Texas Mexico border fence

[Ecomike]

Well it seems the Republicans have done it again. The law was passed in 2006 (Republic controlled House, Senate and White House), before the Democrats took back the House in 2007.

From what I saw tonight on PBS and just read, the fence law gives the Head of Homeland security 100% dictatorial power over building the fence, and contracts the entire border partial fence, partial camera, patial advance detection system virtual fence design and installation and land grab, into one contract to Boeing. I thought they built airplanes not fences?

30 US national laws were made invalide, waved deleted, made not applical to the building of the partial fence, in other words even the land owners whos property is being cut in half, or worse, by the fence have no say in the matter. Seems they want to run the fence such that it puts or leaves US land on the Mexico side of the fence! Hell lets just give Texas back to Mexico and get it over with! The owns of affected property don't even have the right to go to court because the fence law outlawed it.

http://www.pbs.org/now/shows/432/index.html

"In 2006, Congress authorized the Secure Fence Act - a multi-billion dollar plan to build hundreds of miles of fencing along the southern border of the United States to stem the flow of undocumented immigrants and provide security from potential terrorism. But what was built to fight illegal immigration has turned into a nightmare for many Americans living along the U.S.-Mexico border. The fence, which will cover less than half of the actual border, inexplicably cuts through the middle of some properties, while leaving others untouched. Many question if it can keep people from sneaking in at all."

"NOW senior correspondent Maria Hinojosa travels to Texas to meet border families who fear losing their property, their safety, and their way of life. We also follow an investigative reporter who questions whether certain landowners are getting preferential treatment.

Is America's border fence working, or an utter waste?"

From what I saw and read tonight I think we would have been better off contracting the fence job and security out to the UAE, or better yet just contract it out to Mexico like the Republicans did the the coming Trans National Corridor, which will basically split the USA in half (like the Russians just did to Georgia) with a Mexican owned and operated superhighway from Mexico city to Chicago . :rolleyes:

Even the US boarder patrol guys they interviewed said it is a mucked up mess.

"Securing the nation’s borders is so important, Congress says, that Michael Chertoff (http://topics.nytimes.com/top/reference/timestopics/people/c/michael_chertoff/index.html?inline=nyt-per), the homeland security secretary, must have the power to ignore any laws that stand in the way of building a border fence. Any laws at all!

Last week, Mr. Chertoff issued waivers suspending more than 30 laws he said could interfere with “the expeditious construction of barriers” in Arizona (http://topics.nytimes.com/top/news/national/usstatesterritoriesandpossessions/arizona/index.html?inline=nyt-geo), California (http://topics.nytimes.com/top/news/national/usstatesterritoriesandpossessions/california/index.html?inline=nyt-geo), New Mexico (http://topics.nytimes.com/top/news/national/usstatesterritoriesandpossessions/newmexico/index.html?inline=nyt-geo) and Texas (http://topics.nytimes.com/top/news/national/usstatesterritoriesandpossessions/texas/index.html?inline=nyt-geo). The list included laws protecting the environment, endangered species, migratory birds, the bald eagle, antiquities, farms, deserts, forests, Native American graves and religious freedom.
The secretary of homeland security was granted the power in 2005 to void any federal law that might interfere with fence building on the border. For good measure, Congress forbade the courts to second-guess the secretary’s determinations. So long as Mr. Chertoff is willing to say it is necessary to void a given law, his word is final.
The delegation of power to Mr. Chertoff is unprecedented, according to a report (http://graphics8.nytimes.com/packages/pdf/national/20080408_CRS_report.pdf) from the Congressional Research Service. It is also, if papers filed in the Supreme Court (http://topics.nytimes.com/top/reference/timestopics/organizations/s/supreme_court/index.html?inline=nyt-org) last month are correct, unconstitutional."


For more on this see:
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/04/08/us/08bar.html?ex=1365566400&en=65b843e498167621&ei=5124&partner=permalink&exprod=permalink

[Mudderoy]

Our government does few things right, of they'll get it done but at a huge cost and sometimes at the expense of lives. Politics = stupidity.

With that said, they need to get that fence built! It should have gone up on 9/12 the day after the attacks.

The borders need to been enforced by border patrol and the national guard until trespassing is suspended for all practical purposes.

Once that is done then congress needs to pass laws that...

