PDA

View Full Version : Obamas lies to get to where he is


jdurbach
July 30th, 2008, 19:51
Sure no politician is perfect but I can't believe anyone would support this guy
no substance and all lies:

Obama's "Not Exactly's": This person is more dangerous than any candidate in recent years....

1.) Selma Got Me Born - NOT EXACTLY, your parents felt safe
enough to have you in 1961 - Selma had no effect on your birth, as
Selma was in 1965. (Google'Obama Selma' for his full March 4,
2007 speech and articles about its various untruths.)

2.) Father Was A Goat Herder - NOT EXACTLY, he was a
privileged, well educated youth, who went on to work with the Kenyan
Government.

3.) Father Was A Proud Freedom Fighter - NOT EXACTLY, he
was part of one of the most corrupt and violent governments Kenya has
ever had.

4.) My Family Has Strong Ties To African Freedom - NOT
EXACTLY, your cousin Raila Odinga has created mass violence in attempting
to overturn a legitimate election in 2007, in Kenya. It is the first
widespread violence in decades. The current government is pro-American
but Odinga wants to overthrow it and establish Muslim Sharia law. Your
half-brother, Abongo Obama, is Odinga's follower. You interrupted your
New Hampshire campaigning to speak to Odinga on the phone. Check out
the following link for verification of that....and for more.

Obama's cousin Odinga in Kenya ran for president and
tried to get Sharia muslim law in place there. When Odinga lost the
elections, his followers have burned Christians' homes and then burned
men, women and children alive in a Christian church where they took
shelter.. Obama SUPPORTED his cousin before the election process here
started. Google Obama and Odinga and see what you get. No one wants to
know
the truth.

5.) My Grandmother Has Always Been A Christian - NOT
EXACTLY, she does her daily Salat prayers at 5am according to her own
interviews. Not to mention, Christianity wouldn't allow her to have been
one of 14 wives to 1 man.

6.) My Name is African Swahili - NOT EXACTLY, your name is
Arabic and 'Baraka' (from which Barack came) means
'blessed' in that language. Hussein is also Arabic and so is Obama.
Barack Hussein Obama is not half black. If elected, he
would be the first Arab-American President, not the first black
President. Barack Hussein Obama is 50% Caucasian from his mother's side
and 43.75% Arabic and 6.25% African Negro from his father's side. While
Barack Hussein Obama's father was from Kenya, his father's family
was mainly Arabs.. Barack Hussein Obama's father was only 12.5% African
Negro and 87.5% Arab (his father's birth certificate even states
he's Arab, not African Negro). From....and for more....go to.....
http://www.arcadeathome.com/newsboy.phtml?Barack_
Hussein_Obama_-_Arab-American,_only_6.25%25_African

7.) I Never Practiced Islam - NOT EXACTLY, you practiced it
daily at school, where you were registered as a Muslim and kept that
faith for 31 years, until your wife made you change, so you could run
for office. 4-3-08 Article "Obama was 'quite religious in
islam'"
http://www.wnd.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=60559

8.) My School In Indonesia Was Christian - NOT EXACTLY, you
were registered as Muslim there and got in trouble in Koranic
Studies for making faces (check your own book).
February 28, 2008. Kristoff from the New York Times a
year ago: Mr. Obama recalled the opening lines of the Arabic call to
prayer, reciting them with a first-rate accent. In a remark that seemed
delightfully uncalculated (it'll give Alabama voters heart attacks),
Mr. Obama described the call to prayer as "one of the prettiest
sounds on Earth at sunset." This is just one example of what Pamela
is talking about when she says "Obama's narrative is being altered,
enhanced and manipulated to whitewash troubling facts."

9.) I Was Fluent In Indonesian - NOT EXACTLY, not one
teacher says you could speak the language.

10.) Because I Lived In Indonesia, I Have More Foreign
Experience - NOT EXACTLY, you were there from the ages of 6 to 10, and
couldn't even speak the language. What did you learn, how to study the
Koran and watch cartoons.

11.) I Am Stronger On Foreign Affairs - NOT EXACTLY, except
for Africa (surprise) and the Middle East (bigger surprise), you have
never been anywhere else on the planet and thus have NO experience
with our closest allies.

12.) I Blame My Early Drug Use On Ethnic Confusion - NOT
EXACTLY, you were quite content in high school to be Barry Obama, no
mention of Kenya and no mention of struggle to identify - your
classmates said you were just fine.

13.)An Ebony Article Moved Me To Run For Office - NOT
EXACTLY, Ebony has yet to find the article you mention in your book. It
doesn't, and never did, exist.

14.) A Life Magazine Article Changed My Outlook On Life -
NOT EXACTLY, Life has yet to find the article you mention in your
book. It doesn't, and never did, exist.

15.) I Won't Run On A National Ticket In '08 - NOT
EXACTLY, here you are, despite saying, live on TV, that you would not
have enough experience by then, and you are all about having experience first.

16.) Voting "Present" is Common In Illinois
Senate - NOT EXACTLY, they are common for YOU, but not many others have
130 NO VOTES.

17.) Oops, I Misvoted - NOT EXACTLY, only when caught by
church groups and Democrats, did you beg to change your misvote.

18.) I Was A Professor Of Law - NOT EXACTLY, you were a
senior lecturer ON LEAVE.

19.) I Was A Constitutional Lawyer - NOT EXACTLY, you were
a senior lecturer ON LEAVE.

20.) Without Me, There Would Be No Ethics Bill - NOT
EXACTLY, you didn't write it, introduce it, change it, or create it.

21.) The Ethics Bill Was Hard To Pass - NOT EXACTLY, it
took just 14 days from start to finish.

22.) I Wrote A Tough Nuclear Bill - NOT EXACTLY, your bill
was rejected by your own party for its pandering and lack of all
regulation - mainly because of your Nuclear donor, Exelon, from which
David Axelrod came.

23.) I Have Released My State Records - NOT EXACTLY, as of
March, 2008, state bills you sponsored or voted for have yet to be
released, exposing all the special interests pork hidden within.

24.) I Took On The Asbestos Altgeld Gardens Mess - NOT
EXACTLY, you were part of a large group of people who remedied Altgeld
Gardens. You failed to mention anyone else but yourself, in your books.

25.) My Economics Bill Will Help America - NOT EXACTLY,
your 111 economic policies were just combined into a proposal which
lost 99-0, and even YOU voted against your own bill.

26.) I Have Been A Bold Leader In Illinois - NOT EXACTLY,
even your own supporters claim to have not seen BOLD action on your part.

27.) I Passed 26 Of My Own Bills In One Year - NOT EXACTLY,
they were not YOUR bills, but rather handed to you, after their
creation by a fellow Senator, to assist you in a future bid for higher
office.

28.) No One on my campaign contacted Canada about NAFTA -
NOT EXACTLY, the Canadian Government issued the names and a memo of the
conversation your campaign had with them.

29.) I Am Tough On Terrorism - NOT EXACTLY, you missed the
Iran Resolution vote on terrorism and your good friend Ali
Abunimah supports the destruction of Israel.

30.) I Want All Votes To Count - NOT EXACTLY, you said let
the delegates decide.

31.) I Want Americans To Decide - NOT EXACTLY, you prefer
caucuses that limit the vote, confuse the voters, force a public vote,
and only operate during small windows of time.

32.) I passed 900 Bills in the State Senate - NOT EXACTLY,
you passed 26, most of which you didn't write yourself.

33.) I Believe In Fairness, Not Tactics - NOT EXACTLY, you
used tactics to eliminate Alice Palmer from running against you.

34.) I Don't Take PAC Money - NOT EXACTLY, you take
loads of it.

35.) I don't Have Lobbyists - NOT EXACTLY, you have
over 47 lobbyists, and counting.

36.) My Campaign Had Nothing To Do With The 1984 Ad - NOT
EXACTLY, your own campaign worker made the ad on his Apple in one
afternoon.

37.) I Have Always Been Against Iraq - NOT EXACTLY, you
weren't in office to vote against it AND you have voted to fund it
every single time.

38.) I Have Always Supported Universal Health Care - NOT
EXACTLY, your plan leaves us all to pay for the 15,000,000 who don't
have to buy it

"Qui non intelligit aut discat aut taceat"
Who does not understand should either learn, or be silent.





(comment is too long by 1 characters)

Otter
July 30th, 2008, 20:28
good post. we are in deep caca if this goof wins the election. it'l be like another Jimmy Carter...picture America with it's pants down around it's ankles again...makes me sick. i'm hoping the swing voters protect us from this mess.

TRNDRVR
July 30th, 2008, 20:30
He's a damn sight better than McBush!!!

Page one. http://www.clipartof.com/images/emoticons/xsmall2/1974_eating_popcorn.gif

SBrad001
July 30th, 2008, 20:43
(comment is too long by 1 characters)

Seriously, you couldn't have researched and written all that yourself. And god knows it's riddle with half truths and inaccuracies. Really, it just makes you sound just as silly as I do when I'm on an anti-Bush tirade.

So I'll say it again. Who cares if Obama will screw us, it can't be any worse than the ass raping that the republicans have given us over the course of the last few years.

:D

scottmcneal
July 30th, 2008, 20:57
Dude :twak: Come on brad, pull your head out.............:laugh3:

SBrad001
July 30th, 2008, 21:08
Dude :twak: Come on brad, pull your head out.............:laugh3:


Really now? A war that has cost thousands of lives and trillions of dollars that was merely an ego stroke, the horrible response to Katrina, the current economic crisis, the historic federal deficit. . . .

And you want to tell me to pull me head out of my ass? Are you sure? Maybe if Bush the Slow of Mind didn't have his head up his ass I wouldn't be this irritated with the republican party. And don't give me any crap aabout how the democrats have stopped Bush the Retarded from affecting real change. The republicans were in power in the House, Senate, and Presidency, they were in complete control, they were at the helm when the ship ran aground.

scottmcneal
July 30th, 2008, 21:14
LOL, yep...Katrina, thats the dikes we blew up right? Thousands of lives , Oh the trade center... Isn't the war for the oil? Sorry, just want to pull your leg.. Then beat you with it.....LOL J/K I hope you have a great week..

