Random thought: ATTN COLLEGE GRADS...Was college worth it?

[olivedrabcj7]

I was on the shitter a minute ago and i got to thinking about school. I just started my 4th and final year of college. Im a Management and Marketing major. My degree will be BSBA.

To those of you with an associates and or bachelors degree, was college worth it when you went out to find a job? I keep hearing people say they still can't find a job even with a bachelors degree. This is starting to worry me. I plan to start sending out resumes soon, but i was just wondering what everyone elses view on this is. [/end rant]

[jcnoble]

I got an engineering degree in the 80's, was definately worth it.

[Kejtar]

I was on the shitter a minute ago and i got to thinking about school. I just started my 4th and final year of college. Im a Management and Marketing major. My degree will be BSBA.

To those of you with an associates and or bachelors degree, was college worth it when you went out to find a job? I keep hearing people say they still can't find a job even with a bachelors degree. This is starting to worry me. I plan to start sending out resumes soon, but i was just wondering what everyone elses view on this is. [/end rant]

BS worth it if not for employment reasons then for the things I took out of it, MS, not really (at least not in my field).
As manager, when I'm hiring I look at experience more then the degree but experience + degree is a definate winner but..... usually there is only so far that you will go with just the experience.

[bajacalal]

I was on the shitter a minute ago and i got to thinking about school. I just started my 4th and final year of college. Im a Management and Marketing major. My degree will be BSBA.

To those of you with an associates and or bachelors degree, was college worth it when you went out to find a job? I keep hearing people say they still can't find a job even with a bachelors degree. This is starting to worry me. I plan to start sending out resumes soon, but i was just wondering what everyone elses view on this is. [/end rant]


Yes. I recently graduated though I have not been working at a job yet that relates to my degree. Your college degree will be something that can't be taken away, you will have if for the rest of your life. You are a more educated, insightful and well rounded person because you went to college and having a bachelors degree will set you apart from a significant portion of society. Try to look at it this way, the job is a fringe benefit of having something that is a concrete statement of your years of hard work and accomplishment: your degree. Do what it takes to graduate even if you are unsure of things to come in the future.

[Kejtar]

Yes. I recently graduated though I have not been working at a job yet that relates to my degree. Your college degree will be something that can't be taken away, you will have if for the rest of your life. You are a more educated, insightful and well rounded person because you went to college and having a bachelors degree will set you apart from a significant portion of society. Try to look at it this way, the job is a fringe benefit of having something that is a concrete statement of your years of hard work and accomplishment: your degree. Do what it takes to graduate even if you are unsure of things to come in the future.
Hmmmmm let me see if I can rephrase what you just said: it's the educational experience that counts but not the degree?

[Weasel]

Mines is/will be but it's in engineering. I'm not done yet and already have a Gov. job waiting for me, probably will start my master after grad. in Dec. though.

[bajacalal]

Hmmmmm let me see if I can rephrase what you just said: it's the educational experience that counts but not the degree?

No, obtaining your degree is the culmination and a tangble result of 4 years of hard work. The educational experience is very important, but it is the degree that is a statement to you and others that you stuck with it and produced results. My 4th year (ok 5th, it took me 5 years) was the hardest as I only had boring no-brainer classes left and I thought about quitting many times but I am glad I got my degree. My point was, graduating is important even if you don't find a job in your chose field right away.

[5-90]

Yes. I recently graduated though I have not been working at a job yet that relates to my degree. Your college degree will be something that can't be taken away, you will have if for the rest of your life. You are a more educated, insightful and well rounded person because you went to college and having a bachelors degree will set you apart from a significant portion of society. Try to look at it this way, the job is a fringe benefit of having something that is a concrete statement of your years of hard work and accomplishment: your degree. Do what it takes to graduate even if you are unsure of things to come in the future.

Debatable. I've talked to a few highly educated and reasonably intelligent college grads (that came out of school ten or fifteed years ago...) but I've talked to far more "intellectuals" in the Heinleinian definition - of an intellectual being an individual educated beyond his intelligence.

I don't mean to run down higher education - but when some damn fool gets a job that I'm more qualified for, I tend to wonder. I've also been told at several job interviews that I was "overqualified and undereducated" - meaning, yet again, that some yoyo right out of college with no work experience would get the gig, while I was perfectly and totally capable of doing the job and would not get it because I didn't have another scrap of paper.

So, I'm back in school. It took me this long to decide what I wanted to do - I'm gearing up for Mechanical Engineering with an Automotive emphasis. I couldn't see the point in getting something like a four-year degree in "Liberal Arts" or "General Education" that would, now, involve learning considerably less than I did in high school.

Sadly, since high schools out here are releasing people generally untaught (a combination of the "touchy-feely" lunatic fringe that doesn't want to fail someone because it might "damage their self-esteem," and the PC lunatic fringe pushing bilingual education...) we're ending up with college-educated idiots who are less educated than I was when I graduated high school (and I was ready to graduate a few years early already - due to a streak of autodidact...)

So, I would think that a degree in some relatively specialised field would be useful - but if all you can handle is LA or GE (or, Gawd forbid, PoliSci! Is there a more useless and misnamed area of study?) you should get your arse back into high school somewhere, and get your basic education done.