1) Allow people into the country to work.
2) Harsh penalties to employers that hire illegal workers.
3) Allow the illegals here to sign up for work permits, and pay a hefty fine. They are also moved to the back of the line to be allowed here legally.

#1 will suck for employers, because they will have to pay a FAIR wage!
which means they are more likely to pay your kid for a part time job
instead of paying an illegal 1/4 the pay.
#2 will suck for the employers.
#3 Sucks for the illegals since they aren't making much money anyway, but
it is better than being deported, or put in jail. What they have done is
illegal and this is an easy way out for both of us.

What will really suck is for Mexico. With more Mexicans staying in Mexico maybe they will force their government to get their head out of their asses and run the country that makes it better for ALL their people instead of just the rich.

I have in-laws that live in a nice house (in Mexico), but have to make sure they take a shower before 6pm. 6pm is when the water is turned off! What kind of crap is that!?!?!? The water pressure was crap! Wow, those are really nice people and if I had the money, and they'd actually move here, I'd put them up in nice house with water pressure that would remove skin! :D

[jmfelty]

The most ironic part is the thought that either party cares to do the right thing for the country and do not operate to the exclusive benefit of special interest groups. Further, the laws quoted as being waived are paradoxical all used freely to impact the property rights that are later identified in bold print as a reason to object the the construction of the wall. The wall has significant problems in design and implementation most of which are not related to the suspension of the aforementioned environmental laws, but the consolidation of power in a single bureaucracy.

[BIgDaddyChia]

Mike remind me not to talk politics with u when we meet. We might kill each other.

[Ecomike]

The most ironic part is the thought that either party cares to do the right thing for the country and do not operate to the exclusive benefit of special interest groups. Further, the laws quoted as being waived are paradoxical all used freely to impact the property rights that are later identified in bold print as a reason to object the the construction of the wall. The wall has significant problems in design and implementation most of which are not related to the suspension of the aforementioned environmental laws, but the consolidation of power in a single bureaucracy.

Interesting point on the paradox, that is true.

The problems I see are the enormous damage this law does to the constitution, and to the separation of powers of the three branches, as it uses one branch to tell a second branch that the second branch can ignore the other two branches, ignor all laws of the land and do what ever the F*ck it wants to do while building a fence.

It basically gives the head of Homeland security the power and authority to create a deadly zone radiation a few miles wide along the US Mexico border should he decide that is the best way to secure the border.

The farm and home owners they interviewed basically said the government came in said we are going to run the fence across, meaning through, the middle of your propety, so imagine the house is on one side and the farm is on the other with a fence separating your farm from the house and barn you keep the tractor in. So the question became how do you get back and forth from the barn to the farm land with the tractor if there is a fence in the way? One lady was going to end up with her house on the Mexico side of the fence. She is retired and in ill health. She was trying to figure out how an ambulance would reach her if she and her house are on the wrong side of the fence. No one in the government could give her an answer because they had contracted out the job to an autonomous for profit company who was responsible for all the design and installation. One of the multimillion dollar mistakes Boeing already made on the camera systems seems to be because they never consulted with the US border patrol to find out what they needed.

I don't get why they would abondon US land belonging to US citizens to the Mexico side of the fence. I bet if there was oil on that land the fence would be placed at the US/Mexico border, not through a US citizens property effectively donating most of their property to Mexico. Also they were only offering to pay these people for the loss of a few feet of easment for the fence. There is no reimbursement to them for property that gets abondoned to the other side of the fence. One family already lost a bunch of acres ( I forget the number) to the fence and Mexico.

[Ecomike]

Mike remind me not to talk politics with u when we meet. We might kill each other.

Speaking of politics, I take it you won't be running for office anytime soon? :D

Just kidding.

[POLARBEAR]

yes,

and they are building it using chinese steel, lots of people upset

[fscrig75]

The fence is a joke. All that fence is going to do is push the crossers farther out into the desert to go around it, which is going to cause more people to die.
The border does need to be secured but honestly I don't think there is a good way to do it.
1) Put them in jail. I'd rather have them out working than sitting in jail wasting my tax dollars
2) Ship them back across. Thats what they do now, and they just come right back.
3) National Guard on the borders. Yea New Mexico tried that, it helped but they didn't have authority to do anything just call BP


1) Allow people into the country to work.
2) Harsh penalties to employers that hire illegal workers.
3) Allow the illegals here to sign up for work permits, and pay a hefty fine. They are also moved to the back of the line to be allowed here legally.

