Japan whines about being nuked

[Trail-Axe]

It always amazes me how many people condemn the USA for dropping two A-bombs on Japan. Those imperialist thugs attack us first, drag us into a war we were not involved in, kill our young men so they can rule the world, and then they have the gull some 64 years later to tell us we need to disarm? Give me a break! If they had won the war (IE: we did not nuke them), do you really think they would have allowed us to continue on as a free democratic nation? No way, we would all be speaking Japanese, and worshipping there emperor. And its not like they left us much of a choice, we dropped one bomb, and still they would not surrender (too much pride), so then we drop another, and then they finally surrender, but even still their military leaders wanted to fight till the last man. Ya civilians died, too bad, very sad, but don't put that on the USA, it was Japan that thought it could rule the world. And now they want the USA and Russia to disarm? Why, so Iran, China, and North Korea can rule the world? I am sure glad I do not own any Japanese cars!

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20080809/wl_nm/japan_nagasaki_dc_1 (http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20080809/wl_nm/japan_nagasaki_dc_1)

[5-90]

People overlook a simple factor - national psychology.

Up to that point, Japan hadn't lost a war with anyhone, and their national idea of bushido wouldn't entertain the idea of defeat.

Yes, what we did to Hiroshima and Nagasaki was horrific. Yes, in two days we killed something like a quarter of a million people with two warshots. No, I'm not saying it was a good thing.

However, while it's true that Germany and Italy had already capitulated 9leaving Japan the only threat,) we needed to deal some variety of massively shocking blow to the Japanese national psyche to get the idea through to them that they were going to lose. Killing a quarter-million people in the space of three days (06AUG-08AUG1945) was a good way to do just that - and we did get some infrastructure there as well

Could we have won conventionally? Sure - probably given another five years, taking the Pacific by the inch west of Guadalcanal, and at the cost of about a million and a half more lives and the GDP of several small countries in materiel and ordnance.

Japan whines about being nuked? 1) It was the only way to get through to them and end the war. One thing being another, I'd rather see 250,000 deaths wholesale than 1,500,000 deaths retail. 2) It was the only way we could get through to them - honestly, if they had been willing to admit defeat earlier on (with the loss of their two principal allies,) we wouldn't have had to. So, you can probably say with all honesty that they brought it on themselves.

And disarm? While I don't like having nukes around any more than anyone else, the genie is out of the bottle. Any disarmament is going to be unilateral - someone somewhere is going to keep their nukes, and what was onces the work of geniuses and visionaries is now the work of a master tradesman - and that's for nuclear explosive payloads. That's not counting "dirty" bombs or anything like that.

There are only two (OK, three) ways a nuclear peace can be enforced:

1) Everybody everywhere destroys every single one of their nuclear payloads, and the instructions for making them, and the people who have even a good understanding of the ideas involved (including me - I've studied some nuclear physics, and have a middlin' understanding of the forces involved. I can't make a nuke from scratch, but I can get a good prototype going and it can be sorted out from there...) and all of the "dual-use" equipment that goes into making them that is usable for other projects as well (hot-freon sublimation equipment for separating isotopes of radioactives, klystron switches, mouldable rigid explosives, ...) it's been nice knowing you guys.

2) Everybody gets nuclear hardware, with the idea that if you use it on someone else, everybody else will blast you right back into the Stone Age. Think of a load of MAFIA bosses in a room, each with a pistol loaded and ready to go. Each surviving by the goodwill of everyone else...

3) Hand over everything listed in #1 above to an extra-national force, answerable to no nation. Personnel serving time with this force are not allowed to even visit their own country until their term is over - consider them as a combination of "policeman of the world" and "hostage to the world". Any nation redeveloping technology for creating a nuclear payload gets blasted back into the Stone Age - immediately, without appeal.

I consider none of these solutions ideal. For the third, I don't think anyone can be trusted to head the "extra-national force" - and I damned sure don't want to hand it over to the current UN (or the UN at any previous time, either. Dag Hammarskjold was a socialist, and he wanted to create a worldwide socialist Utopia...) And, as long as we have power-hungry jackasses running things, there won't be an "ideal solution" to this problem. Does that mean we shouldn't try? I don't think so - but that means we should pay close attention to anyone who can say they've got an "easy solution" to the nuclear problem...

As long as there are going to be people in the room with large-calibre pistols, I'd like to make sure we're holding one ourselves. "If there's guns in the house, one better be yours."

I do not like nuclear weapons. I don't like war. Hell, I don't even like fighting anymore - although if I can't get out of one, I intend fully to finish it. As long as nukes are going to be around, we'd better hang on to a batch ourselves - until we can finally come up with something better...

[Blaine B.]

Ahmen to that! If only a leader would have the courage to say something like that publicly, not worried about who he'd offend as long as it was true and simply the right thing to say!!