IntrepidXJ
July 30th, 2008, 21:14
So I'll say it again. Who cares if Obama will screw us, it can't be any worse than the ass raping that the republicans have given us over the course of the last few years.

more wilderness, less trails open, new gun laws......

that's worse in my opinion....and affects me directly

SBrad001
July 30th, 2008, 21:17
more wilderness, less trails open, new gun laws......

that's worse in my opinion....and affects me directly

Now that I can relate to.

lrainman
July 30th, 2008, 21:19
Really now? A war that has cost thousands of lives and trillions of dollars that was merely an ego stroke, the horrible response to Katrina, the current economic crisis, the historic federal deficit. . . .

And you want to tell me to pull me head out of my ass? Are you sure? Maybe if Bush the Slow of Mind didn't have his head up his ass I wouldn't be this irritated with the republican party. And don't give me any crap aabout how the democrats have stopped Bush the Retarded from affecting real change. The republicans were in power in the House, Senate, and Presidency, they were in complete control, they were at the helm when the ship ran aground.

Yes, things have only really taken a turn for the worse since the DEM's have taken control of the house and senate! Anyone that would vote for OBAMA should pull there head out of the sand and think about the problems he would create.

scottmcneal
July 30th, 2008, 21:21
I'll need some POP-CORN for this, so hold on a min...

Ben H
July 30th, 2008, 21:31
Socialism is near. It makes my guts wrench. Empathy for Democrats ends when they put delta smelt, tiger salamanders, arroyo toads, red legged frogs, mountain lions, condors, and other rodents above the needs of people. I'd give my left nut to get Hillary back in Obama's place; at least then we'd know what we were getting. I wish that I knew who Barrack is, but from what I see, a vote for Barrack is pretty good leap of faith and a step away from democracy. Hell for all I know, Obama's a sleeper for some super duper hybrid social-communist-panther party. He is after all, the one and only "Forrest Gump Canidate", you never know what you're gonna get. I can't wait for my new taxes to start. I don't really deserve all that money that I work my ass off for anyways; just give it away. I do know one salient fact on that list above, the dude didn't do much as a Senator and I don't really trust freeloaders. Well maybe if he wins we can put racism behind us, and I can finally have the freedom to speak what is on my mind, without repercussions. My wife, sisters, mother, grandma and the secretary at work are all voting for Obama, but they don't know why? I guess I just dont understand how people can elect a president, they know nothing about. And then say they did it because they didn't like the guy who had the job before him. Its like saying "I'm not going wheeling, because I have have to wash my hair"; it makes no sense to me. I do like the fact that he is "for change". Or is that just a slogan?

Anyways, I'm just dumbfounded, confused and surrounded by liberals in Central California.

T. Boone Pickens for President in 2012

Bent
July 30th, 2008, 22:05
And god knows it's riddle with half truths and inaccuracies.

:lecture:
School us, please.

TRNDRVR
July 30th, 2008, 22:22
I can't wait for my new taxes to start. I don't really deserve all that money that I work my ass off for anyways; just give it away.Tax and spend, or borrow and spend? :huh:

I'll take my answer off the air.

:patriot:

Ben H
July 30th, 2008, 22:29
Hey, at least if the government borrows itself into oblivion, they can manipulate the value of the dollar (to some degree and over time), to recoup the costs. Chances are that I will get pennies on the dollar back (in benefits and utility), for every dollar I spend in taxes. You can tax yourself out of an economic upswing, but you can't tax yourself out of an economic downswing. So what are your reasons for electing Obama?

lrainman
July 30th, 2008, 22:35
So what are your reasons for electing Obama?

Can't wait to hear the answers to this!


GO McCain!!!!

WrenchMonkey
July 30th, 2008, 23:06
Well, "hope" for one...

And "change," too!

Duh.

Robert

JNickel101
July 30th, 2008, 23:18
Brady, I think you should stay out of this kind of thing....hear me out.

Your personal feelings get in the way of the truth on this a lot. Much the same as my personal feelings/past regarding criminals (especially killers, etc) get in the way of my thoughts on their punishment. I understand where your hatred comes from now and while I understand and respect it.....you need to look at what you write and realize you (again) blame one person for a lot of shit he had nothing to do with.

And Katrina? Give me a break....my brother's Guard unit from PA went down there for 6 months to help with recovery - he got shot at on a daily basis - I wish the hurricane had been stronger and COMPLETELY wiped that shitty city off the map. And taken the idiot residents (who were given time and opportunity to leave - and TOLD to leave - kinda reminds me of South Park - "IT'S COMIN RIGHT FOR US!"). To me, its a town full of idiots who then abused the relief efforts and FEMA money they were handed.

To me, thats what you get for building a damn city below sea level....but that's another thread to start....

I've often wondered where Obama gets off calling himself a black candidate when #1 he's half white and #2, pretty sure his other half was Arab.

More funnies than the Sunday paper!

GrimmJeeper
July 30th, 2008, 23:22
http://media1.break.com/dnet/media/2008/7/31jul30-wwrjd-republican-jesus.jpg (http://www.break.com/pictures/holy-farmers-tan546685.html)

JNickel101
July 30th, 2008, 23:23
Tax and spend, or borrow and spend? :huh:

I'll take my answer off the air.

:patriot:

Shouldn't you actually have to pay taxes before you're allowed to comment on this? :D

Bottom 50% of "taxpayers" in this country actually pay ZERO taxes, and most get back MORE than they paid in.

Fairtax.org bitches...:patriot:

http://www.taxfoundation.org/publications/show/250.html

I will give Obama this - he knows simple math - like, you can't divide by zero and zero minus zero is still zero. He hasn't said anything about tax cuts for the poor - because you can't cut anymore!!!!! LOLs

5-90
July 30th, 2008, 23:29
Indiana Air Guard got called up for Katrina as well - mom's new husband got a Katrina ribbon for the few months he was down there as well.

And since when does a city problem call for a national response anyhow?

I'll leave alone the asininity of building a city below sea level - yeah, Holland built a whole country down there, but they haven't been flooded out in recent memory, they've done a good job with their dikes, the windmills are probably still pumping away, and the Atlantic doesn't move.

The Mississippi changes course every, what, 75 years or so? Building against the river north of there doesn't make any sense, building in the actual delta is even dumber.

New Orleans has about as much "right to exist" as Los Angeles - just because there are millions of people there doesn't mean it makes any damned sense (LA is about eighteen hours away from breakdown, rioting, and starvation at any given time - from interrupting supply lines for either food or water. Leaving aside possible "racial tensions" - cf. Rodney King or the Watts riots...)

"What is Right is not always Popular, what is Popular is not always Right." Again, just because there are millions of people there doesn't mean the city makes any damned sense (and we'll leave aside my "we need fewer people, not more housing" argument for a later date and a separate thread. The world is probably two months from starvation at this point, simply due to population pressures...)

Vote for Obama? I'll probably do what I've been doing for years - write in for Roy Henry Boehm and James Dennis Watson III (either order - I don't care, and neither do they. I've corresponded with both men on and off for a few years - they're flattered, and they don't care what order I write them down in either.) It makes more sense than voting for Al Bundy and Dan Fielding - at least my vote gets counted somewhere, since it's for actual living people (Google them if you want to know more...)

Yes, I voted for Bush - both of them. Not because I felt either was "the best man for the job," but because I felt that each was "the best man available for the job" given the choices. If I don't like any candidates, then I'll vote Boehm & Watson.

5-90
July 30th, 2008, 23:34
Shouldn't you actually have to pay taxes before you're allowed to comment on this? :D

Bottom 50% of "taxpayers" in this country actually pay ZERO taxes, and most get back MORE than they paid in.

Fairtax.org bitches...:patriot:

http://www.taxfoundation.org/publications/show/250.html

I will give Obama this - he knows simple math - like, you can't divide by zero and zero minus zero is still zero. He hasn't said anything about tax cuts for the poor - because you can't cut anymore!!!!! LOLs

I'd like to see either a flat tax (acceptable) or a National Retail Sales Tax (better - you can control, to some degree, how much you pay) replace in toto the stupid system we have now. I'm tired of filling out, filing, and having to hang on to all this damned paperwork.

My tax returns seem to run anywhere between two and four inches thick - for my file copies. I'm about to send returns (compleat!) to the IRS "Postage Due" just to help satisfy their paper fetish...

TRNDRVR
July 31st, 2008, 06:30
Shouldn't you actually have to pay taxes before you're allowed to comment on this? :DI pay more in taxes than you could even imagine. :us:




Still haven't got my answer!

SBrad001
July 31st, 2008, 06:41
Brady, I think you should stay out of this kind of thing....hear me out.

Your personal feelings get in the way of the truth on this a lot. Much the same as my personal feelings/past regarding criminals (especially killers, etc) get in the way of my thoughts on their punishment. I understand where your hatred comes from now and while I understand and respect it.....you need to look at what you write and realize you (again) blame one person for a lot of shit he had nothing to do with.

And Katrina? Give me a break....my brother's Guard unit from PA went down there for 6 months to help with recovery - he got shot at on a daily basis - I wish the hurricane had been stronger and COMPLETELY wiped that shitty city off the map. And taken the idiot residents (who were given time and opportunity to leave - and TOLD to leave - kinda reminds me of South Park - "IT'S COMIN RIGHT FOR US!"). To me, its a town full of idiots who then abused the relief efforts and FEMA money they were handed.

To me, thats what you get for building a damn city below sea level....but that's another thread to start....

I've often wondered where Obama gets off calling himself a black candidate when #1 he's half white and #2, pretty sure his other half was Arab.

More funnies than the Sunday paper!

Okay, Katrina. I won't argue the validity of letting NO sink into the Gulf of Mexico. What pisses me off about Bush and Katrina is. . .

