Nice Comanche race truck build [Archive] - NAXJA Forums -::- North American XJ Association

Goatman

July 17th, 2008, 00:33

I'm starting a new thread for this one guys, so have at it. :D

I personally like this one.

http://i120.photobucket.com/albums/o182/TNTACR/IMG_1889.jpg

http://i120.photobucket.com/albums/o182/TNTACR/desert%20MJ/IMG_0801.jpg

http://i120.photobucket.com/albums/o182/TNTACR/desert%20MJ/IMG_0933.jpg

http://i120.photobucket.com/albums/o182/TNTACR/desert%20MJ/IMG_0934.jpg

http://i120.photobucket.com/albums/o182/TNTACR/desert%20MJ/IMG_1079.jpg

http://i120.photobucket.com/albums/o182/TNTACR/desert%20MJ/IMG_0932.jpg

http://i120.photobucket.com/albums/o182/TNTACR/desert%20MJ/IMG_1338.jpg

http://i120.photobucket.com/albums/o182/TNTACR/desert%20MJ/IMG_1469.jpg

Goatman

July 17th, 2008, 00:36

that thing is still for sale over on race-dezert isnt it?

[borat] isa verrr niiiiiice[/boat]

:D

Goatman

July 17th, 2008, 00:37

heck yeah!!

CanMan

July 17th, 2008, 01:20

That truck is a thing of beauty.

Dirk Pitt

July 17th, 2008, 05:14

This belongs in the OT or picture forum.

Unless the guy is going to come over here and talk about it.

JeepFreak21

July 17th, 2008, 09:07

This belongs in the OT or picture forum.

Unless the guy is going to come over here and talk about it.

It doesn't have to be the owner/builder talking about it. We can have a tech discussion without the owner/builder.

So... anybody got any specs? How thick is most of that frame? What material are the control arms?

Billy

FordGuy

July 17th, 2008, 09:17

Does anyone know who's shop it is in. It almost looks like T&J's shop in Anaheim?

Goatman

July 17th, 2008, 13:15

That is some SERIOUS axle droop!!

I love Comanches, and would love to have a bad ass rig like that. All I need is the money and time to build it and the money and time to use it. Oh well.

FordGuy

July 17th, 2008, 14:13

Even if I had the talent, when do you find the time!

tcm glx

July 17th, 2008, 18:29

Come on Rich, you can skip sleep a night or two to take that thing out bombing down some serious whoops....

TNT

July 18th, 2008, 09:05

I have a ton of pictures of this MJ build. I can post more if you want.

tcm glx

July 18th, 2008, 09:06

Hell yeah!! More pics, so I can drool.

Gravesdiggerxj

July 18th, 2008, 09:31

FordGuy

July 18th, 2008, 09:39

chrisman full float rear end?

I dig the "canoe" style rear links. Here's tech (most of you already know): most guys built those because it allows you to mount the shock on the lower control arms below link centerline so the link doesn't "roll over".

I noticed too the lowers aren't triangulated much but the uppers are: a lot of dez guys do that... I know they are into droop aren't articulating the rear, but wouldn't that give you a lot of rear steer during articulation for us "dual use" guys?

I have driven several similar trucks on the street, fun to drive with a spool and 600 HP, but It would get real old as a daily driver. In the dirt you don't even notice it, maybe because your smiling the whole time.

TNT

July 18th, 2008, 10:15

http://i120.photobucket.com/albums/o182/TNTACR/desert%20MJ/IMG_0594.jpg

http://i120.photobucket.com/albums/o182/TNTACR/desert%20MJ/IMG_0595.jpg

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http://i120.photobucket.com/albums/o182/TNTACR/desert%20MJ/IMG_0603.jpg

TNT

July 18th, 2008, 10:25

http://i120.photobucket.com/albums/o182/TNTACR/desert%20MJ/IMG_0604.jpg

http://i120.photobucket.com/albums/o182/TNTACR/desert%20MJ/IMG_0605.jpg

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http://i120.photobucket.com/albums/o182/TNTACR/desert%20MJ/IMG_0644.jpg

FordGuy

July 18th, 2008, 10:25

Whats the opinion on how well the stock frame is going to hold up around the link arm cross member?

