Any one else getting worries about Obama

[kdailey4315]

Maybe it's the fact that I live in the San Francisco Bay Area or the fact that 99% of media is liberal but I'm starting to believe that Obama just might win the election and I'm starting to worry? Do you think he will really be able to institute a national health care system and tax people 60%? Will he really be able to inact his "share the wealth" communist mantra?

[Bent]

Do you think he will really be able to institute a national health care system and tax people 60%? Will he really be able to inact his "share the wealth" communist mantra?
Blood will run in the streets first!

:patriot:

[Mtb Jak]

polosi will let it happen and states have already taken steps to become socialist/like...

imagine the uproar and crazy things that will happen if he loses by margin... happy im not in the city that week!!

Oh yeah and all the stuff that WILL surface when he loses were just getting a slight taste for it...

600 million dollars raised how!? oh yeah illegally!

[k.smith904]

If Obama loses, there will be riots all over the country.

[90Blue_XJ]

All his "little donations" are coming from foreign sources in Muslim areas of the world. They all want him elected and I think their money has made him have a good shot at it. If someone doesn't stop pulling the wool over America's eyes then Adolph Obama is going to be Chancellor of America.....er President of America.

[k.smith904]

Part of me wants Obama to get elected, so in 4 years (if he's even still in office) when nobody votes for him, the GOP will be there to say "I told you so you god damn sheep!"

:patriot:

[TunaSoda]

Yes, and funny how the campaign donations are all in sub-$200 funds (anything under $200 does not need to be traceable)

[TunaSoda]

Part of me wants Obama to get elected, so in 4 years (if he's even still in office) when nobody votes for him, the GOP will be there to say "I told you so you god damn sheep!"

:patriot:
If we are then ABLE to vote anymore with him having been with absolute power dismantling the constitution for 4 years by then...

[Bent]

All his "little donations" are coming from foreign sources in Muslim areas of the world. They all want him elected and I think their money has made him have a good shot at it. If someone doesn't stop pulling the wool over America's eyes then Adolph Obama is going to be Chancellor of America.....er President of America.

:nono:

Fourteenth Amendment
Section 3. No person shall be... elector of President and Vice President ... who, having previously taken an oath, as a member of Congress, or as an officer of the United States, or as a member of any State legislature, or as an executive or judicial officer of any State, to support the Constitution of the United States, shall have engaged in insurrection or rebellion against the same, or given aid or comfort to the enemies thereof. But Congress may by a vote of two-thirds of each House, remove such disability.

[k.smith904]

All Obama has to do is make it look like our country is in extreme and imminent danger, and America will do whatever he says is best in panic.

Dubya suspended Habeas Corpus and enacted the Patriot Act, and countless other pieces of legislature that goes against our Constitution. Not saying what he did was wrong, but he did it in the same way Obama will. And Bush didn't have a bunch of radical/terrorist friends paying his way to the White House...

[ECKSJAY]

If Obama loses, there will be riots all over the country.

http://gallery.computingzone.net/d/938-2/zombie2.jpg

[Boatwrench]

Part of me wants Obama to get elected, so in 4 years (if he's even still in office) when nobody votes for him, the GOP will be there to say "I told you so you god damn sheep!"

:patriot:

Be careful when you look in the mirror. The same thing can be said about those folks toeing the Republican party line.

[Boatwrench]

http://gallery.computingzone.net/d/938-2/zombie2.jpg

Exactly, but the riots will be less damaging if he loses than if he wins and is assinated. Reading all these Super Dooper Election posts make me believe this country is only one assination from civil war...and if it happens to be Senator Obama the civil war could delve into genocide.

[Boatwrench]

All Obama has to do is make it look like our country is in extreme and imminent danger, and America will do whatever he says is best in panic.

Dubya suspended Habeas Corpus and enacted the Patriot Act, and countless other pieces of legislature that goes against our Constitution. Not saying what he did was wrong, but he did it in the same way Obama will. And Bush didn't have a bunch of radical/terrorist friends paying his way to the White House...

So are you saying it was OK for President Bush, but it will not be Ok if (Potential) President Obama does the same?