1: stayed on vacation and refused to hold a cabinet level meeting to discuss the situation until three days after NO had been flooded.

2: Director of FEMA, Mike Brown who was appointed by Mr Bush. Who's qualifications reached as high as being president of the American Arabian Breeders Association. "You're doing a heck of job, Brownie!"

I look at both things and I wonder how anyone can take Bush the Retarded seriously, or even take the Republican Party seriously.

JNickel101
July 31st, 2008, 06:55
I pay more in taxes than you could even imagine. :us:




Still haven't got my answer!

My fault, I thought I remembered an old post from you saying you didnt pay taxes....? I figured it had to do with your job or something.

My apologies!

JNickel101
July 31st, 2008, 07:00
Okay, Katrina. I won't argue the validity of letting NO sink into the Gulf of Mexico. What pisses me off about Bush and Katrina is. . .

1: stayed on vacation and refused to hold a cabinet level meeting to discuss the situation until three days after NO had been flooded.

2: Director of FEMA, Mike Brown who was appointed by Mr Bush. Who's qualifications reached as high as being president of the American Arabian Breeders Association. "You're doing a heck of job, Brownie!"

I look at both things and I wonder how anyone can take Bush the Retarded seriously, or even take the Republican Party seriously.

LOL....like thats a one sided thing? I dont take ANY politician seriously. From any side. I just try to pick the lesser of the two evils.

As was stated earlier - city/state problem should not be a Federal issue. I think FEMA should be disbanded. Let the states handle their own disasters. Sitting on your ass (Gov of Louisiana, Mayor of NO) and waiting for the Fed to bail you out is no excuse. There shouldn't have been a single person left in that city. They were ALL given the chance to evacuate to safety - and if they somehow missed out on that, it's the job of the Mayor and/or Governor to get the damn people to safety. Quit relying on Washington to do everything for you!!!

THAT is why government interferes with our lives so much - because American people expect everything to be done for them. See also - welfare.

TRNDRVR
July 31st, 2008, 07:01
My fault, I thought I remembered an old post from you saying you didnt pay taxes....? I figured it had to do with your job or something.

My apologies!
I may collect welfare, but I still pay taxes. (got to do my part)

TRNDRVR
July 31st, 2008, 07:05
There shouldn't have been a single person left in that city.But what about all that beer they left behind????
http://mysite.verizon.net/vzeqlc38/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderpictures/looteroriginal.jpg
:D

SBrad001
July 31st, 2008, 07:29
LOL....like thats a one sided thing? I dont take ANY politician seriously. From any side. I just try to pick the lesser of the two evils.

As was stated earlier - city/state problem should not be a Federal issue. I think FEMA should be disbanded. Let the states handle their own disasters. Sitting on your ass (Gov of Louisiana, Mayor of NO) and waiting for the Fed to bail you out is no excuse. There shouldn't have been a single person left in that city. They were ALL given the chance to evacuate to safety - and if they somehow missed out on that, it's the job of the Mayor and/or Governor to get the damn people to safety. Quit relying on Washington to do everything for you!!!

THAT is why government interferes with our lives so much - because American people expect everything to be done for them. See also - welfare.

The Gov of Louisiana and Mayor Nagin both should be shot too, both showed a level in incompetence that is unforgivable. But in the end the Federal government had a job to do. Regardless of whether or not you agree with assigning that job to the Federal Government, it still had a job to do. And Bush appointed the ****-ups that were supposed to do that job. They dropped the ball.

TRNDRVR
July 31st, 2008, 08:02
My fault, I thought I remembered an old post from you saying you didnt pay taxes....? I figured it had to do with your job or something.:doh:

I don't pay social security.

That's probably what you remember me saying. My bad!

Bent
July 31st, 2008, 08:03
:lecture:
School us, please.
:dunno:

JNickel101
July 31st, 2008, 08:04
:doh:

I don't pay social security.

That's probably what you remember me saying. My bad!

Ah, that's it! I knew it was something :D

....then I remember wondering out loud how I could get in on that deal....lol

Ben H
July 31st, 2008, 08:07
I pay more in taxes than you could even imagine. :us:




Still haven't got my answer!

Borrow and spend.

Now where is my answer?

Mudderoy
July 31st, 2008, 08:08
I support President Bush.

President Bush has had the courage to do what he thought needed to be done. I fully support the decision to go into Iraq, and no I don't think it had anything to do with ego, or payback.

It had to do with an idiot lying to the world and not allowing UN inspectors to do their job. If Saddam had just done what he was supposed to do we wouldn't be in Iraq now, and he would likely be alive.

If President Bush had been about ego, he would have done anything he could think of to keep everyone as happy as possible, and do nothing. Wait that is what the previous president did.

I don't like President Bush's stand on illegal immigration, specifically the open border. That should have been shut down right after 9/11 happened.

I also don't like the way the Republican president and republican controlled congress spent money like drunken sailors on shore leave.

As for the war in Iraq, we need to spend what ever money we need to to win, and to keep our soldiers as safe as possible. I would like to see congress pass a law that helps the families of fallen soldiers, and those soldiers that are wounded. They have worried enough just to stay alive in a war, we need to keep the financial worries out of their way for at least 5 years.

Anytime I see a soldier I thank them for their service, and let them know that if it wasn't for them fighting in both Iraq and Afghanistan that I firmly believe I would be fighting in this country to keep my family safe.

Obama may be a good person, and a knowledgeable man. I think Jimmy Carter was, and still is, however I believe they both did and would make horrible presidents.

You may not care for President Bush, but he is the best thing that has happen to this country in years. Instead of inaction we have action. We may be hated around the world, but the world does know that we will use our might and money to fight for freedom and the removal of dictators. In this politically correct world one man and one country has stood up and said "no more", and to hell with politics.

JNickel101
July 31st, 2008, 08:09
The Gov of Louisiana and Mayor Nagin both should be shot too, both showed a level in incompetence that is unforgivable. But in the end the Federal government had a job to do. Regardless of whether or not you agree with assigning that job to the Federal Government, it still had a job to do. And Bush appointed the ****-ups that were supposed to do that job. They dropped the ball.

And in the end, we did BILLIONS too much. Taxpayers money spent to rebuild a dumbass city that will get ripped apart and flooded @ the next hurricane. In addition to the corruption involved by those filing false claims, then using their money to buy luxury items.

I'm sorry, that is assinine. You call Bush stupid? I would have done the same thing - I would have told NO "serves you right for building your city there - idiots".

It is not the government's job to fix stupid or bail out the stupid. I'm also against the gov't giving money to "victims of forest fires" in tree hugging states like California. Serves them right. If they let loggers do their job, they wouldn't have fires burning hundreds of thousands of acres. Part of the natural life cycle of a forest is to burn down. If you do not do something to interject that, then don't cry when your mountain mansion gets burnt to the ground along with the old growth forest surrounding it.

When was the last time you heard of a forest fire doing that in Pennsylvania? Probably never - because loggers like my dad keep the forests in check.

Bent
July 31st, 2008, 08:10
Ah, that's it! I knew it was something :D

....then I remember wondering out loud how I could get in on that deal....lol
Railroad(?) and some federal don't pay into it. My late wife didn't either; Social Security Admin. It can have it's downside.

JNickel101
July 31st, 2008, 08:15
Railroad(?) and some federal don't pay into it. My late wife didn't either; Social Security Admin. It can have it's downside.

My military pension is my reason for not wanting it. Among many others. I'll also get medical when I retire, which means I'm paying into Medicare/Medicaid whatever it is for no reason!!!

Bent
July 31st, 2008, 08:17
It is not the government's job to fix stupid or bail out the stupid.

You may not want to go there right now.

:D

TRNDRVR
July 31st, 2008, 08:19
Railroad(?) and some federal don't pay into it. My late wife didn't either; Social Security Admin. Don't forget welfare receipients.
It can have it's downside.Only to those who plan on trying to collect social security. My wife, who pays into social security, will never collect it.

Ray H
July 31st, 2008, 08:20
I'll probably do what I've been doing for years - write in for Roy Henry Boehm and James Dennis Watson III (either order - I don't care, and neither do they. I've corresponded with both men on and off for a few years - they're flattered, and they don't care what order I write them down in either.) It makes more sense than voting for Al Bundy and Dan Fielding - at least my vote gets counted somewhere, since it's for actual living people (Google them if you want to know more...)



???????????? I googled them. All I came up with was that Boehm founded the Navy SEALS. Im not sure that makes him presidential material.

Bent
July 31st, 2008, 08:22
Don't forget welfare receipients.
Only to those who plan on trying to collect social security. My wife, who pays into social security, will never collect it.
Had my wife out lived me she would not have been able to collect survivors benefits from mine as most would be able to do.

JNickel101
July 31st, 2008, 08:38
You may not want to go there right now.

:D

Anything in particular you're referring to? Or just everything in general? :D

Bent
July 31st, 2008, 08:42
Anything in particular you're referring to? Or just everything in general? :D
Mortgage fiasco.
:shhh:

TRNDRVR
July 31st, 2008, 08:44
Borrow and spend.Do you really think that that is the fiscally responsible thing to do?

Is this how you conduct your own personal finances?

Borrow and spend is financial irresponsibility if you ask me.



Carry on! http://www.clipartof.com/images/emoticons/xsmall2/1974_eating_popcorn.gif

JNickel101
July 31st, 2008, 08:44
Mortgage fiasco.
:shhh:

Ah, yes, silly me....

Yep, add that one to the list...."I'm an idiot, but its ok b/c the government will come save the day...in its own farked up way."

JNickel101
July 31st, 2008, 08:46
Do you really think that that is the fiscally responsible thing to do?

Is this how you conduct your own personal finances?

Borrow and spend is financial irresponsibility if you ask me.



Carry on! http://www.clipartof.com/images/emoticons/xsmall2/1974_eating_popcorn.gif

Stealing isn't any better. Which is what the government does when it taxes me and gives the money to someone else. Guess its my own fault for working and holding a steady job.

