To war or not to War, That is the question.

[JohnX]

Just curious how many pacifist are out there and how many war mongers there are? I will leave myself out for a while so I don't skew the results.

BTW...I am not looking for an arguement here, nor do I want alot of explaining.

I just want to know who believes in war and who doesn't?

THIS IS NOT ABOUT IRAQ...just war in general.

[johnlv6]

War should be used as a last resort when all forms of negotiation have been exhausted. You should be able to clearly justify your motives to go to war without political doublespeak. National tragedies should not be exploited to drum up support for wars when no credible evidence is present (ex. Iraq). There are things worth fighting for.

[5-90]

Warfare is what happens when politics and statecraft fail, but it should be considered a 'weapon of last resort.' I honestly think wars would make more sense if the people who voted to start the thing were then directly involved - something like elect our Seantors and Congressmen, and alternates for each. The alternates don't do nothing, until a vote on war is taken - those who vote for the war then go to war, and their alternates step in.

That said, I'm actually fairly hawkish - being a soldier (airman, actually) myself, I am an instrument of policy, not a maker of it. I'm no warmonger - I think a great deal of justification should take place before we go to war - but it is sometimes necessary. The foregoing still applies tho - if politicians are going to vote to start a war, then they should go fight in that war - instead of just sending other people's kids to do the dying...

Also, politicians should just stay the Hell out of the way once war starts - that would allow warfare to be prosecuted much more effectively and should help get them over with rather quicker.

"War doesn't determine who's right, war determines who's left..."

5-90

EDIT - I see you've added a poll, but you left out a couple shades of grey for moderates like me... I'm fairly hawkish, but I wouldn't be considered a "hawk." However, I am in no wise dovish - I suppose I'm a little closer to the "hawk" side of centre...

5-90

[JohnX]

War should be used as a last resort when all forms of negotiation have been exhausted. You should be able to clearly justify your motives to go to war without political doublespeak. National tragedies should not be exploited to drum up support for wars when no credible evidence is present (ex. Iraq). There are things worth fighting for.
That is exactly the kind of chatter I wasn't after.

I just want a vote in the poll...not an explanation of when where why and how we should go to war if thats what you believe.

[JohnX]

BTW...not picking on you...you just got there first :D

[rckclmbr]

kill em!

[OT]

War.

Good enough?

[johnlv6]

That is exactly the kind of chatter I wasn't after.

I just want a vote in the poll...not an explanation of when where why and how we should go to war if thats what you believe.

BTW...not picking on you...you just got there first :D

That's about the most fawking obnoxious response to a post i've ever received. No offense or anything :D.

[Sarge]

That is exactly the kind of chatter I wasn't after.

I just want a vote in the poll...not an explanation of when where why and how we should go to war if thats what you believe.

Sorry but that's the answer for me as well. You can't just say yep let's go or no at any cost. You must try alternative methods first otherwise we would be always fighting everyone. As a Marine I've seen the results too often to not wish for other methods to actual combat.

BUT if it has to happen then hit first, hit hard and hit accurate. Be prepared to go the full length needed and be prepared for the inevitable results.

Sarge

[JohnX]

Maybe I should have been more clear. My question was about the bottom line...AFTER you have tried any other means you believe in.

For instance...
A bully at school hits you in the face...you walk away.
Tommorrow he hits you again, you report him to the principle.
Next week he does it agian...you change schools.
Two months later you run into him at the mall and he hits you...IS this the time you are willing to swing back?

Some people would swing back the first time, some people nevr will...that wasn't what I was after. I just wanted to know if you felt you are EVER justified in fighting back?

[XJ Dreamin']

I was just wondering the other day:

If we specify a US military resource exchanging fire with an adversary (domestic or foreign) as not being in a state of peace, how many years out of our 230 have we actually been at peace?

[JohnX]

I was just wondering the other day:

If we specify a US military resource exchanging fire with an adversary (domestic or foreign) as not being in a state of peace, how many years out of our 230 have we actually been at peace?
Not many.

