Why lockers and locking hubs?

I'm very new to all of this. I try to figure questions out so i don't have to ask, but i just don't understand why you would have locking hubs with a locker.

To drive on the street without putting stress on the drivetrain..

mikeam7750 said:

I'm very new to all of this. I try to figure questions out so i don't have to ask, but i just don't understand why you would have locking hubs with a locker.

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Turning doesn't work with locked diffs. Each wheel turns the same speed but the radius is different so one tire has a longer path.

Something has to give. Not good.

Locking hubs and locking diffs serve completely different purposes.

An open diff will always send power to the wheel with the least traction. A locking diff improves traction by locking the axle shafts together when one wheel starts to spin, so power is applied to both wheels equally.

Locking hubs lock the wheels to the axle shafts. The advantage is better gas mileage and less wear and tear on the drive train when they are unlocked in 2wd. Disadvantage is you have to get out to lock them when you shift into 4wd. Stock XJs do not have locking or automatic hubs, they have fixed hubs. They are always locked. I run an automatic locker in my front axle and except for during very tight turns I don't really notice it on-road.

n1ywb said:

Locking hubs and locking diffs serve completely different purposes.

An open diff will always send power to the wheel with the least traction. A locking diff improves traction by locking the axle shafts together when one wheel starts to spin, so power is applied to both wheels equally.

Locking hubs lock the wheels to the axle shafts. The advantage is better gas mileage and less wear and tear on the drive train when they are unlocked in 2wd. Disadvantage is you have to get out to lock them when you shift into 4wd. Stock XJs do not have locking or automatic hubs, they have fixed hubs. They are always locked. I run an automatic locker in my front axle and except for during very tight turns I don't really notice it on-road.

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Some peoples kids..................

Automatic lockers don't engage untill you are in 4wd. You need locking hubs or a disco with a traditional locker. Try to drive my fs Ford on pavement with the hubs locked & you'll know what steering bind is. We put a disco in my sons' 95 for all the previously mentioned reasons, locker and wear on the drive train both.

Damn there is some bad information here.

Chuck, fix your ford.

Maybe after I get coffee I'll come back and post something other than some flaming..

if its that big of a deal why not get an arb? it ends up cheaper i think cuz a locking hub conversion is maddd expensive

:dunno:Cal, I know it's the wrong forum but enlighten me on my Ford when you get back. It feeds back in 2wd with the hubs locked. It's a TTB 44 w/LSD. It's alway done this but the po was a tweaker so who knows what is inside. I always drove my older rigs with the hubs locked in snow & ice so I could shift on the fly but they had open difs.

I have seen some rigs with an ARB and Warn locking hubs what are the pros and cons of this set-up. I can't figure it out.

mikeam7750 said:

I have seen some rigs with an ARB and Warn locking hubs what are the pros and cons of this set-up. I can't figure it out.

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unescesary redundancy.

thanks for your help guys. I was having a hard time trying to figure out why some people had locking hubs with an arb locker. I thought there was some other reason that i did not know about.

Another added plus of the locking hubs is that if you should break the gears/axle shaft/locker, you can unlock the wheels from the driveline and drive your vehicle home, as the broken parts will no longer have any movement or power to them.

Say for example when I blew up my spider gears in my old 30, they would mesh in a certain way so that they would lock up and I would lose steering on road. I had to get towed home. With hubs I would have been able to drive home.

mikeam7750 said:

thanks for your help guys. I was having a hard time trying to figure out why some people had locking hubs with an arb locker. I thought there was some other reason that i did not know about.

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Locking hubs for all the reasons noted. Better mileage, less wear and tear, disengage front axle, etc. ARB/other selectable locker so you can have 4 wheel drive (hubs locked in) without having to keep the front diff locked. Makes it easier if you need to turn a little tighter on the trail, deactivate ARB, but keep 4wd traction.

outlander said:

unescesary redundancy.