And "borrow and spend" should be the title of the Democrat-led Congressional Budget that has what, a $400+ billion deficit?

TRNDRVR
July 31st, 2008, 08:53
Stealing isn't any better. Which is what the government does when it taxes me and gives the money to someone else. Guess its my own fault for working and holding a steady job.

And "borrow and spend" should be the title of the Democrat-led Congressional Budget that has what, a $400+ billion deficit?So you honestly think that Bush has nothing to do with the way this country is right now, and it's basically all Clinton's (who hasn't been in office for 8 years now) fault?

I bet you watch FOX news and Bill O'Reilly too?

:helpme:

Mudderoy
July 31st, 2008, 08:55
The Gov of Louisiana and Mayor Nagin both should be shot too, both showed a level in incompetence that is unforgivable. But in the end the Federal government had a job to do. Regardless of whether or not you agree with assigning that job to the Federal Government, it still had a job to do. And Bush appointed the ****-ups that were supposed to do that job. They dropped the ball.

http://muckleroy.com/images/makemyday.jpg

JNickel101
July 31st, 2008, 09:00
Not saying that - but labling the budget and calling it "Bush's budget" when its Congress that comes up with it all and votes to approve it....well thats just stupid. Its a collective effort - all I'm trying to do is get people to quit blaming ONE PERSON for everything that is wrong in this country. You and Brady both like to do it and its just plain silly. I just personally think one side is worse than the other. Both sides suck balls. The last time the GOP controlled Congress, their last budget had something like a $137 billion deficit. Still shitty. But I just lean the way of which is less shitty, IMO.

I didn't mention Clinton at all....?

No, but I do like Family Guy.

Mudderoy
July 31st, 2008, 09:00
Do you really think that that is the fiscally responsible thing to do?

Is this how you conduct your own personal finances?

Borrow and spend is financial irresponsibility if you ask me.



Carry on! http://www.clipartof.com/images/emoticons/xsmall2/1974_eating_popcorn.gif

Your Jeep has a blow out. You do not have the money to buy a new tire.

Are you financially responcible and walk to work, call in sick, or take vacation?

Do you whip out the credit card and buy the tire, go to work and pay the loan back?

JNickel101
July 31st, 2008, 09:22
Your Jeep has a blow out. You do not have the money to buy a new tire.

Are you financially responcible and walk to work, call in sick, or take vacation?

Do you whip out the credit card and buy the tire, go to work and pay the loan back?

If you were financially responsible, the first statement would not be true. You would have the $ in a savings, checking or emergency fund (between mattress, buried in the back yard, etc - your choice) to buy a new tire - or you'd have a spare.

Was that a trick question? :D

(I do see what you're getting at...I just couldn't resist)

Mudderoy
July 31st, 2008, 09:25
If you were financially responsible, the first statement would not be true. You would have the $ in a savings, checking or emergency fund (between mattress, buried in the back yard, etc - your choice) to buy a new tire - or you'd have a spare.

Was that a trick question? :D

(I do see what you're getting at...I just couldn't resist)

rofl, yes I know. I was hoping that that point would slip by.

Actually in my scenerio Bill Clinton took all my extra money in the form of taxes, so that's why I didn't have any money for the tire to start with. lol

Ben H
July 31st, 2008, 09:39
Do you really think that that is the fiscally responsible thing to do?

Is this how you conduct your own personal finances?

Borrow and spend is financial irresponsibility if you ask me.



Carry on! http://www.clipartof.com/images/emoticons/xsmall2/1974_eating_popcorn.gif

I will have to run my personal finances like that if Obama starts his tax increases. Tax the people to the point of poverty is morally irresponsible, if you ask me.

TRNDRVR
July 31st, 2008, 10:02
Your Jeep has a blow out. You do not have the money to buy a new tire.

Are you financially responcible and walk to work, call in sick, or take vacation?

Do you whip out the credit card and buy the tire, go to work and pay the loan back?This is a question of no comparison.

:conceited

Mudderoy
July 31st, 2008, 10:24
This is a question of no comparison.

:conceited

Hmmm, well the response was a little longer than "no".

jdurbach
July 31st, 2008, 11:06
So on the topic of taxes with our current system which liberals love to hate the top 3% of the tax bracket pays roughly a combined thrid of our nations taxes. Also need more proof of irresponsibility look up Bill Ayers on google and see what you find. Obama has been quoted as saying Bill and I are "good friends Bill is an american terrorist that has said in and interview that he wishes that is group the weatherman bombs killed more people. If he can screw up the friends he chooses this bad how do you think he will do in choosing the best direction for our country?!!! Also sure you may not like Bush but if you look at both Obama and McCains conservatisim vs liberalism scores McCain is way closer to the middle. Who do you think is most likely to actually work with both sides and get something done as the Pelosi has not delivered on one things she said they would. Glen Beck put it best
Obama is like a flashy brightly colored book cover it gets your attention but there's really nothing in it. McCain is like an old tattered book that wouldn't catch your eye but if you opened it to read it you'd be glad you did.

jdurbach
July 31st, 2008, 11:07
Also i'd like to add i'm not s rich person I'm a college student that goes to college on all loans between my single mother and I and she works three jobs to get by.

jdurbach
July 31st, 2008, 11:09
''I don't regret setting bombs,'' Bill Ayers said. ''I feel we didn't do enough.''
From the NY Times

cal
July 31st, 2008, 12:03
rofl, yes I know. I was hoping that that point would slip by.

Actually in my scenerio Bill Clinton took all my extra money in the form of taxes, so that's why I didn't have any money for the tire to start with. lol


Bullshit. You spent your extra money instead of putting a little aside for an emergency, just like I did. You do not get to blame taxes for irresponsible spending.

Bent
July 31st, 2008, 12:05
Also i'd like to add i'm not a rich person I'm a college student...
Hang in there; people that can think on their own tend to not be too popular in those left wing brainwashing factories.

Back on topic, the OP should have done a little checking before he posted. Even with the often liberal slant, Snopes makes a few good points refuting the list.
http://www.snopes.com/politics/obama/50lies.asp (http://www.snopes.com/politics/obama/50lies.asp)

5-90
July 31st, 2008, 12:53
???????????? I googled them. All I came up with was that Boehm founded the Navy SEALS. Im not sure that makes him presidential material.

Both men are proven leaders - willing to do whatever needs to be done in the face of opposition, accustomed to hardship, and spending money responsibly.

What is your definition of "Presidential material", just out of curiousity? Considering what I've seen of late (last thirty years or so - since JFK,) I've not seen many men bringing conviction to the Oval Office - save Reagan.

It seems we (as a nation) are more interested in form than function for the job, and we continue to elect "career politicians" who are very much not trying to annoy anyone. Mistake!

Of course, the downfall of the system was when "politician" became a career option. As far as I'm concerned, one should be limited to ten years in office - collectively - maximum, with no retirement option and the pay should be vastly reduced. "Elected service" has largely become a sinecure for people who, in the main, lack skills or talents that are saleable in the private sector, and their only commodity is jawbone. Also a mistake.

If we're going to continue to "elect" our leaders, how about a few changes?

We'll leave the age requirement along (25 for the House, 30 for the Senate, 35 for the President.)

A candidate must demonstrate himself as a stable tradesman before his candidacy. This rules out lawyers, "economists," "political science" degrees (now there's a misnomer!) and all the other rot we've seen in office. Carpenters, plumbers, metalworkers, and the like - and medical doctors, since medicine can be considered a "trade" where something both tangible and useful is given in exchange for money paid - since they're used to actually doing something.) Prior service (Army/Navy/Air Force/Marine Corps/Coast Guard/Merchant Marine) also accepted - career or term.

Any candidate will be limited to ten years in any office at any level, and no retirement. This indicates a willingness to go back to work when they're done.

The candidate will be willing to accept a reduced salary while in office as well. I like the way Vermont handles state electees - a $100 per annum stipend while in office. Hell, they get enough "official" benefits.

While we're about it, no speaking fees during or after their terms. Entirely too many rich politicians out there...

Care to add to the list?

Ecomike
July 31st, 2008, 21:09
Not saying that - but labling the budget and calling it "Bush's budget" when its Congress that comes up with it all and votes to approve it....well thats just stupid. Its a collective effort - all I'm trying to do is get people to quit blaming ONE PERSON for everything that is wrong in this country. You and Brady both like to do it and its just plain silly. I just personally think one side is worse than the other. Both sides suck balls. The last time the GOP controlled Congress, their last budget had something like a $137 billion deficit. Still shitty. But I just lean the way of which is less shitty, IMO.

I didn't mention Clinton at all....?

No, but I do like Family Guy.

During Bush's first 6 years in office, with a republican dominated senate and congress, he never once vetoed a single bill or budget busting act of congress! He never once used the veto power to try and reduce the deficit.

Tom R.
July 31st, 2008, 21:32
My military pension is my reason for not wanting it. Among many others. I'll also get medical when I retire, which means I'm paying into Medicare/Medicaid whatever it is for no reason!!!
Medicare plays a role with Tricare (when you turn 65). And by the time you retire, who knows what changes will have taken place, especially concerning the cost of Tricare Prime.

scottmcneal
July 31st, 2008, 21:38
They all LIE

Ray H
July 31st, 2008, 21:56
Both men are proven leaders - willing to do whatever needs to be done in the face of opposition, accustomed to hardship, and spending money responsibly.

What is your definition of "Presidential material", just out of curiousity?