[Boatwrench]

:nono:

Fourteenth Amendment
Section 3. No person shall be... elector of President and Vice President ... who, having previously taken an oath, as a member of Congress, or as an officer of the United States, or as a member of any State legislature, or as an executive or judicial officer of any State, to support the Constitution of the United States, shall have engaged in insurrection or rebellion against the same, or given aid or comfort to the enemies thereof. But Congress may by a vote of two-thirds of each House, remove such disability.

Are you implying that muslim countries are enemies? President Bush stated that the Muslim religion was peaceful, why would they be our enemies.

[MrShaft696]

If anyone cares im not voting for his dumb ass, I feel ashamed for anyone that does....

[TunaSoda]

Are you implying that muslim countries are enemies? President Bush stated that the Muslim religion was peaceful, why would they be our enemies.
Muslim's are peaceful???

1. 1968 Bobby Kennedy was shot and killed by a Muslim male extremist.

2. In 1972 at the Munich Olympics, athletes were kidnapped and massacred by Muslim male extremists.

3. In 1979, the US embassy in Iran was taken over by Muslim male extremists.

4. During the 1980's a number of Americans were kidnapped in Lebanon by Muslim male extremists.

5. In 1983, the US Marine barracks in Beirut was blown up by Muslim male extremists.

6. In 1985 the cruise ship Achille Lauro was hijacked and a 70 year old American passenger was murdered
and thrown overboard in his wheelchair by Muslim male extremists.

7. In 1985 TWA flight 847 was hijacked at Athens, and a US Navy diver trying to rescue passengers
was murdered by Muslim male extremists. Remember the pilot of this flight was from Richmond, MO.

8. In 1988 Pan Am Flight 103 was bombed by Muslim male extremists.

9. In 1993 the World Trade Center was bombed the first time by Muslim male extremists.

10. In 1998, the US embassies in Kenya and Tanzania were bombed by Muslim male extremists.

11. On September 11, 2001, four airliners were hijacked; two were used as Missiles to take down the World Trade Centers
and of the remaining two, one crashed into the US Pentagon and the other was diverted and crashed by the
passengers. Thousands of people were killed by Muslim male extremists.

12. In 2002 the United States fought a war in Afghanistan against Muslim male extremists.

13. In 2002 reporter Daniel Pearl was kidnapped and murdered by-- you guessed it-- Muslim male extremists.

Need I say more?

:patriot:

[Boatwrench]

Muslim's are peaceful???

1. 1968 Bobby Kennedy was shot and killed by a Muslim male extremist.

2. In 1972 at the Munich Olympics, athletes were kidnapped and massacred by Muslim male extremists.

3. In 1979, the US embassy in Iran was taken over by Muslim male extremists.

4. During the 1980's a number of Americans were kidnapped in Lebanon by Muslim male extremists.

5. In 1983, the US Marine barracks in Beirut was blown up by Muslim male extremists.

6. In 1985 the cruise ship Achille Lauro was hijacked and a 70 year old American passenger was murdered
and thrown overboard in his wheelchair by Muslim male extremists.

7. In 1985 TWA flight 847 was hijacked at Athens, and a US Navy diver trying to rescue passengers
was murdered by Muslim male extremists. Remember the pilot of this flight was from Richmond, MO.

8. In 1988 Pan Am Flight 103 was bombed by Muslim male extremists.

9. In 1993 the World Trade Center was bombed the first time by Muslim male extremists.

10. In 1998, the US embassies in Kenya and Tanzania were bombed by Muslim male extremists.

11. On September 11, 2001, four airliners were hijacked; two were used as Missiles to take down the World Trade Centers
and of the remaining two, one crashed into the US Pentagon and the other was diverted and crashed by the
passengers. Thousands of people were killed by Muslim male extremists.

12. In 2002 the United States fought a war in Afghanistan against Muslim male extremists.

13. In 2002 reporter Daniel Pearl was kidnapped and murdered by-- you guessed it-- Muslim male extremists.

Need I say more?

:patriot:

Two points:
On #12. You are incorrect. That fight is still on-going.

2nd point: I have been accused of being a Senator Obama supporter someone actual stated he was my messiah. But actually the points I am trying to make to all the feverent knuckleheads on this election forum is that for the last four years our current President has been held up as "could do no wrong' idol status and HE STATED that the muslim religion was peaceful. Did he believe it? You can't tell what is in a persons mind. Do I believe it? Hell no!

