2000 Electrical Problems, ASD / Elec Fan Pulse

[smoman]

Hey there guys...hope you can help.

I got a 2000 Jeep XJ in my driveway that I purcahsed wrecked. Hit easy on the front right. Air Bags are blown...I have fixed of few of these.

I had a bad fuel pump / sending unit...so I replaced that.

When I turn the key to the pre start position, the ASD relay pulses and sometimes my elec fan and AC pump clutch (engage clicking) will pulse with it. I have good gas to the rail. Sometimes the relay is erratic and makes the fluttering noise, like it is bad.

I crank the engine over and it wants to start and usually does not. If I am persistant and give it some gas I can get it running and it runs great...no pulsing.

Turn it off and try again, no dice. It will pulse and the relay makes a hell of alot of noise. I have swapped out 5 diff relays. I check the codes and it is not tossing any codes, but the airbag light is on. I dont think that would affect anything?

I ran new grounds everywhere, new battery and still does the same thing. When I try to start it, and it tries and fails....I figured out I have to take the key back to the off position and then run clear back to start.

I am stumped big time? Any help will be appreciated.

Steve

[smoman]

Checked a ton of plugs this morn and they alll look good and tight.

Tried to start in neutral and jiggled the shifter, does not seem to be a NSS issue.

Tested for continutiy (ground) from the black battery lead to the firewall and by the ECU...all was good there.

I got it started again, but had to give it gas while cranking it...

I am almost positive it has something to do with the ASD relay and the PCM....but cant figure out what. Everything is too erratic.

Steve

[90xj06]

maybe the iac not working???

[90xj06]

also can you post pictures of the areas hit. make it easy to figure out.

[smoman]

Here is a picture of the hit, very light. But the air bags were blown.

http://www.smoman.com/xjhit.jpg

[smoman]

I also changed the plugs and checked the coils.

I want to take the ASD relay see if a 50lb hammer fixes it.

Can it be the PCM is messing up the ASD relay and things are just not working, but are working on a pulse?

Steve

[langer1]

It could easily be a bad battery. With the engine off and the lights on test the battery voltage.

[90xj06]

check all the wires and connectors. it looks to me that things got alittle shifted.

[smoman]

I think I got it figured out. I got a test light and started poking around in the relay box. The ASD relay has to be the problem...so I dug into my memory and remmber which should be powered and which should be ground.

The PCM sends a ground to the ASD relay to close the connection and allow all the circuits to run properly.

So I took my light and tested the pins...found out the ASD relay does not get power all the time, only when the key is turned on...so this is a FYI.

I jumpered the ground, by shoving a wire in the hole and then the relay on top and then grounded the wire to the battery. Turned the key to on and all worked great...the Leak detector pumped and stopped, no fans going crazy.

The car started right up and ran...

So the PCM is not sending the ground needed to make the ASD work properly. From what i read and know, must be a bad PCM.

I hope this helps a ton of people...

Sort of a trick...since the ASD relay does not get power all the time...a quick fix and or work around would be to run a ground from the relay to the battery and the ASD will see that the system is GO all the time...this will get you out of a jam. If you look at the relay holder from the pass side fender, the far left slot is the ground. I can post a diagram if needed?

Thanks for everyone trying to help me.
Steve

[langer1]

So the PCM is not sending the ground needed to make the ASD work properly. From what i read and know, must be a bad PCM.

doubtfull the ECM has to have a good ground to send in the first place

[90xj06]

check the wire from the pcm to the asd relay. it may have been nicked in the attack.

[smoman]

I will check that wire tomorrow...I need to figure out in the book which one it is.

When you say doubtful...and ECM...I hear ECM, ECU, PCM...what is the correct name?

And why doubtfull, I tested for ground all over...and even grounded the PCM at the unit. A old time Jeep guy told me that if your not getting a ground to the ASD, it is either a bad / nicked wire or bad PCM. Please explain langer1...I want to be sure so I dont go getting a PCM and it be worthless.

Thanks again for everyones time,
Steve

[langer1]

ASD relay pulses and sometimes my elec fan and AC pump clutch (engage clicking) will pulse with it.

All this points to a bad electrical connection. Solid state outputs like used in the PCM either work or don't. 90% of the time when they fail they also fail on.
The other thing is a failed output should throw a code like ASD circuit malfunction.