I couldnt really find anything they had done except for the SEAL thing. I dont think that by itself qualifies him. I can take your word for the rest though.
As for "presidential material" I can put up with just about anything but a liar. there are many ways to accomplish making this a better country to live in and I am way under qualified to know what most of them are so I have to trust the president and other elected officials. Honesty is the basis of that trust. I think most all of our presidents have had good intentions and some have had good ideas to go along with them, but the intentions and ideas are overshadowed when they lie. That just kills it for me.
Other things a president should have, proven leadership, willingness to look further in the future than 8 years, ability to fill his administration with honset and intelligent advisors and willingness to actually listen to them.
The problem I have with Obama is I dont trust him. He cant overcome that with me, I just dont trust him.
I trust McCain but im not sure he has the stomach to take criticism for the hard decisions. I think he will take the easy road just to avoid bad press.
This will draw some booos and hisses but the honesty and stomach for unpopular decisions are the reasons I like Bush. his problem was he surrounded himself with idiots for the most part.
Anyway, I dont knwo who i'll vote for, I just know it wont be Obama.

lrainman
July 31st, 2008, 23:59
I can see Obama and his fellow DEM's taking away our public lands by the thousands of acres, which in turn means less wheeling area, then there is the whole topic of gun control that really is a scary thought. There is no way that I could vote for a person that I feel will take away my freedom, which he will do!

One question for the OBAMA supporters is this CHANGE, has he ever clarified what the hell that is?

Ray H
August 1st, 2008, 00:08
One question for the OBAMA supporters is this CHANGE, has he ever clarified what the hell that is?

Im not an Obama supporter but I will answer. You dont need to worry about this "change" because it wont happen. If he does get elected, He's going to be like a 9th grader on his first day of high school. Wondering the halls, lost, with no friends, he wont know where is next class is or even where his locker is. He will just be figuring things out when he graduates in four years, then he will leave school and not come back.

Trail-Axe
August 1st, 2008, 21:36
This will draw some booos and hisses but the honesty and stomach for unpopular decisions are the reasons I like Bush.

No booos or hisses from this old man. History will reveal that president G.W. Bush did a fine job cleaning up after our last president. Now we just need to elect a president that is strong enough to stand up to Iran. Our next war is with them, and it ain't going to be pretty!

Trail-Axe
August 1st, 2008, 21:39
Im not an Obama supporter but I will answer. You dont need to worry about this "change" because it wont happen. If he does get elected, He's going to be like a 9th grader on his first day of high school. Wondering the halls, lost, with no friends, he wont know where is next class is or even where his locker is. He will just be figuring things out when he graduates in four years, then he will leave school and not come back.

Lets hope (which rhymes with VOTE) he ends up going home with his tail tucked, and never gets a chance to start.

tbburg
August 1st, 2008, 21:39
Our next war is with them, and it ain't going to be pretty!

Oh, I don't know,...

You get that red-orange glow up through the center of your mushroom cloud,.. It could look real nice! :)

scottmcneal
August 1st, 2008, 21:41
No booos or hisses from this old man. History will reveal that president G.W. Bush did a fine job cleaning up after our last president. Now we just need to elect a president that is strong enough to stand up to Iran. Our next war is with them, and it ain't going to be pretty!



I think 2 reallllllllllly BIG bombs will work.... Ok we can level it if you want :cheers:

Ecomike
August 1st, 2008, 22:54
And you all wonder why Iran and N. Korea want their own Nukes! All they need to do is run into threads like this to convince themselves the US can not be trusted, and that they are next, once we get finshed with Iraq.

:doh:

Ecomike
August 1st, 2008, 23:01
I can see Obama and his fellow DEM's taking away our public lands by the thousands of acres, which in turn means less wheeling area, then there is the whole topic of gun control that really is a scary thought. There is no way that I could vote for a person that I feel will take away my freedom, which he will do!

One question for the OBAMA supporters is this CHANGE, has he ever clarified what the hell that is?
Obama is more likely to add to those public lands, and ensure that they do exist for our use. Last time I checked Obama was not in favor of excessive gun control laws. IIRC he supported the recent Supreme Court decision that threw out the Washington DC gun control law that outlawed personal hand guns in the city.

His detailed plans for change are online at his web site:

http://www.barackobama.com/issues/

Tom R.
August 1st, 2008, 23:07
Yeah, I'm sure both Iran and North Korea are putting a lot of stock in a Non-Tech/Off Topic thread from a Cherokee forum. :rolleyes:

fscrig75
August 2nd, 2008, 05:33
Last time I checked Obama was not in favor of excessive gun control laws. IIRC he supported the recent Supreme Court decision that threw out the Washington DC gun control law that outlawed personal hand guns in the city.

Of course he supports it. Its the law and as a citizen/Senator he has no choice but to support it. But the question is whether he believes in the law. I don't think he has ever said he believes the decision made is the correct or incorrect one.

http://www.boston.com/news/nation/articles/2008/06/29/a_silver_bullet_for_obama/

JNickel101
August 2nd, 2008, 05:52
And you all wonder why Iran and N. Korea want their own Nukes! All they need to do is run into threads like this to convince themselves the US can not be trusted, and that they are next, once we get finshed with Iraq.

:doh:

If they weren't taunting us, refusing to let UN inspectors in, and just being overall threatening jackasses....we wouldn't be talking like this.

Its not like we're sitting here saying "lets nuke Hungary, they're dumb" or "lets nuke the Congo, wouldn't that be fun to watch".

Us trusted? All they have to do is quit being the bully on the playground....maybe they'd have more friends.

tbburg
August 2nd, 2008, 10:25
Us trusted? All they have to do is quit being the bully on the playground....maybe they'd have more friends.Isn't that what everyone says about the US?


Let's face it. Do we really want to be "Friends" with the current N. Korean govt?
Or Iran?
Or Nigeria?
Libya,...

The list goes on and on,..

Mudderoy
August 2nd, 2008, 10:38
I had to laugh when I saw this topic. A politician lying?!?!?! I mean that's like saying I got wet when I went swimming. Of course they lie, they have to so they can be elected.

I've said this before, holding public office should be like jury duty. If you own a house then you may be selected to hold public office.

Husband "Damn it!"
Wife "What is it honey?!?!"
Husband "I got a President summons!"
Wife "Again? You just did that 4 years ago."
Husband "I'm not going, it's too far, and the parking is expensive."

JNickel101
August 2nd, 2008, 10:39
Everyone but Canada, UK, Aus....we refer ourselves here as "4 eyes" :D we only trust each other...

Anyway...No, I'm not saying we should be friends with them - but when France and Russia don't even wanna be your friend - you know you have a problem :D

tbburg
August 2nd, 2008, 10:42
I say if France and Russia don't want to be your friends, your on the right track.:D

JNickel101
August 2nd, 2008, 10:45
Maybe we have more in common with Iran than we thought :gag:

tbburg
August 2nd, 2008, 10:54
Sorry, but wasn't it France and Russia that were the biggest cheaters slipping around the UN "Oil for food" program in Iraq. Hasn't it been France and Russia historically blocking any kind of action on Iran? They are now slowly coming around(more like being forced to come around by world opinion?)

No, I don't thing we have much in common with Iran.

Ecomike
August 2nd, 2008, 11:31
Of course he supports it. Its the law and as a citizen/Senator he has no choice but to support it. But the question is whether he believes in the law. I don't think he has ever said he believes the decision made is the correct or incorrect one.

http://www.boston.com/news/nation/articles/2008/06/29/a_silver_bullet_for_obama/

Interesting, so was their conclusion:

"Ironically, the impact of last week's decision may be to deprive the GOP of a valuable political weapon. By ending the debate over whether the Second Amendment confers an individual right to own guns, the justices have just made it safer for gun owners to vote Democratic. McCain cheered the court's ruling, but Obama may prove the biggest winner of all."

The real battle always will be how to guarantee the right to bear arms, and own guns, while keeping guns out of the hands of know violent felons, and mental patients with serious issues.

I have always wondered where the limit is with the right to bear arms, personally I have always been fond of my right and left arms, LOL :roflmao:,

but seriously these days a gun is not very useful against a cruise missile. ONE of the reasons the founding fathers saw fit to add the right to bear arms by the people was for defense against despotic, would be dictators and would be kings. While a population armed to the teeth with guns is less likely to be subjegated by a dictator, I shudder at the thought of trying to defend freedom here with just hand guns against cruise missiles and nukes.

Now if every home owner had his own stash of cruise missiles, we would be much safer!:patriot:

Ecomike
August 2nd, 2008, 11:44
No, I don't thing we have much in common with Iran.

Actualy we have a lot in common with Iran. They are the second largest oil exporter in the world, and, I think, we are the largest oil importer in the world.

One of the reasons the Iranians hate us is because our government installed, helped install, and supported dictators like Saddam Hussien and the Shaw of Iran. The Iranians hated the Shaw of Iran, he was not much better than Saddam Hussien......

Iran does not have troops in Mexico or Canada. We do have troops in Iraq.

Continuing to give the people of a country, or countries reasons to hate us and miss trust us is not condusive to generating peace in the world.

JNickel101
August 2nd, 2008, 11:48
Sorry, but wasn't it France and Russia that were the biggest cheaters slipping around the UN "Oil for food" program in Iraq. Hasn't it been France and Russia historically blocking any kind of action on Iran? They are now slowly coming around(more like being forced to come around by world opinion?)

No, I don't thing we have much in common with Iran.

It was a joke. Hence the gag. anyway....

My point was...as corrupt as France and Russia are at doing stuff under the table, the fact that they are pissed at/scared of Iran right now (Russia is terrified of their apparent missile capabilities) should say something about how far Iran has gone to piss off the world.

Jeep XJ_YJ
August 2nd, 2008, 11:50
New new new new world order

If we mess with IRAN, China(who gets all their oil from Iran, for uranium) will NOT BE HAPPY

JNickel101
August 2nd, 2008, 11:55
Actualy we have a lot in common with Iran. They are the second largest oil exporter in the world, and, I think, we are the largest oil importer in the world.

One of the reasons the Iranians hate us is because our government installed, helped install, and supported dictators like Saddam Hussien and the Shaw of Iran. The Iranians hated the Shaw of Iran, he was not much better than Saddam Hussien......

Iran does not have troops in Mexico or Canada. We do have troops in Iraq.

Continuing to give the people of a country, or countries reasons to hate us and miss trust us is not condusive to generating peace in the world.