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no

ARB locks the spyder gears. Locking hubs lock the axle shafts to the wheel hubs. front axles (without the CAD) spin the outer shafte, u-joints, innershafts, spiders, carrier, ring and Pinion, and the driveshaft (and those 3 u-joints too) as well as the front output shaft on the transfer case, which would include the chain in the t-case. that is a lot of parts moving un-necessarially.

the CAD (vacuum motor driven Central Axle Disconnect thing) disconnects the passenger side axleshaft to allow the spider gears to spin independentlyand not spin the front driveshaft (with everything behind it too) as both sets of axleshafts are free to spin at different rates. it is easier to spin the spider gears, so the carrier stays put. both sets of axle u-joints still spin with this design

people put lockouts on so only the hub spins, and everything else stays put. less wear on the u-joints, you get to run regular tapered bearings instead of a unit-bearing, and you get a slight increase in fuel mileage if you pay attention to that.

if you flat tow, having front and rear lockouts allows you to un-lock all 4 wheels, and you don't have to worry about pulling driveshafts, as far as the rest of your drivetrain is concerned, you are sitting in a parking lot.

tomcat said:

people put lockouts on so only the hub spins, and everything else stays put. less wear on the u-joints, you get to run regular tapered bearings instead of a unit-bearing, and you get a slight increase in fuel mileage if you pay attention to that.

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This is the only point I disagree with you on. Having locking hubs on my XJ, there was zero dif in gas mileage, but more importantly, I get the exact same wear in my u-joints.

Unlocked, they still have to move when I turn the wheels, and going strait, it doesnt matter of the shaft is spinning or not, because the u-joint caps sit static on the trunion.

There are a lot of different reasons here. I just got off the phone with the tech guys at ARB USA. He told me the pros of a locking hub are: If you brake an axle shaft you can still drive out, it helps with turning because you have just the hubs locked to the wheels locked to the shafts, and it helps with mpg and wear. As apposed to a selectable locker you are locking the spider gear which is locked to the axle locked to the hub. So a reason to have both.... If someone has both on your rig, or you know someone who does, please tell me why.

I'd disagree with the one about breaking a shaft and still driving out. If we are talking about a front shaft and it brakes at an angle it can mess up a spindle bad enough to run it, Rear full kit spindle for that mater.

I had them both on my jeep because the axle had lockouts on it when i got it. I acutally flipped the springs so they couldn't disengage though.. Once I upgraded to 35 spline outers I put flanges in.

jmop said:

I'd disagree with the one about breaking a shaft and still driving out. If we are talking about a front shaft and it brakes at an angle it can mess up a spindle bad enough to run it, Rear full kit spindle for that mater.

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In case you misunderstood, he said with locking hubs you could still drive out with a broken shaft and that is absolutely correct with the hubs in the unlocked position.

Like Cal said there is a tremendous amount of misinformation here.

Like n1ywb said locking hubs and lockers serve totally different purposes. I think most of you guys are getting hung up on the terminology. Calling them what they are might make it easier. They are "manual hubs" meaning you manually select if you want them locked or free spinning. As you should know stock unit bearings/hubs are always engaged, or "locked" if you will. So adding a hub kit does not give you the capability of locking anything. Instead they give you the ability to unlock, or disengage, the axle shafts from the hub. Being able to drive on-road without any of those front end parts turning is the beauty of it. There are many benefits but IMO the largest benefit is a much smoother ride (less vibrations) from not having the front driveshaft spinning. Thats a big issue if you have a lot of lift or low pinion front end. You no longer need to worry about a bad pinion angle causing vibes.

So the easiest way to put it, lockers lock the shafts together, wereas hubs allow you to disengage the shafts and wheel.

And for the record I have an ARB and hubs. Love it.

Yes I know how hub disconnects work.

I don't know why I got hung on it, I guess I was thinking that if you didn't take it out of 4wd in the case of the front or disconnected the rear somehow, in the case of the back. The transfer case would still be sending power through the drive lines and the shafts will still turn.

Doesn't make much sense now that I look at what I wrote though.