I do like these ideas, but I'm sure the ACLU would never allow them.

A town in PA, passed a law last year that would allow the town to levy hefty fines against landlords for renting to illegals, well the ACLU sued the town in federal court and won.
http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2007-07-26-pa-immigration_N.htm

I do completely HATE the eminent domain laws. It is utterly ridiculous to take people's property from them, if they want to build a fence build it on the river banks. Though I believe that the government is required to pay far market value for the property. These laws predate the constitution and have been somewhat limited but will probably never disappear.

But the republicans are not the only ones using eminent domain. The city of El Paso, my current home, wants to take private property in the down town area to rebuild/revitalize the city. And the city government is behind this hair brain idea, and they are all Dems.
http://www.newspapertree.com/opinion/1263-downtown-plan-or-land-grab

Something does need to be done. I don't know what the answer is though.
But if you think a fence between the US and Mexico is bad you ought to drive through El Paso and try to get out of that area, El Paso/Las Cruses/Deming without any ID. There are border patrol check points on EVERY road leading out of that area, and all vehicles get stopped, you get asked if you are a citizen and show ID. How crazy is that!

[JohnJohn]

Just let the border patrol start shooting people. They'll stop coming.

Links to articles at pbs.org make me not want to read them. Sorry.

[fscrig75]

From what I saw tonight on PBS and just read, the fence law gives the Head of Homeland security 100% dictatorial power over building the fence, and contracts the entire border partial fence, partial camera, patial advance detection system virtual fence design and installation and land grab, into one contract to Boeing. I thought they built airplanes not fences?

I didn't see the PBS show so I'm not sure what area they said the fence is going up in but in southern Cal, its not being built by Boeing.
http://www.cnn.com/2008/US/08/16/border.fence.ap/index.html

[DrMoab]

The fence is a joke. All that fence is going to do is push the crossers farther out into the desert to go around it, which is going to cause more people to die.
GOOD!

Maybe if they know they will die they will quit trying. If they keep trying...Darwin at his best.

[Original_MudButt]

Just let the border patrol start shooting people. They'll stop coming.

Eventually yes, but for now they just whine and demand.....

http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/mexico/tijuana/20080814-9999-1m14rocks.html

I think this is how ALL attacks at the border should be handled..... Except BP needs to shoot to kill..... Sorry, just my opinion. If you don't like it, tough.

Rule #2 of the Mountain Minutemen Patrol, Patriot Point Posse: If they throw rocks you throw lead.

The border hoppers are not tossing pebbles to make our BP well up with tears and run away. They are tossing chunks of concrete with the intention of great bodily injury or death.

In some parts of the world what these a-holes do on a daily basis would be considered an act of war.

Did you know they are stringing wire across the road between the double fences near San Diego? The BP patrols the road on quads and the wire is strung at neck level.......

""It was configured in a way so that, if it was pulled, it would take off the head of a Border Patrol agent......"
http://www.cnn.com/2008/US/02/13/border.wire/index.html

[ehall]

It's good to hear they are not going to let a bunch of lawsuits tie up defense of the nation. Now I just wish congress could pass these kinds of laws for nuke plants too.

[Ecomike]

I do completely HATE the eminent domain laws. It is utterly ridiculous to take people's property from them, if they want to build a fence build it on the river banks. Though I believe that the government is required to pay far market value for the property. These laws predate the constitution and have been somewhat limited but will probably never disappear.

But the republicans are not the only ones using eminent domain. The city of El Paso, my current home, wants to take private property in the down town area to rebuild/revitalize the city. And the city government is behind this hair brain idea, and they are all Dems.
http://www.newspapertree.com/opinion/1263-downtown-plan-or-land-grab

Something does need to be done. I don't know what the answer is though.
But if you think a fence between the US and Mexico is bad you ought to drive through El Paso and try to get out of that area, El Paso/Las Cruses/Deming without any ID. There are border patrol check points on EVERY road leading out of that area, and all vehicles get stopped, you get asked if you are a citizen and show ID. How crazy is that!

I didn't know there were any elected Dems left in Texas.:eek:

Its been my experience the city elections are not Dem / Rep issue based, the candidates are not party affiliated, the city elections are in off years, and are mostly driven by local issues, not by National Dem / Rep party.