Well, if you're trying to say we should quit sending aid to the world, then I'm all for it. I'm also hoping that after Iraq and Afghanistan are stabilized, that we stop deploying our troops all over the world to end communism and/or corrupt dictators who threaten neighboring countries or who commit genocide. F*ck em. Lets build giant walls around our country, quit letting in every asshole that thinks they have a right to be here, and live off of our own natural resources and economy. Let the rest of the world kill itself, especially everyone from Africa, across the Middle East and throughout Asia.

:thumbup:

tbburg
August 2nd, 2008, 11:57
I shudder at the thought of trying to defend freedom here with just hand guns against cruise missiles and nukes.

Well, the good news is, if anybody else is trying to launch a cruise missile/nuke at you, the US Govt. will be trying to protect you. If, on the other hand, the problem is the US Govt. itself, the problem becomes theirs. The government is made up of individual people, and they are not bullet-proof.
Which half of the population do they nuke? 48% of the population admit to owning guns.(Question - what % of the population own guns and deny it in poles?) So, after they launch their cruise missile, they try to go home. How do they enforce the 600 yard radius bullet-free zone around their body? The president does a pretty good job, but how well would that level of protection extend to, say, just members of congress and their immediate families. How about the people actually responsible for launching/servicing/guarding the missiles?

Figure 6 million active Govt agents/employees/solders/elected officials that are the actual problem. 112 million admitted gun owners. 19 : 1 ? In the kind of emergency you're imagining, I'll take those odds.

JNickel101
August 2nd, 2008, 12:19
Well, the good news is, if anybody else is trying to launch a cruise missile/nuke at you, the US Govt. will be trying to protect you. If, on the other hand, the problem is the US Govt. itself, the problem becomes theirs. The government is made up of individual people, and they are not bullet-proof.
Which half of the population do they nuke? 48% of the population admit to owning guns.(Question - what % of the population own guns and deny it in poles?) So, after they launch their cruise missile, they try to go home. How do they enforce the 600 yard radius bullet-free zone around their body? The president does a pretty good job, but how well would that level of protection extend to, say, just members of congress and their immediate families. How about the people actually responsible for launching/servicing/guarding the missiles?

Figure 6 million active Govt agents/employees/solders/elected officials that are the actual problem. 112 million admitted gun owners. 19 : 1 ? In the kind of emergency you're imagining, I'll take those odds.

The mere thought of the US government launching weapons against its population is as ludacris as any thought anyone could have. I thought of a million funny analogies here, but none compared to that.

and JeepXJ_YJ, you have made enough retarded posts....

buschwhaked
August 2nd, 2008, 12:23
Figure 6 million active Govt agents/employees/solders/elected officials that are the actual problem. 112 million admitted gun owners. 19 : 1 ? In the kind of emergency you're imagining, I'll take those odds.

Also keep in mind that if it really came down to the gov't going nutzo on citizens, there would be massive sedition from the armed forces. We don't just serve the President, and they would be targeting our families as well.

Also keep in mind that Russia for a time was actually supporting Iran's nuclear program and blocking any Security Council resolutions attempting to put pressure on Iran.

Long story short, everything has to do with oil. Stop importing oil, find a viable energy alternative, and sit back on your lawn chair as the rest of the world burns attempting to pick up the scraps of oil that are left. Then we wouldn't have to give a damn if China, Russia, and Iran jerk each other off trying to be friends and corner the oil market.

The question then becomes, which candidate do you think is going to maximize the resources of the US towards a viable alternative energy plan?

fscrig75
August 2nd, 2008, 12:31
The mere thought of the US government launching weapons against its population is as ludacris as any thought anyone could have. I thought of a million funny analogies here, but none compared to that.

Yes it is crazy, but then you got those nuts out there that believe Bush had the towel heads fly into the twin towers.

tbburg
August 2nd, 2008, 12:47
The mere thought of the US government launching weapons against its population is as ludacris as any thought anyone could have. I thought of a million funny analogies here, but none compared to that.


Yes it is crazy, but then you got those nuts out there that believe Bush had the towel heads fly into the twin towers.

Funny Ha Ha. Laughing my a** off. Remember Randy Weaver? Ring any bells? I believe, if memory serves, that after they killed his son and his wife, arresting him and keeping him in jail for 3 years, they couldn't even prove the original charge(not guilty) and ended up paying him 3 million dollars. Put the guy(FBI agent) who fired the shot at the wife in the witness protection program.

The agency responsible for that little fiasco has taken delivery of a small fleet of OV-10Ds and also a small number of M-2 Bradey IFVs to help them with their "tax collection" duties.

Trail-Axe
August 2nd, 2008, 23:43
Lets build giant walls around our country, quit letting in every asshole that thinks they have a right to be here, and live off of our own natural resources and economy. Let the rest of the world kill itself, especially everyone from Africa, across the Middle East and throughout Asia.

:thumbup:

Typical head buried in the sand liberal fantasy (see no evil, is no evil). If we left the world alone, they would kill themselves alright, and then the strong that survived would come and kill us. The world left Hitler alone, until he was strong enough to knock down the walls.

Ecomike
August 3rd, 2008, 00:09
Typical head buried in the sand liberal fantasy (see no evil, is no evil). If we left the world alone, they would kill themselves alright, and then the strong that survived would come and kill us. The world left Hitler alone, until he was strong enough to knock down the walls.

WOW, and here all this time I thought it was a typical head buried in the sand ultra concevative (John Birch Society) fantasy!

I guess its better that we go over there and help them kill each other?

Just kidding.:jester:

Being a card carrying liberal myself, I find it funny that I agree with what you said! Just goes to show how silly some labels really are.

JNickel101
August 3rd, 2008, 02:20
WOW, and here all this time I thought it was a typical head buried in the sand ultra concevative (John Birch Society) fantasy!

I guess its better that we go over there and help them kill each other?

Just kidding.:jester:

Being a card carrying liberal myself, I find it funny that I agree with what you said! Just goes to show how silly some labels really are.

And I think its funny that I find what BOTH of you said very funny....

I should emphasize that my statement was incredibly sarcastic - while I do think we need to build walls, at least in the southern US - and while I also think we need to quit giving so much aid to foreign countries without attaching a bill to it - I realize we can't crawl inside our own shell and be happy.

And damn you Trail-Axe if you EVER suggest I am a liberal again....

:twak:

:D

(BTW its sense not sence)

fscrig75
August 3rd, 2008, 06:09
Funny Ha Ha. Laughing my a** off. Remember Randy Weaver? Ring any bells? I believe, if memory serves, that after they killed his son and his wife, arresting him and keeping him in jail for 3 years, they couldn't even prove the original charge(not guilty) and ended up paying him 3 million dollars. Put the guy(FBI agent) who fired the shot at the wife in the witness protection program.

The agency responsible for that little fiasco has taken delivery of a small fleet of OV-10Ds and also a small number of M-2 Bradey IFVs to help them with their "tax collection" duties.

That dude was part of the Aryan nation, so if you want to defend him then be my guest. But I guess he should've just answered his door. Sorry I don't have any pitty for his type of people, even if what went down wasn't right. We don't need his type of people in this country, Aryan nation types.

If the US Marshals/ATF want some M-2s, well more power to them. I hear enough people on this forum screaming about how they should be allowed to own any weapon system that Light Infantry carrier. So if citizens can have an AT-4 then Federal Agencies should have something that can stand up to it.

tbburg
August 3rd, 2008, 10:52
That dude was part of the Aryan nation, so if you want to defend him then be my guest. But I guess he should've just answered his door. Sorry I don't have any pitty for his type of people, even if what went down wasn't right. We don't need his type of people in this country, Aryan nation types.Read up on the subject. I don't think he belonged to the ayran nation. Weaver was a racist and a white separatist, and he was an a******e. Fine. I agree with you. So anybody that gets labeled an a******e or a racist is fair game for the Government. I guess I'm on the list as an A*****e. Maybe I'd better start wearing a vest and helmet every time I step outside.
If the US Marshals/ATF want some M-2s,....The US marshals service is basically a Federal police force. They have access to all the hi-tec systems, armored cars, etc they want or need. The ATF is a tax agency. Department of the treasury. Yes, they keep track of all the registered machine guns in th US,... for TAX purposes! No registered machine gun owner has ever taken a shot at an ATF agent, ever. They are some of the most law abiding citizens in the nation. Over 90% of the "convictions" ATF gets are paperwork violations. They're bean counters. You think it's ok for a glorified division of the IRS to use armored, tracked, vehicles equipped with 25mm cannon. They need aircraft that are capable of close air support,... that can deliver ordinance?
You honestly think this is a good idea?

My point was:
The mere thought of the US government launching weapons against its population is as ludacris as any thought anyone could have.They were shooting at him and his family because of a tax violation related to a shotgun that was too short. No, not a short barreled shotgun, a break action shotgun with a shortened(although still "full length")stock. As a direct result of that fiasco, the ATF went out and acquired M-2s and OV-10s. If the thought of a US government agency using heavy military ordinance is such a "mere ludacris thought", then why didn't ATF get conventional armored cars(which would be less expensive, less expensive to operate/maintain, and require little/no specialized training) and conventional light aircraft/helicopters equipped with the FLIR systems they said they wanted?(which would be less expensive, less expensive to operate/maintain, and require little/no specialized training)

Yes, I'm probably paranoid. And no, it's not quite as ludacris and JNickel101 seems to think.

Edit: Weaver was on speaking terms with the local sheriff. If they really wanted to arrest him, one agent could have driven out with the sheriff, knocked on the door, and handed him a warrant. They never tried.

fscrig75
August 3rd, 2008, 11:17
We can all sit here and play monday morning QB about what went on at Ruby Ridge but the guy in charge on the ground at the time made a decision and thats what they went with.
Your right I don't know if he was part of the Aryan nation but on the little I did read about him there is plenty accusing him of it, and nothing denying it.(I like to make assumptions)
Now don't bust my balls for not knowing everything about Weaver, when your description of what the ATF does is pretty narrow, oh and the ATF is no longer part of the Treasury Department. Again the ATF feels that they might need Bradleys in certain situations, so what. I bet some people in Cali thought the local cops should've had something bigger when that nut stole the M60 tank.

Ecomike
August 3rd, 2008, 11:46
Read up on the subject. I don't think he belonged to the ayran nation. Weaver was a racist and a white separatist, and he was an a******e. Fine. I agree with you. So anybody that gets labeled an a******e or a racist is fair game for the Government. I guess I'm on the list as an A*****e. Maybe I'd better start wearing a vest and helmet every time I step outside.
The US marshals service is basically a Federal police force. They have access to all the hi-tec systems, armored cars, etc they want or need. The ATF is a tax agency. Department of the treasury. Yes, they keep track of all the registered machine guns in th US,... for TAX purposes! No registered machine gun owner has ever taken a shot at an ATF agent, ever. They are some of the most law abiding citizens in the nation. Over 90% of the "convictions" ATF gets are paperwork violations. They're bean counters. You think it's ok for a glorified division of the IRS to use armored, tracked, vehicles equipped with 25mm cannon. They need aircraft that are capable of close air support,... that can deliver ordinance?
You honestly think this is a good idea?

My point was:
They were shooting at him and his family because of a tax violation related to a shotgun that was too short. No, not a short barreled shotgun, a break action shotgun with a shortened(although still "full length")stock. As a direct result of that fiasco, the ATF went out and acquired M-2s and OV-10s. If the thought of a US government agency using heavy military ordinance is such a "mere ludacris thought", then why didn't ATF get conventional armored cars(which would be less expensive, less expensive to operate/maintain, and require little/no specialized training) and conventional light aircraft/helicopters equipped with the FLIR systems they said they wanted?(which would be less expensive, less expensive to operate/maintain, and require little/no specialized training)

Yes, I'm probably paranoid. And no, it's not quite as ludacris and JNickel101 seems to think.

Edit: Weaver was on speaking terms with the local sheriff. If they really wanted to arrest him, one agent could have driven out with the sheriff, knocked on the door, and handed him a warrant. They never tried.

I was starting to think I was the only paronoid one left in this country! :wave:

But then again maybe they just wanted to send a message to tax dodgers?:eek:

Jeep XJ_YJ
August 3rd, 2008, 11:47
The mere thought of the US government launching weapons against its population is as ludacris as any thought anyone could have. I thought of a million funny analogies here, but none compared to that.

and JeepXJ_YJ, you have made enough retarded posts....

Sept 11 ?

Your posts aren't retarded, because your another brainwashed idiot. You sound like you have served before, I thank you for that, but you are Ignorant

tbburg
August 3rd, 2008, 12:15
....when your description of what the ATF does is pretty narrow, oh and the ATF is no longer part of the Treasury Department.
Correct, they were moved to the Department of Homeland Security. Their duties, however, did not change. I suppose we could argue all day about this, but my description of "ATFE", "ATF", "BATF", or whatever acronym they want to use is pretty full and complete.

Why do you think they are the Bureau of:
Alcohol (control of tax stamps and licensing production/distribution for interstate commerce)
Tobbaco (control of tax stamps and licensing production/distribution for interstate commerce)
Firearms (control of tax stamps and licensing production/distribution for interstate commerce)
and Explosives (a subdivision of "firearms", class III license for the production/distribution of "destructive devices" in interstate commerce)
Again the ATF feels that they might need Bradleys in certain situations, so what. I bet some people in Cali thought the local cops should've had something bigger when that nut stole the M60 tank.
Not exactly a common occurrence. And even if LAPD had immediate access to a M2/M3 loaded for bear, it wouldn't really slow a -60 down much unless the gunner was really on his toes and new to aim for the tracks.
Of course, a nut really doesn't need a tank.(google "killdozer" sometime)

fscrig75
August 3rd, 2008, 12:19
Of course, a nut really doesn't need a tank.(google "killdozer" sometime)

Yea I saw that thing it was pretty funny. But I think a Bushmaster would've taken that out pretty quickly. Could you imagine a 25mm rock'n downtown USA, ha ha.

fscrig75
August 3rd, 2008, 12:20
I'm not saying I understand exactly what they do, but I just don't like the idea of agencies having to go do a job and not having the right equipment at their disposal. Like the guys in Somalia, when the worthless UN would send the APCs downtown.

JNickel101
August 3rd, 2008, 12:51
Sept 11 ?

Your posts aren't retarded, because your another brainwashed idiot. You sound like you have served before, I thank you for that, but you are Ignorant

Wow....um....anyone else want to take this? Because I might choke this guy out...

And I'm still serving.

You're suggesting that Sept 11th was an "inside job" - we attacked ourselves?

Please wise one, tell me what makes me a brainwashed idiot and ignorant - take me to school. I beg you.

I seem to remember another post of yours, in the "Cops Taze Teenager 19 Times" thread that simply said "cops suck". What are you, 16?

tbburg
August 3rd, 2008, 12:54
I'm not saying I understand exactly what they do, but I just don't like the idea of agencies having to go do a job and not having the right equipment at their disposal.....The equipment the ATF needs is an accurate data base, a clipboard, and a polite, respectful attitude. They need guns about as much as the agents over at the Department of Education(who also have the "right" to carry a gun as part of their official duties)

Ecomike
August 3rd, 2008, 14:25
The equipment the ATF needs is an accurate data base, a clipboard, and a polite, respectful attitude. They need guns about as much as the agents over at the Department of Education(who also have the "right" to carry a gun as part of their official duties)

Good point, but unfortunately "a polite, respectful attitude" does not seem to be compatable with all that testosterone, you know that "mine is bigger than yours" stuff that seems to be a prerequesite for the job!

Trail-Axe
August 3rd, 2008, 14:30
JNickel101wrote: And damn you Trail-Axe if you EVER suggest I am a liberal again...
Roger that. :D

Trail-Axe
August 3rd, 2008, 14:36
What are you, 16?

Come on Nickel, surely you can see this guy was trolling. Sixteen, try 14 at the most!

tbburg
August 3rd, 2008, 14:44
Good point, but unfortunately "a polite, respectful attitude" does not seem to be compatable with all that testosterone, you know that "mine is bigger than yours" stuff that seems to be a prerequesite for the job!

Naa,.... None of that seems to be any kind of prerequisite. After all "Kitten Stomper" was a female agent. All they seem to require is that successful applicants be complete and total A******s

JNickel101
August 3rd, 2008, 15:02
Come on Nickel, surely you can see this guy was trolling. Sixteen, try 14 at the most!

:D good point! :dunce:

JNickel101
August 3rd, 2008, 15:04
All they seem to require is that successful applicants be complete and total A******s

Well at least I can look forward to having a job waiting for me when I retire from this one...:shhh:



:gee:

Darky
August 3rd, 2008, 15:29
Yeah, I'm sure both Iran and North Korea are putting a lot of stock in a Non-Tech/Off Topic thread from a Cherokee forum. :rolleyes:
That was my first thought...Ahmadinejad is surfin NAXJA lookin to figure out what America's plans are so he can run and tell Kim Jong Il...

Boatwrench
August 3rd, 2008, 15:55
Isn't that what everyone says about the US?


Let's face it. Do we really want to be "Friends" with the current N. Korean govt?
Or Iran?
Or Nigeria?
Libya,...

The list goes on and on,..

Nigeria...YES! The US imports ~20% of the east coast's petroleum from Nigeria.

Boatwrench
August 3rd, 2008, 16:03
Also keep in mind that if it really came down to the gov't going nutzo on citizens, there would be massive sedition from the armed forces. We don't just serve the President, and they would be targeting our families as well.
We are suppose to "Protect and Defend The Constitution" and only have to obey the "Lawful orders" of the President. Many of my comrades seem to forget that piece. He's the President and he is not infallible.


The question then becomes, which candidate do you think is going to maximize the resources of the US towards a viable alternative energy plan?

Good Point! I don't know the answer.

Boatwrench
August 3rd, 2008, 16:09
The mere thought of the US government launching weapons against its population is as ludacris as any thought anyone could have. I thought of a million funny analogies here, but none compared to that.

and JeepXJ_YJ, you have made enough retarded posts....

After reading this my 1st thoughts were "4 dead in Ohio."

Darky
August 3rd, 2008, 16:14
The ATF deals with people who illegally sell guns without paying taxes on them correct? Sure many will be the people selling their gun cuz they need extra money or whatever, but I guarantee you that an arms dealer doesn't pay his taxes. Do you really want to go knock on the door of someone known to be selling guns illegally - meaning he a) has guns and b) doesn't pay much attention to legality - armed with nothing but " a clipboard, accurate database and a polite attitude"?

EDIT: It sounds like the whole Weaver incident was a screw up on more than one side. The sniper was out of order for the shot that killed Vicki, and he was even prosecuted, until the Feds took over, and threw it out. However, Randy didn'thelp things by selling those shotguns illegally, whether they were shortened by him or the agents. The dogs started barking at the agents who were there on a recon mission, they tried to retreat, boy and friend came out, armed, and saw the men and fired. Or the agents fired first, either way, I can see how the agents would see a threat as there's two males with guns running out in their direction. Maybe they should've identified themselves first, but even then would you stand up and say halt, I am FBI? Like I said, the sniper was wrong, flat out. But the rest is a bit murkier because it turns into he said/she said type thing. Some people will automatically say the gov't was wrong, while others will automatically say the FBI had just cause. I lean towards the just cause but not unconditionally. No one but the men who were knows what exactly happened and in what order.

scottmcneal
August 3rd, 2008, 16:40
I see your bad dream has come back ( Jeep XJ_YJ ) :twak: Start here

Ecomike
August 3rd, 2008, 17:32
After reading this my 1st thoughts were "4 dead in Ohio."