[5-90]

Ahmen to that! If only a leader would have the courage to say something like that publicly, not worried about who he'd offend as long as it was true and simply the right thing to say!!

Two things wrong with that idea...

1) If I went into politics, I'd have to kick my own arse on a daily basis.

2) No-one would elect me anyhow - I'm too damned blunt. I use plain language, I don't dance around issues, and I do my level damndest to solve things. I don't want a second term - I want less problems when I go out than when I came in. Is that so hard to understand?

Besides, I'd probably end up being tried for assault a few dozen times after giving lobbyists the choice of "walk or bounce?" when I find them in my office. If they don't walk, they'll bounce at least twice on the way out instead. I could tell security to do the job for me, but it's not as satisfying as grabbing a double handful and throwing the silly bastage out meself.

It would take a few dozen before htey finally got the hint that I don't want to listen to them - and I'd better not catch them around my staff, either!

[Steve_Moore]

Screw 'em . :patriot:

[Ray H]

Yeah, Ive got a feeling no one is listening to the Japanese. I know Im not.

[WB9YZU]

It always amazes me how many people condemn the USA for dropping two A-bombs on Japan. Those imperialist thugs attack us first, drag us into a war we were not involved in, kill our young men so they can rule the world, and then they have the gull some 64 years later to tell us we need to disarm? Give me a break! If they had won the war (IE: we did not nuke them), do you really think they would have allowed us to continue on as a free democratic nation? No way, we would all be speaking Japanese, and worshipping there emperor. And its not like they left us much of a choice, we dropped one bomb, and still they would not surrender (too much pride), so then we drop another, and then they finally surrender, but even still their military leaders wanted to fight till the last man. Ya civilians died, too bad, very sad, but don't put that on the USA, it was Japan that thought it could rule the world. And now they want the USA and Russia to disarm? Why, so Iran, China, and North Korea can rule the world? I am sure glad I do not own any Japanese cars!

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20080809/wl_nm/japan_nagasaki_dc_1 (http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20080809/wl_nm/japan_nagasaki_dc_1)

Actually, Japan was not out to rule the world, that was Germany. Japan just wanted to rule Asia. By setting up an oil embargo to Japan to slow their aggression in China, we actually pulled the last straw out of the camels back. Pearl was an attempt to disable our Navy so that the oil embargo would be lifted, instead they got the war they declared. The Emperor didn't rule Japan, the Military did. The Emperor was and still is, a figure head position.

During WWII, it seems just about everyone was working on the Atom Bomb. In the lead was Germany and us, and we were determined that we would beat Germany to the punch, and we did. However, the bomb was not completed until after Germany surrendered. If Germany would have completed the bomb first, there is no doubt at all they would have used it on somebody, so it was never an option to develop this weapon and not at least take it for a spin to see what it could do.

With our losses running pretty high in the islands off Japan, and them not able to surrender due to their military code, we really had no choice but to do something pretty drastic. Even after the first bomb, some in the Military figured we didn't have the power to do that again. They were mistaken, and Japan surrendered.

Japan's industrial complex was revitalized by the US Military. We rebuilt the Japanese industrial complex into the power house it is today, not the Japanese. We also made sure that the Japanese society turned from conquest and war, to defense. To this day, Japan can only have as much military as it takes to defend itself until we get there.
However, the Japanese industrial machine we created, and still own parts of, has crippled our local automobile industry's.

Dropping a nuke on Japan in their eyes was a dirty thing to do. However, after Pearl, we had no aversion to playing dirty, only to killing so many non-combatants. The price Japan paid for their aggression was horrible, but has educated the world as to the result of nuclear warfare. Japanese society has made it a point, having been the only country actually bombed by a nuke, to make everyone aware of the horror of that reality, and many there have spearheaded world peace movements to make sure it doesn't happen again. Personally, I'd sleep safer at night knowing that every single warhead was destroyed, rather than this little game the US, Russia, and everyone else has been playing for decades.

The war with Japan was a nasty little affair, and was brought on by a lack of understanding on the part of the Japanese military leaders as to the affect the actions at Pearl would have on our national psyche. They were little Hitlers, only interested in their ages old conflict with China.

Germany however, was run by a total lunatic who was actually kicked out of the Military once, but who was able to persuade the population of Germany to once again, try and take over the world. It was Germany that was the real threat. Once Hitler was done with Europe, we would have been next. If we would have lost that war, you'd be sprecken ze deutsch.

On to your Japanese car remark. Automobile manufacture is world wide, and just about everybody owns somebody else. Just a look at what Ford owns gives you an idea how widespread this phenomenon is Many of the smaller Ford trucks are made by Mazda, Chevy's popular Geo series, now just branded Chevy, was all built in Japan (and now China). Japanese car manufactures, are building factories in the US, and providing jobs for US citizens.