[smoman]

thanks a ton...I am going to search the wire today. I have a buddy at a salvage yard that let me pull an 2000 computer with same crysler part number.

I will let you all know what the problem was.

steve

[langer1]

The ASD also has an INPUT to the ECM be sure and check that also.
With the key on its suposed to come on for only 3 seconds along with the Fuel pump relay. A short in the o2 sensor would cause a voltage drop and an the ASD to turn off early.

[smoman]

Update:

I tried the new ECM and it did not fix the problem...so I can eliminate that.

I found the ASD ground wire and did a continuity test and it came out good.

I found the 2 grounds that go to plug 1/black (pin 31 and 32) and grounded them to the battery....nothing changed.

The only way I can get the engine to work great is ground the relay out myself and it starts and runs like a champ.

Would the blown airbags be cutting the ASD out?

The O2 sensor wires looked good, all wires look good from what I can see.

Looking for more help,

Thanks
Steve

[langer1]

Could be the crash switch, look under the driverside kick panel for a black box with a reset button.

[smoman]

Just went out with a flash light and took the drivers side kick panel off and there is no crash switch there. I did not think it had one.

What other factors can effect the workings of the ASD relay?

I guess what I mean...what triggers the ECM to not allow it to work...lets just say all ground are good and there are no broken wires.

Thanks
Steve

[smoman]

I printed some detailed wiring diagrams...tonight is wire night.

but any other insight is much appreciated.

Steve

[smoman]

Well tonight was holy crap wire fest.

I check almost every plug, wire harness...cleaned. Grounded stuff, and check a ton for PCM continutiy.

I get a ground from the PCM to the ASD relay but it is week...so the only way I can have a nice functioning vehicle for now is with a inline splice to the DRK BLU/YLW wire to the chassis.

Tha is only temporarily...I will get to the bottom of this.

I did notice something that I never even looked for before....after a min of the relays and crap going nuts...I get a "NO BU5" on my dash....

Steve

[90xj06]

that is a corroded connector search in previous posts. for a fix

[smoman]

I checked for that and read all the posts.

Still no good...I did find another guy with the same issue.

Check out his last post...same as my issue to the T.

http://www.ilovejeeps.com/forums/showthread.php?p=106111#post106111

Steve

[smoman]

Anyone think it may be an igniton switch?

Smo

[scoobyxj]

Anyone think it may be an igniton switch?

Smo
Might be something to look at. The force, and poweder of the discharging airbag may have messed it up. Have you tried to run a wire from the PCM to the relay. Eliminating the possable bad wire. A few other things I would look at is the block to body ground. Just replace it they sometimes get enough internal restence to cause problems, and it's hard to tell by just checking continunity with a meter.
A bad TPS can cause it not to start, but I would think your grounding the ASD relay would have done nothing if it was bad.
I read though the passave restraint systems in my FSM, and couldn't find anything idicating a nostart condition from a deployed airbag. Keep in mind though your're going to have to replace the clock spring in the steering column even if you planning on just making it a trail rig, and not replacing the airbags.

[soarhead25]

Not really familiar with the jeep theft deterent system, but I have a hunch that's what you are fighting.
Maybe you are trying to start the car with the wrong key, and you need the factory "immobilizer" style key that is correctly programmed to the vehicle. I don't yet own a FSM for my 99 cherokee, but will be getting one soon.
Check and see if you have that option, are using the right key, and that it's programmed properly.
Factory theft deterrent systems disable the fuel injection system typically. The pcm just wont open the injectors. GM theft deterrent systems will start/stall. sounds like yours is doing something very similar. you say that there are no codes, but I bet you're using a generic OBDII type scanner. What you might need is the factory DRB-II scanner that can get into the body diagnostic controller and pull theft system codes.

There, a tree for you to bark up.

ScoobyXJ, look in your manual under theft deterrent system, and look at the diagnostic aids/info. See how the system works, what does it do to the vehicle, how to see if it is immobilizing the vehicle, and the factory procedure for programming a key. Maybe you wont need a factory scan tool, just need to leave the key in the on position for 10 minutes after a failed start attempt.
(GM sequence)

[scoobyxj]

We helped a fella out a while back that was having problems with the SKIS. If the Jeep has the system the module will be located in the seering column right at the lock cylinder. If you have a gray key then you definitly have the option, and also the Theft light will come on on the dash during the bulb check. There is no way to repair the system you have to replace it. On that note it has to be done, or taken to a dealer to program the system with a DBRIII skan tool, and software. You also can't just unplug it, 'cause the PCM is programed to only operate with the module. Basicly there is a PCM for the SKIS, and a PCM for those not equipped with it.