5-90

[Captain Ron]

...
Sadly, since high schools out here are releasing people generally untaught (a combination of the "touchy-feely" lunatic fringe that doesn't want to fail someone because it might "damage their self-esteem," and the PC lunatic fringe pushing bilingual education...) we're ending up with college-educated idiots who are less educated than I was when I graduated high school (and I was ready to graduate a few years early already - due to a streak of autodidact...)

So, I would think that a degree in some relatively specialised field would be useful - but if all you can handle is LA or GE ...

5-90

So is this a blanket application, or just your "in the workplace" experience? Not to bash, but if it's in the workplace, you see what you are qualified to see. I've hired and fired hundreds of degreed engineers over the years, and the pure ability to suceed is not always synonymous with a high school or college education.

I did not graduate High School or take the GED.

The last few on my resume. I started my own operation in 2000. We will do 15M this year in commercial sheetmetal fabrication.

http://www.trendtechnologies.com/ (http://www.trendtechnologies.com/)
VP Global Engineering.

http://www.sanmina-sci.com/ (http://www.sanmina-sci.com/)
VP Engineering, Enclosure Operations, Global.

http://www.flextronics.com/ (http://www.flextronics.com/)
Engineering Manager, Box Build Operations

http://www.telect.com/ (http://www.telect.com/)
Manufacturing Engineer

http://www.amada.com/ (http://www.amada.com/)
Automation Applications Consultant

http://www.genesis-systems.com/ (http://www.genesis-systems.com/)
Automation Applications Consultant

A host of Aerospace manufacturers...
Manufacturing Engineer

It does not matter what your field is. Generally to get into management, you'll need a degree.

To find a job, it just takes talking into it. To keep it, you just need to be better than those around you, or at least have a degree. :D

There are exceptions though. :D

--ron

[Ramsey]

No, obtaining your degree is the culmination and a tangble result of 4 years of hard work. The educational experience is very important, but it is the degree that is a statement to you and others that you stuck with it and produced results. My 4th year (ok 5th, it took me 5 years) was the hardest as I only had boring no-brainer classes left and I thought about quitting many times but I am glad I got my degree. My point was, graduating is important even if you don't find a job in your chose field right away.

4 years huh? bragging, you son of a..

[Captain Ron]

...
usually there is only so far that you will go with just the experience.

College is not a detour around the "Peter Principal." :D

--ron

[5-90]

So is this a blanket application, or just your "in the workplace" experience? Not to bash, but if it's in the workplace, you see what you are qualified to see. I've hired and fired hundreds of degreed engineers over the years, and the pure ability to suceed is not always synonymous with a high school or college education.

I did not graduate High School or take the GED.

The last few on my resume. I started my own operation in 2000. We will do 15M this year in commercial sheetmetal fabrication.

http://www.trendtechnologies.com/ (http://www.trendtechnologies.com/)
VP Global Engineering.

http://www.sanmina-sci.com/ (http://www.sanmina-sci.com/)
VP Engineering, Enclosure Operations, Global.

http://www.flextronics.com/ (http://www.flextronics.com/)
Engineering Manager, Box Build Operations

http://www.telect.com/ (http://www.telect.com/)
Manufacturing Engineer

http://www.amada.com/ (http://www.amada.com/)
Automation Applications Consultant

http://www.genesis-systems.com/ (http://www.genesis-systems.com/)
Automation Applications Consultant

A host of Aerospace manufacturers...
Manufacturing Engineer

It does not matter what your field is. Generally to get into management, you'll need a degree.

To find a job, it just takes talking into it. To keep it, you just need to be better than those around you, or at least have a degree. :D

There are exceptions though. :D

--ron


When did you graduate, anyhow? Not being a smartass - a valid question! I'm only 34, and I've noted a trend towards "dumbing down" in public primary education - it shows in the use of language, grammar/spelling/punctuation in writing, maths ability, understanding of basic sciences, and pretty much any other subject.

Paradoxically, schools around here are getting rid of the various "shop" classes (the only things that kept me interested and awake - I was doing something in class!) in favour of robotics and suchlike, economics, management, and what-have-you.

Not everyone can be a CEO, and some people just don't want to be a CEO. I don't. I'm highly intelligent, and baffled everyone by enjoying the idea of working in trades more than in management - and I still do. I don't mind designing something, as long as I get to build it afterwards.

I suppose it's more of a blanket application than anything else. While I tend to be asocial, I'm also an unabashed "people watcher" - I scan and pick up damn near everything around me (always have - it comes in handy...) and I notice things and file them for future reference. So, while I'd not really call it "research" or a "study," it's a definite trend.

Someone who dropped out in the eighth grade 15 years ago would probably be more "educated" than someone with a full high school education these days, if not adding in a two-year GE or LA degree.

What say you?

5-90

[Captain Ron]

....

What say you?

5-90

1980 Would have been my last year in High School. I was too busy installing antennas on F-86's under contract to Raytheon out at Pt Mugu, and watching the guys learn how to fly them remote control for Project Lobos to finish though. :D

Folks, getting a job, and getting what you want out of a job has, in reality, almost zero to do with your level of education. It has to do with your ability to produce.

Sure, maybe there is a "dumbing down" going on in education, generally speaking. What the hell does that have to do with personal initiative? If your lazy, and a dumbass, a college education isn't going to change that. You will.

If you do not want to be a CEO, then you lack drive. People need to come to terms with their expectations, work and live accordingly. Bitch about it? Your lot in working life? That's just throwing a spotlight on how college, if you did it, really didn't teach you much about reality.