[8Mud]

I wonder how I'd react if my children were born with birth defects and cancer was rampant.

[JNickel101]

I'd probably be pretty mad at my gov't for attacking Pearl Harbor. Idiots. That's how I'd feel.

[sjkimmel99]

Japan's message on the atomic bombings is something that was defined by Japanese leaders as early as late August / September 1945 (less than one month after the August 9th Nagasaki bombing.) The book "Marching Orders" by Bruce Lee analyzes the role radio intercepts/decrypts had in influencing American and British leaders during the war. Even after the Japanese surrender Americans continued to intercept, decrypt and analyze Japanese diplomatic messages. In those messages we find the beginings of the Japanese victimization story.
"Two weeks later, Foreign Minister Shigemitsu begins Tokyo's exploitation of the issue. The analysts note for General Marshall that ''the Japanese leaders intend to play up the atomic bombings not only to explain Japan's surrender [to an army that does not believe it was defeated in combat], but to offset publicity on Japan's treatment of Allied prisoners [of war] and internees [plus countless other atrocities].'' "

This is just a small part of the what the book is about. Lee had access to 14,000 pages of Magic diplomatic summaries and 1.5 million pages of U.S. Army records dealing with decrypted Japanese and German military and diplomatic traffic and maps that information to the political and military decisions made by out country during the war years.

If you like that sort of thing.

ISBN 0-517-57576-0
http://www.amazon.com/Marching-Orders-Untold-Story-World/dp/0306810360/ref=pd_bbs_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1218386355&sr=8-1
.

[Trail-Axe]

I wonder how I'd react if my children were born with birth defects and cancer was rampant.

Pacifism knows no peace but the peace brought on by those who defend it. How do you feel about the 40 million children that have been slaughtered through abortion so the lives of those who conceived them were not inconvenienced?
http://www.jesus-is-savior.com/Evils%20in%20America/Abortion%20is%20Murder/abortion_is_murder.htm (http://www.jesus-is-savior.com/Evils%20in%20America/Abortion%20is%20Murder/abortion_is_murder.htm)

[WB9YZU]

Don't even start with that crap.

[DrMoab]

Don't even start with that crap.
I don't think he can help it.

BRING BACK REP POINTS!!!!

This guy is why they were invented

[Trail-Axe]

Don't even start with that crap.

What crap would that be?

[Trail-Axe]

I don't think he can help it.

BRING BACK REP POINTS!!!!

This guy is why they were invented

What's a matter, no one to play with today, nothing intelligent to say, so thought you might Troll a little? lol

[WB9YZU]

What crap would that be?

8Mud just made a simple observation about nukes and birth defects, and you start the whole "Holier than thou" stuff.

Of course YOU don't think it's crap, but trust me on this one, it is.

Trust our beloved Trail-Axe to hit another social land mine. :kissyou:

No, I don't think he can help it :D

[Trail-Axe]

8Mud just made a simple observation about nukes and birth defects, and you start the whole "Holier than thou" stuff.

Of course YOU don't think it's crap, but trust me on this one, it is.

Trust our beloved Trail-Axe to hit another social land mine. :kissyou:

I often wounder why so many are so offended when their neat little lives are soiled by the truth. Millions of children murdered, and instead of being outraged at that fact, we attack those who do give a damn for reminding us it is still going on. I also find it amazing how many people love to say "Don't be holier then me," how dare you, why I'm not a bad person because............. And they lay down why they are so great, how good they are. But when did I ever say how great I was, or when did I ever say look up here and see how high and holy I am?

No, never said that, and I don't think or feel like that. If anything, I look up to many of you. I do how ever say things that I hope will provoke thought. I guess its the standard America cop out any time someone reminds us we have some serious problems that need attending to, to say to the one that mentions it, don't be holier then me, stay down here in the mud with me, "because when you make mention of those things that I know deep down to be true, you make me feel uncomfortable for doing and saying nothing about it myself."

[8Mud]

I tend to use the mirror test on any and many controversial subjects, it helps me to keep perspective, avoid self righteous or holier than tho positions and blatant hypocrisy.
Simple question, you drop a 500 pound bomb, it's likely, unless you drop it on your own troops, you are committing genocide.
Sometimes right or wrong and labels just aren't relevant anymore.
Wiki
"Genocide is the deliberate and systematic destruction, in whole or in part, of an ethnic, racial, religious, or national group."
I guess it's only genocide, when someone else is doing it.

[WB9YZU]

So... Trail-Axe

You are our social and religious conscience? :scared:

Well, you certainly have a long row to hoe. :worship:

You have dragged your own thread OT and into a social and religious minefield. I told you that it's crap, and seeing that you respect a number of us, I would have thought you would have listened to that advice. I must not be one of the respected few :(

In order to support your statements, you have to generate a set of Givens.
Givens are statements that we agree are true in order to continue a logical conversation.