EDIT: There are several splices in the wiring harness on that side. I would pull open the harness, and check them. Most are located up in the corner of the fender, and firewall. I don't think there is anything in that area on the CCD buss, but there could be a short somewhere in one of the wires. I would look very carefully at the wiring in the airbag vacinity as there is CCD buss wiring there. Also the Passave restraint system comunicates to the PCM, and dash by the CCD buss. If your wondering the impact sensor is located in the air bag control module under the center console.

[smoman]

Great Ideas guys, I am going to check all that tuesday night.

I did run a wire from the PCM to the ASD and still no good.

I replaced the grounds to the block and added 2 more.

Why do you have to replace the clock spring if everything works, inc the horn. Isnt the clock spring only the means to get wire connections between your column and the streering wheel?

I have black keys and I also called the Jeep garage run my VIN and he said not chip key stuff. Good idea...

Thanks guys...I appreciate all your help !!!!

Steve

[scoobyxj]

Great Ideas guys, I am going to check all that tuesday night.

I did run a wire from the PCM to the ASD and still no good.

I replaced the grounds to the block and added 2 more.

Why do you have to replace the clock spring if everything works, inc the horn. Isnt the clock spring only the means to get wire connections between your column and the streering wheel?

I have black keys and I also called the Jeep garage run my VIN and he said not chip key stuff. Good idea...

Thanks guys...I appreciate all your help !!!!

Steve
Acording to the FSM it will more than likely be damaged even if you can't see any damage.

[smoman]

In the articel I found on another jeep post...the guy emailed me back and said it was the high pressure swtich that did the same things as mine is.

does this make sense at all?

Steve

[smoman]

the only fix I coudl do was to ground the ASD relay out so it is faked out that the PCM is sending the proper "GO" ground.

Anyone have any updates

[smoman]

Its been a few months...anyone hear of this?

[Ben H]

yes. in my case it was my PCM. Hope it is not in your case. Are your relays good?

[smoman]

Checked the relays, swapped them all out...even got another computer exaclt same model...and tried it. I re grounded everything and still persists.

the asd relay pulses, the fan clutch, and elec fan....it is driving me nuts. I grounded the asd relay to bypass it all, but it still needs fixed and I cant take it...haahahahahaha

thanks all

[smoman]

anyone...please

[cklaus]

where is the DRK BLU/Yellow wire you spliced into and grounded, is it in the harness to the main PCM (pcm means Power Control Module??or ECU correct?). you said you had a diagram and that would be great as i think i am in same boat as you. my 2000 was recently rearended and it pretty much has the same problems you have minus showing "no buss" ( tho i haven't left the keys in it for that long if it wouldn't start. i will have to check out the ASD tomorrow and see if i can figure it out. My dealership had the car for the past two weeks , threw a CPS and IAC at it and claim it works fine though i'm sure they don't wait for the car to warm up, then try to restart it (even tho i told them to). It will sorta start (weakly) from a cold start but if you try to restart it when its warm its cranking but not firing.When it does restart from a warm start i have to feather the gas pedal to keep the motor running for a while until it will idle right again. but as with yours, when the motor is running, its completely normal.

[cklaus]

i just got in from the cold ( a little snow coming across with the wind). i grounded that terminal on the ASD relay and it stopped the asd from freaking out and the car started like normal. I AM SO HAPPY... altho i would love to know whats causing the problem. i will try and check connections tomorrow. i don't have my fsm yet, only a Haynes manual and it is useless on this subject. Is there any adverse effect from the relay being jumpered long term? I know its "macguyvered" by leaving it that way so thats not an option.

[cklaus]

For anyone who finds this thread in search of the final answer.... Both Smoman's 2000 XJ and mine both had blown #22 fuses in the pdc (the fuel pump relay fuse). Replacing the fuse fixed the ASD pulsing and Alternator issues.(at idle the alt put out 15.8 volts in mine and the gauge in the cluster would drop down to 0 volts intermittently... new fuse and is normal)