Buying a Handgun

[XJSpencer]

I'm going to buy a handgun soon.

It will be a 9mm or less. This is my first handgun. I won't be carrying it. If I decide to carry, I may need a different gun. I don't care. I want to get accustomed to a gun in my hand and smaller calibers have cheaper ammo.

It will be semi-auto. After playing with a bunch of guns,(in the store) I think I want a SA trigger. I don't fully understand but the trigger pulls feel better. I do kinda like having a hammer.

My hand are small and thick. The XD feels good but not the Glock

My favorites so far are the XD9 4" barrell and the Walther PPK. They didn't have a P99 which I wanted to check out.

Thoughts?..

I know most of you guys have a handgun. Post up.

[Dustin_Z]

the XD is a sweet piece, I prefer a .40, but I'm a bigger guy too. the 9 is nice on the basis that an avgerage person can get multiple rounds with more accuracy than the .40, or .45. Also the military issues Beretta M9s (9mm) to its officers and flight crews, certain other jobs as well.

[Brett M]

I like the P99.......course I'm using a Ruger P89DC. Still need to find a good price on the Walther.

[SCW]

It's a lot easier to help with a price range.

Why isn't a revolver a viable choice for you? I'd bet the majority of shooters started with a revolver, my first handgun was a Dan Wesson .357 when I was 17. Has a hammer, single-action or double action (I'd get a double-action to start with), easy to find a grip that fits like it was made for your hand, GREAT pointability (problem with the Glock imo).

Of the semiautos I'd look at the-

XD9- Great gun, not a single-action trigger but still very good and durable.

M&P- my favorite, magazines are becoming more available, new triggers are GREAT for a gun of this type and the ergonomics are the best of the plastic guns

Ruger- my least favorite. It's cheap, will last longer than your kids and look bad the whole time. Will probably always go bang, but they just don't do anything for me. I'm also a gun snob to some degree, so that that in stride.

Sig 228- I used to have a 229 in .40, good gun but the double/single trigger is a PITA. VERY well made guns.

Walther P99- I have no actual shooting experience with this one, but I hate shooting the PPK, the slide tears up the web of my hand, recoil is sharp for a mouse-gun and it's just not 'comfortable'


Kahr- my wife carries a Kahr K9 with the steel frame. They also make a much lighter version with a polymer frame, but it may be more prone to complications.

Springfield EMP/1911- The most expensive on this list, but a SWEEEEEEEET shooter. The 1911 platform was a revelation to J.M. Browning from on high and everyone will be asked for their view on the 1911 at the Pearly Gates. Because Mr. Browning was a Mormon, all Mormons should be required to own at least one for each wife. There are only a few 1911's in 9mm with Springfield having nearly the corner on the market, but several others are also out there. .45 acp is much more available and my wife finds my .45 easier to shoot than her 9mm Kahr, fwtw.

Glock- You really should consider the Block as least. I won't because I hate the feel of them, but for the most bang-for-your-buck, it's (begrudgingly) at the top of the list.

Any reason to stay at or below a 9mm? I definately understand the ammo price thing, but in many cases a .45 is VERY easy to shoot as well. From a shootability standpoint I'd stay away from the .40, it has more of a hard jab recoil rather than a slow push. 9mm is a pussycat in nearly any package, in a reveolver the 38special and 44 special are great calibers that are easy to shoot, where the .357/.44 magnum will usually also fit the same gun and give great longer range/hunting/defense performance. You can also get a rifle to match these pistol calibers, if that matters long term.

[skeptic_always]

Let me toss out a completely different idea. If all you want is something for plinking around and to get the feel of a handgun, have you considered a co2 powered airgun? You can get a replica that is very similar to the real thing, and very accurate. I know you have young kids like I do, and I decided to go the airgun route so I could plink with my boys. They are also very quiet so you can shoot while wheeling or camping without disturbing others or making the little ones cry from the loud bang. You can also shoot in your basement if it's unfinished or you're careful.

I know, it's not manly to shoot an airgun, but I get tons more use out of it than I would a powderburner plus I feel a little more secure teaching my boys gun safety with it.

[XJSpencer]

As my boys get older we have been getting more advanced "guns" to teach them. This is NOT for them. We already have the airsoft and BB pistols. We will probably get a more advanced CO2 gun soon.

Can someone please explain single action/double action to me? I thought I understood...

I have decided to go as expensive as the XD's. Five to six hundred bucks is max for a first handgun.

edit: Totally not interested in a Revolver. I'd love an EMP but way out of the price range.

[chopperdog]

I carry a Kel-Tec P3AT it is a 380 caliber of course. one of the smallest, perfect for carry concealed and plenty big enough to get the point across. however it is not grear for casual shooting. due to its small size and a normal mans hands it tends to jump around a bit. My wife actually can shoot it better than I. It als pretty cheap. I know Bass Pro shops has it for about $280. Got mine from a local shop for $250 new

[MisterFubar]

You really can't go wrong with any of the better tupperware pistols on the market.

Personally, I love my Glock 19c, but it did take a range trip or two for the grip angle to grow on me. Between the XD9 or the Walthers I would grab an XD, but I don't think either of the walthers would be a bad choice.

Have you looked at the Beretta 92's? I know a lot of people give them a bad wrap, but my M9 has always served me well and taken a hell of a beating. I haven't added one to my personal collection yet, but it's on the list.

Whatever you end up getting avoid cheap magazines and stick to factory stuff.

[SCW]

As my boys get older we have been getting more advanced "guns" to teach them. This is NOT for them. We already have the airsoft and BB pistols. We will probably get a more advanced CO2 gun soon.

Can someone please explain single action/double action to me? I thought I understood...

I have decided to go as expensive as the XD's. Five to six hundred bucks is max for a first handgun.

edit: Totally not interested in a Revolver. I'd love an EMP but way out of the price range.

The single/double action term is a little different in usage today than how it started. Originally revolvers were the old Clint Eastwood type where you had to c0ck the hammer for each shot. Then the 'double' actions came out where you could either c0ck the hammer- a single 'action'- or simply pull the trigger harder and it would c0ck and release the hammer. The single actions could ONLY be shot by cocking each time, the double action could be fired either way (double 'action' in one pistol).

Today we have a plethora of DAO, or Double Action Only pistols like the M&P, Block, XD and fifty zillion others. These only have one 'action', they cannot be fired by cocking a hammer first so technically they are a 'single' action with the only action being like the 'double' action from the revolvers. They typically have a much longer and heavier trigger pull compared to 'single' action triggers like the 1911, and often have no external saftey- if that matters. The 1911 cannot be fired without the hammer being cocked first, so it is also a true single action, but requires the use a saftey to make sure the hammer only falls when it needs to.

I hope I didn't cover too much, it'd take 5 minutes in person to show you the difference between my 1911 and my wifes Kahr.

Also, if this is for plinking and getting familiar with handguns, try to get the best trigger and slightly larger gun you can find. They will typically shoot better and be more comfortable. Triggers on handguns make all the difference, it's pretty hard to shoot well with a stiff trigger.

[ECKSJAY]

Springfield EMP/1911- The most expensive on this list, but a SWEEEEEEEET shooter. The 1911 platform was a revelation to J.M. Browning from on high and everyone will be asked for their view on the 1911 at the Pearly Gates.

THIS

A 1911 doesn't have to be a custom shop model to be considered. I know a few guys with these Shooters Arms models (Philippine made, IIRC) and they work just fine. Get a Wolff replacement spring kit, polish some edges with the Dremel, and get some good mags. Great for the money.

http://www.jgsales.com/product_info.php/handguns/shooters-arms-1911/p/shooters-arms-1911-military-45acp-new/cPath/16_323/products_id/1745

[xjblue]

A walther P99 is on my wish list, interesting features on those, and who doesnt' want to be like Bond :cool: . Last Saturday I put a few through an XD .45 for the first time and really liked it.

[DrMoab]

Hey Spencer, explain why you wouldn't be interested in a revolver.

Not picking on you...just curious as to why.

[XJSpencer]

I'm going to buy one handgun right now. I don't want it to be a revolver. I want it to be something that could be carried IF I wanted to. As I look into adding to or expanding my collection, a revolver wouldn't be out of the question. I'm not sure that makes sense.


The action explanation makes sense until you hit the semi-auto part. If there is a round in the chamber of a 1911, you can't fire if the hammer is down right? With an XD, you can't really have a round in the chamber without it being ready to fire, correct?(reason for extra safeties) Some of the semi-auto's have a much longer trigger pull like a double action revolver but without an external hammer? The recoil "cocks" the gun right? How would the two operate differently in real life?...It's time to go to the range...

[SCW]

I'm going to buy one handgun right now. I don't want it to be a revolver. I want it to be something that could be carried IF I wanted to. As I look into adding to or expanding my collection, a revolver wouldn't be out of the question. I'm not sure that makes sense.

I'd carry a revolver any day of the week. They make FANTASTIC carry guns- especially for new shooters. They are so much simpler that problems are fewer and the fix is easier. If it doesn't go bang, just pull the trigger again. My wife wants to replace her 9mm with a .38 special revolver, for what that's worth.

The action explanation makes sense until you hit the semi-auto part. If there is a round in the chamber of a 1911, you can't fire if the hammer is down right? With an XD, you can't really have a round in the chamber without it being ready to fire, correct?(reason for extra safeties)

Correct on both points. 1911 has to be cocked by hand the first time, after that the movement of the slide will c0ck it for each shot after that.

Some of the semi-auto's have a much longer trigger pull like a double action revolver but without an external hammer? The recoil "cocks" the gun right? How would the two operate differently in real life?...It's time to go to the range...