The first given is that "live" begins at conception. That is to say when the sperm hit the egg, and a division happens. I'll give you that.

The second one is more difficult, when is the soul conceived? Is it when the 1st division occurred, or is is when the live form becomes self aware. No consensus on that one, eh?

How about what constitutes murder? The law has one definition, the church another, and none of them apply to animals. Why not animals? Do they not have a soul, and are not self aware, or is this just a Man thing?
Is murder the destruction of a "potential" person, or a whole, out of the birth canal "person"? Again, no consensus.

So, you see, no logical discussion can accrue as too many "Givens" are ambiguous. So now it is an emotional discussion, which by the very definitions of emotion and discussion, is impossible to have.

See why it's crap now?

[DrMoab]

I often wounder why so many are so offended when their neat little lives are soiled by the truth. Millions of children murdered, and instead of being outraged at that fact, we attack those who do give a damn for reminding us it is still going on. I also find it amazing how many people love to say "Don't be holier then me," how dare you, why I'm not a bad person because............. And they lay down why they are so great, how good they are. But when did I ever say how great I was, or when did I ever say look up here and see how high and holy I am?

I actually agree with you about abortion. I just think you are stupid to bring it up here.

[PuddinHead]

I am sure glad I do not own any Japanese cars!

I don't own any Japanese cars....but if anyone's giving one away.....:wave:

[red91]

So... Trail-Axe

You are our social and religious conscience? :scared:

Well, you certainly have a long row to hoe. :worship:

You have dragged your own thread OT and into a social and religious minefield. I told you that it's crap, and seeing that you respect a number of us, I would have thought you would have listened to that advice. I must not be one of the respected few :(

In order to support your statements, you have to generate a set of Givens.
Givens are statements that we agree are true in order to continue a logical conversation.

The first given is that "live" begins at conception. That is to say when the sperm hit the egg, and a division happens. I'll give you that.

The second one is more difficult, when is the soul conceived? Is it when the 1st division occurred, or is is when the live form becomes self aware. No consensus on that one, eh?

How about what constitutes murder? The law has one definition, the church another, and none of them apply to animals. Why not animals? Do they not have a soul, and are not self aware, or is this just a Man thing?
Is murder the destruction of a "potential" person, or a whole, out of the birth canal "person"? Again, no consensus.

So, you see, no logical discussion can accrue as too many "Givens" are ambiguous. So now it is an emotional discussion, which by the very definitions of emotion and discussion, is impossible to have.

See why it's crap now?


Thanks...like I don't have enough to think about already.

Pondering the problematic issues of social injustice on Naxja is like going to the proctologist. I mean, sure you could but, why the HELL would you want to?


Anyway there are much bigger problems....CHEF is dead. :jester:

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080810/ap_on_re_us/obit_isaac_hayes

[WB9YZU]

Well, I guess that's my point actually. Why start something that can only lead to more missery.

My thread on Chef has been active for like an hour, and like no responses, like, yah know. http://www.naxja.org/forum/showthread.php?t=963431

[Trail-Axe]

The soul is conceived at conception. I will spare you the Biblical support for this, but anyone that does desire to know can PM me and I will provide it. If becoming self aware is a requirement for the the conception of the soul, then one born mentally incapacitated must not have a soul by this reasoning. Murder is well defined, both Biblical, and in our society. Killing the unborn child is considered murder in many states, and I am not talking about abortion. We have laws on the books that if you so injure a woman so as to cause her unborn child to die, you will be charged with murder.

As far as being your social and religious conscience, I don't think I ever made that claim. I do however stimulate social and religious thought, and think discussing it in an open forum is not only healthy, but one of the freedoms this country allows. I read the Bible, and I make what I read known as I see fit. Just like many of you often let me know just how you feel as you see fit. The problem is, the Bible. Not me. From time to time I quote what God has spoken, and because of that message i get the flame on.

I especially find it interesting that some of you agree with some of the opinions I hold, but yet your fear of being treated as i have been prevents you from speaking the truth. Why? This is an open forum, there are no specific rules to holding one opinion or another. Are you really that afraid of the comments of some kid you have never met, or a comment from some guy you really could care less about, as if his verbal assault against you actually defined you?

If you can not stand up for what you believe to be true, and those who suffer from moral and religious ignorance are allowed to control what is discussed, then you really have no right to gripe when the evening news you watch panders to the liberal left and our morally bankrupt society. Stupidity is not so much revealed in speaking out in defence of ones moral convictions, but in remaining silent because one is more afraid of public opinion then the God whom he loves.
:us:

[wolfpackjeeper]

When I learned what the Japanese did in china, see the Rape of Nanking, as well as the wholesale slaughter, rape, murder, and theft they committed, I really stopped caring about what they whine about.

