Apple Computers

[Brad M.]

My wife and I are thinking of getting a new computer and have been looking around at different name-brand PC stuff. Have looked (online) at Dell, HP, etc, then came across an Apple Store the other day and stopped in. I liked a lot of what I saw but my wife's real skeptical. We know no one personally who owns a Mac so other than internet research (which I've done alot of) we can't get that much feedback on them. Anybody on the boards who uses the Mac? Thoughts on pros, cons, user friendly, op. system, reliability, customer service, etc? We mostly use our computer for email, surf the web, but really want to get into something that'll let us store and play with our digital pictures and DVD's, etc. Any input would be great. TIA

Morty

[red90xj]

dont mark me on this 100% but im pretty sure "Apple" came out with their computers more for PC games... i know a girl who has had 3! and all have died
apparently there a pain in the a$$ and are very different then any pentium computer...just my thoughts

[Lonestar]

I have never personally own a mac, but I have used them at school and personally I don't like them. Although its probably because I've always used a pc and I'm just not use to them. With a mac you might have problems running programs you currently have or plan on getting, cause they don't always support pc and mac.

You shouldn't need anything special to do what you mentioned. Probably something in the $600 range. I have a friend that has had two dells over the years and likes them a lot, he uses his for the same reasons as you and has had no problems (except with that spyware bullsh!t, but who hasn't).

Personally I use mine for games and I recently built my first system, and saved a few hundred dollars compared to an equivilant off-the-shelf system.

[GSequoia]

I run Mac at home.

Useablity, setup, ease of use, and durability all get A's from me. All modern macs I've used have been work horses and less problematic than work's PC's (that's my job.... ;)). (I say "modern" because quite a number of years ago Apple made the stupid decision to do a "performa" line and they were dogs.)

Anyway, I say a vote for apple is a good one.

[CW]

The new intel based macs are really nice. The quality is better than almost any pc and you can dual boot windows or os x. I didn't like them much before but I'm a huge fan after the intel switch, you can run windows if you need to, but I like the useability of the mac os more than windows xp or vista.

[5-90]

I like the fact that they based their OSX core off of a variation of Linux (making it rather more stable than windoze, and opening up software support...) but I've still got a PC because the software support isn't as "there" as I'd like for a Mac switch (having owned them) or, better yet, switching directly to Linux (I'm my own Tech Support department anyhow...)

If you're not "comfortable" with computers, I'd suggest getting a later Mac (do not get the "Performa," or "Proforma," or whatever they called those abortions! If you somehow do slip, make sure you get a bag of ready-mix cement on your way home, whack yourself in the head with it a couple times, and then mix the bag and pour it into the computer case. It's more useful as a doorstop - damn thing crashed more than Compaqs...) running OS9 or OSX. Most graphic arts types (that aren't running SGI/Sun, anyhow) just love Macs, and there are advantages - they're just not what I look for in a computer, although they have improved mightily.

Dell is "fair-to-middlin'," HP has suffered from the merger with Compaq (don't even try to get me started railing about Compaqs - unless you've got a month to waste!) and I do like IBM/Lenovo systems (they're what I use now, when I don't feel the need to purpose-build a machine.) I've got a ThinkPad T20 (hers) and T30 (mine) and 760XD (really old Win95 machine, it sits and manages my network, since I can't get a battery for it anymore...) and a NetVista G40 (desktop, does all my "heavy lifting" jobs and runs all the time.) All but the 760XD run Win2KPro - I haven't been impressed enough with XP/W2K3 to think about upgrading. Yes, I run a version or two behind - but I like it that way. If it was up to me, we'd still be running command lines - DOS didn't break!

If you're not comfortable doing tech work on your own, I'd suggest getting a Mac to start with - you will need tech skills with WIntel sooner or later, trust me... However, the tradeoff is increased software and hardware support for WIntel (PCs are "open architecture," and can be built entirely from aftermarket parts!) which Apple has only spent the last few years trying to catch up to. I honestly think one of the biggest mistakes Apple has made has been in not opening up their architecture the way IBM did - they took years to adopt the PCI expansion bus, and used Intel's Universal Serial Bus before their own IEEE-1394/FireWire bus! Also, most later versions of MacOS seemed to be able to read PC-formatted floppies and such - but you had to get a utility to do the reverse with a PC.