I wonder how many of us here even know what that means, other than you, me and a handful of us?

Too many here think this sort of stuff is impossible in this country. I wish it was. I call them nieve ( that stir up some posts, LOL). For one thing, its already happened here in the 60's. Few of the people in the current generation know how close we came to a full blown Iraq style civil war in 1968, probaly because we and the government don't like to talk about it, and don't want to think about.

tbburg
August 3rd, 2008, 19:20
I wonder how many of us here even know what that means, other than you, me and a handful of us?
Kent, panicked N.G., 2 rioters, 2 uninvolved non-combatants.
Too many here think this sort of stuff is impossible in this country. I wish it was. I call them nieve ( that stir up some posts, LOL). For one thing, its already happened here in the 60's. Few of the people in the current generation know how close we came to a full blown Iraq style civil war in 1968, probaly because we and the government don't like to talk about it, and don't want to think about.
Research "bonus marches". Already happened in th '30s

WrenchMonkey
August 3rd, 2008, 21:34
Kent, panicked N.G., 2 rioters, 2 uninvolved non-combatants.


Lesson learned: Don't throw rocks at guys with rifles.

Robert

tbburg
August 4th, 2008, 13:01
Lesson learned: Don't throw rocks at guys with rifles.Strange,... the lesson I got was "Don't stand next to people throwing rocks at people with guns.

JNickel101
August 4th, 2008, 13:29
Strange,... the lesson I got was "Don't stand next to people throwing rocks at people with guns.

Mine was "be born in 1979" :D

Ironmen77
August 4th, 2008, 14:15
Strange,... the lesson I got was "Don't stand next to people throwing rocks at people with guns.

The other lesson: Shoot a couple of rock chuckers and the rest will quit chucking rocks and run.

Deadman 94 xj
September 3rd, 2008, 10:16
Sure no politician is perfect but I can't believe anyone would support this guy
no substance and all lies:

Obama's "Not Exactly's": This person is more dangerous than any candidate in recent years....

1.) Selma Got Me Born - NOT EXACTLY, your parents felt safe
enough to have you in 1961 - Selma had no effect on your birth, as
Selma was in 1965. (Google'Obama Selma' for his full March 4,
2007 speech and articles about its various untruths.)

2.) Father Was A Goat Herder - NOT EXACTLY, he was a
privileged, well educated youth, who went on to work with the Kenyan
Government.

3.) Father Was A Proud Freedom Fighter - NOT EXACTLY, he
was part of one of the most corrupt and violent governments Kenya has
ever had.

4.) My Family Has Strong Ties To African Freedom - NOT
EXACTLY, your cousin Raila Odinga has created mass violence in attempting
to overturn a legitimate election in 2007, in Kenya. It is the first
widespread violence in decades. The current government is pro-American
but Odinga wants to overthrow it and establish Muslim Sharia law. Your
half-brother, Abongo Obama, is Odinga's follower. You interrupted your
New Hampshire campaigning to speak to Odinga on the phone. Check out
the following link for verification of that....and for more.

Obama's cousin Odinga in Kenya ran for president and
tried to get Sharia muslim law in place there. When Odinga lost the
elections, his followers have burned Christians' homes and then burned
men, women and children alive in a Christian church where they took
shelter.. Obama SUPPORTED his cousin before the election process here
started. Google Obama and Odinga and see what you get. No one wants to
know
the truth.

5.) My Grandmother Has Always Been A Christian - NOT
EXACTLY, she does her daily Salat prayers at 5am according to her own
interviews. Not to mention, Christianity wouldn't allow her to have been
one of 14 wives to 1 man.

6.) My Name is African Swahili - NOT EXACTLY, your name is
Arabic and 'Baraka' (from which Barack came) means
'blessed' in that language. Hussein is also Arabic and so is Obama.
Barack Hussein Obama is not half black. If elected, he
would be the first Arab-American President, not the first black
President. Barack Hussein Obama is 50% Caucasian from his mother's side
and 43.75% Arabic and 6.25% African Negro from his father's side. While
Barack Hussein Obama's father was from Kenya, his father's family
was mainly Arabs.. Barack Hussein Obama's father was only 12.5% African
Negro and 87.5% Arab (his father's birth certificate even states
he's Arab, not African Negro). From....and for more....go to.....
http://www.arcadeathome.com/newsboy.phtml?Barack_
Hussein_Obama_-_Arab-American,_only_6.25%25_African

7.) I Never Practiced Islam - NOT EXACTLY, you practiced it
daily at school, where you were registered as a Muslim and kept that
faith for 31 years, until your wife made you change, so you could run
for office. 4-3-08 Article "Obama was 'quite religious in
islam'"
http://www.wnd.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=60559

8.) My School In Indonesia Was Christian - NOT EXACTLY, you
were registered as Muslim there and got in trouble in Koranic
Studies for making faces (check your own book).
February 28, 2008. Kristoff from the New York Times a
year ago: Mr. Obama recalled the opening lines of the Arabic call to
prayer, reciting them with a first-rate accent. In a remark that seemed
delightfully uncalculated (it'll give Alabama voters heart attacks),
Mr. Obama described the call to prayer as "one of the prettiest
sounds on Earth at sunset." This is just one example of what Pamela
is talking about when she says "Obama's narrative is being altered,
enhanced and manipulated to whitewash troubling facts."

9.) I Was Fluent In Indonesian - NOT EXACTLY, not one
teacher says you could speak the language.

10.) Because I Lived In Indonesia, I Have More Foreign
Experience - NOT EXACTLY, you were there from the ages of 6 to 10, and
couldn't even speak the language. What did you learn, how to study the
Koran and watch cartoons.

11.) I Am Stronger On Foreign Affairs - NOT EXACTLY, except
for Africa (surprise) and the Middle East (bigger surprise), you have
never been anywhere else on the planet and thus have NO experience
with our closest allies.

12.) I Blame My Early Drug Use On Ethnic Confusion - NOT
EXACTLY, you were quite content in high school to be Barry Obama, no
mention of Kenya and no mention of struggle to identify - your
classmates said you were just fine.

13.)An Ebony Article Moved Me To Run For Office - NOT
EXACTLY, Ebony has yet to find the article you mention in your book. It
doesn't, and never did, exist.

14.) A Life Magazine Article Changed My Outlook On Life -
NOT EXACTLY, Life has yet to find the article you mention in your
book. It doesn't, and never did, exist.

15.) I Won't Run On A National Ticket In '08 - NOT
EXACTLY, here you are, despite saying, live on TV, that you would not
have enough experience by then, and you are all about having experience first.

16.) Voting "Present" is Common In Illinois
Senate - NOT EXACTLY, they are common for YOU, but not many others have
130 NO VOTES.

17.) Oops, I Misvoted - NOT EXACTLY, only when caught by
church groups and Democrats, did you beg to change your misvote.

18.) I Was A Professor Of Law - NOT EXACTLY, you were a
senior lecturer ON LEAVE.

19.) I Was A Constitutional Lawyer - NOT EXACTLY, you were
a senior lecturer ON LEAVE.

20.) Without Me, There Would Be No Ethics Bill - NOT
EXACTLY, you didn't write it, introduce it, change it, or create it.

21.) The Ethics Bill Was Hard To Pass - NOT EXACTLY, it
took just 14 days from start to finish.

22.) I Wrote A Tough Nuclear Bill - NOT EXACTLY, your bill
was rejected by your own party for its pandering and lack of all
regulation - mainly because of your Nuclear donor, Exelon, from which
David Axelrod came.

23.) I Have Released My State Records - NOT EXACTLY, as of
March, 2008, state bills you sponsored or voted for have yet to be
released, exposing all the special interests pork hidden within.

24.) I Took On The Asbestos Altgeld Gardens Mess - NOT
EXACTLY, you were part of a large group of people who remedied Altgeld
Gardens. You failed to mention anyone else but yourself, in your books.

25.) My Economics Bill Will Help America - NOT EXACTLY,
your 111 economic policies were just combined into a proposal which
lost 99-0, and even YOU voted against your own bill.

26.) I Have Been A Bold Leader In Illinois - NOT EXACTLY,
even your own supporters claim to have not seen BOLD action on your part.

27.) I Passed 26 Of My Own Bills In One Year - NOT EXACTLY,
they were not YOUR bills, but rather handed to you, after their
creation by a fellow Senator, to assist you in a future bid for higher
office.

28.) No One on my campaign contacted Canada about NAFTA -
NOT EXACTLY, the Canadian Government issued the names and a memo of the
conversation your campaign had with them.

29.) I Am Tough On Terrorism - NOT EXACTLY, you missed the
Iran Resolution vote on terrorism and your good friend Ali
Abunimah supports the destruction of Israel.

30.) I Want All Votes To Count - NOT EXACTLY, you said let
the delegates decide.

31.) I Want Americans To Decide - NOT EXACTLY, you prefer
caucuses that limit the vote, confuse the voters, force a public vote,
and only operate during small windows of time.

32.) I passed 900 Bills in the State Senate - NOT EXACTLY,
you passed 26, most of which you didn't write yourself.

33.) I Believe In Fairness, Not Tactics - NOT EXACTLY, you
used tactics to eliminate Alice Palmer from running against you.

34.) I Don't Take PAC Money - NOT EXACTLY, you take
loads of it.

35.) I don't Have Lobbyists - NOT EXACTLY, you have
over 47 lobbyists, and counting.

36.) My Campaign Had Nothing To Do With The 1984 Ad - NOT
EXACTLY, your own campaign worker made the ad on his Apple in one
afternoon.

37.) I Have Always Been Against Iraq - NOT EXACTLY, you
weren't in office to vote against it AND you have voted to fund it
every single time.

38.) I Have Always Supported Universal Health Care - NOT
EXACTLY, your plan leaves us all to pay for the 15,000,000 who don't
have to buy it

"Qui non intelligit aut discat aut taceat"
Who does not understand should either learn, or be silent.





(comment is too long by 1 characters)

Had to do it :rtm: