Dear Mr. Obama

Take a look, words from one who was there and gave more than most...


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TG4fe9GlWS8

While I salute his service and mourn his personal loss, I must respectfully disagree. I have a cousin who is an Lt in the Army and he spent a 16 month tour in Iraq. He does not share the thoughts expressed here. And my thought on it is this. There is no justifiable reason we are there for U.S. security. We are not world police so the fact that Sadam was bad is not a reason, nor is "spreading Democracy". Plain and simple there is no just reason we should be over there. And lastly, I thought we started all this stuff to hunt down those responsible for 9-11. OK so show me Bin Laden! Oh wait who... oh we almost forgot about that guy.

While it is hard to do, I know, we must separate two things here. I can say the war was a mistake, I can argue against the war, yet I can still respect all those who fought it and lost limb or life doing so. So dont tell me I disrespect troops by saying the war is not right, because it's not so. I support our troops... support them all coming home.

SeansBlueXJ said:

While I salute his service and mourn his personal loss, I must respectfully disagree. I have a cousin who is an Lt in the Army and he spent a 16 month tour in Iraq. He does not share the thoughts expressed here. And my thought on it is this. There is no justifiable reason we are there for U.S. security. We are not world police so the fact that Sadam was bad is not a reason, nor is "spreading Democracy". Plain and simple there is no just reason we should be over there. And lastly, I thought we started all this stuff to hunt down those responsible for 9-11. OK so show me Bin Laden! Oh wait who... oh we almost forgot about that guy.

While it is hard to do, I know, we must separate two things here. I can say the war was a mistake, I can argue against the war, yet I can still respect all those who fought it and lost limb or life doing so. So dont tell me I disrespect troops by saying the war is not right, because it's not so. I support our troops... support them all coming home.

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To begin with I'm anti war for all the right reasons. Having said that, if you have to fight one, crush the enemy as quickly as possible and don't drag it on forever trying to fight a kinder gentler war.

Sadam needed to go before he did something really stupid, a megalomaniac with the means (money) to drag most of the world into another world war.
The question will always be when? Not if Sadam had to go. People can debate this ad nausium.

The conflict is far from over and may just be beginning. Broaden your world view a little. The US is in a fight for it's life on many fronts at the moment, economically, for resources and ideologically.

If you actually feel the need to capitulate, box up all your junk and send it all off to the third world and hope it's enough. But it's doubtful if you give everything you own (and everything your children may have in the future) that will be the end of it, somebody still will insist on owning you (or eliminating you) to boot.

There is an old saying (tongue in cheek) Germany is a really nice place, it would be even better without the Germans. The US is a really nice place, it would be even better without the Americans. Think about it.

I have 4 cousins in Iraq, and Afghanistan...
But I don't think that makes me any more qualified to make speculations on a war that Mainstream US only knows about from the news and High gas prices.

We were at a cease fire from the first gulf war. Saddam violated the terms of that cease fire multiple times. If we make rules and agreements then refuse to enforce them we may as well just bring all of our boys home, disband our army, navy, air force, and marines.


Or did you think it was for WMD's and terror links? Those were tools used to sell the war to the public, we had legal and moral obligations to invade iraq long before 9-11. A stable Iraq in the end will mean a more stable middle east and globe... that's just a bonus prize for doing what we said we would do at the end of the first gulf war if Saddam didn't cooperate.

muduck18 said:

I have 4 cousins in Iraq, and Afghanistan...
But I don't think that makes me any more qualified to make speculations on a war that Mainstream US only knows about from the news and High gas prices.

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I've been to many of the places you read about. The vast majority of the population has never seen a roll of toilet paper. IMO that's the cause of much of the conflict.

They say you can tell a lot about a people from it's toilet paper. The English use something like wax paper, one sheet lasts a week, the Germans use something much like a brown paper shopping bag (coarse and abrasive), Americans use multiple layers and strive for softness.

Can you imagine life without any toilet paper? They want what you have and figure without you, it will be theirs.

muduck18 said:

I have 4 cousins in Iraq, and Afghanistan...
But I don't think that makes me any more qualified to make speculations on a war that Mainstream US only knows about from the news and High gas prices.

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Oh I wasn't saying it qualified me not at all. I was just saying I can think of examples of military persons who were there that don't agree with the war and the viewpoint of the Vet shown in the video. And I also voiced my view, two separate points there. Guess I didn't make that clear.

goodburbon said:

We were at a cease fire from the first gulf war. Saddam violated the terms of that cease fire multiple times. If we make rules and agreements then refuse to enforce them we may as well just bring all of our boys home, disband our army, navy, air force, and marines.


Or did you think it was for WMD's and terror links? Those were tools used to sell the war to the public, we had legal and moral obligations to invade iraq long before 9-11. A stable Iraq in the end will mean a more stable middle east and globe... that's just a bonus prize for doing what we said we would do at the end of the first gulf war if Saddam didn't cooperate.

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:yelclap:

SeansBlueXJ said:

OK so show me Bin Laden! Oh wait who... oh we almost forgot about that guy.

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Just because the media does not report on it anymore, does not mean we forgot. The U.S. still has about 20,000 troops there backing the 75,000 strong Afghan army. There might have been a priority shift to Iraq, but trust me, we are still looking.

goodburbon said:

We were at a cease fire from the first gulf war. Saddam violated the terms of that cease fire multiple times... we had legal and moral obligations to invade Iraq long before 9-11. A stable Iraq in the end will mean a more stable middle east and globe... that's just a bonus prize for doing what we said we would do at the end of the first gulf war if Saddam didn't cooperate.

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Again, the US is not the world police. The cease fire was with UN coalition forces and the UN had the legal obligation. But they weren't working fast enough for our administration so we pushed them aside and did what we wanted. And we wonder why world opinion of the US is so low the State Dept tells travelers to pose as Canadians when abroad.

SeansBlueXJ said:

The cease fire was with UN coalition forces and the UN had the legal obligation. But they weren't working fast enough for our administration so we pushed them aside and did what we wanted.

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The UN is a joke and is well known for corruption amongst its leaders, there is a reason they drag their feet on these issues. They are bought by the governments they are supposed to police.

No it should not be the US's job to police the world but no one else wants to "man-up" so "we" have to.

I don't see the French stepping up to the plate anytime soon! The UK has always been there to help us but they are fighting the same "anti war" problems there as well.

Kittrell said:

Just because the media does not report on it anymore, does not mean we forgot. The U.S. still has about 20,000 troops there backing the 75,000 strong Afghan army. There might have been a priority shift to Iraq, but trust me, we are still looking.

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And that is the war I wont argue with. It's probably one of the few things I agree with Sen. Obama on. He says pull out of Iraq, but he also says beef up Afghanistan, and pay better attention to Iran, N Korea and the like.

8Mud said:

I've been to many of the places you read about. The vast majority of the population has never seen a roll of toilet paper. IMO that's the cause of much of the conflict.

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SO let me get this straight....they hate us because we have soft toilet paper, and they are blowing up innocent civilians so they can get some?

Wow...that is just fucked up.

red91 said:

SO let me get this straight....they hate us because we have soft toilet paper, and they are blowing up innocent civilians so they can get some?

Wow...that is just fucked up.

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It must be a lot tougher wiping with your hands than I originally thought!


Let's see, Saddam violated a cease-fire, violated the terms guaranteeing the UN inspectors the ability to come in and look around for WMDs, was a threat to the region, and I'm sure there's more. The cease-fire may have been with the UN, but who runs the UN military? Whose military makes up the vast majority of the UN's forces? The UN had no interest in holding him accountable. There's no doubt in my mind that he did have WMDs seeing as to how he used them against his own people and that was a big fear during Desert Storm as well. A WMD doesn't have to be a nuke. It's NBC, Nuclear/Biological/Chemical. So Anthrax would be considered a WMD, mustard gas, sarin gas, etc.

8Mud said:

I've been to many of the places you read about. The vast majority of the population has never seen a roll of toilet paper. IMO that's the cause of much of the conflict.

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Sorry between me reading and you posting you got in before me. it was aimed at the fellow above your post.

I truly wish I could experience more, without the fear of widowing my wife.
maybe some day...

As for the war in Iraq I'm all for it. This is how I explain IRAQ and the WMDs.
You see a guy shoot another dude in a gas station camera. Real good photos nice and clear shot of his face. Now when you finally catch him, you go looking for his gun, you can't find it. He put his weapon of destruction in the drink somewhere. Do you let him go just cause you can't find the weapon?

We know Saddam had em, we know he used em, now the SCARY question to me is, WHERE ARE THEY?!?
They didn't just disappear. Who did he sell em too?

SeansBlueXJ said:

Again, the US is not the world police. The cease fire was with UN coalition forces and the UN had the legal obligation. But they weren't working fast enough for our administration so we pushed them aside and did what we wanted. And we wonder why world opinion of the US is so low the State Dept tells travelers to pose as Canadians when abroad.

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Honestly I'm a bit sick of hearing of the world police line. From both sides!

In 1995/96 when Clinton was sending us into Bosnia, then in 1999 into Kosovo, all the Republicans screamed about us not being the worlds police.
Now for The Stan and Iraq all the Democrats are screaming the same thing.

Get over it. We have to go to other countries and keep sh*t from going crazy. Bosnia would still be a killing field if we didn't go in there, the EU was to scared to go it alone and the same with Kosovo. If someone doesn't stop these wars they start to spill into other countries then it will destabilize a region then boom, we have a full blown WW all over again.

So as long as we have the strongest military in the world, we will continue to be the worlds police. Other countries can b*tch and moan about us all they want. When they need help who is the first coutry they coming crawling to?

XJ Eric said:

As for the war in Iraq I'm all for it. This is how I explain IRAQ and the WMDs.
You see a guy shoot another dude in a gas station camera. Real good photos nice and clear shot of his face. Now when you finally catch him, you go looking for his gun, you can't find it. He put his weapon of destruction in the drink somewhere. Do you let him go just cause you can't find the weapon?

We know Saddam had em, we know he used em, now the SCARY question to me is, WHERE ARE THEY?!?
They didn't just disappear. Who did he sell em too?

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Back to Russia, by way of Syria...

"I can see Russia from my house":looney: - milf

muduck18 said:

"I can see Russia from my house":looney: - milf

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VPILF