I would also NOT get an "iMac" - "cute" is not something that comes to mind when trying to pick a computer - neither does "fruit" (which most of the colours of the thing are named after.) Most "case-and-monitor" Macs are, I believe, expandable and upgradable, which still opens up an upgrade path for you later. You may not be able to swap processors, but you'll still have room for RAM (which you'll need before you need a processor) and you should be able to add a second hard drive and/or optical drive (like a CD-RW or a DVD drive) without too much effort. If a computer can't be upgraded easily, using standard parts, see my advice on the Performa and ready-mix cement, above.

Make sure to look at manufacturer's websites - if you don't need the "latest and greatest," you can usually score a good deal on factory refurbished hardware - but be aware that you probably will need to replace the hard drive with a new unit sooner or later (it happened with my T30, and with my T20 - but they're standard parts and relatively inexpensive...) so make sure you get OS Recovery Media (usually a bootable CD-ROM or a set of them) with the machine. The only problem I had with my T30 (refurb - it was the fastest machine I could get that ran W2K...) was that the hard drive went a little silly, the "serviceable used part" that I got to replace it went a little silly, so I asked them for recovery media, got a hard drive that was new and twice as large as the one it came with, and it's still ticking along just four-oh, thank you very much (I'm using it right now - the G40 usually just sits and runs jobs when I'm not looking...)

If you want to know more about Mac, ask GSequoia. If you want to know more about PC, I'd be happy to help. How's that?

5-90

[Root Moose]

Wow, lots of misinformation in this thread. Word of advice, only listen to people that actually own Macs.

Provided you are not "locked in" to some proprietary/commercial software that is only available on Windows there is nothing to be worried about when considering a Mac versus a Windows PC.

For the type of stuff you are interested in doing the Mac is perfect. It comes with software "out of the box" that is meant for doing what you want to do. Everything from managing MP3s (iTunes) and photos (iPhoto) to mixing your own DVDs (iMovie and iDVD) and music (Garageband). It's also software that is likely to have a upgrade path as OS X changes through its lifecycle.

There are commerical "office" type offerings out there in the form of stuff from Apple and Microsoft (Office for Mac is file compatible with the PC version). In addition to that there is also OpenOffice/NeoOffice which is a free office suite which is compatible with the Microsoft Office Suite and also adheres to the new open document standard which is being shoved down Microsoft's throat. I installed OpenOffice on my neice's laptop (Toshiba/WinPC) before she went off to university. She's used it and hadn't even noticed it wasn't the pirated Microsoft Office she had on her old machine. she's "just a user" but still.

If you are coming into the Mac world with a PC background don't try to over-buy your first Mac. A lot of new Mac switchers make the mistake of over-buying and end up with way more machine than they really need. There's nothing wrong with having too machine if you budget doesn't care but if you are price sensitive don't be obsessed with buying the uber machine at the end of the Apple store listings.

If you don't want to spend a lot of money get a Mini but put lots of RAM in it. For OS X and all the background processes I find 512Mb is a minimum. More is better. OS X is UNIX. It responds well to lots of RAM.

If I were to get a new Mac right now I'd probably go with a 20" iMac with 1+ GB of RAM. I could afford more machine but I really don't need it. I have an "old" dual G5 under my desk now. I'm never wanting for power and I'm a power user. I can rip DVDs, encode DVDs, work with large Photoshop files and do all the normal email, web, etc. stuff all simultaneously and I don't find I've ever hit the wall with the computer. In fact, the load isn't noticable from a user experience. My desktop at work is a G4 Powerbook and I very rarely find it lacking. Occasionally when I'm doing non-work related stuff but it is very rare. Both of these "old" PPC machines have 1.5GB of RAM.

FWIW, I never touched a Mac before buying my G5 for home about three years ago. Any regrets? Spending the last 10 years screwing around with the various incarnations of Windows and Linux on my PCs at home.

Hope this helps. If there is something else you need info on feel free to ask.

[DaJudge]

I have supported MACs in the past (old POS ones) so I had a bad attitude towards them. For the past few years I have worked with someone who does video and has several G5s and I like them. In fact, I bought myself a Macbook Pro 17" laptop. I have had it for two weeks and I love it. Little bit of a learning curve for me because of my Windows-centric background but it is a great machine.

The only real issue for some is the lack of games but I don't care about that so I love the MAC.

Embrace the MAC, you will not be disappointed.

Glen

[Idiot Wind]

I switched to Mac 4 years ago, still running the same machine, had to contact customer service ONCE. For what you want, Mac is perfect. There will be a small learning curve sure, but just pick up an OSX book off Amazon, you'll be fine.

