Flat Towing Locked F/R

Flat Towing Locked F/R ??

The Jeep Jamboree is coming up pretty soon in Crandon, WI and I'm almost done welding mounts on my front bumper for a towbar. What do I need to do before I start towing. I've already got tow lights and saftey chains. Steering Wheel unlocked; got that one. I've read a couple forums and they say to remove both driveshafts. Some say not to worry about it. I've also heard to have the tranny in N and also to leave it in P. Whats the best bet.

1989 Jeep Comanche LWB; Automatic; 231; D44/Spool; D30/lunchbox. 35in MTrs; 4.88s

Richard

Re: Flat Towing Locked F/R ??

rsquirt83 said:

The Jeep Jamboree is coming up pretty soon in Crandon, WI and I'm almost done welding mounts on my front bumper for a towbar. What do I need to do before I start towing. I've already got tow lights and saftey chains. Steering Wheel unlocked; got that one. I've read a couple forums and they say to remove both driveshafts. Some say not to worry about it. I've also heard to have the tranny in N and also to leave it in P. Whats the best bet.

1989 Jeep Comanche LWB; Automatic; 231; D44/Spool; D30/lunchbox. 35in MTrs; 4.88s

Richard

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You can't flat tow it with the drivelines connected with your setup. With a 231 t-case, when the t-case is in nuetral it connects the front and rear drivelines (like it does when in 4wd). If you have open diffs there is enough differentiation to allow this to work, but if you have lockers, and especially with a spool, it won't work and you can tear things up. I have a friend who flat towed with lockers front and rear and he eventually split his t-case, it locked up, broke one of the drivelines and one of the pinion yokes, and the bellhousing.....it was a messy break.

If you had locking hubs in the front and unlocked them it would work. Otherwise you need to disconnect BOTH drivelines. You can't disconnect only one because with the t-case in neutral the connected driveline will spin the disconnected driveline. You can't leave it in 2wd because you can't spin the trans when towing or it will burn up the trans. The trans must be in park to keep it from spinning.

While we're on the subject, just in case folks don't know, the reason you can't spin the auto when towing is because the trans pump runs off the input shaft, so if the motor isn't running the trans won't get lubricated. The 231 t-case is OK for towing because the pump runs off the output shaft, which spins when you're towing so the t-case gets lubricated. So, normal towing is with the t-case in neutral and the trans in park.

Now, if you install a 2wd low range kit, they now come with a true neutral. This means that when the t-case is in neutral the front and rear drivelines are NOT connected, which means you then could safely tow if you have lockers.

Re: Flat Towing Locked F/R ??

rsquirt83 said:

tow lights and saftey chains. Steering Wheel unlocked

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Sound good so far :spin1:

With the T-case in "N" you do not need to remove both driveshafts. But It's real easy to do, So why not ! Just in case the T-case slipping out of neutral. If your trip is less than 100 mile long just use neutral.

Oh what You have lockers ! If the lockers are not locked I think your OK

And you have a spool ! Pull the drive lines off. But I do read in an RV magazines you can get away removing just one of the drve lines With the T-case in "N"

Do you have axle disconnect on your front axle ? It may help. And "N" alone will work

Re: Flat Towing Locked F/R ??

Goatman said:

You can't flat tow it with the drivelines connected with your setup. With a 231 t-case, when the t-case is in nuetral it connects the front and rear drivelines (like it does when in 4wd).

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WRONG!!!

Nuetral is nuetral on the 231 and 242!!! I have tested both t-cases on several different years of XJ's on up to the 2001 MY. NOT A SINGLE ONE LOCKED THE DRIVESHAFTS TOGETHER!!!!

Re: Flat Towing Locked F/R ??

poorboy_616 said:

WRONG!!!

Nuetral is nuetral on the 231 and 242!!! I have tested both t-cases on several different years of XJ's on up to the 2001 MY. NOT A SINGLE ONE LOCKED THE DRIVESHAFTS TOGETHER!!!!

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If I remember correctly, somewhere in the mid to late 90's the t-cases started to come with a true neutral, possibly someone knows this info. However, in the 80's and earlier 90's there was no true neutral, and definitely no true neutral on his '89.

I also have dealt with many of them, the earlier years, a couple of mine and a few friends included, and none of them had true neutral. The earlier JB Conversions 2low kits also didn't come with a true neutral, but then Tera came out with a 2low kit and it had true nuetral, and JB quit making them. I had an earleir JB 2low and it didn't have true neutral, just like mine didn't have it stock. I later replaced the JB kit with a Tera 2low kit that has true neutral.

So, what does it feel like to be WRONG!!!

While Goatman and Poorboy fight over
both driveshafts locking together or not,

Where is the spool and where is the locker on the front or
rear axles ? And do you have axle disconnect in the front ?

Danny www.BlueXJ.com

I can flat tow mine, it is a 89 xj BUT it has a 242 t-case in it... There was a couple of guys that poped the 231 t-cases while flat towing.. I would call a R V repair shop like camping world.. I think they would know.. HTH



So, what does it feel like to be WRONG!!!

This is the norm for me Goatman... LOL.. But some people don't think before they yell...