[XJ Dreamin']

From what you're asking, a vote of 'No War' is total pacifism - die before responding. I haven't seen many here that fit that bill. By the same token, then, a vote of 'War' tags one as an irrational reactionary. What folks are trying to say is that neither answer fits. You've qualified that somewhat to say a vote of 'War' means that you believe there can be a reason to go to war. On that basis, I vote 'War'. Don't then come back on me and accuse me of being a war monger.

[Ben H]

From what you're asking, a vote of 'No War' is total pacifism - die before responding. I haven't seen many here that fit that bill. By the same token, then, a vote of 'War' tags one as an irrational reactionary. What folks are trying to say is that neither answer fits. You've qualified that somewhat to say a vote of 'War' means that you believe there can be a reason to go to war. On that basis, I vote 'War'. Don't then come back on me and accuse me of being a war monger.
x2
Nobody wants war. But backing our nation's leaders and troops is important so I support it.

[rock rash]

HUH ABSOLUTELY NOTHIN!

[XJ Dreamin']

This brings up a funny story. My dad worked for McDonnel-Douglas. In addition to Christmas and the 4th and whatnot, they got UN Day and NATO Day. My dad called them 'Peace Monger Day' and 'War Monger Day'. He liked both the UN and NATO because both entities accounted for a lot of hardware. Maintaining peace takes just as much war as did defending against communism. Both were good for sales.

[XJ Dreamin']

HUH ABSOLUTELY NOTHIN!

SAY IT AGAIN!

[XJ Dreamin']

Not many.

That's what I was thinking. I might actually have to hit the library on this one. some day.

[JohnX]

From what you're asking, a vote of 'No War' is total pacifism - die before responding. I haven't seen many here that fit that bill.
I guess I stirred up enough trouble now. This was exactly my point, but I knew some people would still vote against war.

As for true Pascifists that would die before fighting back...I have never met one and suspect the total is under 1%. I'm sure the percentage who "think" they are pascifists is much higher, but I think they would change their minds quickly if someone were truely threatening their lives(or their mothers?).

[ECKSJAY]

Your thread blows and I think you're an idiot.






I really don't care if you reply, because I'll never be clear about what I was after in the first place. Just answer yes or no.

[JohnX]

Maybe. :D

[ECKSJAY]

Maybe. :D

Hmm, that's not what I was looking for. I wish I could make it more clear.

[Sniggs]

Edit... Sacky hacks

[OT]

Well, if it isn't the Marshall and his sidekick Sacky.

[JohnX]

Lighten up guys...nobody twisted your arm into replying.

[ECKSJAY]

Lighten up guys...nobody twisted your arm into replying.

Not giving you what you were looking for?

Please explain.

[JohnX]

Not giving you what you were looking for?

Please explain.
Getting exactly what I wanted..A little entertainment :kissyou:

[ECKSJAY]

Getting exactly what I wanted..A little entertainment :kissyou:

I'm trying to make sense of this.

Convenient that you mention that this isn't about Iraq...yet there's a war going on over there. Has been for the last few years, yet this isn't about Iraq.

[JohnX]

I'm trying to make sense of this.


Don't waste too much time on it...I generally don't make sense this late at night.

[CanMan]

In on page 2. :D

[ECKSJAY]

Don't waste too much time on it...I generally don't make sense this late at night.

:rolleyes:

Nice sidestep.

[JohnX]

In on page 2. :D
Sorry you're too late...It's past my bedtime. Goodnight, and Thanks for playing.

[ECKSJAY]

Sorry you're too late...It's past my bedtime. Goodnight, and Thanks for playing.

We never forget, like 9-11.

[CanMan]

Sorry you're too late...It's past my bedtime. Goodnight, and Thanks for playing.

Dammit! I always lose. :rattle:

:D

[GermanXJ]

I have been to war twice in the past 7 years and my wife has been once. We both feel while it isnt what We consider a good time it is a nessary evil. It should also be brutal and quick to show our enemys we mean business. could save lives in the future.

[yardape]

Agree with ECKSJAY. A question posed purposely without context is thoughtless and a waste of everyone's time. You ask people to answer a question that you're too lazy to phrase properly and then sidestep when you are called on it. Some people who have been personally involved in war take it far more seriously than a pop quiz posed for someone elses entertainment.