[mdl]

lolololol lots of misinformation.... :)


I personally, hardware wise believe Macs superior. The quality of parts that go into one are of much higher quality. A lot of times when you purchace some Hp, compaq, sony (bad example), dell; you get a lot of crappy no name shit inside it. Apple puts a lot of good hardware inside their computers. I've been very pleased with their newest round of computers.

Hardware aside, software I also find them superior to a PC. Keep in mind I at home do not run windows. I find it very restrictive. MacOS is great because you can keep it very very simple yet if you want to really break it down you can.

5-90, MacOS is not based off linux but rather BSD, similar and open source as well to linux. BSD is what Winblows, MacOS, Many linux distros were created in.

Go apple or go home.

[Clint]

I love my Macs. OSX is superior to Windows. I switched about 2 years back and will not go back. I started with a Mini and then upgraded to a 20" iMac. I have removed all of my PC's but my old gateway laptop which will be replaced soon by a Macbook. I support PC's & Macs all day and l just love it when I have to deal with a Mac. The problems are usually trivial and easy to fix compared with a Windows machine.

[streetpirate]

macintosh is to computers what AOL is to the internet




macintosh = AOL + Time Warner + 100x richard simmons

[5-90]

lolololol lots of misinformation.... :)


I personally, hardware wise believe Macs superior. The quality of parts that go into one are of much higher quality. A lot of times when you purchace some Hp, compaq, sony (bad example), dell; you get a lot of crappy no name shit inside it. Apple puts a lot of good hardware inside their computers. I've been very pleased with their newest round of computers.

Hardware aside, software I also find them superior to a PC. Keep in mind I at home do not run windows. I find it very restrictive. MacOS is great because you can keep it very very simple yet if you want to really break it down you can.

5-90, MacOS is not based off linux but rather BSD, similar and open source as well to linux. BSD is what Winblows, MacOS, Many linux distros were created in.

Go apple or go home.


I use "Linux" in the generic sense - any of a number of "free" distros of a Unix-similar operating system fall under Linux, to me. That includes Red Hat, Mandrake, BSD, Ubuntu, and Gawd only knows what else, anymore.

Also, most of my Mac information is rather dated - so if I have misinformed anyone, please do provide specifics - so I can update my own information! I'm willing to be proven wrong, but it does take a modicum of effort (nothing outrageous, but I do expect sources to be cited, so I can also look them up for my own purposes...)

5-90

[Root Moose]

macintosh is to computers what AOL is to the internet




macintosh = AOL + Time Warner + 100x richard simmons
Making a statement like that pretty much relegates your credibility to zero.

[Kittrell]

Making a statement like that pretty much relegates your credibility to zero.

Agreed

I'll echo what everyone has pretty much already said, You won't find anyone with a "modern" Mac that will recommend a PC instead. And for what you are after, a Mac is perfect.

[Root Moose]

I use "Linux" in the generic sense - any of a number of "free" distros of a Unix-similar operating system fall under Linux, to me. That includes Red Hat, Mandrake, BSD, Ubuntu, and Gawd only knows what else, anymore.

This is not a correct application of the term Linux. For users it may make sense on some level but for techie weenies it really twists their nipples.

Linux is a kernel. Nothing more, nothing less. The "Linux distributions" that are out there are basically Free Software Foundation / GNU (FSF/GNU) userland that has been applied to a Linux kernel. When you look on the /boot file system of a Linux box the only part there that is truly "Linux" is the vmlinuz image in this directory. The rest of the system is a FSF/GNU UNIX-like user land that has been compiled to run with the Linux kernel.

Just to be clear, there is no reason for a "Linux system" has to look like UNIX. You could in theory, with the correct access to the Win APIs and a sufficient number of code monkeys, replace the Windows KERNEL32.DLL with vmlinuz.

Want to really twist nipples? Say that BSD has any similarlity to Linux. They don't even share the same license (GPL vs BSD). BSD is much more closer to the original UNIX that originates from 1970. Some of the Linux API level stuff looks similar. Remember that Linux was basically a grad student thesis to replicate (clone/rip-off) a UNIX like environment because any variant of UNIX that mere mortals could obtain was still stupid expensive (IIRC ~$500USD for SCO386, 386BSD was just on the cusp of becoming usable for real work).

WRT Mac OS X. Mac OS X uses the Mach microkernel with a FreeBSD style userland applied to it. There is nothing Linux in OS X. From a user experience a Mac it is a UNIX workstation with a really polished, consistent user interface and a real shell environment for those geeks that require it.

Also, most of my Mac information is rather dated - so if I have misinformed anyone, please do provide specifics - so I can update my own information! I'm willing to be proven wrong, but it does take a modicum of effort (nothing outrageous, but I do expect sources to be cited, so I can also look them up for my own purposes...)