They corrupted bushido in order to convince their population that the highest goal they could obtain was to die with their emperors Name on their lips, they abandoned entire divisions when the outlook turned hopeless and gave them orders that they were to kill x number of attackers before they could give up, gave no quarter to surrendering troops, ignored any sense of honorable behavior. Yea, I could care less. 250,000 is a better trade off than 1.5million +.

I have never liked Japanese culture, from Manga, to the way they treat women, to the superiority complex they have as a group. I took a college course on ww2 History, and became interested in the pacific war. It continues to amaze me that the Japanese killed more people, and committed worse war crimes, yet escaped with little to no punishment, and most people have never heard about it.

[Boatwrench]

Dropping the atom bomb on Japan did three things.

1. Showed Russia we had it.
2. Put the US in the category of the nations who use a weapon of mass destruction.
3. Ended a war that the US populace had grown weary of.

[Mudderoy]

Never start a fight unless you are willing to get hurt. Japanese leaders made a bad decision. They could not tell what the future held, but they put their nation and people at risk the moment they went to war.

We did not develop a nuclear weapon and then "try it out" on some random nation. I suspect nuclear weapons may have been another 10 to 15 years later if it wasn't for the threat of the evil axis, Germany, Italy, and Japan.

Remember too that when we first started testing the atom bomb, we had people well with in the dangerous area of radiation. We simply didn't understand what we were dealing with at that time, not fully, so birth defects and high instances of cancer were not fully understood.

Looking back you may see where you went wrong on your path, but had you changed your direction then would you be in a better place now?

[WB9YZU]

The soul is conceived at conception. I will spare you the Biblical support for this, but anyone that does desire to know can PM me and I will provide it. If becoming self aware is a requirement for the the conception of the soul, then one born mentally incapacitated must not have a soul by this reasoning. Murder is well defined, both Biblical, and in our society. Killing the unborn child is considered murder in many states, and I am not talking about abortion. We have laws on the books that if you so injure a woman so as to cause her unborn child to die, you will be charged with murder.

As far as being your social and religious conscience, I don't think I ever made that claim. I do however stimulate social and religious thought, and think discussing it in an open forum is not only healthy, but one of the freedoms this country allows. I read the Bible, and I make what I read known as I see fit. Just like many of you often let me know just how you feel as you see fit. The problem is, the Bible. Not me. From time to time I quote what God has spoken, and because of that message i get the flame on.

I especially find it interesting that some of you agree with some of the opinions I hold, but yet your fear of being treated as i have been prevents you from speaking the truth. Why? This is an open forum, there are no specific rules to holding one opinion or another. Are you really that afraid of the comments of some kid you have never met, or a comment from some guy you really could care less about, as if his verbal assault against you actually defined you?

If you can not stand up for what you believe to be true, and those who suffer from moral and religious ignorance are allowed to control what is discussed, then you really have no right to gripe when the evening news you watch panders to the liberal left and our morally bankrupt society. Stupidity is not so much revealed in speaking out in defence of ones moral convictions, but in remaining silent because one is more afraid of public opinion then the God whom he loves.
:us:

If I may, no one likes getting preached to, let alone a group of people who by their very nature are independent thinkers. It is a poor craftsman who blames his tools. The problem is not the Bible, but how you implement it's use. If you stop preaching and start listening, you may learn something. If you stop preaching and start quietly nudging, you may see movement in your direction...or not, as the case may be. There is an old saying, "You catch more flies with honey than you do with vinegar". That goes for people also.

As far as proof goes, I do not accept the Bible as an acceptable source of proof. It has been used as a working document too long to be reliable. The accounts inside are hearsay at best. God did not write the Bible, he did not write the Koran, and he didn't write the Mormon Bible, people did, and long after the events actually happened. There is a lot of common sense in those books, but unless you are carrying on a theological debate, which I wasn't, your source is invalid.

There is no scientific evidence of the existence of a soul, or if there is one, when it is imparted on a being.

The definition of murder what includes the unborn fetus with the Murder of the Mother is not universal, even within the borders of the US, and is something that Pro-Life activists had written in. Those laws usually only apply when the Fetus is developed enough for movement (quick) and again, only if the act is premeditated. So you see, abortion by definition of the law is not murder.

To tie this all in with your comment to 8MUD. You were off base comparing abortion to the suffering of the Japanese children because of birth defects and mutation. The two are not the same, and if you can't see that, I can't make it any clearer.

For the sake of this discussion, it is not relevant what the Japanese did in China.
At this juncture, it is not even relevant what they did to us.
Yes, what that generation did was terrible and in many cased inhumane. However, you can not blame the present generation of any nation or culture for the faults of their fathers.