Have a great day

"D44/Spool; D30/lunchbox"


OK, I'll relate another example. My brother has a '91 XJ with lunchbox lockers front and rear and a 231, and he has a cable actuated Posi-lock on the front disconnect. He bought a motorhome and tried to flat tow the XJ. It wouldn't work, it bound up and wouldn't pull right. So, since he was trying to go on a wheeling trip, he went and borrowed a dolly and that REALLY didn't work because even with the t-case in neutral when he moved the motorhome the XJ tried to drive off the dolly. Hmmm, front and rear hooked together with the t-case in neutral. He ended up unbolting both driveshafts and flat towing for that trip. When he got home he bought and installed a 2low kit with true neutral and after that he was fine flat towing.

I tried to flat tow with my 87 locked front and rear. I tried it in N/N and P/N and both times it would bind up and try to drive to the right. Luckily I had a long dirt driveway, because I was convinced that N/N would work without problems. It just about ripped my tow bar attachment off. I ended up driving the jeep... then bought a trailer.

Just pull your drivelines... or not and take pictures of the carnage!

I tried to flat tow with my 87 locked front and rear///////////


Did your jeep have the 242 case in it?

scottmcneal said:

I tried to flat tow with my 87 locked front and rear///////////


Did your jeep have the 242 case in it?

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Mine has a 231

I have seen a great number of R.V.'s every year towing various years of XJ's all flat with no troubles. Go out to your local boneyard, drop a few into nuetral and spin the drivelines. You will see....

Also, GM and Ford both used the NP231 and they can be flat towed, so don't give me that shit......

I am also good friends with one of the engineers from the XJ project in 79 during the initial design phase. I could give a call and doubly verify that they do have a truely nuetral and were spec'd that way by AMC........

Now, I am going to back out of this argument. It's just not worth the waste of time......

poorboy_616 said:

I have seen a great number of R.V.'s every year towing various years of XJ's all flat with no troubles. Go out to your local boneyard, drop a few into nuetral and spin the drivelines. You will see....

Also, GM and Ford both used the NP231 and they can be flat towed, so don't give me that shit......

I am also good friends with one of the engineers from the XJ project in 79 during the initial design phase. I could give a call and doubly verify that they do have a truely nuetral and were spec'd that way by AMC........

Now, I am going to back out of this argument. It's just not worth the waste of time......

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:worship: Gee your a god, you know my friends jeeps better than they do.. But hey, i guess when the case broke it was all in our mind..The oils we cleaned up was too...:worship: I'll let them know that you can tow the jeeps flat...
Thank you for your insight :cheers:

poorboy_616 said:

I have seen a great number of R.V.'s every year towing various years of XJ's all flat with no troubles. Go out to your local boneyard, drop a few into nuetral and spin the drivelines. You will see....

Also, GM and Ford both used the NP231 and they can be flat towed, so don't give me that shit......

I am also good friends with one of the engineers from the XJ project in 79 during the initial design phase. I could give a call and doubly verify that they do have a truely nuetral and were spec'd that way by AMC........

Now, I am going to back out of this argument. It's just not worth the waste of time......

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"I have a friend who flat towed with lockers front and rear and he eventually split his t-case, it locked up, broke one of the drivelines and one of the pinion yokes, and the bellhousing.....it was a messy break."

Dude, if personal experience isn't good enough for you......... :dunno:


Like I said, the later year models came with it, I believe. Also, plenty of folks tow successfully even without true neutral because they don't have lockers, and the open axles allow enough differetiation.

you are out of your element here Donny.....

poorboy_616 said:

I have seen a great number of R.V.'s every year towing various years of XJ's all flat with no troubles. Go out to your local boneyard, drop a few into nuetral and spin the drivelines. You will see....

Also, GM and Ford both used the NP231 and they can be flat towed, so don't give me that shit......

I am also good friends with one of the engineers from the XJ project in 79 during the initial design phase. I could give a call and doubly verify that they do have a truely nuetral and were spec'd that way by AMC........

Now, I am going to back out of this argument. It's just not worth the waste of time......

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You're mistaken. Early models tie the front and rear together. As Goatman said, it wasn't until the mid 90s sometime when the front/rear were unlocked.

Not so, my 87 has a true nuetral (verified first hand). Nothing is tied together. I have a 231 though. The 242 might be a different story.....

poorboy_616 said:

Not so, my 87 has a true nuetral (verified first hand). Nothing is tied together. I have a 231 though. The 242 might be a different story.....

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My 87 231 does not have a true nuetral (verified first hand)

Maybe yours was swapped by a PO or is "special"... I don't know, just throwing random thoughts out there. Their are others on here that know far more than I, but I know for sure my 87 231 will NOT let me flat tow it.

Maybe there were different versions of 231's made...

jrowell said:

My 87 231 does not have a true nuetral (verified first hand)

Maybe yours was swapped by a PO or is "special"... I don't know, just throwing random thoughts out there. Their are others on here that know far more than I, but I know for sure my 87 231 will NOT let me flat tow it.

Maybe there were different versions of 231's made...

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Do you have a operating manual for your 1987 Jeep Cherokee?