failure rates of those trannys? They are the 2nd highest failure rate of any transmission ever made for under 150,000 miles.

2) Your VC will fail. Is this your first ZJ? They fail because the inherent design promotes failure.

3) I call B.S. too all your electrical working.

4) I never said that I prefer WJs to ZJs. I just said that WJs are better vehicles then ZJs. I've owned both and don't have any allegiances like you do. I understand that you own a ZJ, so you are biased-but facts are facts. ZJs are mechanically inferior to WJs in almost every way. I'm guessing that 1) you either have only owned one ZJ, 2) Are so completely in love with them that you won't admit they have issues or 3) Have been exceedingly lucky (123,XXX ain't that many miles).

By the way, usually the fuel economy is better on the 5.2 then the 4.7, so you're wrong on that account, too :smootch:

[IslanderOffRoad]

My family has owned 2 XJ's, a ZJ, a WJ, and an SJ. All except for my XJ and SJ have been 2wd, 4.0, automatic. We've had minimal problems with all of them, they have been great, which is why my Dad keeps buying Jeeps. His 03 WJ is pushing 100k now and still runs great.

As for the TC issue, I'd just replace it with a rock trac anyway.

[Darky]

I've got a friend with a 4.0 WJ 4x4. He hasn't wheeled it at all yet but he loves it, drove it cross country when they moved to Carolina and have had no problems.

[RichP]

The WJ's did have some major issues, rear axle housing, they were produced wrong and were not 'true', had something to do with the way they stored them after production, they bent, dealers were replacing them by the truck load. In fact Chrysler was shipping them geared, brakes installed and ready to go for the first 3 years they were in production.
Transfer cases were filled, installed and shipped without cleaning the machining fluid out of them, they failed pretty fast. Remember Eagle ?, he had one, chrysler/jeep quietly bought it back after the rear failed and the transfer case, he also had problems with the front axle. I think most of them were either fixed or bought back, the only ones I would watch out for is someone who bought one and only put maybe 2,000mi a year on it and never used it enough for the damage to show up.

The axle story as I heard it was interesting, they supposedly used the axle racks from real steel dana 44's to rack and cure the hot and newly built axles to store them, apparently they did not provide the center section support and the housings themselves sagged. I know my dealer had a chain link fence with those white strips to hide the view in a 50x100ft compound outside the garages, there were probably a couple of hundred bad axles in there at a time and I mean the whole axle, disc to disc. The mechanic I talked to said they were down to under an hour to swap out and swap in and he could do them in his sleep after the first 50 or so.
Other than looking like a pregnant whale they kind of grow on ya... rule of thumb on used ones is if they make ANY noise in the drive train pass it by. Eagles apparently made noise from day one and the dealer said it was just break in IIRC...

[Jeepm@n]

So what I'm gathering is to not get a Grand? I'm a 2 XJ owner and looking for a Grand for my Fiancee' in the near future. I'm partial to the WJ body stle and I'd like to get the 4.0L as I know the reliability of it. I'm not looking to offroad it unless I plan on sleeping in the dog house. I'd use it for towing but not looking for land speed records. Just want a reliable Jeep with around 20MPG hwy.

[RichP]

So what I'm gathering is to not get a Grand? I'm a 2 XJ owner and looking for a Grand for my Fiancee' in the near future. I'm partial to the WJ body stle and I'd like to get the 4.0L as I know the reliability of it. I'm not looking to offroad it unless I plan on sleeping in the dog house. I'd use it for towing but not looking for land speed records. Just want a reliable Jeep with around 20MPG hwy.

By now if they have over 50K they must have had the replacements done. The diffs and TC usually failed under 10,000mi.

[Jeepm@n]

Thanks Rich. I did not want to buy a Toyota. She was wanting a 4-Runner or a Grand Cherokee. I'm trying my best to sway her to the Jeep.

[besthaticouldo]

i love my new zj...its a sweet truck

i bought a 94 limited with a 5.2

[heyjpark1]

So what I'm gathering is to not get a Grand? I'm a 2 XJ owner and looking for a Grand for my Fiancee' in the near future. I'm partial to the WJ body stle and I'd like to get the 4.0L as I know the reliability of it. I'm not looking to offroad it unless I plan on sleeping in the dog house. I'd use it for towing but not looking for land speed records. Just want a reliable Jeep with around 20MPG hwy.

Do not buy a WJ or ZJ with the 4.0 and expect to use it for towing. You will not be happy.

[tharlanjr]

Get the 5.2 or 5.9, but your not going to get 20MPG out of them...

And if you want to tow anything decent sized, upgrade the brakes.

[Jeepm@n]

Largest thing I pull is my dual axle pop-up camper with surge brakes. I know surge are dangerous compared to electric, but its better than no brakes.

[Jeepm@n]

Is the 4.0l that doggy in the Grand's? I'm not looking to be out pulling no diesel or V-8 truck. Just to maintain 55-65 MPH on the highway. I rarely pass anyways and never pass pulling a trailer.

[heyjpark1]

Is the 4.0l that doggy in the Grand's? I'm not looking to be out pulling no diesel or V-8 truck. Just to maintain 55-65 MPH on the highway. I rarely pass anyways and never pass pulling a trailer.

Yes, I don't think it was ever a good match. You'll be gear hunting without pulling at trailer. With a trailer, don't even think about hitting overdrive, and hope you don't have to drop to 2nd all the time.