Anyway, it's the emminent domain issue and the constituional issues I was trying to cover topic wise in this thread, not the immigration issue, which in my opion is just a politcal football that both parties play with during elections, then put it on the shelf for reuse later like they do other issues, but both parties know the real truth that big businness wants and needs the emmigrants here, and they have $$$$s and MUCHO lobbyists.

The problem is that the government repeatedly lets developers buy the land for nearly nothing, or just take it with out adequite compensation to those who end up loosing their property.

The issue that got my attention with this story was this one guys family farm was getting cut in two, leaving 90% of this guys acreage on the Mexico side, and only compensating him for less that 1% of the property he was in effect loosing, and the law did not allow him to sue for adequite compensation. That is just not right. They only compensated him for the 4 foot stip they put the fence on.

I seem to remember something in the constituiton about the Government being prohibited from a taking with out due process of law. This new law outlawed due process of law.

I guess we could call what Russia is doing to Georgia right now an act of emminant domain as justification for confiscated the land.

[Kittrell]

We don't need a "fence", we need a great wall of China. Or did anyone see Dooms Day? Something like that would work quite nicely. I'd have no issues building it 500 feet off the border to encompass a "Kill Zone". Signs and chain fence on the actual border to warn them. From the coast to the gulf.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v690/Jeep1991/doomsday-1.jpg

[XJEEPER]

Paradox.....yes.

We don't uphold the existing laws (thanks to the ACLU and the rest of the Socialist party that prefers the term "illegal immigrant" over low-paid slaves) that prevent the invasion from the South, but we allow our elected officials to make new laws that further penalize the tax paying legal US citizens/property owners.

So let's break this down.

Entry into the US from Mexico is illegal.

If you enter the US illegally (illegal), bring your family (illegal) and get a job here (illegal), then you've become less illegal and the US Government is hesitant to send you home, because you have successfully stolen a SS number of a legal US Citizen (illegal) to get a job.

With a SS#, technically you can vote (illegal) and if you do vote, you will vote for the Socialist movement that wants you to not get deported because they now get to keep 35-40% of your earnings that they will never have to give back.

If you have a baby in the US (illegal) the baby is a Citizen and the government or the hospital (welfare, taxes, increased healthcare fees), will pay for the healthcare of the baby.

The US citizen cry out for closing the border, the government spends more of their money to apease them, with little more results than a $49 Billion(increased taxes) dollar detour sign to divert the 1.2 million annual border crossing arrests to Arizona, New Mexico and Texas.

Border Patrol agents who are shot at or otherwise threatened are hesitant in using the deadly force to protect themselves and the US Border, because our own Judicial system favors the rights of the invaders over our agents.
Officer Ramos and Officer Campean ring any bells?

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2008/may/15/pardon-ramos-and-compean/

http://ramos-compean.blogspot.com/

Irony......
I ordered a Spicy Chicken sandwich at Wendy's in Jackson Hole last week, the cook needed a translator to make the sandwich correctly, it only took them twice. As I sat there munching, I thought to myself........if I moved to Mexico, I could not do so without legal documentation and I would have to learn Spanish, just to get a job. If we are not being invaded, why are labels, billboards and menu's being offering in English and Spanish? Why are US Citizens being forced to bend and conform, while those invading our country do not?

The parable we learn of the frog in the boiling water comes to mind.......or the Trojan Horse. Very impressive tactical warfare........so many parallells exist and they all arrive at the same end.

The loss of our Freedom.

[scottmcneal]

Enjoying your $5.00/gal gas? Send Congress a thank you note


They are going to lower the price as soon as a demcrap gets in office... RIGHT MIKE...Pull your head out sir.. We need to stop people from coming an going when they want.. I'm talking the guys that want you and me dead.. You know the ( terrorists ) the ones that few planes into the towers.. WE need bigger fences if you ask me

[XJEEPER]

The whole Congress, fuel price thing..........they can't really just lower the price once a Dem is elected.
The association with Congress (R and D alike) and fuel prices is that they have allowed themselves to be bribed and brainwashed by the eco-terroists who have been successful in halting oil exploration on US soil, as well as restricting new refineries from being built to keep up demand.
Same eco-logic applies to coal and nuclear, and now they say the windmills are ugly and kill birds so it appears that the only "eco-friendly" option left is solar........and since solar power technology is still very limited.......we should all just revert back to the way folks lived in the early 1800's......except that the main sources of energy then were coal, which is now evil, and timber, which we can use because that kills trees.