[RichP]

I have been to war twice in the past 7 years and my wife has been once. We both feel while it isnt what We consider a good time it is a nessary evil. It should also be brutal and quick to show our enemys we mean business. could save lives in the future.

Agree, we should use such over powering force and keep using it till the issues are settled. This hodge podge approach costs lives. When we had those scum cornered in that city we should have started leveling it from one end and shooting anything that came out the other side. Brutal, yes, but until the average citizen over there realizes that terrorists in their midst brings on some rolling thunder it will never end, once they realize that then THEY will start taking care of them on their own..

[Beej]

I'm much more pacifist than warmonger. (Funny how 'warmonger' contains the word 'warm' and 'pacifist' contains the word 'fist'...) At the same time, I'd classify myself as a sheepdog rather than a wolf or a sheep too...

When it comes to life, I take a more peaceful approach. Think of the world as an ideal place. Imagine there's no heaven. Its easy if you try. No hell below us, above us only sky. Imagine all the people living for today.

Nationalism and religion account for the vast majority of reasons to war, so further, I also like to imagine there's no countries, it isn't hard to do. Nothing to kill or die for, and no religion too. Imagine all the people living life in peace...

I know this sounds idealistic and you may say Im a dreamer, but Im not the only one. I hope some day that you'll join us and the world will be as one.

Its pretty wild but, imagine all the people sharing all the world.

I said it before and I'll say it again; you may say Im a dreamer, but Im not the only one. I hope some day you'll join us and the world will live as one.

We are all so wrapped up in our little workaday lives. Work, breed, acquire. We fight for these mutable things and to what end? Imagine no possesions, I wonder if you can, no need for greed or hunger, a brotherhood of man. Just imagine all the people sharing all the world.

I know I'm being repetitive, but whatever. You may say Im a dreamer, but Im not the only one. I hope some day you'll join us, and the world will live as one...

Peace...

[seanR]

This thread sux.

I say kill everyone.

[OT]

He only started the thread to raise everyone's temperatures.

Consider yourselves
http://home.medewerker.uva.nl/m.l.kraan/bestanden/Big%20Catch.jpg

[JohnX]

He only started the thread to raise everyone's temperatures.

Consider yourselves
http://home.medewerker.uva.nl/m.l.kraan/bestanden/Big%20Catch.jpg
Ding Ding Ding...we have a winner.


Although I do feel That I owe you all an apology...YESTERDAY was not a good day for that thread to be started.

I do not like war anymore than the next guy, but there is a time and place.

Again...SORRY for stepping on bare nerves.

And yes...this is a serious apology, not joking in the least.

[Boatwrench]

I wonder how many of the 80% that voted war have actually served and have actually served in a combat environment. "The Red Badge of Courage" keeps popping up un my mind while reading this thread.

[Captain Ron]

I keep hearing John Beej. :D

--ron

[BOB]

For instance...
A bully at school hits you in the face...you walk away.
Tommorrow he hits you again, you WALK AWAY.
Next week he does it agian...you WALK AWAY.
Two months later you run into him at the mall and he hits you...IS this the time you are willing to swing back?

NO....you go to the U.N. :D

ha ha fixed it for ya.

...BOB

[RichP]

NO....you go to the U.N. :D

ha ha fixed it for ya.

...BOB

Yea, and then they send a bunch of people who then watch you get the snot beat out of you...

[Lou]

War is stupid.




Large-scale 'natural disasters' are so much better -- got HAARP ?

[Beej]

I keep hearing John Beej. :D

--ron Why, whatever do you mean?

http://www.paklinks.com/gs/images/smilies/whistling.gif

[flexjay87]

i say kill everyone except me and that "chick" on that George Hamilton commercial,(some kind of snack cracker or something) and we'll start over. important thing is that she is very easy on the eye, good genetics you know,he he.... oh i voted war, hell it's just a contest like everthing else, only death is not the usual outcome in most contests. remember, you can't negotiate peace until someone wins the war, or it aint over until the fat lady sings.