For the record, my original snipe was not aimed at your post.

I'm a techie weenie but my nipples aren't twisted. :D I just like to see myself type.

It's a computer platform people, not a religion.

[5-90]

Moose - I told you my Mac info was dated! :roll:

I'd figured that I wasn't as great a purveyor of bogon emissions as most, but I do like to be at least fairly correct. If I'm not, I do require that some effort be made to prove me wrong (not much, but just saying "you're off" isn't going to fly here...) because I'd like to get my information correct so I can be more help to people...

I'm also not a "conniseur" (sp?) of *nix, so I'm not up on all the flavours of the OS. I am familiar with the idea of building a "Windoze" machine on a Linux core, tho, and I'd like to experiment with that someday (when I'm not devoting time to anything else - say, 10,191A.G. or thereabouts...)

Meanwhile, keep your pantyhose on, I'm likely to make some mistrakes here and there...:wave1: Keeping current on damn near everything is a chore, y'know...

5-90

[mdl]

5-90, My past wasn't toward you. Just that line with you're nick.

Moose you grabbed it well. I was just about to post up that same flavor of info before i saw you're post. :)

[XgeekstarX]

heres the deal

the new macs run intel processors so therefore you can run both mac osx and windows on the same computer. all this "you can't run this on a mac" shit is over with. if you can't run what you want on osx, then you still have the windows operating system on the computer. personally i love macs. some of the most user friendly and rock solid (operating system-wise) computers you could ever sit in front of.

only con i could see is if something does break. macs are exactly cheap to work on, and usually most computer repair places wont touch them. it's worth it to get the extended apple care plan so that way you're covered.

[SBrad001]

http://youtube.com/watch?v=ySQVg9lZV-c



:D

I love Mac!

[mdl]

http://youtube.com/watch?v=ySQVg9lZV-c



:D

I love Mac!


omg not that tool again... Yea I can beat up a computer on camera too! yey look at me i'm an attention whore!

[Brad M.]

Thanks for all the replies, I appreciate your input. One last question, while we were looking at them my wife noticed there's nowhere to insert a floppy disk and was concerned we wouldn't be able to transfer all of files over from the PC. The Mac's we were looking at were like an all in one screen (screen, ports/plugs, hard drive, speakers, cd-rom all in one unit) so it kind of threw us off. Again we're not real tech weenies (I'm jealous Root Moose!) so how would we address transferring files over to a Mac if we got one? Thanks

[Brad M.]

I love my Macs. OSX is superior to Windows. I switched about 2 years back and will not go back. I started with a Mini and then upgraded to a 20" iMac. I have removed all of my PC's but my old gateway laptop which will be replaced soon by a Macbook. I support PC's & Macs all day and l just love it when I have to deal with a Mac. The problems are usually trivial and easy to fix compared with a Windows machine.

Why you little techie! I never knew you were so dang smart (and such a good boy too) :D Maybe I'll have to drag you down to the apple store with me for backup. And there'll even be lots of eye-candy for you to look at down at the gateway too. :laugh3:

[GSequoia]

Monty - no floppy discs. They haven't come on Mac's since about 1998!

Networking is a breeze; alternatively you can e-mail or spring for a .Mac account and put them on your iDisk (internet storage); you can access it from Windwos to copy over.

[5-90]

Thanks for all the replies, I appreciate your input. One last question, while we were looking at them my wife noticed there's nowhere to insert a floppy disk and was concerned we wouldn't be able to transfer all of files over from the PC. The Mac's we were looking at were like an all in one screen (screen, ports/plugs, hard drive, speakers, cd-rom all in one unit) so it kind of threw us off. Again we're not real tech weenies (I'm jealous Root Moose!) so how would we address transferring files over to a Mac if we got one? Thanks

USB drive of some sort? I use them all over the place - they should plug right into anything with a USB port, and the format for them is fairly universal (you probably won't even have to format the thing for the first time.) They're available readily in sizes up to 1gB, and they're probably all the way up to four or eight gB by now, if you're willing to look.

Sounds like you were looking at an iMac - I would bother with one, because there's not a lot of upgrade path available (that I've found out about... I could be wrong again!)

5-90

[XJ Dreamin']

USB drive of some sort? I use them all over the place - they should plug right into anything with a USB port, and the format for them is fairly universal (you probably won't even have to format the thing for the first time.) They're available readily in sizes up to 1gB, and they're probably all the way up to four or eight gB by now, if you're willing to look.