TNT

July 18th, 2008, 10:30

http://i120.photobucket.com/albums/o182/TNTACR/desert%20MJ/IMG_0645.jpg

http://i120.photobucket.com/albums/o182/TNTACR/desert%20MJ/IMG_0647.jpg

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http://i120.photobucket.com/albums/o182/TNTACR/desert%20MJ/IMG_0701.jpg

ehall

July 18th, 2008, 10:33

so when will you be done with my truck

:dunce:

TNT

July 18th, 2008, 11:34

http://i120.photobucket.com/albums/o182/TNTACR/desert%20MJ/IMG_0702.jpg

http://i120.photobucket.com/albums/o182/TNTACR/desert%20MJ/IMG_0703.jpg

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http://i120.photobucket.com/albums/o182/TNTACR/desert%20MJ/IMG_0782.jpg

TNT

July 18th, 2008, 12:48

http://i120.photobucket.com/albums/o182/TNTACR/desert%20MJ/IMG_0783.jpg

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http://i120.photobucket.com/albums/o182/TNTACR/desert%20MJ/IMG_0791.jpg

Smittty9785

July 18th, 2008, 13:00

that thing is bad A$$

TNT

July 18th, 2008, 13:08

http://i120.photobucket.com/albums/o182/TNTACR/desert%20MJ/IMG_0793.jpg

http://i120.photobucket.com/albums/o182/TNTACR/desert%20MJ/IMG_0794.jpg

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http://i120.photobucket.com/albums/o182/TNTACR/desert%20MJ/IMG_0803.jpg

ehall

July 18th, 2008, 13:51

http://i120.photobucket.com/albums/o182/TNTACR/desert%20MJ/IMG_0704.jpg
You'll never get the window back in now!

Goatman

July 18th, 2008, 14:10

I noticed too the lowers aren't triangulated much but the uppers are: a lot of dez guys do that... I know they are into droop aren't articulating the rear, but wouldn't that give you a lot of rear steer during articulation for us "dual use" guys?

Not necessarily. Roll steer is dependant on arm length and roll angle axis. Roll angle axis is helped with less angle on the arms. Those arms are fairly level and very long so it shouldn't be an issue.

TNT

July 18th, 2008, 15:18

http://i120.photobucket.com/albums/o182/TNTACR/desert%20MJ/IMG_0804.jpg

http://i120.photobucket.com/albums/o182/TNTACR/desert%20MJ/IMG_0933-1.jpg

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TNT

July 18th, 2008, 15:39

http://i120.photobucket.com/albums/o182/TNTACR/desert%20MJ/IMG_1074.jpg

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TNT

July 18th, 2008, 15:54

http://i120.photobucket.com/albums/o182/TNTACR/desert%20MJ/IMG_1083.jpg

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FordGuy

July 18th, 2008, 17:05

I really dig the attention to the tru-holes on all of the bracing work, Taking the time for that detail is excellent, Even when it is not necessary to be done or there is a equally strong, easier way to do it, Just shows the time and skill/pride in that build. Keep the pics coming.

TNT

July 18th, 2008, 17:11

http://i120.photobucket.com/albums/o182/TNTACR/desert%20MJ/IMG_1091-1.jpg

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TNT

July 18th, 2008, 17:15

http://i120.photobucket.com/albums/o182/TNTACR/desert%20MJ/IMG_1332.jpg

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TNT

July 18th, 2008, 17:20

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TNT

July 18th, 2008, 17:25

http://i120.photobucket.com/albums/o182/TNTACR/desert%20MJ/IMG_1469-1.jpg

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http://i120.photobucket.com/albums/o182/TNTACR/desert%20MJ/IMG_1798.jpg

XJ_ranger

July 18th, 2008, 17:37

TNT

July 18th, 2008, 17:46

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FordGuy

July 18th, 2008, 17:51

Ok, I know where the time came from to build this, Someone has been building it for 3 years.

TNT

July 18th, 2008, 17:52

http://i120.photobucket.com/albums/o182/TNTACR/desert%20MJ/IMG_1854.jpg

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TNT

July 18th, 2008, 17:57

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TNT

July 18th, 2008, 18:01

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TNT

July 18th, 2008, 18:02

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TNT

July 18th, 2008, 18:08

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TNT

July 18th, 2008, 18:36

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TNT

July 18th, 2008, 18:40

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http://i120.photobucket.com/albums/o182/TNTACR/desert%20MJ/IMG_2149.jpg