There is no way to please the eco-terrorists, because their agendas do not support the existence of mankind and industry. We must do the right thing for the country and our Freedoms, and stop catering to the PC socialist agendas that have wormed their way into the fabric of our government.

[buschwhaked]

I thought the freemarket determined oil prices...unless I missed the memo on having a state-run oil industry...

And are you trying to connect migrant workers to terrorism? Paranoid much? If I was an illegal worker coming north, I sure as hell would want Ahmed Terrorist coming with me. Then the Americans will sure as shit close the border down. It would be in my best interest to see that doesn't happen.

[8Mud]

You go ahead and put up the best fence you can build, I'll bet on some Mexican with a few dollars worth of nails and pile of scrap lumber.

[Nuke Proof]

Paradox.....yes.

We don't uphold the existing laws (thanks to the ACLU and the rest of the Socialist party that prefers the term "illegal immigrant" over low-paid slaves) that prevent the invasion from the South, but we allow our elected officials to make new laws that further penalize the tax paying legal US citizens/property owners.

So let's break this down.

Entry into the US from Mexico is illegal.

If you enter the US illegally (illegal), bring your family (illegal) and get a job here (illegal), then you've become less illegal and the US Government is hesitant to send you home, because you have successfully stolen a SS number of a legal US Citizen (illegal) to get a job.

With a SS#, technically you can vote (illegal) and if you do vote, you will vote for the Socialist movement that wants you to not get deported because they now get to keep 35-40% of your earnings that they will never have to give back.

If you have a baby in the US (illegal) the baby is a Citizen and the government or the hospital (welfare, taxes, increased healthcare fees), will pay for the healthcare of the baby.

The US citizen cry out for closing the border, the government spends more of their money to apease them, with little more results than a $49 Billion(increased taxes) dollar detour sign to divert the 1.2 million annual border crossing arrests to Arizona, New Mexico and Texas.

Border Patrol agents who are shot at or otherwise threatened are hesitant in using the deadly force to protect themselves and the US Border, because our own Judicial system favors the rights of the invaders over our agents.
Officer Ramos and Officer Campean ring any bells?

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2008/may/15/pardon-ramos-and-compean/

http://ramos-compean.blogspot.com/

Irony......
I ordered a Spicy Chicken sandwich at Wendy's in Jackson Hole last week, the cook needed a translator to make the sandwich correctly, it only took them twice. As I sat there munching, I thought to myself........if I moved to Mexico, I could not do so without legal documentation and I would have to learn Spanish, just to get a job. If we are not being invaded, why are labels, billboards and menu's being offering in English and Spanish? Why are US Citizens being forced to bend and conform, while those invading our country do not?

The parable we learn of the frog in the boiling water comes to mind.......or the Trojan Horse. Very impressive tactical warfare........so many parallells exist and they all arrive at the same end.

The loss of our Freedom.



That sounds like something I said on the Olympic thread...

[Jeep XJ_YJ]

doesn't comply with the main goal. NAU

[Ecomike]

You go ahead and put up the best fence you can build, I'll bet on some Mexican with a few dollars worth of nails and pile of scrap lumber.

:laugh3:

Or a good rope! :laugh3:

I recall a number of years ago they discovered a huge super long tunnel under the border that had been used by the top drug lord in Mexico for years, to get back and forth and to smuggle cocaine in the US.

[Jester99]

I don't see a fence going up ever or anymore security being added than there is now. What I do see in the future is the United States, Mexico, and Canada forming one gigantic country with one currency system to compete with the European Union and the Euro. If you think that's a crazy idea read more into it. It has already started with the trans-continental highway that runs from Mexico through our heartland and into Canada.

I mean lets face it, why else wouldn't they already be putting up a stronger border? We've sent all of our manufacturing jobs to Mexico and we've got 20+million immigrants working in our fields, kitchens and factories(not meaning to sound racist at all). I seriously doubt Canada will give a damn about joining the Union because they are neutral and liberal. Even if they don't comply it's the American way to move in with our Abrams, F-16's and our M-16's and force you to submit to want America wants.

All of chess pieces are on the board now. The only thing we are waiting on is the key player to come along, and checkmate...