[Trail-Axe]

If I may, no one likes getting preached to, let alone a group of people who by their very nature are independent thinkers. It is a poor craftsman who blames his tools. The problem is not the Bible, but how you implement it's use. If you stop preaching and start listening, you may learn something.

Does your hypocrisy have no limits? Is not your advise to me on how I am to speak not preaching in its highest regard? Did you ever ponder the possibility that maybe it is you that might need to listen and learn? Amazing. A poor craftsman may indeed blame his tools, but I am not the craftsman. I am the tool (did he just call himself a tool?) :) The problem is not that I stoke the cat in the wrong direction, for it is the cat needs to turn around.

You made first mention of a soul, I just went from there. The simple fact that you do not regard the bible as the inspired word of God says all I need to know about you. You, by your ignorance, have placed yourself above the authority of God. You love and seek the praise of men, so as to puff your self up with their praise. You write what you think others will hear, and have no real opinion save what is popular at the time. If you can not see that abortion is murder, then you are a blind man, and speaking to you would be foolish indeed. Good day.

[red91]

DON'T BE HATIN ' !!




http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v244/red91inWA/malibu-s-most-wanted-6.jpg








http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v244/red91inWA/cookiemonster.jpg

[tupton]

Trail-Axe, the religious forum is down the street. No one else wants to hear it.

[goodburbon]

Both of you make valid points.

1. The bible is not a valid tool to use as a reference to use in an arguement with non-christians.
2. Abortion is the termination of a human life, and as such should be considered "killing" or in many circumstances "murder for convienience"


Japanese had to be shocked into surrender in a culture that did not allow surrender, we had no choice, they gave us none.

[JNickel101]

Japanese had to be shocked into surrender in a culture that did not allow surrender, we had no choice, they gave us none.

Sounds a lot like the "culture" we're fighting today....

[goodburbon]

infidel...

[4x4fever]

I totaly agree with the fact that japan would have fought to the last man
if not for the 2 bombs but i'm not sure that w w 2 is over yet . I think it has
changed into an economic war and we aint doing to good on that front
them little a-- holes are still coming at us and not a lot of people in this country
realize it. keep your powder dry, your hubs locked in an your beer cold

[JNickel101]

infidel...

:jester:

[Ray H]

Abortion, ohhh noo.
Ok here it goes.
Seeing as I dont think we have souls the abortion issue is pretty easy and straight forward for me. Sorry for the rest of you who have issues in that department.
An abortion should be illegal at exactly the point that a fetus shows signs that it "wants to live".
Any reaction to pain or discomfort is a survival reflex. If someone sticks you with a pin, you flinch, if you touch something hot, you pull away. your BP goes up, heart rate increases, ect. A number of things automatically happen to you when you are subjected to pain or discomfort. These are attempts at self preservation (ie: you want to live). At some point in a fetuses development that automatic response for self preservation kicks in. Right then should be the cutoff for abortion.
Do I know when that point is? NO I dont. Maybe someone here does. It doesnt matter to me when it is, it could happen at conception, it could hapeen seconds before the baby pops out, I dont know. Anyone??

[fscrig75]

ISimple question, you drop a 500 pound bomb, it's likely, unless you drop it on your own troops, you are committing genocide.
Sometimes right or wrong and labels just aren't relevant anymore.
Wiki
"Genocide is the deliberate and systematic destruction, in whole or in part, of an ethnic, racial, religious, or national group."
I guess it's only genocide, when someone else is doing it.

Maybe you should read a bit more in that post from WIKI;
Generally speaking, genocide does not necessarily mean the immediate destruction of a nation, except when accomplished by mass killings of all members of a nation. It is intended rather to signify a coordinated plan of different actions aiming at the destruction of essential foundations of the life of national groups, with the aim of annihilating the groups themselves. The objectives of such a plan would be the disintegration of the political and social institutions, of culture, language, national feelings, religion, and the economic existence of national groups, and the destruction of the personal security, liberty, health, dignity, and even the lives of the individuals belonging to such groups.[5] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genocide#cite_note-4)

I may be wrong but war between Armies is not considered genocide.

Oh course I may have just misunderstood what you were saying.

[8Mud]

Maybe you should read a bit more in that post from WIKI;
Generally speaking, genocide does not necessarily mean the immediate destruction of a nation, except when accomplished by mass killings of all members of a nation. It is intended rather to signify a coordinated plan of different actions aiming at the destruction of essential foundations of the life of national groups, with the aim of annihilating the groups themselves. The objectives of such a plan would be the disintegration of the political and social institutions, of culture, language, national feelings, religion, and the economic existence of national groups, and the destruction of the personal security, liberty, health, dignity, and even the lives of the individuals belonging to such groups.[5] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genocide#cite_note-4)

I may be wrong but war between Armies is not considered genocide.

Oh course I may have just misunderstood what you were saying.