http://i120.photobucket.com/albums/o182/TNTACR/desert%20MJ/IMG_2150.jpg

http://i120.photobucket.com/albums/o182/TNTACR/desert%20MJ/IMG_2354.jpg

http://i120.photobucket.com/albums/o182/TNTACR/desert%20MJ/IMG_2355.jpg

http://i120.photobucket.com/albums/o182/TNTACR/desert%20MJ/IMG_2356.jpg

http://i120.photobucket.com/albums/o182/TNTACR/desert%20MJ/IMG_2357.jpg

TNT

July 18th, 2008, 18:48

http://i120.photobucket.com/albums/o182/TNTACR/desert%20MJ/IMG_2358.jpg

http://i120.photobucket.com/albums/o182/TNTACR/desert%20MJ/IMG_2366.jpg

http://i120.photobucket.com/albums/o182/TNTACR/desert%20MJ/IMG_2365.jpg

http://i120.photobucket.com/albums/o182/TNTACR/desert%20MJ/IMG_2363.jpg

http://i120.photobucket.com/albums/o182/TNTACR/desert%20MJ/IMG_2362.jpg

http://i120.photobucket.com/albums/o182/TNTACR/desert%20MJ/IMG_2361.jpg

http://i120.photobucket.com/albums/o182/TNTACR/desert%20MJ/IMG_2360.jpg

http://i120.photobucket.com/albums/o182/TNTACR/desert%20MJ/IMG_2359.jpg

TNT

July 18th, 2008, 18:51

http://i120.photobucket.com/albums/o182/TNTACR/desert%20MJ/IMG_2376.jpg

http://i120.photobucket.com/albums/o182/TNTACR/desert%20MJ/IMG_2375.jpg

http://i120.photobucket.com/albums/o182/TNTACR/desert%20MJ/IMG_2374.jpg

http://i120.photobucket.com/albums/o182/TNTACR/desert%20MJ/IMG_2373.jpg

http://i120.photobucket.com/albums/o182/TNTACR/desert%20MJ/IMG_2369.jpg

http://i120.photobucket.com/albums/o182/TNTACR/desert%20MJ/IMG_2368.jpg

http://i120.photobucket.com/albums/o182/TNTACR/desert%20MJ/IMG_2367.jpg

http://i120.photobucket.com/albums/o182/TNTACR/desert%20MJ/IMG_2377.jpg

TNT

July 18th, 2008, 18:55

http://i120.photobucket.com/albums/o182/TNTACR/desert%20MJ/IMG_2378.jpg

http://i120.photobucket.com/albums/o182/TNTACR/desert%20MJ/IMG_2379.jpg

http://i120.photobucket.com/albums/o182/TNTACR/desert%20MJ/IMG_2380.jpg

http://i120.photobucket.com/albums/o182/TNTACR/desert%20MJ/IMG_2381.jpg

http://i120.photobucket.com/albums/o182/TNTACR/desert%20MJ/IMG_2382.jpg

http://i120.photobucket.com/albums/o182/TNTACR/desert%20MJ/IMG_2383.jpg

http://i120.photobucket.com/albums/o182/TNTACR/desert%20MJ/IMG_2390.jpg

http://i120.photobucket.com/albums/o182/TNTACR/desert%20MJ/IMG_2389.jpg

TNT

July 18th, 2008, 18:58

http://i120.photobucket.com/albums/o182/TNTACR/desert%20MJ/IMG_2388.jpg

http://i120.photobucket.com/albums/o182/TNTACR/desert%20MJ/IMG_2387.jpg

http://i120.photobucket.com/albums/o182/TNTACR/desert%20MJ/IMG_2386.jpg

http://i120.photobucket.com/albums/o182/TNTACR/desert%20MJ/IMG_2385.jpg

http://i120.photobucket.com/albums/o182/TNTACR/desert%20MJ/IMG_2384.jpg

http://i120.photobucket.com/albums/o182/TNTACR/desert%20MJ/IMG_2391.jpg

http://i120.photobucket.com/albums/o182/TNTACR/desert%20MJ/IMG_2393.jpg

http://i120.photobucket.com/albums/o182/TNTACR/desert%20MJ/IMG_2394.jpg

TNT

July 18th, 2008, 19:00

http://i120.photobucket.com/albums/o182/TNTACR/desert%20MJ/IMG_2395.jpg

http://i120.photobucket.com/albums/o182/TNTACR/desert%20MJ/IMG_2396.jpg

http://i120.photobucket.com/albums/o182/TNTACR/desert%20MJ/IMG_2422.jpg

http://i120.photobucket.com/albums/o182/TNTACR/desert%20MJ/IMG_2423.jpg

http://i120.photobucket.com/albums/o182/TNTACR/desert%20MJ/IMG_2431.jpg

http://i120.photobucket.com/albums/o182/TNTACR/desert%20MJ/IMG_2429.jpg

http://i120.photobucket.com/albums/o182/TNTACR/desert%20MJ/IMG_2428.jpg

http://i120.photobucket.com/albums/o182/TNTACR/desert%20MJ/IMG_2426.jpg

TNT

July 18th, 2008, 19:06

http://i120.photobucket.com/albums/o182/TNTACR/desert%20MJ/IMG_2425.jpg

http://i120.photobucket.com/albums/o182/TNTACR/desert%20MJ/IMG_2424.jpg

http://i120.photobucket.com/albums/o182/TNTACR/desert%20MJ/IMG_2432.jpg

http://i120.photobucket.com/albums/o182/TNTACR/desert%20MJ/IMG_2433.jpg

http://i120.photobucket.com/albums/o182/TNTACR/desert%20MJ/IMG_2434.jpg

http://i120.photobucket.com/albums/o182/TNTACR/desert%20MJ/IMG_2435.jpg

http://i120.photobucket.com/albums/o182/TNTACR/desert%20MJ/IMG_2436.jpg

http://i120.photobucket.com/albums/o182/TNTACR/desert%20MJ/IMG_2437.jpg

TNT

July 18th, 2008, 19:08

http://i120.photobucket.com/albums/o182/TNTACR/desert%20MJ/IMG_2438.jpg

http://i120.photobucket.com/albums/o182/TNTACR/desert%20MJ/IMG_2439.jpg

http://i120.photobucket.com/albums/o182/TNTACR/desert%20MJ/IMG_2875.jpg

http://i120.photobucket.com/albums/o182/TNTACR/desert%20MJ/IMG_2876.jpg

http://i120.photobucket.com/albums/o182/TNTACR/desert%20MJ/IMG_2877.jpg

http://i120.photobucket.com/albums/o182/TNTACR/desert%20MJ/IMG_2878.jpg

http://i120.photobucket.com/albums/o182/TNTACR/desert%20MJ/IMG_2879.jpg

http://i120.photobucket.com/albums/o182/TNTACR/desert%20MJ/IMG_2880.jpg

TNT

July 18th, 2008, 19:12

http://i120.photobucket.com/albums/o182/TNTACR/desert%20MJ/IMG_2881.jpg

http://i120.photobucket.com/albums/o182/TNTACR/desert%20MJ/IMG_2882.jpg

http://i120.photobucket.com/albums/o182/TNTACR/desert%20MJ/IMG_2883.jpg

http://i120.photobucket.com/albums/o182/TNTACR/desert%20MJ/IMG_2884.jpg

http://i120.photobucket.com/albums/o182/TNTACR/desert%20MJ/IMG_2885.jpg

http://i120.photobucket.com/albums/o182/TNTACR/desert%20MJ/IMG_2886.jpg

http://i120.photobucket.com/albums/o182/TNTACR/desert%20MJ/IMG_2887.jpg

http://i120.photobucket.com/albums/o182/TNTACR/desert%20MJ/IMG_2888.jpg

TNT

July 18th, 2008, 19:17

http://i120.photobucket.com/albums/o182/TNTACR/desert%20MJ/IMG_2889.jpg

http://i120.photobucket.com/albums/o182/TNTACR/desert%20MJ/IMG_2890.jpg

http://i120.photobucket.com/albums/o182/TNTACR/desert%20MJ/IMG_2891.jpg

http://i120.photobucket.com/albums/o182/TNTACR/desert%20MJ/IMG_2892.jpg

http://i120.photobucket.com/albums/o182/TNTACR/desert%20MJ/CRW_3440_RJ.jpg

http://i120.photobucket.com/albums/o182/TNTACR/desert%20MJ/CRW_3439_RJ.jpg

http://i120.photobucket.com/albums/o182/TNTACR/desert%20MJ/CRW_3438_RJ.jpg

http://i120.photobucket.com/albums/o182/TNTACR/desert%20MJ/CRW_3437_RJ.jpg

http://i120.photobucket.com/albums/o182/TNTACR/desert%20MJ/CRW_3436_RJ.jpg

TNT

July 18th, 2008, 19:21

Hell yeah!! More pics, so I can drool.

There you go. I posted them all. :shocked:

TNT

July 18th, 2008, 19:33

for the small price of 30,000 you can own it...

gonna buy it TJP?

http://jeepspeed.net/smf/index.php?topic=1951.0

http://www.mralien.com/images/IMG_1889.JPG

front hood kills it for me -
http://www.mralien.com/images/IMG_2396.jpg

I would have to split ways with the wife and sell my town house....

Tempting, Very tempting.

It would definately get the proper skins for sure.

TNT

July 18th, 2008, 19:42

I'm starting a new thread for this one guys, so have at it. :D

You said we could have at it. :)

Now that I posted the all the build pictures I have lets talk some tech. I'm sure everybody can probably learn something just from the pictures. They speak Advanced Fabrication just by looking at them.

So let the discussion begin.

xj92

July 18th, 2008, 20:42

Awesome attention to detail. How much does it weigh? It looks heavy. How does it compare to professional desert race trucks weight wise?

TNT

July 18th, 2008, 20:55

Awesome attention to detail. How much does it weigh? It looks heavy. How does it compare to professional desert race trucks weight wise?

Since it is built with 4130 chromoly tubing the tubing can be thinner then DOM.

As for comparing weight wise I'm sure it's on par with the other trucks in its classes.

Weight is different when your truck must withstand 1000's of miles of all out abuse. Strength and durability are more important. The suspension can be set-up to deal with whatever the weight is. It's probably lighter then alot of trail rigs out there.

Trophy trucks can weigh 6500 pounds and are down right wicked.

Goatman

July 18th, 2008, 21:13

Very interesting steering design. I wondered about it when I saw it mounted under the front axle tube, but then I see they moved it to the top of the tube. Very ingenius way to allow for a ton of front axle travel without having steering issues. Of course, maybe this design is more common on desert trucks and I just haven't seen it before.

Any info on the motor?

TNT

July 18th, 2008, 22:16

I thought the steering was well built and outside "the box" design wise.

The more you look at the pictures the more details you see...

The only info I found was at JeepSpeed for sale link (http://jeepspeed.net/smf/index.php?topic=1951.0)

Here's what the ad says about the build.

This is a completely custom built SCORE 7 Open race truck, stripped down to the two frame rails and built using only the best parts. 90% Complete Race Truck. All brand new parts: Custom TubeWorks front and rear axels, All 4130 chromally chassis. Autometer gauges, Ron Davis radiator, CNC master cylinders, McKenzie’s limit straps, PRP seats, Art Car shifter, Howe steering box with ram assist, -24 steel braided hose and fittings for radiator, Momo steering wheel, 2 ½ King bump stops in all four corners, Rear Shocks: 3”x 18” quad-bypass shocks with 2 ½” coil over, triple rate. Front Shocks: King 3” coil over with 4” King Kong reservoirs, 64 gallon custom fuel cell with duel fill, 6 OMF bead locks and tires. All exceptional work around the entire truck. Selling with the engine and trans, but will also consider selling as a rolling chasis.

This truck should still qualify for the 3700 class.

ehall

July 18th, 2008, 22:48

Thanks for posting all those pics

TNT

July 18th, 2008, 23:03

It sure took a while to do. I figure most of you are copying them to your computer. Thats why I posted them. It's quick and easy to save picture as ______?

So now some good discussions about the tech done in the build would be great. He must have a ton of time involved...

xcm

July 19th, 2008, 05:36

its good to see a 2wd mj buildup, im starting my stage 2 build up.. SLOWLY.
However the rear frame rails look honkey as sh1t, and out of place on a modern 2wd dezert race truck...
is there any reason to have huge frame rails all that way back when the 4 link rear mounts are around the b-pillar, with the shocks right behind that... Would it be preferable to go full tube from pretty much the b-pillar back, with the frame rails curving in and back, similar to these pics, ending at the shocks mounts?

these are my inspiration, forget jeepspeed.....

http://img56.imageshack.us/img56/1091/hhtt015nl8.jpg
http://img205.imageshack.us/img205/1504/hhtt016bo2.jpg

http://img230.imageshack.us/img230/9692/rear16tt5.jpg

http://img364.imageshack.us/img364/3447/newpics018pn3.jpg

I am not an engineer...but TT are very nice and i want sum dat.

xcm

July 19th, 2008, 05:43

TNT

July 19th, 2008, 07:46

its good to see a 2wd mj buildup, im starting my stage 2 build up.. SLOWLY.
However the rear frame rails look honkey as sh1t, and out of place on a modern 2wd dezert race truck...
is there any reason to have huge frame rails all that way back when the 4 link rear mounts are around the b-pillar, with the shocks right behind that... Would it be preferable to go full tube from pretty much the b-pillar back, with the frame rails curving in and back, similar to these pics, ending at the shocks mounts?

I am not an engineer...but TT are very nice and i want sum dat.

That is built as a clase 7 Score truck or a 3700 JeepSpeed truck. They are not allowed to replace the main farame just reinforce it.

TNT

July 19th, 2008, 08:30

AND another topic: IFS: IS IT possible! This isnt a bolt on thread, and neither are my questions. so moving the engine back , and stretching WB might be worth the effort IF you could stuff some offset A-arms in there.... what do the experts think?

Anything is possible. Do your research and design it yourself. There isnt any bolt-ons.

http://i120.photobucket.com/albums/o182/TNTACR/Salep18977n2.jpg

http://i120.photobucket.com/albums/o182/TNTACR/Salep18977n1.jpg

FordGuy

July 19th, 2008, 08:40

Jes

July 19th, 2008, 09:10

http://img230.imageshack.us/img230/9692/rear16tt5.jpg

That is my buddy Curtis' T100...
http://www.fototime.com/546F9565E3D8F5F/standard.jpg
Definately a cool rig and rides super smooth in the rough stuff...
http://www.fototime.com/CCBC7476EE7E21A/standard.jpg
http://www.fototime.com/906974E60DB60E0/standard.jpg
http://www.fototime.com/2BD6A6C8BDA33B5/standard.jpg
http://www.fototime.com/0D62CDEDBEB57D8/standard.jpg
Latest incarnation...
http://www.fototime.com/2E9D98B7763D9FA/standard.jpg

FordGuy

July 19th, 2008, 09:13

Very nice!!!

Goatman

July 19th, 2008, 09:32

It's nice to see a well built rig that still has the relatively heavy 6 cyl motor still so far forward in the stock location. Our XJ buggies have the same issue, yet have very light weight in the rear, making them harder to tune the suspension. I should start another thread just about that, tuning a heavy front/light rear setup. Of course, this truck, and I assume most other trucks in this class, have much more weight in the rear than we do since they have much bigger fuel cells and spare tires.

Damn, why can't I win the lotto and have a truck for everything.

Goatman

July 19th, 2008, 09:34

Hey Jes, why does that T100 have such a big ice chest??

:cheers:

TNT

July 19th, 2008, 09:44

http://i120.photobucket.com/albums/o182/TNTACR/camburg_60.jpg

http://i120.photobucket.com/albums/o182/TNTACR/HHTT004.jpg

http://i120.photobucket.com/albums/o182/TNTACR/camburg_54.jpg

http://i120.photobucket.com/albums/o182/TNTACR/MOD1.jpg

http://i120.photobucket.com/albums/o182/TNTACR/MOD6.jpg

http://i120.photobucket.com/albums/o182/TNTACR/lower1.jpg

TNT

July 19th, 2008, 09:50

is there any reason to have huge frame rails all that way back when the 4 link rear mounts are around the b-pillar, with the shocks right behind that... Would it be preferable to go full tube from pretty much the b-pillar back, with the frame rails curving in and back, similar to these pics, ending at the shocks mounts?

The weight from two project tires, a jack, spare axle, drive-shaft, and add a 40 plus gal fuel cell hanging off of the back is a ridiculous amount of weight, not to mention what happens when you get bumped by an ass like Robby Gordon.

Weight distrbution. They need to fly right. :roll:

Jes

July 19th, 2008, 12:18

Hey Jes, why does that T100 have such a big ice chest??

:cheers:

:D

JeepFreak21

July 19th, 2008, 12:47

http://i120.photobucket.com/albums/o182/TNTACR/desert%20MJ/IMG_2031.jpg
Dayum... now that is quality! http://www.slicky.net/smilies/cool.gif

xcm

July 19th, 2008, 13:05

Goatman

July 19th, 2008, 13:24

FordGuy

July 19th, 2008, 13:40

Ok, tech. How do you like the upper spindles using a heim?

Goatman

July 19th, 2008, 18:53

Ok, tech. How do you like the upper spindles using a heim?

I'd like it better if it was a uniball. I have no idea what experience racers have had using a rod end in that configuration. I can say that a 1.25" chromo rod end has a monster load capacity, but that load seems to be against the shaft/threads of the joint. I don't know what the load is.

We can't see a pic, what does it use on the bottom?

FordGuy

July 19th, 2008, 20:18

I am not sure on the bottom, but I agree, just based on what most use, the shear of the heim vs. the Uni-Ball has to be a lot less strong. Uni's just don't break.

TNT

July 19th, 2008, 22:22

pics are fine, but lets get back to tech! anyone who hasnt read the tech section over at pirate, but is interested in upper shelf shock tuning should really read billa vistas coilover bibles...
http://www.pirate4x4.com/tech/billavista/coilovers/Part_1/ part 1 and 2, very in depth...
http://www.pirate4x4.com/tech/billavista/coilovers/Part_2/

hes also got a fuel cell tech which is quite broad http://www.pirate4x4.com/tech/billavista/Fuel_Cell/
as well as a nice page about notching tube for cages/links
http://www.pirate4x4.com/tech/billavista/Links/
and a driver restraint article...
http://www.pirate4x4.com/tech/billavista/Harnesses/
all are GREAT, and in depth technically, many are aimed at rock crawling, but also have roots in go-fast

I've read & discussed tech with Bill for years, he is a great guy to discuss almost anything with and will gladly help if at all possible.

Bill's tech is a great addition to this post.

There is a ton of things to absorb from the pictures and Bill's tech. It may take some time and studying before an in-depth discussion might start.

I'm planning on using some of this tech in my build along with some JeepSpeed tech and tech from of other sources.

Weasel

July 20th, 2008, 00:52

I'd like it better if it was a uniball. I have no idea what experience racers have had using a rod end in that configuration. I can say that a 1.25" chromo rod end has a monster load capacity, but that load seems to be against the shaft/threads of the joint. I don't know what the load is.

We can't see a pic, what does it use on the bottom?
Look down farther, the pictures there show a spherical bearing being used, but it's attached to a shank still? Yeah ideally you should not run a rod end or threaded shank in shear but with the square bolt clamp it should keep the shank from bending. We use Jam nuts and as long as they are tight the shanks don't bend. Load capability of rod ends is usually in reference to the ball and race not the shank iirc. The shank would be easy to figure though it's just a bending moment. ~30.8kips

However a spherical bearing that is built into the arm or spindle in this case would be stronger as you have more cross area to transfer the stresses.

While it's a neat idea, I'm not sure I see the need to an adjustable spindle in that direction as it looks like it would adjust your camber and castor. Usually you only need to adjust camber and even then once you get it dialed in, it doesn't get changed so why make it adjustable?

TNT

July 20th, 2008, 09:24

I'd like it better if it was a uniball. I have no idea what experience racers have had using a rod end in that configuration. I can say that a 1.25" chromo rod end has a monster load capacity, but that load seems to be against the shaft/threads of the joint. I don't know what the load is.

We can't see a pic, what does it use on the bottom?

It is pretty hard to say what they are using for the lower mount. It seems to be a heim joint but I really can't tell for sure.

My best guess would be to have some adjustable camber. I would think in a desert race one degree or so of negative camber would help cornering. Depending on the track/race this would allow adjustment as needed It could also be replaced quickly during a race if needed.

I would think upper and lower uniballs would be stronger, but they would also take longer to replace on a pitstop. If the uniballs were mounted on the outer knuckle that would make probably the time to replace them about the same, if the knuckle was complete with hubs and rotors..

I did notice on A-arm type suspensions the uniballs are mounted on opposite planes. The lower is vertical and the uppers are horizontal planes.

FordGuy

July 20th, 2008, 09:34

I am definitely not a engineer, but as many heims that I have seen sheared off right at the top of the rod portion of the heim, I would still like to hear his reasoning, It might be right on. The heim clamps are definitely way better that just the jam nut, and it increases the strength of the heims shaft since the entire thread area is clamped, just not cheap!

Goatman

July 20th, 2008, 11:10

The reason has to be for camber adjustment, and since we can't see it clearly I'd assume the lower is a uniball. His experience might tell him that the combination is strong enough.....who knows? Poly Performance and others sell the clamp type rod end inserts.

I wouldn't think any of it would be so they could change that rod end quicker in a race, the need to change it would already mean the knuckle has come off. I can't see it wearing enough to need an in race change, and you wouldn't know it anyway, it would have to break......which you definitely wouldn't want.

FordGuy

July 20th, 2008, 11:31

The rod clamps are really cool. My friend makes them. They work really cool fabbed into boxed A-arms.

Goatman

July 20th, 2008, 11:47

Whats the opinion on how well the stock frame is going to hold up around the link arm cross member?

I looked again really close and it is welded to the stock metal. It's double/tripled up in that area, and there is quite a bit of surface area covered, it should be plenty strong. I've done it both ways, welded right to the stock frame, and plated it before welding to it. I prefer plating, as I had one failure due to the layers of the stock metal pulling apart, even if you use a very thin plate. But, if you plate it, you need to have plenty of plug welds so the stress point on the plate isn't just around the edges at the welds.....that's not making it any stronger. I also like plating it so you can get a better weld against the good steel in the plate rather than that funky thin galvanized crap. However, I also have had no problems with well designed mounts welded directly to the stock metal.

In this case, I think it's plenty strong enough, and some of the twisting force against the crossmember is well braced by the tube that reinforces the upper arm mounts. Plenty of surface area covered, and plenty of weld length.

FordGuy

July 20th, 2008, 11:52

When I first glanced at the original pic's, it looked like it was welded on the stock frame, I thought that's odd since he has done such a beautiful job framing up the rear. Looked again at some of the new pic's, and can see what you are talking about.

FordGuy

July 20th, 2008, 11:54

It would be interesting to get a weight on the truck. The power to weight ratio is going to be ugly!

Goatman

July 20th, 2008, 12:44

Isn't that a Hesco aluminum head on it? If it's a really well built 4.6 or 4.7L stroker, it might not be too bad. Most of our rigs are pretty heavy, I've never weighed mine, but with all the plating and cage and rock rails and bumpers and skid plates and axles it's got to be heavy. Mine does decently with the 4.6L stroker, and I know it's not as well built as that one should be. It would be interesting to compare weights.