[fscrig75]

I didn't know there were any elected Dems left in Texas.:eek:

http://www.senate.state.tx.us/75r/senate/members/dist29/dist29.htm (http://www.senate.state.tx.us/75r/senate/members/dist29/dist29.htm)
Congressional District 16--Congressman Silvestre Reyes

Its been my experience the city elections are not Dem / Rep issue based, the candidates are not party affiliated, the city elections are in off years, and are mostly driven by local issues, not by National Dem / Rep party.

You are probably right about that, but our Mayor is a Dem.


Anyway, it's the emminent domain issue and the constituional issues I was trying to cover topic wise in this thread, not the immigration issue, which in my opion is just a politcal football that both parties play with during elections, then put it on the shelf for reuse later like they do other issues, but both parties know the real truth that big businness wants and needs the emmigrants here, and they have $$$$s and MUCHO lobbyists.

Yep 100% correct. If they didn't have illegals then they, big business, would have to actually pay everyone minimum wage, benifits, etc, instead of the dirt they pay them now.


The problem is that the government repeatedly lets developers buy the land for nearly nothing, or just take it with out adequite compensation to those who end up loosing their property.

Yea thats what El Paso wants to do. They want to give them the value of the property now, the city is going to fix up the property and sell it for a killing. If the government is going to take property and sell it for a profit, all that money should go to the former owner. But more importanly they should NOT take the property in the first place.





The issue that got my attention with this story was this one guys family farm was getting cut in two, leaving 90% of this guys acreage on the Mexico side, and only compensating him for less that 1% of the property he was in effect loosing, and the law did not allow him to sue for adequite compensation. That is just not right. They only compensated him for the 4 foot stip they put the fence on.

I haven't heard anything about that. The city government won't talk about taking peoples property because thats what they want to do downtown. But the b*tch and moan about any fence since it will cut off our "sister city". I'm against the fence but we, El Paso, need to cut off that "sister city" crap, Juarez is nothing but a war zone.
http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/world/la-fg-innocents16-2008jul16,0,4608414.story?page=1



I seem to remember something in the constituiton about the Government being prohibited from a taking with out due process of law. This new law outlawed due process of law.

Actually it says: "...nor shall private property be taken for public use, without just compensation". The Fifth Amendment did not create the national government's right to use the eminent domain power, it simply limited it to public use.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eminent_domain

I guess we could call what Russia is doing to Georgia right now an act of emminant domain as justification for confiscated the land.

[XJEEPER]

I thought the freemarket determined oil prices...unless I missed the memo on having a state-run oil industry...

And are you trying to connect migrant workers to terrorism? Paranoid much? If I was an illegal worker coming north, I sure as hell would want Ahmed Terrorist coming with me. Then the Americans will sure as shit close the border down. It would be in my best interest to see that doesn't happen.

Right. And the less of our own oil we have available for US consumption, the more we will pay at the pump.

While our Southern border is a joke, my reference to terrorists in this thread is the eco-terrorist movement. It's not parnoia, its fact. It's what's behind massive landclosures, wilderness creation where there are documented roads and trails, oil and gas rights being restricted by litigation, offshore and inland drilling freezes, prohibition of coal and natural gas exploration, BLM land management minipulation thru litigation.

Calling it anything less than eco-terrorism is pandering to the PC crowd.

As for the border........

Al-Qaida and other terrorist groups began infiltrating Mexico in the days after 9/11. By 2003, Canadian intelligence officials and Interpol told Mexican President Vincente Fox that al-Qaida had established several cells in Mexico to prepare for the next terrorist attacks, Williams tells readers.



Meanwhile hundreds of Tzozil Indians in southern Mexico converted to Islam and reportedly became involved in subversive activities. By 2004, al-Qaida cells were in place in northern Mexico and a large cell of Hezbollah was in Tijuana, on the U.S. border of California. The Muslim radicals enlisted the aid of Latino gangs, including Mara Salvatrucha, to help them slip across the border.

According to Williams, the going rate for such service was from $30,000 to $50,000, but it included a bogus matricular consular, an official ID card issued by the Mexican government that enables Mexican nationals in the U.S. to obtain drivers licenses and open bank accounts.

Steve McCraw, assistant director of the FBI's Office of Intelligence, told the House Judiciary Committee in June 2003:
"The ability of foreign nationals to use the matricular consular provides an opportunity for terrorists to move freely within the United States without triggering name-based watch lists that are disseminated to local police officials."

