Camera guys

[Jump This]

My wife wasn't at all interested in wheelin'......not until we went to Moab and she got to take pictures of the Jeeps and the area. Whenever it got more tippy than she wanted she just got out and took pictures!
And she loved it!
So now she wants a nicer camera for Christmas.
She has no training or experience and is not too great on manuals (I normally read up for her and answer questions as she needs.)
Now for the question, what would be a great 'starter' camera for her.
We are talking digital here, $500~$1000 maybe..

Rick

[lesslimited]

In that price range this would be my ideal camera http://www.amazon.com/Nikon-10-2MP-Digital-18-135mm-Zoom-Nikkor/dp/B000HGIWN4/ref=sr_1_6?ie=UTF8&s=photo&qid=1226721792&sr=1-6

[DrMoab]

In that price range this would be my ideal camera http://www.amazon.com/Nikon-10-2MP-Digital-18-135mm-Zoom-Nikkor/dp/B000HGIWN4/ref=sr_1_6?ie=UTF8&s=photo&qid=1226721792&sr=1-6

Thats what I have and love it.

Honestly I am not really brand loyal with cameras but I would stick with either Nikon or Canon.

Go to a shop that has them both and play with them. See what fits you the best. Some like Canons buttons and layout. Some like Nikon.

Either way with modern technology you are going to get a great camera either way.

[XbajajeepX]

Rick, have her go to a store and hold/play with a few... Then decided on what she likes best... You can't go wrong with either Canon or Nikon...

[Weasel]

Pentax has a SLR for 700 that is nice.

[Wallymander]

Is there a collective non liking of Fuji? I love my FinePix SLR

[DrMoab]

Is there a collective non liking of Fuji? I love my FinePix SLR

Fuji and Pentax are kind of in the same boat. Just not a lot of third party support. That doesn't mean they don't take good pictures.

[sjkimmel99]

I've got a Nikon D70 and I wish it were a little smaller sometimes. The Canon Rebel line is a bit smaller.

Either way they're both good brands. Don't let the pixel count make that much difference, unless you plan on making posters even something in the 6 mp range is more than fine for sharing on the web or getting prints made at Costco, Wallgreens or wherever.

With Nikon you can use lenses going back to the auto-focus film camera era (one reason I stuck with Nikon, had a handful of lenses from film days) so you can get those pretty inexpensively if there's any interest in expanding, say with a 400 telephoto.

[IntrepidXJ]

I really like my Canon Rebel XSi

[gone postal]

Well, I'm an SLR guy, but wouldn't recommend that as a "starter" camera - especially if it's going to be used for wheeling trips, family photos, etc. SLR's are great, but then there is always the need / want for new lenses, etc and the cost can get pretty damn crazy.

I think your best bet is more of an "advanced" point n shoot. I'm a HUGE Canon fan, so I would strongly recommend the Canon G10. I haven't used one, but my friend had an older model (G7?) and it was an awesome camera. The specs on the G10 are very nice. More megapixels than you'd ever need, 5x optical zoom (wish it were a little more, but the awesome part is that this is a "wide angle" lens - 28mm in film talk - most point n shoots are in the 32-40 range - nice to have that lil extra bit of coverage for landscapes, etc). A lot more "nerdy" specs, but I won't bore you with that. I think it goes for $500 or so at brick and mortar places.

If you decide you REALLY want to get her a more advanced camera that she can "grow" into - I'm selling my Canon 40d - no lens - for $750... :laugh:
(really more camera than she'll probably ever need though)

[MT Mike]

Check this one out: *link* (http://cgi.ebay.com/Canon-EOS-Digital-REBEL-XSi-450D-Camera-4-LENS-8GB-NEW_W0QQitemZ290275046500QQcmdZViewItemQQptZDigita l_Cameras?hash=item290275046500&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=72%3A1234%7C66%3A2%7C65%3A12%7C39%3A1%7C 240%3A1308)

Great package deal, plus paypal gives you an extra $100 off (until black Friday). My father in law just got this same package. I can't wait to check it out (borrow it for a wheeling trip).