Clive Skilton competed very successfully with a well built XJ truck with a 5.0L stroker a number of years ago, that thing was bad ass in it's day, and still bad ass now. I wonder where it is?

xjjeeper19

July 20th, 2008, 12:50

Goatman

July 20th, 2008, 13:07

Yeah, and it had some monster 1/4 eliptical springs in the rear. Like 15-20 leaves in them.

xjjeeper19

July 20th, 2008, 13:15

Yeah, and it had some monster 1/4 eliptical springs in the rear. Like 15-20 leaves in them.

I wish I could find those pictures, I originally saw them about 4 years ago, and haven't been able to find them since.

Justin

FordGuy

July 20th, 2008, 19:29

Yeah, and it had some monster 1/4 elliptical springs in the rear. Like 15-20 leaves in them.

I have not heard someone bring up that design in 10 years. I had a Friend that bought a old either class 8 or 1 truck (can't remember) but he never could end making it work, kept braking the rear leaf pack where it had this huge pre-load Allen bolt.

xjjeeper19

July 20th, 2008, 19:45

http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f66/xjjeeper19/5-47024-BlueLeduc.jpg

this is the one.....

xjjeeper19

July 20th, 2008, 20:01

There's one more of it here, but it has been repainted, and it ran in the Jeepspeed Mopar outlaw class.

http://www.aempower.com/ViewNews.aspx?NewsID=119

I Also found some Pictures of Curt Leduc's Sky Jacker Grand Cherokee.

The one thing I don't understand from the picture I just posted was the number.
It's running in Class 8. I figured it would be in Class 7 because Class 8 was full sized trucks...

Justin

xjjeeper19

July 20th, 2008, 20:11

Here's the one of LeDuc's ZJ, but I can't seem to find any other picture od either. Both of those Seem to have ran the Baja in 2003 and possibly some MDR BITD events but I'm having trouble finding it.

http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f66/xjjeeper19/untitled.jpg

Justin

FordGuy

July 20th, 2008, 22:00

I only saw it race one time, I wonder what happened ? back to the horsepower machine is my guess.

xcm

July 20th, 2008, 22:06

[quote=xcm]is there any reason to have huge frame rails all that way back when the 4 link rear mounts are around the b-pillar, with the shocks right behind that... Would it be preferable to go full tube from pretty much the b-pillar back, with the frame rails curving in and back, similar to these pics, ending at the shocks mounts?

The weight from two project tires, a jack, spare axle, drive-shaft, and add a 40 plus gal fuel cell hanging off of the back is a ridiculous amount of weight, not to mention what happens when you get bumped by an ass like Robby Gordon.

I]
thanks for the answer.
anyone else have any opinions on this? im sure it CAN be done, with enough tube and triangulation.... hell the TT's do it! and i dont plan to go withint 20mph of their top speeds or duty cycle. maybe with mounting the cell as close to the cab as possible, and only running 1 spare? this wouldnt see baja racing, at most MDR or something stateside. and how would you mount a tube chassis to a somewhat stock, but reinforced front end?if you attached it at like 15-20 points, would the jungle gym effect be enough to keep from ripping it off?

xcm

July 20th, 2008, 22:07

So, do you have any tech to discuss??

:D
NOPE, NONE TO BE FOUND. im neither testing anything, nor building anything at the moment, this could be considered my 'research stage'
thanks for breaking balls and pointing out my inferiority though!

Goatman

July 21st, 2008, 10:52

NOPE, NONE TO BE FOUND. im neither testing anything, nor building anything at the moment, this could be considered my 'research stage'
thanks for breaking balls and pointing out my inferiority though!

Hey, don't worry about it, I was teasing you. (you know, smiley face and all) I got a kick out of you saying let's get it back to tech and then posting links to other articles. Good articles, BTW, but nothing in them specifically about building a desert truck or vehicle design. Like you, I'm reading and researching stuff all the time, it's part of the enjoyment of the sport along with building them and using them.

anyone else have any opinions on this? im sure it CAN be done, with enough tube and triangulation.... hell the TT's do it! and i dont plan to go withint 20mph of their top speeds or duty cycle. maybe with mounting the cell as close to the cab as possible, and only running 1 spare? this wouldnt see baja racing, at most MDR or something stateside. and how would you mount a tube chassis to a somewhat stock, but reinforced front end?if you attached it at like 15-20 points, would the jungle gym effect be enough to keep from ripping it off?

Yes, you can build it with more tube and less frame. Where you cut the frame doesn't matter as far as strength goes, the attachment of tube to frame is the same regardless of where you do it. Check out Capt Ron's MJ buggy or my XJ buggy for examples of what you're talking about, and there are plenty of others. However, there's no particular benefit to having more tube and less frame other than getting the design parameters that you're after. Many buggies and desert trucks are fabbed up with rectangular tube or stock frames to meet class requirements, no real difference between using all tube.