College will not teach you how to make your own breaks. It will not prepare you for how your built up sense of intelligence just won't get you "all the way" to where you think you should be. It won't show you how to deal with those "problem" co-workers, managers, owners, or all the other people holding you down. It will not serve as a substitute for initiative, hard work, compromise, or help you to shed your "comfort level." It will not tell you what you are really talented at. It almost always will get you what you "think" and "present" yourself as, in life.

You know what? You learn everything you need to know to suceed in kindergarten. :D

Comfort level. Ever had an instructor tell you that you need to change jobs every 3 years? Try it. Forget where the job is, or who it is with.

Education. Get what you need. College does not have a lock on all the books in the world. You literally have anything you need to know a book or two away.

I think 99% of the natives here could benefit from a different perspective... one that comes from living in, say, the Maldives for 4 years. The waste of opportunity here is appalling. "Oh geez, I went to college for 4 years and my job sucks."

Guess what?

You were a loser by birth and environment. College didn't change a thing. :D

--ron

[Captain Ron]

...
I don't mind designing something, as long as I get to build it afterwards.
...

5-90

Concept for you that might be overlooked in college.

"Team Player."

:D

--ron

[Fergie]

No, college was not worth it. I still shovel dirt like a laborer, and work 70 plus hours a week.

Yes, college was worth it. I make more money than most straight out of college, have top notch benefits(FREE healthcare), love my job, and in about 5 years, I will have it made.

For my specific area though, and the company I work for, no college degree is needed, so again, it all depends.

Fergie

[wall04]

:D

Folks, getting a job, and getting what you want out of a job has, in reality, almost zero to do with your level of education. It has to do with your ability to produce.

Sure, maybe there is a "dumbing down" going on in education, generally speaking. What the hell does that have to do with personal initiative? If your lazy, and a dumbass, a college education isn't going to change that. You will.

If you do not want to be a CEO, then you lack drive. People need to come to terms with their expectations, work and live accordingly. Bitch about it? Your lot in working life? That's just throwing a spotlight on how college, if you did it, really didn't teach you much about reality.

College will not teach you how to make your own breaks. It will not prepare you for how your built up sense of intelligence just won't get you "all the way" to where you think you should be. It won't show you how to deal with those "problem" co-workers, managers, owners, or all the other people holding you down. It will not serve as a substitute for initiative, hard work, compromise, or help you to shed your "comfort level." It will not tell you what you are really talented at. It almost always will get you what you "think" and "present" yourself as, in life.

Education. Get what you need. College does not have a lock on all the books in the world. You literally have anything you need to know a book or two away.

--ron

Ron just nailed it. I have one engineering BS degree and another technical BS degree from a big 10 school and I will be starting an MBA this spring (hopefully). I knew that I wanted this education when I was in HS because that is where my interests are. The education will give you a head start but you can fall behind if you don't have a work ethic. Wonder why Ron's bringing in 15MM in revenue per year? Probably because he and his employees work their azzes off and have satisified customers. In my case, I got the education and then hit the floor to get the right experience. Now, I have a huge edge becase I can relate to everyone in the organization.

Nobody can take your education away from you. It may open some doors and will always work to your advantage with all else being equal. For example, I'm not a job hopper but I have no fear about quitting or getting laid off. I know I can just get another good paying job somewhere else.

Lastly, if you do get the education do not ever use it to look down on those that don't have it. You may find that they are more qualified to do your job than you are.

[the1jzahn]

One thing that should be looked at is the ratio of student loan to how much you will be making. If you student loan are "x" times higher than you make, this could cause problems. And seeing that so many people are going to college these days and getting a college degree, that college degree is the same as a high school degree of 15-20 years ago. (depending on your field of choice).

[CRASH]

I believe my degree and post grad work in biological sciences helped me land a NAXJA Director's post. YMMV.

[IntrepidXJ]

not sure if college was worth it.....i'm too lazy to find another job :D

[XJ Dreamin']

I believe my degree and post grad work in biological sciences helped me land a NAXJA Director's post. YMMV.

What's the pay for that position? Fringe benefits? Vacation? Healthcare? Retirement?

Just asking...I might want to try that (NOT!)


:D

[ScorpionBoy]

finish your degree.

i thought about driving truck around the time i had 3/4s of my undergrad work finished cause i was burning out. thankfully, i stuck it out. i am finishing my second degree now. i work for a large company and make decent money. sure, i am a minion in a cube but hope to break 6 figures before i am 45. stick to it!

[olivedrabcj7]

Wow. Great info.

I have talked to my dad about working for him and possibly running his business in the next 5-7 years when he decides he wants to retire. He basically said theres no way in hell he is going to hand over the keys to some 22 year old kid with no idea whats going on in that industry. (understandable). But at the same time he said when i graduate, if im still interested, he would put me to work and let me earn my way through his company starting in the service dept. making 12 bucks an hour. I would need to prove to him an understanding and ability to perform literally everything that goes on in the company.

I dont know if i want to do that or go out and try to find a job right out of school. I know that getting my foot in the door with his company has the potential 10 years from now for me to be making some serious money (generating over 2M in revenue annually on average). However, at the same time, I dont know if thats what I WANT to do. Im starting to see how doing something you like is the key to succeeding. If you dont like what you do, you probably wont do your best. Any thoughts?

[RichP]

Wow. Great info.

I have talked to my dad about working for him and possibly running his business in the next 5-7 years when he decides he wants to retire. He basically said theres no way in hell he is going to hand over the keys to some 22 year old kid with no idea whats going on in that industry. (understandable). But at the same time he said when i graduate, if im still interested, he would put me to work and let me earn my way through his company starting in the service dept. making 12 bucks an hour. I would need to prove to him an understanding and ability to perform literally everything that goes on in the company.

I dont know if i want to do that or go out and try to find a job right out of school. I know that getting my foot in the door with his company has the potential 10 years from now for me to be making some serious money (generating over 2M in revenue annually on average). However, at the same time, I dont know if thats what I WANT to do. Im starting to see how doing something you like is the key to succeeding. If you dont like what you do, you probably wont do your best. Any thoughts?


Get your degree and go into business for youself, not your daddys business either, YOURS. I'm having a tough time myself, been doing my own thing for the past 3 going on 4 years and may end up taking a normal job for someone else even though I dont want to. Oh well, up to pocono raceway for a service call..

[natcole299]

Folks, getting a job, and getting what you want out of a job has, in reality, almost zero to do with your level of education. It has to do with your ability to produce.

While there is some truth to this, getting an interview for good jobs often requires a degree. Without a degree your resume will get tossed out without a second look, unless you are fortunate enough to have somebody who can help get your foot in the door.

That being said, I think that much of the benefit of college, at least undergrad, comes from outside of class. I have a BS in Biology, but I think the things I learned from playing sports, meeting a wide variety of people, and juggling extracurricular activities with actually making it to classes are more valuable to me as a person.

The knowledge gained in college can be found elsewhere, but the experience is hard to duplicate.

[dphillips]

getting an interview for good jobs often requires a degree. Without a degree your resume will get tossed out without a second look, unless you are fortunate enough to have somebody who can help get your foot in the door.


Not always true!
I just finished a round of interviews for an opening. This was for an entry level position with the county for a treatment plant operator. I interviewed 8 people, three people with a BS in science. Sound like a perfect match right? The three with a BS had little to no practicle work experience and didn't even act like they needed a job. More importantly, I know they wouldn't stay long if I did hire them. (I wouldn't expect someone with a degree to stick around for an entry level job anyway.) Then I'd be short staffed again. So why waste my time.
I guess it all depends on your definition of a "good" job. It may not be the best salary, but it's a secure position w/benefits. No layoffs here. Oh well, I supose there are several ways to look at it. This is just mine.

[hadfield4wd]

I am also 34. Have 3 kids. When I didn't want to go to college my parents told me I can always go back to the trades after, but you typically (yes I know there are exceptions) will not be upper level management without the degree. I went. I have a business degree that I really do not use at this point. Companies typically want to train their own people anyway. I have had several jobs both in the trades and not. It does provide opportunities not previously, easily available. I know I'll never starve because I can go back to swinging the framing hammer if I need to.

I now have 8 years experience in sales I have switched companies a couple of times. The expereince I had looks great on a resume. I have been with CAT, Otis Elevator and my current employeer is Control Dynamics selling valves and systems. I have never strayed far from mechanical things and working with my hands on various equipment. I feel like I get the best of both worlds. It is all what you make of it like somebody earlier said. Overall I would not have had some of these opportunities without the education.

Matt

[5-90]

Sure, maybe there is a "dumbing down" going on in education, generally speaking. What the hell does that have to do with personal initiative? If your lazy, and a dumbass, a college education isn't going to change that. You will.

If you do not want to be a CEO, then you lack drive. People need to come to terms with their expectations, work and live accordingly. Bitch about it? Your lot in working life? That's just throwing a spotlight on how college, if you did it, really didn't teach you much about reality.

One good point - one not so much (IMO.)

Yes, there is a dumbing down in educations - for the reasons I stated. This damn well should stop - simply because it's going to spoil people who would otherwise be quite intelligent. We should also dispense with the "one size fits all" model we're running with - the world needs ditch-diggers, too; and not everyone is a mathematician (or going to otherwise excel in academe.)

As far as the other point - not wanting to be a CEO - I don't think that indicates a lack of drive. Sometimes, it's just a matter of not being interested. For instance, I never wanted to be rich. I just want to live comfortably doing something I enjoy doing, so I don't mind getting out of bed every morning. Lack of drive? Hardly - if I lacked drive, I'd not have done as much as I've done so far. Low expectations? Perhaps. But, I figure the world has enough millionaires, billionaires, and suchlike that I don't feel the need to add to the list. Get all the bills paid every month, go on vacation for about a month out of every year, and have a couple dozen K in the bank for emergencies is fine by me - I've got a good understanding of "you can't take it with you."

Hell, if I hit the lottery to-morrow, I'd still be driving a Jeep. Just a restomodded one. I've driven Ferraris and Porsches, and I'm not terribly impressed anyhow.

Is it a lack of intelligence on my part? Certainly not. Lack of drive? I don't think so. Low expectations? Perhaps - but I'm no yuppie, and I like working with my hands.

And, I wasn't talking about a "lack of teamwork" when I said I wanted to build something after I design it - it's my reward for sitting down and designing the thing in the first place. I understand greatly the value of teamwork - I just don't want to hold down a desk forever, y'know?

Take all of this as you will.

5-90

[Jeep914x4]

I say THESE DAYS a degree will only help you. Back in the day, you could get by just fine without even a highschool degree. Now a days it will be harder, not impossible but harder. I agree that experience is very very important. I have been working a full time job for a year now related to my BS in Management Information Systems.

Several of my classmates are still working at walgreens or looking for jobs. However, when we graduated I already had about 7 years experience in my field.

Now I make more money than my parents. :eeks1:

My brother in law, who is a lawyer, gets very upset that he makes less than I. The thing is I am damn good at what I do and have hands on experience backed by my education.

Not to mention the 5 and a half years I spent going to college were the best years of my life (so far). It was a hell of a ride...

[DaJudge]

It was definitely worth it. As has already been said, regardless of experience many employers want a degree.

Hopefully you have also taken advantage of the oppurtunity to broaden your horizons a bit.

[ScorpionBoy]

and hopefully, while you earn your degree, you realize that you have managed to master the art of educating yourself. at some point, you should have the realization that you can use alot of the formal study skillz to teach yourself whatever you need to know.

[5-90]

and hopefully, while you earn your degree, you realize that you have managed to master the art of educating yourself. at some point, you should have the realization that you can use alot of the formal study skillz to teach yourself whatever you need to know.

Half marks. Some of us are just born autodidacts (look it up...) and don't need to learn "study skills" or whatever else.

That was part of my problem in high school - I was ahead of the curve, and stayed there, because I was able to teach myself and retain far better than they expected me to. I stayed about two full years ahead of the system, without any particular effort...

5-90

[OT]

I believe my degree and post grad work in biological sciences helped me land a NAXJA Director's post. YMMV.
Why, because of all the sh*t we have to deal with?:D
I think my situation was just plain bad judgement on the part of the members.:shhh:

I am a math class short of an associates in General Studies.
Would the one class and a degree make me any happier?
Hell no.
Not since I became my own boss and am finally free of the rat race.
Now, I can concentrate on keeping myself, my family, and my customers happy.
Notice I didn't mention manager?

[ScorpionBoy]

Half marks. Some of us are just born autodidacts (look it up...) and don't need to learn "study skills" or whatever else.

That was part of my problem in high school - I was ahead of the curve, and stayed there, because I was able to teach myself and retain far better than they expected me to. I stayed about two full years ahead of the system, without any particular effort...

5-90

i understand what you are saying.

there is some formal training at university level that is irreplaceable.

[old_man]

My question is....how many jobs do you see out there that pay $150k without a degree?

[Beej]

Why, because of all the sh*t we have to deal with?:D
I think my situation was just plain bad judgement on the part of the members.:shhh:

I am a math class short of an associates in General Studies.
Would the one class and a degree make me any happier?
Hell no.
Not since I became my own boss and am finally free of the rat race.
Now, I can concentrate on keeping myself, my family, and my customers happy.
Notice I didn't mention manager? That's awesome you 10000 poster you. Next time I need something built for my XJ, I'll order it from you. Although a 100 lb item will probably cost me about 500 for shipping...

:D

[Pat]

My question is....how many jobs do you see out there that pay $150k without a degree?

plenty of people make more than that without a degree. chances are, they own their own business and/or have been in their field for a long time, maybe had some sort of connection, and are very good at what they do.

plenty of people make less than that with a degree.

it's obviously situational - there is no magic formula. i do think a degree opens doors that might otherwise stay closed...experience could do the same though.

personally, i think the opportunity to get into one's family business (if it's a good one and you are interested in it) is a great one. however, i have friends that have passed up that opportunity to do something entirely different. it really comes down to what you want to to, what you want to be, and what it will take to get there.

"it's all about who you know, not what you know"

[olivedrabcj7]

personally, i think the opportunity to get into one's family business (if it's a good one and you are interested in it) is a great one. however, i have friends that have passed up that opportunity to do something entirely different. it really comes down to what you want to to, what you want to be, and what it will take to get there.

"it's all about who you know, not what you know"
I'ts an RV dealership. I know its kept my dad stressed out all the time but in my opinion he doesnt deal with alot of situations in the best manner. He does it to himself. Anyway, I want to make money. Not boasting at all, just trying to reference the situation...Ive grown up in a fairly wealthy family and I'd like to provide that for myself and my family someday. I just dont see my business degree providing me much opportunity to make that kind of money in the next 20 years. Ive always said I was going to be in business for myself and I enjoy seeing the benefits of my efforts.

I sat down with my dad a while back and sort of discussed this and he said another option would be for him to sell the business when he retires, then support me (both with his knowledge of business ownership and financially) with whatever I decide to do in business of my own. Either way I realize I need other experiences to be successful so that may wait a while. Just really unsure of where Im headed and Im running out of time to make a decision.

[muduck18]

I dont know if thats what I WANT to do. Im starting to see how doing something you like is the key to succeeding. If you dont like what you do, you probably wont do your best. Any thoughts?
__________________

There is nothing better in my book than doing what I like to do...
I would like to run my own film/multimedia business.. I have some of the equipment...
and i do some video on the side.

I am currently a network engineer at a $300m company. I make good money, and I am able to support my wife and kid. Without the BS, I would not be able to do what I am doing now or make what I am making.

I went to school and in a concentrated study for data communications/networking. and I enjoy/don't hate doing it.

I have found that if you really enjoy somthing it can be too much if you try to make it your living.
but
You have to be able to get up every morning and go to work with a smile on your face and the abilty to get work done.

My degree was worth it because without it people, many people would not have respect for me.

One thing is for sure, if you don't finish what you started even more people will have less respect for you.

For 5 generations my family owned a business that started as a carriage shop in the 1800's turned into a hardware store/ plumbing service and a gas station.
4 years ago, my grandfather sold the building, because he worked to make all his 5 boys get some form of education and move on and do what they wanted to do. My dad is a school teacher, he makes $hit, but he loves every minute of it, and has for the past 17 years.


:lecture: no one can tell you what is worth it or not, you have to be the judge of that.

Life is a garden 'dig it!' (joe dirt)

[jcnoble]

My job doesnt pay 150K with a degree. Maybe I need to switch jobs.

[djblade311]

to hell with jobs n money....college helped me get drunk n laid more than any other time in my life.









oh, for the record....college is important because it helps you make MORE money in the long run but persistence pays off no matter what you do. YOu need money to get more chicks...and beer

[OT]

I know it doesn't apply to your life scenario, but I believe four years in any brach of the Armed Forces does more good for a person than the same amount of college ever will.
After that, one can use their GI Bill for the education they believe will give them the most advantage in life.
Not to mention, that person will be 1000% more qualified to decide their future than they were, four years prior, as a child.

[5-90]

I know it doesn't apply to your life scenario, but I believe four years in any brach of the Armed Forces does more good for a person than the same amount of college ever will.
After that, one can use their GI Bill for the education they believe will give them the most advantage in life.
Not to mention, that person will be 1000% more qualified to decide their future than they were, four years prior, as a child.

I think we have a winner!

However, don't just enlist with the idea of "making money for college" - you are subject to being called up for pretty much anything, and you'll want to make sure enlisting - along with the rotten hours and worse pay - is something you really want to do.

However, if you go in with your eyes open, you're all but guaranteed to learn quite a bit about yourself, and you'll know more about where your limits are than most other people - probably because you pushed quite a few of them farther out than they were four years before.

And, I honestly don't think anyone knows what they want to do with the rest of their lives at 18 - you're just grown up, and you're still figuring out how to act. At 22, you're going to be eminently more qualified.

Besides, if you've got a REMF job, you'll be able to take courses while you're in, and get most of your first year of college out of the way more or less at your leisure...

5-90

[yardape]

Random thoughts: You've recieved alot of good advice here from people who've been around the block and have experienced different levels of life and success. The only thing I have not read about in this thread is drive, confidence and the desire to do something positive with your life. Those three elements, not necessarily in that order in my opinion, will be the greatest determinant of where you end up. You sound like you're on the right track. There are alot of people your age who are clueless and not even discussing these issues or seeking advice. I read a study years ago that documented the lives of successful people. These people weren't wildly wealthy but lived well-rounded comfortable lives. Interestingly the thing that they all shared in common was the way that they handled major life setbacks. They all kept moving forward through those situations rather than becoming paralyzed by them. That was something to think about. Anyway, like I said, you're on the right track. Good luck in your persuits.

[woody]

I believe my degree and post grad work in biological sciences helped me land a NAXJA Director's post. YMMV.

Shush! you'll scare our next victims off!

[red91]

Shush! you'll scare our next victims off!

most already know better to begin with...:D

[pdharrin]

IMHO the degree will open the door and experience will get you hired over the other applicants. To get the experience while in school, find an internship (preferably with a company you may want to work for), they are are a great way to go, and that's how I landed my job a semester before graduating (of course contingent upon finishing). Don't forget, you will also get to meet a lot of girls in school, since the proportion of female students is steadily rising, and that's how I met my fiance. In the end, my profession requires a BS/BA to become certified, so it is a necessity.

Good luck!

[old_man]

The stats are that the difference between how much the average joe earns with and without a degree is roughly 4 times over a lifetime.

[ren]

So, let me get this straight: IF I actually bothered to go to college, take the 12 hours of basic studies that I need get the degree in (bachelor whatever the heck) aerospace maintence, then I could concievably make MORE than the $145,000 that I make now, while actually holding NO degree mind you, driving a truck, being MY own boss (notice the lack of the term "manager"), taking care of my family quite nicely, AND still be able to take a vacation WHEN I want, for as LONG as I want, and STILL have money in the bank? WOW! Maybe I should re-think this "higher education" thing. Then again, maybe not. I do belive that my "drive" to make it life has proven to be more than enough to achieve MY expextations, WITHOUT the need to be "driven to be a CEO". Not bad for being 35 years old, saying to hell with public school in the beginning of the 9th grade, and basically ignoring "higher education" because it is not worth it to me.
Basically, if you want to go to college, then go, but even in this "high tech" world, you can still make a VERY comfortable living and NOT be a player in the ratrace/ "I wanna be a CEO, or I ain't gonna work" world. Oh, well just do what you feel is right for your education and interest in life.
End anti-higher education rant. (personal feelings and happiness with MY place in life, other peoples opinion of my life be damned.)

[SCW]

So, let me get this straight: IF I actually bothered to go to college, take the 12 hours of basic studies that I need get the degree in (bachelor whatever the heck) aerospace maintence, then I could concievably make MORE than the $145,000 that I make now.....
End anti-higher education rant. (personal feelings and happiness with MY place in life, other peoples opinion of my life be damned.)


I think he used the word "stats". Use $12 of that $145/year and buy a statistics textbook that will explain "averages".

In my case I worked in the construction industry till an accident forced me back to school. Now I make slightly more than I would have in construction, but have much better benifits and long-term growth and security. I also have a lot of debt from getting through a BS and grad school with 4 kids-

[Fish'nCarz]

My BS was the very best 4 years of my life, according to several old and dear friends. I don't actually remember a lot of it. It was the '70's . . . .beyond that it gets a little foggy.

[IslanderOffRoad]

I just graduated college, got my degree in business administration... it was definately worth it. I had a good job within a month, and I'm in LA. I'm looking forward to going back for my masters though.

[XJ_ranger]

God I hope so...
I have 30,000 in debts to The Man already... and another year to pay for after this...

[shortxjdoug]

God I hope so...
I have 30,000 in debts to The Man already... and another year to pay for after this...

i do too, considering my dream is to go into business for myself anyways when i get out of school

[Root Moose]

If I have two candidates in front of me that are more or less equivalent I will go with the one that has a degree versus one that did not complete a degree.

Why?

Because the one with the degree has the intestinal fortitude to get the job done and not bail when things get "tough".

School is bull shit. So is the work place a lot of times. Deal with it and get your degree.

[WayneXJ]

[QUOTE=Root Moose]
Because the one with the degree has the intestinal fortitude to get the job done and not bail when things get "tough".
QUOTE]

You can tell that by looking at a piece of paper? :wstupid:

[mavinwy]

Get your degree, no matter what dicipline it is in.

I had an Associates in Health Science at the same time my wife got her bachelors. I was working as an EMT, and hated the job...but new I could go to college when she went to work....doing the trade off thing. We moved to where she could get a job, but there was no 4 year college there.

Well, about that time I blew my knee out and went to work setting up computers for a state agency. Even having the AS degree got me an interview.

Took another 10 years 'til I finally finished my BS (last year) in MIS. Doing classes as I could around work and a family. Some were correspondence, some were internet, and some were at the "remote" campus. It became important to me to finsh.

If you can do it now, with only 1 year remaining...I'd say go for it and finish. Even if you go into another field after grad. It is only like 55% of people that actually work in their degree field.....

Jim

[91G-Dub]

Best 7 years of my life!

BS & MBA.

[Fish'nCarz]

Best 7 years of my life!

BS & MBA.

Best two years of my life!

Being a sophmore!

[detailbarn]

this is funny reading this , I'm actually going back to school to get my associates degree in Business. The only reason I'm getting it is because it's required by all insurance company for damage appraisers which is my desired position. What's really irritating is they do not require a specific degree just a degree. I have all the specific certifications for this positions already but no one will hire me without the degree even though I know more then most of the current adjusters out there. Whats really funny is I currently run a power wash company and last year I made $75,000 for myself with that business, as a damage appraiser I'll never make more then $60,000 so I make more without the degree and by getting the degree I'll be over qualified for alot of positions. The only reason I'm doing the switch is because I have a bad back that can't keep up with the demands of physical labor, but I will be keeping the business running with a couple of employees and I plan to make $25,000 a year from it when I step away from the day to day, so with the planed $50,000 I'll make working for an insurance company I'll be back up to the $75,000 I'm currently at but I'll have two jobs. So I personally think a degree is relative to your needs and desires in life.

[Fish'nCarz]

this is funny reading this , I'm actually going back to school to get mx as"lciates degree in Btsindps. The only reason I'm getting it is because it's required by all insurance company for damage appraistps which is my desired position. What's really irritating is they do not require a specific degree just a degree. I have all thd*specific certifications for this positions already but no one will hire me without the degree even though I know more then most of the current adjusters ott tdre. Whats really funny is I currently run a power wash company and last year I made $75,000 for myself with that business, as a damage appraiser I'll never make more then $60,000 so I make more without the degree and bx ge¤ting the degree I'll be`lver qualified for alot of positions. The only reason I'm doing the switch is because I have a bad back that can't keep up with the dem
hds of physical labor, but I will be keeping the business running with a couple of employeer an I plan to make $25,000 a year from it when I step away from the day to day, so with the planed $50,000 I'll make working for an insurance company I'll be backtp to the $75,000 I'm currently at but I'll have two jobs. So I personally think a degree is relative to your needs and deshreshn life.

Check out:

http://www.richdad.com/

[Atl XJ]

I hated school so I dropped out of college when I was 20. I worked my ass off for a few years and never made much headway. I soon realized the merit of a college degree so I sucked it up and went back and got my bachelors in marketing. Now, I don't have to do manual labor anymore, make a hell of a lot more money, and actually like my job. It really sucked going back, but it was totally worth it.

[Atl XJ]

Wow, this thread sucks. There are some real know it alls on here that think they know everything. :dunce:

[IslanderOffRoad]

this is funny reading this , I'm actually going back to school to get my associates degree in Business. The only reason I'm getting it is because it's required by all insurance company for damage appraisers which is my desired position. What's really irritating is they do not require a specific degree just a degree. I have all the specific certifications for this positions already but no one will hire me without the degree even though I know more then most of the current adjusters out there. Whats really funny is I currently run a power wash company and last year I made $75,000 for myself with that business, as a damage appraiser I'll never make more then $60,000 so I make more without the degree and by getting the degree I'll be over qualified for alot of positions. The only reason I'm doing the switch is because I have a bad back that can't keep up with the demands of physical labor, but I will be keeping the business running with a couple of employees and I plan to make $25,000 a year from it when I step away from the day to day, so with the planed $50,000 I'll make working for an insurance company I'll be back up to the $75,000 I'm currently at but I'll have two jobs. So I personally think a degree is relative to your needs and desires in life.

I'm an adjuster for Farmers, its a great job, I play with wrecked cars all day. Any questions about it feel free to ask.

[guzzirider]

80s degree in geology from U Wyoming did a stink in the AF, worked in finance for 4 years, have been in Fed LE for last 18, A degree opens doors. I needed it for my AF commission after that no one ever checked

[riverfever]

As a teacher I didn't have much of a choice in the matter.

I am not happy with the pay scale of my field. I think it blows that at 6 years in my district, I have maxed out on our salary schedule. I make the same this year that I made last year (just under mid 30's). The only way I can move up is to get 15 hours. Each year my state assessment results are higher than they were with the previous years special education teacher and yet that asshat could be making more than me simply b/c he/she has more "education" (and I use that term loosely). I see a lot of sh!tty teachers that don't know how to reach/motivate students (special or not). I'm beginning to wonder if teachers shouldn't be held more accountable to a merit pay system.

Rant off.

[Fish'nCarz]

As a teacher I didn't have much of a choice in the matter.

I am not happy with the pay scale of my field. I think it blows that at 6 years in my district, I have maxed out on our salary schedule. I make the same this year that I made last year (just under mid 30's). The only way I can move up is to get 15 hours. Each year my state assessment results are higher than they were with the previous years special education teacher and yet that asshat could be making more than me simply b/c he/she has more "education" (and I use that term loosely). I see a lot of sh!tty teachers that don't know how to reach/motivate students (special or not). I'm beginning to wonder if teachers shouldn't be held more accountable to a merit pay system.

Rant off.

Just talk to a Florida teacher about merit pay and related stuff. Or the parents. Sounds good on paper, but not so much when you are on the ground.

Good teachers are worth good money. There's no doubt about it.

[Fergie]

All well and good for all you old farts here, but take into acoXXXX the age of Olive.

Some of you farts that are espousing no education are from a completely different generation, and your reasoning/experience isnt quite as pertinent as you think.

30 and over need not apply.

My father has no degree, barely has his GED. Dropped out to fight in Vietnam, wandered the country for 17 years in a bus as a hippie, then taught himself computers, starting with a Tandy 3000 in 1982. Did quite well for himself. Now, I make more than he does after 25 years, and I've only been out of college for less than a year.

BS and BA are the new HS degrees and GEDs.

Fergie

[SCW]

BS and BA are the new HS degrees and GEDs.


X2 billion

Many technical degrees such as Engineering are considering not allowing engineers to be eligible for professional licensure without a graduate degree. That means the BS in engineering would only get you in the door, no PE license till the Masters.

[RVA16v]

Im starting to see how doing something you like is the key to succeeding. If you dont like what you do, you probably wont do your best. Any thoughts?
It truly is the key as far as Im concerned. I have a degree in Animal Science (Biological Timing to be exact) I Love working with, and studying animals...BUT I enjoyed working on cars more...so here I am, 8 years later factory trained in VW, Audi, Mazda and soon to be Honda...I never have to worry about finding a job...I could move anywhere in the US and get a job in a day. Most importantly, I have fun at work, I work with a lot of sincerely good people (techs anyway, service writers and managers are the devil) the days go by fast and i still bring home a very liveable salary. wouldnt trade it for anything. Is getting your degree worth it? Yes. Education can never hurt even if it doesnt apply to your future career, just having a degree in anything looks good on a resume. thats my $.02

[Gary E]

I have a BS in ME from a good school. I don't currently use it, my work is completly unrelated, I have my own small service business. I never even interviewed for an engineering job, come to think of it I have never officially interviewed for any job :) People have either offered me jobs or I made them up myself.

Still I would do it all the same again, college was a great experiance and I don't regret doing it or all the work. I sure am glad its over now though :)

[XJGrl]

Getting a degree in SOMETHING seems worth it -- but I know plenty of people who have managed without. I got my degree in Forestry simply because I figured 4 years in the woods would be a damn nice way to go through college -- and it was. In the end, I found that it doesnt really matter WHAT your degree is in (for many occupations) -- but rather just the fact that you have the fortitude to stick to the program. I am now getting my employer to pay for my MS -- which will hopefully make me more marketable for moving on to a better position.

It depends. (thats all I learned in college)

XJGrl

[x99j]

I got a bsba in 1995 in marketing. my current job does not require a degree. i'm glad i got it though, because most people i work with do not have a degree, and it gives me a little edge. but in my opinion a degree does not equate weather you do good in life or not. i think passion and good common sense in what you do goes alot farther in your career than a degree. (exceptions are med school, lawyer,cpa etc...)
also i have known some very educated people that could not think through real life situations. likewise i know some people with virtually no education who seem to have a real knowledge how the world works and how to get ahead and survive in the world.

[490Chaser]

80s degree in geology from U Wyoming did a stink in the AF, worked in finance for 4 years, have been in Fed LE for last 18, A degree opens doors. I needed it for my AF commission after that no one ever checked


Just finished my 4 (5) year Atmospheric Science degree from U-dub!... I'm now down at Keesler, AFB going to Weather Officer's Course. Working in the field that I have loved my whole life, worked my but off to get a degree in, and knowing that am doing quite well in (class ranking) is the best feeling in the world!

Get a degree from a good school in what you want to do. Do the research and go to the best school you can afford! While not necessary for success, with good planning and better advice (get a mentor!!!) a degree can make opportunities happen!


Griff