Sounds like you were looking at an iMac - I would bother with one, because there's not a lot of upgrade path available (that I've found out about... I could be wrong again!)

5-90

USB external hard drive if you need bigger?

[5-90]

On that note, if you need a larger USB drive, it might be cheaper to source a 2.5"FF IDE drive and get a case separately - for instance, I can pick up a 2.5" drive (about 40gB) for somewhere around $70 with a little looking, and I can get USB cases all day long for about $25. There are some compensations to living in Silicon Valley - but you could also try TigerDirect for mail order - I've seen them have some rather good prices and decent goods.

5-90

[Clint]

Why you little techie! I never knew you were so dang smart (and such a good boy too) :D Maybe I'll have to drag you down to the apple store with me for backup. And there'll even be lots of eye-candy for you to look at down at the gateway too. :laugh3:

Yes I was a technie before a Jeep fanatic. I still work in a IT related field. I've been to the Apple store at the Gateway twice this week ;) The new iMacs are sweet. They just updated them as well. You cannot go wrong with the new 20" iMac for 1499. If you need help once you get it setup let me know. There are many many better ways to transfer files besides a floppy.

[87manche]

Thanks for all the replies, I appreciate your input. One last question, while we were looking at them my wife noticed there's nowhere to insert a floppy disk and was concerned we wouldn't be able to transfer all of files over from the PC. The Mac's we were looking at were like an all in one screen (screen, ports/plugs, hard drive, speakers, cd-rom all in one unit) so it kind of threw us off. Again we're not real tech weenies (I'm jealous Root Moose!) so how would we address transferring files over to a Mac if we got one? Thanks
you can get a USB FDD, you can get an external most anything for Macs. The thought process is different with Apple, they feel that the user should ever open the machine to upgrade it, and that all things should just plug into it. Macs have been able to boot to an external HDD for the last decade, that's a trick that PC's learned just recently.
Also, don't buy into the "Macs can run Windows now" deal. Yes, bootcamp works, it's impressive, but it's also totally unsupported by Apple and Microsoft, if it doesn't work you're on your own. Not to mention that you would also have to buy a full version of Windows to run on your mac, and it's not cheap.
OSX is a great OS, use it, learn it. It's very powerful.

[Root Moose]

Thanks for all the replies, I appreciate your input. One last question, while we were looking at them my wife noticed there's nowhere to insert a floppy disk and was concerned we wouldn't be able to transfer all of files over from the PC. The Mac's we were looking at were like an all in one screen (screen, ports/plugs, hard drive, speakers, cd-rom all in one unit) so it kind of threw us off. Again we're not real tech weenies (I'm jealous Root Moose!) so how would we address transferring files over to a Mac if we got one? Thanks

Yeah, floppies are pretty retro. I haven't put one in a PC since the 90s. FWIW, do you have a CD-burner in your PC? You could probably burn every floppy you own to a CD or two - or one DVD for certain.

Alternatively, you can get USB floppy for a Mac.

Sounds like you were looking at an iMac. It's a good place to be looking. Some may complain that it isn't all that upgradable but short of a larger external drive at some point in the future what do you really need/want to upgrade in it? You didn't say which model you were looking at. The 20" and larger have more video RAM available for a nominal fee. Worth it IMO.

The Mac "environment" is not like the Windows gamer environment. You don't need to upgrade every 3-6 months just to keep up with the bleeding edge hardware "just because". Hell, truthfully Windows doesn't require that either. I've got an old PIII-500 under my desk at work running XP and Office that I use to troublshoot stuff for my Windows users when they are having "strangeness". I wouldn't want to have to mix video on that platform though.

HTH

[Root Moose]

Just thinking about the floppy drive issue again. If you are planning on using the Mac for mixing digital video and images that implies you will have (or already ahve) a digital camera that uses memory cards.

Buy yourself a USB memory stick and reader that will be compatible with whatever digital devices you have or are going to purchase and transfer your floppies to the memory stick, move the reader to the Mac then copy the memory stick content to your Mac.

That way you don't have a useless USB floppy drive lying around wasting money.

JAT (Just a thought).

[Timber]

I grew up using IBMs and and it took me quite a while even to accept Windows (I generally type faster than I can point and click). My wife is a graphic designer, and therefore obviously uses Macs. Needless to say, we have Macs at home (and several older PCs). Our dual-processor G5 is incredible, and I never thought I'd admit such a thing. We have absolutely zero problems with it.

[Brad M.]

Thanks again for all the input guys. I'll be buying a Mac as soon as the wife comes around to it. Clint, I'll probably take you up on that offer. :)