It's a pretty invisible difference to the user. The 1911 has an external hammer that is cocked after each shot when the slide comes back. The movement of the slide also ejects the old case and strips a new cartrige from the magazine for the chamber.

The Glock/XD/M&P/P99/92...... all use the trigger to 'c0ck' the gun in various ways. They still load the next round, but the trigger actually pushes the invisible 'hammer' back and lets it fall in one motion. Without the hammer ever back the pistol doesn't use an external saftey, it can't phyisically fire without the trigger being pulled.

[ECKSJAY]

1911 with hammer down and chambered isn't safe to carry because the hammer rests right at the firing pin. Drop it on the hammer with a live round in and you're looking for it to go off. If you have to draw and move the hammer back anyway, you could be done for already. Time counts. 1911 with hammer back and safety engaged is one of the safest handguns to carry. JMB knew what he was doing.

That said, I wouldn't recommend a 1911 for a new shooter as it's more of a Jedi weapon. :yelclap: Get a Glock or XD, something striker fired with no external safety. Learn on that and go from there. They can always be traded or sold...or collections added to. ;)

[5-90]

Single Action/Double Action apply to both revolvers and autos, but there is a difference between the two.

Single Action (SA) - The hammer must be pulled back in order to fire. Pulling the trigger on a dropped hammer don't do nothin'. However, when an auto cycles, the hammer will be pushed back by the slide, so you don't have to pull it back again.

Double Action (DA) - The trigger linkage can pull the hammer back. On a revolver, this means that every shot will have a "long" trigger - but you can still pull the hammer back first and fire in "Single Action" if you like (usually for accuracy - the break is cleaner on SA than it is on DA.) For a Double Action auto (Beretta M9/M92 being a good example of this,) the first shot with the hammer down is double-action. The slide cycling will push the hammer back again, and follow-up shots are single-action. The hammer can also be pulled down for a single-action first shot.

Double Action Only (DAO) - This usually refers to a "hammerless" revolver or auto - the Glock series is an example of a "Double Action Only" auto. There being no hammer, there can't be any shots with the hammer pulled back - so the trigger stroke is used first to pull the firing pin ("striker" in this case) back and the "break" is releasing it with a scear. There is no "Single Action option" on a DAO pistol, like there is on a conventional Double Action.

Short form - a "Single Action" is single action only, a "Double Action" may be fired in either SA or DA mode, and a "Double Action Only" is just that - only double action.

I've not fired the XD. I do not like the Beretta. I've fired the Glocks - I think they're well-designed pistols, but they don't fit my hands well (personal preference and naught to do with the design of the pistol. Herr Glock did a very good job designing the thing!) I'm perfectly willing to pick up anything in a pinch and shoot it - but I do have preferences.

One thing I like very much about the 1911/1991 platform is the ready availability of parts (replacement or tuning,) and the fact that you can get a kit that lets you swap between .22LR and .45ACP with just a field-strip (Jonathan Arthur Ceiner comes to mind first for that kit. You don't need an FFL to get one, so you can have it shipped right to your door.)

The 1991 series is the 1911 with an extra safety - a plunger that blocks the firing pin. This plunger is actuated by a small lever when the trigger is pulled - if the trigger isn't pulled, the firing pin is blocked from travelling far enough forward to impact the primer. One refinement in eighty years - not bad.

[XJSpencer]

Ended up getting a Mark III Comp. Target model.

I put 200 rounds through it today for the first time. It's a really nice gun. I was getting really tight groups considering that I've never fired a handgun and haven't had any instruction. I have shot a lot of rifles and shotguns though. Nothing in the last ten years or so...

Thanks all for your input/advice. I'll get something bigger later.

[Israel]

You'll shoot your eye out. :D

[SCW]

That's a nice gun. I have an older model with the 4" pencil barrel. Have fun with it!

[Mudderoy]

Beretta 92FS - Full sized 9mm gun. 15+1. Large grip. Easy to shoot, sweet gun.

Glock 27 - Sub compact 40 cal. 9+1 (or 10+1 with cheap addon) Easy to shoot, but it twists and a good snap when shooting. But it shoots right where you point it and no jams (so far).

Taurus Milliumin Pro (PT-140) Sub compact 40 cal. 10+1. Easy to shoot, much like the Glock 27, just a little heaver.

The beretta is by far the easiest to shoot, even rapid fire.

My next gun will be the Glock 22. Same ammo as the Glock 27 plus I can use the 22 clips in the 27 if I need to, and my Fobus holster for the 27 will work for the 22. The Glock 22 is a full sized 40 cal pistol. The G27, G22 are $499.99 from Academy here in Houston.

It really depends on what you want the handgun for. If you want it for home defense, get a shotgun. If you want it to shoot paper, etc... 9mm is a good cheaper caliber. If you want the gun to stop someone and not just wound them, 40 cal, 45 cal, 10mm, etc...