[DrMoab]

Check this one out: *link* (http://cgi.ebay.com/Canon-EOS-Digital-REBEL-XSi-450D-Camera-4-LENS-8GB-NEW_W0QQitemZ290275046500QQcmdZViewItemQQptZDigita l_Cameras?hash=item290275046500&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=72%3A1234%7C66%3A2%7C65%3A12%7C39%3A1%7C 240%3A1308)

Great package deal, plus paypal gives you an extra $100 off (until black Friday). My father in law just got this same package. I can't wait to check it out (borrow it for a wheeling trip).

Has he got it yet?

I hate to be the dude to ruin it but that isn't the best deal. Tameron lenses are junk for the most part and all the other goodies a package deal like that has in it are pretty cheap.

I know because I got taken for the same ride. There are about five places on the ebay that I won't do business with. Pixis camera is one of them. Sunshine electronics is another. This is where I got my Nikon from and it was a nightmare from the second I put the order in.

I found out after doing a little research that you can come up with almost as good a deal from other more reputable dealers. You might pay a little more, or have to pay shipping but you will get much greater service.

Also a good rule of thumb. IF you are going to get a package deal, MAKE SURE you get quality glass. Ask Handlebars about this. A crappy lens can make a $3000.00 camera seem almost worthless. It's all about the glass.

[XJ_Jim]

Rebel XTI
http://www.amazon.com/Canon-Digital-10-1MP-18-55mm-3-5-5-6/dp/B000I1ZWRC/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=photo&qid=1226903815&sr=1-1

[Weasel]

Well, I'm an SLR guy, but wouldn't recommend that as a "starter" camera - especially if it's going to be used for wheeling trips, family photos, etc. SLR's are great, but then there is always the need / want for new lenses, etc and the cost can get pretty damn crazy.

I think your best bet is more of an "advanced" point n shoot.

I would say the exact opposite. I hate point and shoots and the pictures are no were near as good as a SLR. I would take my SLR any day of the week or a compact. And yeah they can get spendy if you buy a dozen different lens or not it you don't. The picture quality is well worth it. Oh and the new Pentax cameras take any lens they have ever made, auto focus may not work with all models though. Canons probably do as well.

[IXNAYXJ]

The D80 that was posted would be a fantastic camera. I shoot a D70 that I bought used for a song and have been nothing but pleased with it. Don't let the complexity of an SLR scare you, you can shoot them just like a point and shoot if you want.

-----Matt-----

[MT Mike]

Has he got it yet?

I hate to be the dude to ruin it but that isn't the best deal. Tameron lenses are junk for the most part and all the other goodies a package deal like that has in it are pretty cheap.

I know because I got taken for the same ride. There are about five places on the ebay that I won't do business with. Pixis camera is one of them. Sunshine electronics is another. This is where I got my Nikon from and it was a nightmare from the second I put the order in.

I found out after doing a little research that you can come up with almost as good a deal from other more reputable dealers. You might pay a little more, or have to pay shipping but you will get much greater service.

Also a good rule of thumb. IF you are going to get a package deal, MAKE SURE you get quality glass. Ask Handlebars about this. A crappy lens can make a $3000.00 camera seem almost worthless. It's all about the glass.

He actually decided to go with a slightly different package last night at the last minute. *updated link* (http://cgi.ebay.com/CANON-EOS-Rebel-XSi-450D-Digital-Camera-2-IS-lens-16gb_W0QQitemZ140277796700QQcmdZViewItemQQptZDigit al_Cameras?hash=item140277796700&_trksid=p4295.c0.m299&_trkparms=240%3A1308) He decided that he wanted the image stabilization lenses since he photographs a lot of sports (wrestling and baseball). Hopefully "getitdigital" is a decent retailer and doesn't screw him over.

[gone postal]

I would say the exact opposite. I hate point and shoots and the pictures are no were near as good as a SLR. I would take my SLR any day of the week or a compact. And yeah they can get spendy if you buy a dozen different lens or not it you don't. The picture quality is well worth it. Oh and the new Pentax cameras take any lens they have ever made, auto focus may not work with all models though. Canons probably do as well.

Yeah, but the advanced "point n shoots" such as the G10 are closing that gap between SLR photos and non-SLR photos. The G10 in particular has the new Digic IV processor and is 15mp - same stats as my 50d (although there are differences between the two - Canon isn't going to shoot themselves in the foot). Point is, it'll take amazing photos, not break the bank and most importantly, not be a burden. I know there have been several times when on vacation that I have regretted lugging around a camera bag on my back that's stuffed w/ my extra batteries, flash, two lenses, etc while ALSO carrying my DSLR around my neck. Nothing quite screams "tourist" like that!!! I know I have wished that I had a "point n shoot" that could go from 28-200mm w/out having to swap lenses, etc, but like you, I also prefer the picture quality and manual control that a DSLR offers. I'm just saying that there are those moments...

[gone postal]

He actually decided to go with a slightly different package last night at the last minute. *updated link* (http://cgi.ebay.com/CANON-EOS-Rebel-XSi-450D-Digital-Camera-2-IS-lens-16gb_W0QQitemZ140277796700QQcmdZViewItemQQptZDigit al_Cameras?hash=item140277796700&_trksid=p4295.c0.m299&_trkparms=240%3A1308) He decided that he wanted the image stabilization lenses since he photographs a lot of sports (wrestling and baseball). Hopefully "getitdigital" is a decent retailer and doesn't screw him over.

Image Stabilization does NOT help with sports photography. It's sole purpose is to counteract the photographer's movements (ie - hand shaking). When shooting sports, you want the shutter speed to be fast enough to stop the action so that your subject isn't blurred. When your shutter speed is set fast enough to do that, the little bit of motion that is transmitting through your hand to the camera is moot - the shutter is too quick. Just figured I'd let you know so that he doesn't spend money on somethign that isn't going to benefit his needs. For sports photography, he'll need the fastest lenses he can afford to buy. He could probably get away w/ an f/4 for baseball during the day (f/2.8 at night) and although I've never shot wrestling, most gyms are poorly lit, so he's going to want an f/2.8 for that (and more than likely an add-on flash). Looking at almost a grand for any lens in that range - sports photography is a very expensive hobby, but luckily sports aren't going anywhere anytime soon, so there is no need to rush out and buy everything at once. He'll learn the ins & outs and can slowly build up his collection of equipment.

[Wallymander]

I love my SLR, though im an avid nature and scene photographer.
I bought an inexpensive ($100) point and shooter as a backup camera and one to use for potentially dirty shots like working on the jeep (Greasy parts pics) or while wheeling where theres mud, water or something that could potentially cause a loss of camera.
IMHO if you want a good picture that you may very well want to frame, you need a camera with manual focus options and a viewfinder. Not just an lcd screen on the back. But thats just MY opinion.

[DrMoab]

He actually decided to go with a slightly different package last night at the last minute. *updated link* (http://cgi.ebay.com/CANON-EOS-Rebel-XSi-450D-Digital-Camera-2-IS-lens-16gb_W0QQitemZ140277796700QQcmdZViewItemQQptZDigit al_Cameras?hash=item140277796700&_trksid=p4295.c0.m299&_trkparms=240%3A1308) He decided that he wanted the image stabilization lenses since he photographs a lot of sports (wrestling and baseball). Hopefully "getitdigital" is a decent retailer and doesn't screw him over.

He will be much happier with the Canon lenses.

Don't know about getitdigital. With ebay you never know. I didn't get screwed over really, it just took them almost a month to get my stuff to me and when I would call they would just give me the run around. In the end I found out that Nikon had a recall on my camera and they had to ship new ones to the retailers. All they would have to have said is just that but it was always some lame excuse.

[Ghost]

My wife wasn't at all interested in wheelin'......not until we went to Moab and she got to take pictures of the Jeeps and the area. Whenever it got more tippy than she wanted she just got out and took pictures!
And she loved it!
So now she wants a nicer camera for Christmas.
She has no training or experience and is not too great on manuals (I normally read up for her and answer questions as she needs.)
Now for the question, what would be a great 'starter' camera for her.
We are talking digital here, $500~$1000 maybe..

Rick

Being involved in photography for the last 25+ years I can offer a lot of help here. The advice of going to a store is a good one except a lot of camera shops have shut down these days. If you have a Ritz camera in a mall around you I'd take her there and let her feel out the different cameras. If it is an SLR that you decide on stick with Cannon or Nikon. I prefer Cannon for a couple reasons. One is the IS technology that they started in the late 90's with video cameras and binoculars. If its a point and shoot she wants then I would look at Olympus also. The other reason I'm a Canon fan is when they decided to build auto focus cameras they started over. They increased the size of the opening where the lens mounts which therefore let more light in. Means you can make more expensive faster lenses that can operate in lower light levels. To some it does not matter but to a others it was a blessing. I love the rebel line it is very user friendly. Let em know if you need any help with this it is something I'm fairly familiar with. I have yet to get one of the digital slr's yet but will be doing so in the future. I still use film SLR's that I have had for many years.

[Jump This]

One feature she wants is multiple shots of a fast moving target.
Mostly motorcycle jumping shots or high speed dune buggie run stuff.
It drives her crazy every time she wants to take multiple shots and the
camera is too slow to recover.
We will be heading to a Ritz in a couple of weeks and start looking...

[Ghost]

One feature she wants is multiple shots of a fast moving target.
Mostly motorcycle jumping shots or high speed dune buggie run stuff.
It drives her crazy every time she wants to take multiple shots and the
camera is too slow to recover.
We will be heading to a Ritz in a couple of weeks and start looking...

Look at fps drives on the slr's. No point and shoot can compare to the Frames Per Second of an slr. All of mine are in the 4.5 - 5 FPS. I highly recomend Canon over Nikon if you are starting fresh with the slr lines. The cannon's have some better features and have faster lenses. Most of the newer slr's have "modes" for specific types of photography. IE: sports, portature, landscape, and auto are some common ones. Let me know if you have any other questions feel free to let me know.

[GhostDakota]

No need for me to chime in, it's all been discussed lol. Nikon or Canon. Go to a store. Hold it. Play with the functions. Turn it on and off a bunch of times. See what feels best.

[GhostDakota]

Look at fps drives on the slr's. No point and shoot can compare to the Frames Per Second of an slr. All of mine are in the 4.5 - 5 FPS. I highly recomend Canon over Nikon if you are starting fresh with the slr lines. The cannon's have some better features and have faster lenses. Most of the newer slr's have "modes" for specific types of photography. IE: sports, portature, landscape, and auto are some common ones. Let me know if you have any other questions feel free to let me know.

That's not true. Nikon and Canon have nearly equal glass and the technology of their bodies are similar as well, especially in the prosumer level.

A Nikkor 50 1.4 can be had for $200 used, or $250-$300 new. That's FAST glass.... The 50 1.8 can be had for $75 used and $100 new. That's still fast glass!

My old, outdated D70s does 3 FPS which is not bad. And, my old, outdated D2x does 5 FPS @ 12MP and 8 FPS @ 6.8 MP in HSC mode.

Here's a great website btw for comparisons.. side by side link is here:
http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/sidebyside.asp

[DrMoab]

A Nikkor 50 1.4 can be had for $200 used, or $250-$300 new. That's FAST glass.... The 50 1.8 can be had for $75 used and $100 new. That's still fast glass!

I've even had a few Nikon guys tell me they prefer the 1.8 lens anyway.

[GhostDakota]

Exactly. I prefer the 1.8 since the DOF isn't so small.

[KingOfTheHill]

Nikon D90 if you have the coin... little over 1g but has "Live View" and a biggie is the new "HD Video" it also does... and it does it PRETTY well too.. so if there is a video moment you can capture it.. no charging 2 things, carrying 2 things, or shuffling around to put down the camera to get the camcorder ect...

Now if you want a good Bang for the buck DSLR... go look at the Nikon D80... FANTASTIC camera and even in "Auto" mode it takes amazing photos. 1 cool thing with Nikon is the "?" key... if your scrolling around and ever wonder what something does... Just push that button and it will give you a brief description... like carrying a manual with you all the time and its put in simple easy to read ENGLISH.

Goodluck.

JOe

[Ghost]

That's not true. Nikon and Canon have nearly equal glass and the technology of their bodies are similar as well, especially in the prosumer level.

A Nikkor 50 1.4 can be had for $200 used, or $250-$300 new. That's FAST glass.... The 50 1.8 can be had for $75 used and $100 new. That's still fast glass!

My old, outdated D70s does 3 FPS which is not bad. And, my old, outdated D2x does 5 FPS @ 12MP and 8 FPS @ 6.8 MP in HSC mode.

Here's a great website btw for comparisons.. side by side link is here:
http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/sidebyside.asp

No, I am not wrong. You either did not read what I said or do not know that glass is not the deciding factor of speed. The f-number or speed of the lens is determined but the size of the hole in the aperture vs the lens focal length. By have large lens they have larger holes and therefore faster lenses. Canon use to make a 50mm f1.0. There fast line also included an 85mm f1.2, a 135mm f2.0, and a 200mm f2.0. After looking at the site they now have a 24mm f1.4. All designed after the new larger lens mount and larger diameter glass was used in the eos system. All very expensive and made for sports type photography. Also the FPS is nto the only deciding factor with digital cameras. SOme may have 3, 4, or 5fps rates but stop to right the images after a few seconds. If it is fast images you wnat then you need to also check out which cameras have the fastes write times for the largest amount of bursts. I can shoot a 36exp roll of film in 8 seconds. Most digitals can only shoot bursts of 10 - 15 images before the stop and have to write the images to disk. Usually taking more time then the action you are photographing.

[GhostDakota]

You're wrong by saying Canon lenses are better than Nikon. I shoot Nikon for my digital and Canon for my film. I had a Rebel XTi for a few months a couple years ago as a backup. I should know. The differences are so diminutive that to 99% of the people out there, it doesn't matter. FWIW: The buffer on my D2x, in Nikon's RAW (NEF) format is from 15-28 images. And higher than that in JPG.

Have you ever shot Nikon or you prefer Canon just because?

[Ghost]

You're wrong by saying Canon lenses are better than Nikon. I shoot Nikon for my digital and Canon for my film. I had a Rebel XTi for a few months a couple years ago as a backup. I should know. The differences are so diminutive that to 99% of the people out there, it doesn't matter. FWIW: The buffer on my D2x, in Nikon's RAW (NEF) format is from 15-28 images. And higher than that in JPG.

Have you ever shot Nikon or you prefer Canon just because?

I did not say they were better. Do you not read? I said they had some that were faster and they redesigned there entire line new instead of relying on old technology. Which is why I stayed with Canon. I have shot with Nikon, Hassablad, Canon, Leica, Toyo, Zone VI, Olympus, Pentax, Graphic, and several other off the wall brands of cameras in several different formats. I never said one was better then the other. The nuber of pixles will determine the difference in quality way before a lens will.

[GhostDakota]

I did not say they were better. Do you not read? I said they had some that were faster and they redesigned there entire line new instead of relying on old technology. Which is why I stayed with Canon. I have shot with Nikon, Hassablad, Canon, Leica, Toyo, Zone VI, Olympus, Pentax, Graphic, and several other off the wall brands of cameras in several different formats. I never said one was better then the other. The nuber of pixles will determine the difference in quality way before a lens will.

When you say one brand has better features over the other, that usually means you're saying it's better:

I highly recomend Canon over Nikon if you are starting fresh with the slr lines. The cannon's have some better features and have faster lenses.

But if that's not what you meant, so be it, lol. That's how I took it.

And unrelated.. did you see the digital versus film test? It was on some British show and I forget where it is. Trying to find the link now...

[Ghost]

And unrelated.. did you see the digital versus film test? It was on some British show and I forget where it is. Trying to find the link now...

Missed that one. I dont have any cable atm. I did read an artile recently that compared the resolution of film vs digital and what mp is needed to duplicate resolution of film and that to duplicate the color saturation the mp is higher. Did that make any sence? I sometimes have trouble communicating my thoughts on here. Can tell? It was a very intresting read.

[Handlebars]

Rick, disregard all of the "fast lens" talk. Only a well trained photographer can extract what an f1.2 lens has to offer. Shooting at f1.2 will give you a depth
of focus measured in quarters of an inch. Most jeeping photos will look better with the larger DOF that you are stuck with by using cheaper lenses.
Understand that some of the most breathtakingly dramatic photos are made because of the ability to make almost everything in the frame blurry,
but usually these are not jeeping photos.


Here is an example of shooting without regard to the short DOF at smaller apretures. Sorry that this photo is so big, it is straight out of the camera at the smallest size it offers:
http://www.fototime.com/79F22A95B5D9DF8/orig.jpg

You can probably pick out the one bun that it focused on, everything else is blurred due to the short DOF from shooting it at f3.4. I was trying to get a
photo of the people, not the buns, this may hint at the potential problems of shooting with much faster pro level lenses at wider apertures.
BTW, a Canon 85mm f1.2 lens is $1800!

Does Bonnie want to shoot a DSLR (where you compose through an optical viewfinder), or does she like holding the camera at an arm's length and
composing with an LCD? Some DSLR's have easier to use "live view" modes where you use the LCD as a viewfinder. Olympus has a DSLR with a
flip out & turn LCD like you see on some compact digital cameras. It is supposed to be a smaller camera than most consumer DSLRs, but it also has a smaller sensor.
Take a look at any of Jared (xjblue's) pictures, that sensor in his hands takes fine photos!

[GhostDakota]

I just ordered my 50mm 1.8 :-D I was going to do the 1.4 but I didn't want that shallow DOF. The 1.8 should be here by Saturday!!!


Missed that one. I dont have any cable atm. I did read an artile recently that compared the resolution of film vs digital and what mp is needed to duplicate resolution of film and that to duplicate the color saturation the mp is higher. Did that make any sence? I sometimes have trouble communicating my thoughts on here. Can tell? It was a very intresting read.

Here's the video:
http://fwd.five.tv/videos/challenge-blow-up-part-3

I didn't see it on TV, I am not sure what BBC or similar channel it normally airs on. What you said does make sense. I understand at least lol.

[Ghost]

Rick, disregard all of the "fast lens" talk. Only a well trained photographer can extract what an f1.2 lens has to offer. Shooting at f1.2 will give you a depth
of focus measured in quarters of an inch.

No not exactly. It all depends on the distance the camera is form the subject. A lens focused at one foot will have a very shallow DOF but the same lens focused at 20ft will have a wider DOF. I think I membered that correct from my studies many years ago. Fast lenses are generally used for indoor sports or places where light is low. Yes as a beginner you can disregard most of it but if you want to know why things are happening the way they are you might want to know a little bit of it.

[GhostDakota]

I just got my 50 1.8 on Sat and took it out. It's FUN to have such a fast lens. I do think that a fast lens can be incredibly helpful when shooting in low light situations. There's a whole 50 1.8 thread on my board:
http://www.nikoncafe.com/vforums/showthread.php?t=187690

[ECKSJAY]

FWIW, I shoot at 2.8 max usually with my 50/1.8. Anything below that and my DOF starts to suffer. Most of my subjects aren't flat, so 2.8 does just about right. Good focal length and knowing how to use depth of field help. First one was with an SB800 bounced off the ceiling...and the second one was with an open window on the right (which also gave a brilliant eye catch!).

f4
http://philmarek.smugmug.com/photos/307238986_oHpSu-M-5.jpg

f4.5
http://philmarek.smugmug.com/photos/352123126_vQWZu-M-1.jpg

[Metal Thrasher]

http://www.steves-digicams.com/2008_reviews/canon_sd1100.html

This Cannon is totally awesome for a nonpro user. My wife has been using one for about 6 months now. It is fast and has great focus. If you are looking for a versitile small package without a lot of lense options defenitely look at his camera.