Mexico has also become a conduit for aliens from terror-sponsoring states, known as "special-interest aliens," or SIAs. By 2006, a popular entry route from Mexico into Arizona was littered with "discarded Muslim prayer rugs, pages from the Quran, instructions in Arabic on how to cross the Rio Grande, and beverage boxes with Farsi and Arabic letters," writes Williams, a seasoned investigative reporter and former FBI consultant.
Due to a lack of detention facilities, those SIAs that are apprehended — who have numbered in the thousands in recent years — are released from custody after receiving hearing dates from immigration judges. Fewer than 5 percent actually show up for their hearing. The rest simply vanish.

Texas Rep. Solomon Ortiz, a Democrat on the House Armed Services Committee's Subcommittee on Readiness, said the release of Middle Easterners with possible links to al-Qaida is "very, very scary and members of Congress know about this."

In April 2004, the FBI arrested al-Qaida operative Mohammed Junaid Babar, after he returned to New York City from a terrorist summit meeting in Pakistan. He told interrogators that al-Qaida was preparing a nuclear attack on American cities. He also said the terrorists were relying on Latino gangs, most notably Mara Salvatrucha, to transport the operatives, along with nuclear supplies, across the U.S.-Mexican border. Another captured terrorist later confirmed Babar's account. And both men said the plot was being directed by Adnan el-Shukrijumah, the man profiled in a NewsMax story last week — whom Williams calls "the most dangerous person in the Western world."

[Ecomike]

Right. And the less of our own oil we have available for US consumption, the more we will pay at the pump.

While our Southern border is a joke, my reference to terrorists in this thread is the eco-terrorist movement. It's not parnoia, its fact. It's what's behind massive landclosures, wilderness creation where there are documented roads and trails, oil and gas rights being restricted by litigation, offshore and inland drilling freezes, prohibition of coal and natural gas exploration, BLM land management minipulation thru litigation.

Calling it anything less than eco-terrorism is pandering to the PC crowd.

As for the border........

Al-Qaida and other terrorist groups began infiltrating Mexico in the days after 9/11. By 2003, Canadian intelligence officials and Interpol told Mexican President Vincente Fox that al-Qaida had established several cells in Mexico to prepare for the next terrorist attacks, Williams tells readers.


Meanwhile hundreds of Tzozil Indians in southern Mexico converted to Islam and reportedly became involved in subversive activities. By 2004, al-Qaida cells were in place in northern Mexico and a large cell of Hezbollah was in Tijuana, on the U.S. border of California. The Muslim radicals enlisted the aid of Latino gangs, including Mara Salvatrucha, to help them slip across the border.

According to Williams, the going rate for such service was from $30,000 to $50,000, but it included a bogus matricular consular, an official ID card issued by the Mexican government that enables Mexican nationals in the U.S. to obtain drivers licenses and open bank accounts.

Steve McCraw, assistant director of the FBI's Office of Intelligence, told the House Judiciary Committee in June 2003:
"The ability of foreign nationals to use the matricular consular provides an opportunity for terrorists to move freely within the United States without triggering name-based watch lists that are disseminated to local police officials."

Mexico has also become a conduit for aliens from terror-sponsoring states, known as "special-interest aliens," or SIAs. By 2006, a popular entry route from Mexico into Arizona was littered with "discarded Muslim prayer rugs, pages from the Quran, instructions in Arabic on how to cross the Rio Grande, and beverage boxes with Farsi and Arabic letters," writes Williams, a seasoned investigative reporter and former FBI consultant.
Due to a lack of detention facilities, those SIAs that are apprehended — who have numbered in the thousands in recent years — are released from custody after receiving hearing dates from immigration judges. Fewer than 5 percent actually show up for their hearing. The rest simply vanish.

Texas Rep. Solomon Ortiz, a Democrat on the House Armed Services Committee's Subcommittee on Readiness, said the release of Middle Easterners with possible links to al-Qaida is "very, very scary and members of Congress know about this."

In April 2004, the FBI arrested al-Qaida operative Mohammed Junaid Babar, after he returned to New York City from a terrorist summit meeting in Pakistan. He told interrogators that al-Qaida was preparing a nuclear attack on American cities. He also said the terrorists were relying on Latino gangs, most notably Mara Salvatrucha, to transport the operatives, along with nuclear supplies, across the U.S.-Mexican border. Another captured terrorist later confirmed Babar's account. And both men said the plot was being directed by Adnan el-Shukrijumah, the man profiled in a NewsMax story last week — whom Williams calls "the most dangerous person in the Western world."

Sounds to me like proof that the Rebublicans have been sleeping on the job since 9/11!:rattle:

Time to let the Democrats work on the problem.:D

I guess you consider me one of those Eco-Terrorists too?
signed ECOMIKE
:wave1:

[DrMoab]

I guess you consider me one of those Eco-Terrorists too?
signed ECOMIKE
:wave1:
Yes.

[Ecomike]

Yes.

:bawl:

[JohnJohn]

Sounds to me like proof that the Rebublicans have been sleeping on the job since 9/11!:rattle:

Time to let the Democrats work on the problem.:D

I guess you consider me one of those Eco-Terrorists too?
signed ECOMIKE
:wave1:

In the 90's the Dem's where like night watchman who slept on the job while stuff got stolen. Then they blamed the day guard for having a better shift then they do.

[Darky]

:laugh3:

Or a good rope! :laugh3:

I recall a number of years ago they discovered a huge super long tunnel under the border that had been used by the top drug lord in Mexico for years, to get back and forth and to smuggle cocaine in the US.
That tunnel was near Nogales if I recall correctly.

[XJEEPER]

Sounds to me like proof that the Rebublicans have been sleeping on the job since 9/11!:rattle:

Time to let the Democrats work on the problem.:D

I guess you consider me one of those Eco-Terrorists too?
signed ECOMIKE
:wave1:

If the sandal fits........by their fruits ye shall know them.

I've been hopeful that the Democrats that were elected 2 years ago would follow thru with all the promises they made to get elected.......all I see is an OZ-like performance to divert the public's focus from the real issues that plague our nation.

Got public approval rating for our current Congress? Try 14%.......

http://www.gallup.com/poll/108856/Congressional-Approval-Hits-RecordLow-14.aspx

What's really sad, is that it's even lower that GW's 28% rating........

[Ecomike]

If the sandal fits........by their fruits ye shall know them.

I've been hopeful that the Democrats that were elected 2 years ago would follow thru with all the promises they made to get elected.......all I see is an OZ-like performance to divert the public's focus from the real issues that plague our nation.

Got public approval rating for our current Congress? Try 14%.......

http://www.gallup.com/poll/108856/Congressional-Approval-Hits-RecordLow-14.aspx

What's really sad, is that it's even lower that GW's 28% rating........

True or false, I keep hearing that the Republicans in the senate keep filibustering to kill democratic legislation attempts. The democrats are hoping and trying to get 60 senate seats in November, to have a filibuster proof senate. Then they could pass the legislation they promised 2 years ago, and with Obama in office it would get signed into law instead of vetoed.

[XJEEPER]

True or false, I keep hearing that the Republicans in the senate keep filibustering to kill democratic legislation attempts. The democrats are hoping and trying to get 60 senate seats in November, to have a filibuster proof senate. Then they could pass the legislation they promised 2 years ago, and with Obama in office it would get signed into law instead of vetoed.

Right.....typical R VS D blabber. I'm an Independent.

They all had a chance to do some good regarding oil exploration last week, which has proven to directly effect fuel prices and every other thing that is associated with increase fuel costs i.e. everything that we consume......but vacation was much more important, which is the equivelent of giving We the People the middle finger.

See, I don't care what your party label is, I care that you were elected do what's best for our country, not the lobbyists, not the special interest groups and not your re-election campaign.

I don't want to pay for other people stupidity or mis-management of their personal life, nor do I want to have money taken from me and doled out to someone who is happy to not lift a finger to help themselves. The solution to our country's financial problems is not tax more, it's spend less. Start with less government programs that promote and encourage dependence on a "system". The Robin Hood system is a myth, it doesn't work.

[JohnJohn]

True or false, I keep hearing that the Republicans in the senate keep filibustering to kill democratic legislation attempts. The democrats are hoping and trying to get 60 senate seats in November, to have a filibuster proof senate. Then they could pass the legislation they promised 2 years ago, and with Obama in office it would get signed into law instead of vetoed.

You guys got that from 76 to 80. Nice work, If I remember right the Iranians were REEALLY scared of you guys then too. My parents loved WAITING LINE for expensive gas(relatively speaking).