My thought when the President made that statement was he is trying to avoid knuckleheads in this country from becoming vigilantes and shooting up 7-11's. After reading the book " Left to Tell" about a survivor of the Rhwandan civil war and genocide I firmly believe we could easily slip into that same chaos here in the U.S. and that is not a pleasant thought.

I have read quite a bit about the Islamic religion, the region where Islam has flourished and the history of the Caliphate. I'm no expert but know enough to be concerned.

[NW-ZJ-SCOTT]

If anyone cares im not voting for his dumb ass, I feel ashamed for anyone that does....
http://webhollis.com/albums/Funny-Forum/Want_A_Cookie.jpg

[JNickel101]

Two points:
On #12. You are incorrect. That fight is still on-going.

2nd point: I have been accused of being a Senator Obama supporter someone actual stated he was my messiah. But actually the points I am trying to make to all the feverent knuckleheads on this election forum is that for the last four years our current President has been held up as "could do no wrong' idol status and HE STATED that the muslim religion was peaceful. Did he believe it? You can't tell what is in a persons mind. Do I believe it? Hell no!

My thought when the President made that statement was he is trying to avoid knuckleheads in this country from becoming vigilantes and shooting up 7-11's. After reading the book " Left to Tell" about a survivor of the Rhwandan civil war and genocide I firmly believe we could easily slip into that same chaos here in the U.S. and that is not a pleasant thought.

I have read quite a bit about the Islamic religion, the region where Islam has flourished and the history of the Caliphate. I'm no expert but know enough to be concerned.

Every religion has its extremists. It just so happens that Muslim extremists are more violent and prevolent in the world today....they want a one world Islamic state. You don't see Christian or Jew or Taoist terrorists attacking Iran, Iraq, Saudi, Syria, Indonesia, etc...

And another correction - the "war" in Afghanistan started in 2001, which removed the Taliban from power in AFG....yes, the fight is still ongoing. But everyone knows that...

The reasons behind the "violations", as people want to call it, of the Constitution that Bush advised (remember, he advised we do this, and CONGRESS approved it - don't front the "blame" with Bush) were with good intentions that make sense. Personally, my life hasn't changed because of any of those laws/rules/acts.

But then again, I'm not a Muslim terrorist hiding out in the US, plotting against the US....

Obama's ideas are flawed and serve no good purpose...and how anyone agrees with them is beyond me...:twak:

[Jester99]

Whoever loses...there is still going to be a massive amount of anger coming from that side.

[Bent]

Islam IS the enemy. You can hide your PC head in the sand if you like but a fact is a FACT.

[ECKSJAY]

But then again, I'm not a Muslim terrorist hiding out in the US, plotting against the US....

...but I DID stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night. :D

[JNickel101]

...but I DID stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night. :D


:roflmao:

[Darky]

Just remember, Gore and Kerry were ahead in the polls too, but Bush still won. Say what you want about recounts, whatever, but it happens all the time. I can't remember who it was, but I think even the guy running against Reagan was declared the victor based on polls and obviously lost.

[IndyXJ]

We'll be in a more major conflict by the spring...if Rand Corp has it's way. Think China, Russian or NK...

Yeah, I'm very worried about Obama and upon further thought, I may have to hold my nose and vote McCain.

[Boatwrench]

I can't remember who it was.


It was Senator Dewey vs incumbent President Truman.

President Reagan vs incumbent President Carter (1980)
Former VP Mondale vs incumbent President Reagan (1984)

[NW-ZJ-SCOTT]

Just remember, Gore and Kerry were ahead in the polls too, but Bush still won. Say what you want about recounts, whatever, but it happens all the time. I can't remember who it was, but I think even the guy running against Reagan was declared the victor based on polls and obviously lost.
Very true. everybody was sure kerry had it last time. but somehow bush slipped threw again like every republican snake, and it bit us in the ass as predicted. :wierd:

[JNickel101]

LOL...you honestly think this country would be in better shape if Gore or Kerry had been elected?

That's the best joke I've heard all year....

[Darky]

Very true. everybody was sure kerry had it last time. but somehow bush slipped threw again like every republican snake, and it bit us in the ass as predicted. :wierd:
I think Kerry lost because of his voice. He has a very plain, yet somewhat condescending voice. Like Obama. And Gore. Listen to Bush, JFK, Clinton, hell, even McCain to some extent, they had a distinct character to their voices that made it easier for comedians to impersonate/satire them and be recognized. Hollywood runs the show, if they can't make money off of your candidacy, you lose...




;)

[NW-ZJ-SCOTT]

LOL...you honestly think this country would be in better shape if Gore or Kerry had been elected?

That's the best joke I've heard all year.... We will never know, but allowing bush a full 8 years has done so much damage and debt, I could argue all day long. but bush has by far done the most damage. how could you possibly think kerry would of done worse? no no.. wait. dont answer that. Your right. im wrong. thats right, im a democrat.:roflmao:

[ECKSJAY]

We will never know, but allowing bush a full 8 years has done so much damage and debt, I could argue all day long. but bush has by far done the most damage. how could you possibly think kerry would of done worse? no no.. wait. dont answer that. Your right. im wrong. thats right, im a democrat.:roflmao:

Can't say Bush hasn't stuck with it, though. ;) At least his positions haven't flip-flopped. He said we were conducting a War on Terror and I haven't noticed a backdown from it... Nobody's perfect, but damn. How many terrorist attacks have happened on US soil since 9/11? :) How many happened prior to that under him? How many under Clinton?

[Bent]

I could argue all day long.
Only if you ignore the role of Congress in what you claim has happened. You see, it's not that you are wrong; it's that you will not take your blinders off to find the truth.

[Boatwrench]

How many terrorist attacks have happened on US soil since 9/11? :) Unknown, there have been some interesting circumstances surrounding power outages and tanker truck crashes How many happened prior to that under him? A few, too hard to tellHow many under Clinton? 1st WTC February 1993, less than one month after President Clinton took office. Okalahoma City Bombing 1995, non-Islamic incident

but terror attacks were also thwarted under President Clinton specifically The Millinium Bomber at the Port Angeles, WA border crossing from Canada into the U.S.

If you follow the terrorist targeting model, the 1st WTC bombing planning started during President Bush's (the father) term and the second WTC bombing, 9/11 under President Clinton's term. I believe using terrorist attacks on U.S. soil are moot arguements. There is not enough open source evidence to show what has been covertly thwarted by our government.

[Darky]

but terror attacks were also thwarted under President Clinton specifically The Millinium Bomber at the Port Angeles, WA border crossing from Canada into the U.S.
Yeah, but we don't wanna talk about that...;)

[NW-ZJ-SCOTT]

Can't say Bush hasn't stuck with it, though. ;) At least his positions haven't flip-flopped. He said we were conducting a War on Terror and I haven't noticed a backdown from it... Nobody's perfect, but damn. How many terrorist attacks have happened on US soil since 9/11? :) How many happened prior to that under him? How many under Clinton?
so your stating kerry would of caused more death due to ignorance on Terrorism? thats quite possibly the funniest thing i have heard. How many people have died in this war with iraq?
so its okay to kill thousands of our own in another country as long as theres a feeling of safety at home? kind of ignorant if you ask me! specially when we dont know when the next attack will be?
we cant stop all the shoe-bombers! and as long as we are over there. they're gonna be more persistant on blowing up my local wal-mart!

[ECKSJAY]

so your stating kerry would of caused more death due to ignorance on Terrorism? thats quite possibly the funniest thing i have heard. How many people have died in this war with iraq?
so its okay to kill thousands of our own in another country as long as theres a feeling of safety at home? kind of ignorant if you ask me! specially when we dont know when the next attack will be?
we cant stop all the shoe-bombers! and as long as we are over there. they're gonna be more persistant on blowing up my local wal-mart!

When did I say anything about Kerry? Please don't confuse yourself. :) I also didn't mention the specifics about the war, either. I was illustrating that the guy stuck to his guns and didn't back down from what he said he would do. ;) What's ignorant about stating facts? :eyes:

Why do you hate my country?

[Rod Knee]

All his "little donations" are coming from foreign sources in Muslim areas of the world.

I'd be in the McCain camp pretty solid if it wasn't for his choice of running mate so don't take this wrong. I'm not attempting to have a go at you, but, do you have some documentation or substantiation of these "donations"? Just curious, this is something I have not heard of.

[Darky]

There is no documentation of where the donations are coming from, just that there has been millions in small donations given to him using software that intentionally had the security turned off allowing the possibility of foreign contributions and he refuses to release the names of those donors under $200 even though the McCain camp gladly released their info when asked. <---long sentence...:)
The law allows Obama to hide the info and numbers when it comes to donations under $200, but it strikes me as odd that there is question about this and he will not answer. For someone claiming to be open and going to usher in a new level of transparency, he's being rather opaque.

[RNMedic]

he's being rather opaque.[/QUOTE]
about everything!!!

[JNickel101]

so your stating kerry would of caused more death due to ignorance on Terrorism? thats quite possibly the funniest thing i have heard. How many people have died in this war with iraq?
so its okay to kill thousands of our own in another country as long as theres a feeling of safety at home? kind of ignorant if you ask me! specially when we dont know when the next attack will be?
we cant stop all the shoe-bombers! and as long as we are over there. they're gonna be more persistant on blowing up my local wal-mart!

Aw crap, I wish I could find that post about more people dying in Chicago than in Iraq....

You don't have anything to worry about either way - you've probably never been to Iraq, and I doubt Muslims would target Oregon.

[kdailey4315]

Aw crap, I wish I could find that post about more people dying in Chicago than in Iraq....

You don't have anything to worry about either way - you've probably never been to Iraq, and I doubt Muslims would target Oregon.

http://www.naxja.org/forum/showthread.php?t=972570

Here it is

[JNickel101]

Thanks! I should have been able to find it by searching for "carpet bombings"....

:D

sometimes I really crack myself up...

[ECKSJAY]

Thanks! I should have been able to find it by searching for "carpet bombings"....

:D

sometimes I really crack myself up...


:roflmao::roflmao::roflmao:

[DrMoab]

...and if it happens to be Senator Obama the civil war could delve into genocide.

Some call it genocide, some call it an over-due population control.

It's just a matter of semantics. :D

[GSequoia]

Some call it genocide, some call it an over-due population control.

It's just a matter of semantics. :D

Kill whitey!

[DrMoab]

Kill whitey!

Kill everybody.

I am an equal opportunity population reductionist.

I think Maynard said it best.

"Some say a comet will fall from the sky.
Followed by meteor showers and tidal waves.
Followed by faultlines that cannot sit still.
Followed by millions of dumbfounded dipshits."

[wolfpackjeeper]

some say the end is near
some say we'll se armageddon soon...


good song

[k.smith904]

a little over 4 days till the apocalypse.

Praise the Lord and pass the ammunition!:explosion

[IntrepidXJ]

I'm not worried about Obama specifically....I'm more worried about the dems controlling the senate, congress and the presidency. There needs to be some checks and balance somewhere....

[Boatwrench]

a little over 4 days till the apocalypse.

Praise the Lord and pass the ammunition!:explosion

Actually, the apocalypse is December 22, 2012.

[JNickel101]

Actually, the apocalypse is December 22, 2012.

Which, coincidentally, would be right about the end of Obama's 4 year term, should he get elected....

[kdailey4315]

I'm not worried about Obama specifically....I'm more worried about the dems controlling the senate, congress and the presidency. There needs to be some checks and balance somewhere....

I thought of that also but then I realized that shit takes FOREVER to get through the government. Obama has these idiots expecting everything done on Nov 5th. I think people will get even more pissed with Congress when nothing is happening and Congress will be turned over again to the Republicans. (Hopefully)

[IntrepidXJ]

I thought of that also but then I realized that shit takes FOREVER to get through the government. Obama has these idiots expecting everything done on Nov 5th. I think people will get even more pissed with Congress when nothing is happening and Congress will be turned over again to the Republicans. (Hopefully)

...but they will probably push through some wilderness bills closing more of our trails.

[iwannadie]

...but they will probably push through some wilderness bills closing more of our trails.

Stuff like that wouldnt happen if people actually followed the 'tread lightly' mentality.

A quick search on oil leaks here, it is sad to think about all the oil(other fluids) left behind out there. The last time I was out I saw people leaving mounds of trash, bottles of oil and coolant all over.

I dont want to rant, but I hate when people blame the tree huggers for trails closing. Look at some of the people around you next time out there and see the big reason they Should be closed down.

[Boatwrench]

Which, coincidentally, would be right about the end of Obama's 4 year term, should he get elected....

Yep, have not lost sight of that fact

[Boatwrench]

Obama has these idiots expecting everything done on Nov 5th.

Yep. Represntative Nancy Pelosi is taking heat from the dems for not impeaching President Bush. We are a seven minute society, the time between commercials of the average sitcom. All crime is solved in an hours and Terrorist organizations only take 24hrs to be taken down by one man and save the nation.

[DrMoab]

Stuff like that wouldnt happen if people actually followed the 'tread lightly' mentality.

A quick search on oil leaks here, it is sad to think about all the oil(other fluids) left behind out there. The last time I was out I saw people leaving mounds of trash, bottles of oil and coolant all over.

I don't want to rant, but I hate when people blame the tree huggers for trails closing. Look at some of the people around you next time out there and see the big reason they Should be closed down.

You can't be that dumb.

You obviously are either a tree hugger yourself, in which case makes everything you say irrelevant anyway, or you have no clue about anything.

The tree huggers do not care about oil leaks. They don't care about how bad you tear anything up anywhere. The care about the fact that you are in the wilderness in a vehicle destroying what they consider to be their own personal little slice of heaven. We could all be driving electric Jeeps with a sensor that shocks the shit out of you when you move off a trail and they still would want everything closed down. If you don't believe me, find a SUWA member and ask him.

[IntrepidXJ]

Just for the record, I fully support wilderness areas....where they belong. Wilderness areas are supposed to be roadless areas. Groups like SUWA are trying to distort that definition to suit their needs and get areas that contain roads/trails closed off.

Do some research on SUWA and the Red Rocks Wilderness Bill and then come back and say you believe what you posted below.

Stuff like that wouldnt happen if people actually followed the 'tread lightly' mentality.

A quick search on oil leaks here, it is sad to think about all the oil(other fluids) left behind out there. The last time I was out I saw people leaving mounds of trash, bottles of oil and coolant all over.

I dont want to rant, but I hate when people blame the tree huggers for trails closing. Look at some of the people around you next time out there and see the big reason they Should be closed down.

[TunaSoda]

You can't be that dumb.

You obviously are either a tree hugger yourself, in which case makes everything you say irrelevant anyway, or you have no clue about anything.

The tree huggers do not care about oil leaks. They don't care about how bad you tear anything up anywhere. The care about the fact that you are in the wilderness in a vehicle destroying what they consider to be their own personal little slice of heaven. We could all be driving electric Jeeps with a sensor that shocks the shit out of you when you move off a trail and they still would want everything closed down. If you don't believe me, find a SUWA member and ask him.
lol

[iwannadie]

You can't be that dumb.

You obviously are either a tree hugger yourself, in which case makes everything you say irrelevant anyway, or you have no clue about anything.

The tree huggers do not care about oil leaks. They don't care about how bad you tear anything up anywhere. The care about the fact that you are in the wilderness in a vehicle destroying what they consider to be their own personal little slice of heaven. We could all be driving electric Jeeps with a sensor that shocks the shit out of you when you move off a trail and they still would want everything closed down. If you don't believe me, find a SUWA member and ask him.

Why is every political discussion like this, if you disagree with an opinion suddenly your an extremist in the other direction. I support roadless areas where they belong and treading lightly. So in your eyes Im a tree hugger, anti wheeling or whatever else...

The point is when closing trails come up they use polluting(oil leaks) and abuse(leaving trash) as reasons. If -we- would stop giving them those reasons it would be harder to make a case, I think.

However, its always either your an extremist anti doing anything except walking in the woods. Or your out to just trash everything and leave your mark on every trail. I better not pick up a spilling quart of oil or the other jeepers will see me as an idiot environmentalist wacko.

[DrMoab]

Why is every political discussion like this, if you disagree with an opinion suddenly your an extremist in the other direction. I support roadless areas where they belong and treading lightly. So in your eyes Im a tree hugger, anti wheeling or whatever else...

The point is when closing trails come up they use polluting(oil leaks) and abuse(leaving trash) as reasons. If -we- would stop giving them those reasons it would be harder to make a case, I think.

However, its always either your an extremist anti doing anything except walking in the woods. Or your out to just trash everything and leave your mark on every trail. I better not pick up a spilling quart of oil or the other jeepers will see me as an idiot environmentalist wacko.

My feelings on tree huggers is not a political view. And you are totally mistaken on why trails are closed. Like I said it has nothing to do with oil leaks or trash being left on a trail. And I know of no one...NO ONE who leaves trash on the trail. In fact in todays world 99% of the people I wheel with or see on the trails usually are out picking up trash, not the other way around.

You have been blinded by the typical greenie talking points. You understand nothing.

[iwannadie]

My feelings on tree huggers is not a political view. And you are totally mistaken on why trails are closed. Like I said it has nothing to do with oil leaks or trash being left on a trail. And I know of no one...NO ONE who leaves trash on the trail. In fact in todays world 99% of the people I wheel with or see on the trails usually are out picking up trash, not the other way around.

You have been blinded by the typical greenie talking points. You understand nothing.

So theres some conspiracy to follow me around and plant these actors who leave trash behind as to fool me? Im sorry, maybe its more problem here or maybe Ive seen the worst of it. A simple trek through random youtube videos and you can see plenty of burned out abandon vehicles, vandalism, trash piles and other trail abuse.

Ive had alot of people preach to me anti-wheeling, they all bring up treading lightly so its an issue. They bring up saving the natural resources and then issues with leaking vehicles and trash left behind, the issues go hand in hand. If your thinking people are out to close trails just to screw you over for that reason solely then well, ok. Like I said before, if people dont agree suddenly they are an extremist in the opposite point of view.

In your own words. "In fact in todays world 99% of the people I wheel with or see on the trails usually are out picking up trash,". Reminds me of "Half the time, it works every time.".

[GSequoia]

It's where you are wanna.

Most places are pretty clean but the deserts close to population are still filthy.

It's a tweaker thing.

[iwannadie]

It's where you are wanna.

Most places are pretty clean but the deserts close to population are still filthy.

It's a tweaker thing.

Its sad then, people are ruining what we have around here.

Obviously Im not some anti-wheeling maniac if Im out there in my jeep. Im just saying if people are abusing a natural resource its hard for me to say its wrong to close the trail...

[GSequoia]

Get out in the better areas and you'll see a world of difference. Just get away from the big tweaker locations.


I'm sure there are areas like that in Utah too, Beaver comes to mind (sure looked like a tweakerific area when I've been through there). But as Dr. Moab mentioned those areas aren't getting much attention, generally if those areas are in a closure area you'll notice it's vast, so vast that they don't even know all of the areas the closure / wilderness area is.


We're not saying that we don't need to continue drilling it into people's skulls that they have to clean up after themselves, we're just saying that the biggest threat right now comes from large anti-outdoors organizations that don't know what the area looks like, only that they want all people out (first Jeeps / dirt bikes / ATV, then mountain bikes, then horses, then hikers, that is how it goes).

[iwannadie]

Get out in the better areas and you'll see a world of difference. Just get away from the big tweaker locations.


I'm sure there are areas like that in Utah too, Beaver comes to mind (sure looked like a tweakerific area when I've been through there). But as Dr. Moab mentioned those areas aren't getting much attention, generally if those areas are in a closure area you'll notice it's vast, so vast that they don't even know all of the areas the closure / wilderness area is.


We're not saying that we don't need to continue drilling it into people's skulls that they have to clean up after themselves, we're just saying that the biggest threat right now comes from large anti-outdoors organizations that don't know what the area looks like, only that they want all people out (first Jeeps / dirt bikes / ATV, then mountain bikes, then horses, then hikers, that is how it goes).

I hear what your saying. From what Ive seen though the tread lightly is a big selling point for closures. I guess its not as big as an issue over all as Ive seen it made out to be though.

Like I said, everything is extremist points of view. Im sure the people wanting to close down big chunks of land to all use think we are all out raping the land. There will never be a middle ground to actually see eye to eye.