My main point was to try and look at most situations/conflicts through the eyes of both parties. Spend a few minutes trying to see things from the other guys point of view. Something that often gets easier to do after the wisdom teeth come in and often becomes harder to live with at the same time.
I'm from the old school, Firepower, shock affect and mobility wins battles.
Many of the wars fought are genocide, until you start in with the rationalizations, bring in the lawyers and argue the fine points and/or declare yourself the righteous one, after you have won.
I'm not condemning the use of overwhelming firepower by any means. I'm just advocating having a conscience and some empathy.

[fscrig75]

War is good for no one. I think everyone will pretty much agree with that. The people that push war are the ones usually that have never been on the working end of a weapon system.
But it is a necessary evil. We can't change the nature of man and his/her desire for wealth and power.
Yes you are correct typically the winner is determined to be the righteous one. Which is usually us and our allies.
I just can't call the AF dropping a 500lb bomb on an insurgent enclave killing 20 or so, the same word that describes what the Nazis, Serbs and the Dafur governments did to people living in thier countries.
Genocide is against a people, regardless of their government. War is against a government, regardless of their people. Very similar in actions, but drastically different in ideology.

[WB9YZU]

The simple fact that you do not regard the bible as the inspired word of God says all I need to know about you. You, by your ignorance, have placed yourself above the authority of God. You love and seek the praise of men, so as to puff your self up with their praise. You write what you think others will hear, and have no real opinion save what is popular at the time. If you can not see that abortion is murder, then you are a blind man, and speaking to you would be foolish indeed. Good day.

I see, so because I believe that God did not write the Bible ( and infact there is only one indication in the Bible that he ever wrote anything except the 10 commandments) and that I consider it an unreliable source because it was hand copied and modified for centuries to suit the needs of the readers, I am now ignorant and not worthy to speak to?

Nice one.

As far as the rest of that tie raid, you couldn't be more wrong.

I did not preach to you, I made a suggestion, and one that will serve you well though life if you follow it. I admire your integrity, but you may be doing yourself a disservice by ignoring all arguments that don't fit inside that box you've built out of belief. There is more to the world than what is written in the Bible, and not all of the teachings there apply directly to the world as it is.
People have been arguing over the exact meaning of the contents of that Book since it was written, and more wars have been fought over religion than any other reason. Give it a rest for a while and play with your pussy....cat. :D

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>><<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<

There is an argument going on about Genocide. The word is over used, just like racism is. If the people you are fighting in a war are not of your "race", that's too bad.
Genocide is the practice of eliminating a particular race from an area because of racial hate. Ruanda was Genocide. What the Nazis did was Genocide. What we did in Japan was an act of war. We did not bomb those places because we wanted to eradicate the Japanese, we did it to stop a war.

[Trail-Axe]

A) I am now ignorant and not worthy to speak to.

B) As far as the rest of that tie raid, you couldn't be more wrong.

C) I did not preach to you, I made a suggestion.

A) If you say say so.
B) This sure sounds like preaching to me.
C) Are you suggesting I'm wrong, or is it your opinion your preaching?

[Bent]

Genocide is against a people, regardless of their government.
Genocide ONLY happened to the Jews, just ask them.

[red91]

Genocide ONLY happened to the Jews, just ask them.


Negative. Rwanda, and Bosnia are good examples.

But no one exploited them for manual labor until they got shot in the back of the head, took a poison gas shower, or baked at 850* until done.


:cool:

[PuddinHead]

Trail Axe
Just curious about the quotation from Homer at the bottom of each of your posts. The quote seems 'militaristic' to me, a kind of fight and die bravely kind of quote. I think the words of Christ a far far better quote. He was very brave, didn't pick a fight with anyone and helped anyone who asked--until a bunch of political hacks had him nailed to a tree.
Peace:cheers:

[Stroketech]

You know what I say, Shut up or you'll get it again!

[cracker]

Pacifism knows no peace but the peace brought on by those who defend it. How do you feel about the 40 million children that have been slaughtered through abortion so the lives of those who conceived them were not inconvenienced?
http://www.jesus-is-savior.com/Evils%20in%20America/Abortion%20is%20Murder/abortion_is_murder.htm (http://www.jesus-is-savior.com/Evils%20in%20America/Abortion%20is%20Murder/abortion_is_murder.htm)

Wow. What a douche tard. This is not the place to preach. :conceited
I vote to ban him.

[Trail-Axe]

Trail Axe
Just curious about the quotation from Homer at the bottom of each of your posts. The quote seems 'militaristic' to me, a kind of fight and die bravely kind of quote. I think the words of Christ a far far better quote. He was very brave, didn't pick a fight with anyone and helped anyone who asked--until a bunch of political hacks had him nailed to a tree.
Peace:cheers:


I agree, the very least that Christ spoke trumps the greatest speech of any man. You are right, Christ came the first time to live a life that revealed to all of mankind what His Father was like. He did not pick a fight, but He did get very angry at the money changers, and turned over their tables, and drove out their animals. He was angry with them because they had turned a house of worship into a den of thieves.

When He returns in His glory, it will be to judge the sons of men. He will reign and rule on the earth for 1000 years, and He will rule with a rod of iron. No nation on earth will be able to resist His will be done on the face of the whole earth. He will judge the cowards, the liars, unbelievers, sexually immoral people, murderers, and the false prophet, and cast them into the lake of fire.

The quote from Homer speaks of honor, be it in battle, marriage, business, or everyday life. So why do you not have a sig that quotes the words of Jesus?

Shalom,
:patriot:

Rev 19:11-16:
Now I saw heaven opened, and behold, a white horse. And He who sat on him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness He judges and makes war.
His eyes were like a flame of fire, and on His head were many crowns. He had a name written that no one knew except Himself. He was clothed with a robe dipped in blood, and His name is called The Word of God. And the armies in heaven, clothed in fine linen, white and clean, followed Him on white horses. Now out of His mouth goes a sharp sword, that with it He should strike the nations. And He Himself will rule them with a rod of iron. He Himself treads the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God. And He has on His robe and on His thigh a name written:
KING OF KINGS AND LORD OF LORDS.

Rev 21:6-8
And He said to me,"It is done! I am the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End. I will give of the fountain of the water of life freely to him who thirsts. He who overcomes shall inherit all things, and I will be his God and he shall be My son. But the cowardly, unbelieving, abominable, murderers, sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars shall have their part in the lake which burns with fire and brimstone, which is the second death."

[Trail-Axe]

Wow. I am a douche tard. This is the place to preach. :conceited
I vote to ban him.

I vote to ban you, so there! :roflmao:

[cracker]

I vote to ban you, so there! :roflmao:

Are you a Mormon doing his 2 year mission online?

If you couldn't afford the bicycle I probably could help you out a little......

[DrMoab]

Are you a Mormon doing his 2 year mission online?

If you couldn't afford the bicycle I probably could help you out a little......
He isn't Mormon. They don't spew that much about religion. Trust me I know.

[Trail-Axe]

I'm a Mormon are you?

If you cant afford a bicycle, you can borrow mine......

Whatsamatter cracker jack, your dog tired of playing with you, mommy and daddy away on a trip, no girl to be with tonight? I am not a Mormon, JW, or any such thing. So what's your story tonight, nothing better to do besides Troll around at the NAXJA. :D

[GrimmJeeper]

cracker isnt the only one tired of your bible thumping around here buddy. dont you have a clinic to protest outside of somewhere?


:cheers:

[cracker]

Whatsamatter cracker jack, your dog tired of playing with you, mommy and daddy away on a trip, no girl to be with tonight? I am not a Mormon, JW, or any such thing. So what's your story tonight, nothing better to do besides Troll around at the NAXJA. :D

Actually, Mom is getting hammered in the arse by some dude she picked up at the truck stop while Dad videotapes. As far as the girl goes, I need to send her back to the Realdoll factory for warranty consideration. I have a "love ewe" filled with warm water for the moment; its a rental.

You're an idiot.

[cal]

Whatsamatter cracker jack, your dog tired of playing with you, mommy and daddy away on a trip, no girl to be with tonight? I am not a Mormon, JW, or any such thing. So what's your story tonight, nothing better to do besides Troll around at the NAXJA. :D

Jesus man, then what is your excuse?

[GSequoia]

Wow. I am a douche tard. This is the place to preach. :conceited
I vote to ban him.

I vote to ban you, so there! :roflmao:


Wow, how clever. :rolleyes:



BTW: This isn't the place to preach.

[goodburbon]

He will judge the cowards, the liars, unbelievers, sexually immoral people, murderers, and the false prophet, and cast them into the lake of fire.




OK now you're aggrivating me. There is no hell, religion is a farce and you are a sheep, go bleat somewhere else.

[red91]

Are you a Mormon doing his 2 year mission online?



Cant be...he's not quoting the book of "Mormon".

His use of Hebrew is offensive to me since he's NOT a jew.

I vote to ban him....

[PuddinHead]

So why do you not have a sig that quotes the words of Jesus?

Really though, being helpfull on a day to day basis to other NAXJA users is the most useful sig, much better than pushing people away despite any good intentions. I was thinking about this one:"God put obvious limitations on our intelligence, but none whatsoever on our stupidity." --Father John Corapi

That quote covers a lot of human activity and is absolutely true! :D

[Darky]

"God put obvious limitations on our intelligence, but none whatsoever on our stupidity." --Father John Corapi
STOLEN!!

[PuddinHead]

STOLEN!!

:eek: