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D30 R&P install

OverlandZJ

OverlandZJ

NAXJA Member # 101
Location
Bristol,PA
Hey guys, newb here to this kind of work. Been reading up some in the FSM, BillaVista's article.

I'm looking to swap the Dana 4:56 gearset from my HP30 to a new housing. I suspect the current housing is tweaked. The gearset is out of the old housing.

Lets talk tools first. I have a dial indicator, caliper, bearing seperator, and both inlb (thanks mofo) and ftlb Torque wrench's. I figure i need to run over to Harbor Freight and pick up a 12ton press. From what i'v read i dont need a pinion depth gauge.

I have a dremmel to make up setup bearings. Also have an install kit.

What else do i need?

Do i need to make all 4 old bearings into setup bearings?
 
Last edited by a moderator:
JeepFreak21 said:
How about a case spreader?
Billy
Click to expand...

Thanks for the move Billy.

I'v been told and also read here that a case spreader is not necessary for a D30. Some light tapping with a deadblow will seat the carrier... am i correct?
 
OverlandXJ said:
Do i need to make all 4 old bearings into setup bearings?
Click to expand...
Yes!
 
If you are buying the press anyway, just use 3" splitter and the press to pull the carrier bearings. HF often puts the 20 ton pres on sale for $159. Watch their ads. I would buy the 20 instead of the 12. I don't think the 12 is tall enough to press axle bearing off.
 
OverlandXJ said:
Would this work for pulling carrier bearings?

http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=93980
Click to expand...
I bought one of those sets and it bent all to hell the first time I tried to use it. I suggest renting a high quality bearing puller to prevent tweaking the bearing cage if you plan to reuse the bearings for setup. I also recommend buying some cheap new bearings to make setup bearings out of because the old ones have wear and won't give a true measurement when you install the new bearings.
 
RCP Phx said:
Yes!
Click to expand...

No.

You'll want to dremel out both old carrier bearings, and also the old inner pinion bearing race.

The new inner pinion bearing can be pressed on directly in place of the old one. As long as you maintain everything that was under it - typically an oil slinger - you won't have to mess with that one again. Make sure to drag the ring gear hard when checking the pattern so you get a good imprint on the marking paint.

Pinion depth shims go underneath the inner bearing race, which is why you'll want to be able to remove and install that one easily.

The carrier shims for setting backlash and preload go behind the carrier bearings, which is why you'll need to move those ones around.

Aside from that, the new outer pinion bearing race can be installed without issue, and the outer pinion bearing itself isn't a press fit anyway. A few words of advice, that I commonly see mis-posted:

- don't run a pattern if your backlash isn't correct. If it's not correct you're not going to keep it anyway, and getting it in spec will change the pattern you've got, so it's a waste of time.

- don't bother setting pinion preload until everything else is good. Your preload shims will depend on the depth shims which will change as you adjust the pattern. Just tighten the OLD PINION NUT down enough to give a little bit of turning resistance to make sure the bearings are seated properly and you'll be fine.

- if you're lucky enough to have numbers scribed on the heads of both pinions, those numbers represent the variation from nominal checking distance for that particular gearset. So if your old pinion says +4 and your new one says +2, subtract 0.002" from the shim stack and use that to start with.

Good luck. :D
 
vetteboy said:
No.

You'll want to dremel out both old carrier bearings, and also the old inner pinion bearing race.

The new inner pinion bearing can be pressed on directly in place of the old one. As long as you maintain everything that was under it - typically an oil slinger - you won't have to mess with that one again. Make sure to drag the ring gear hard when checking the pattern so you get a good imprint on the marking paint.

Pinion depth shims go underneath the inner bearing race, which is why you'll want to be able to remove and install that one easily.

The carrier shims for setting backlash and preload go behind the carrier bearings, which is why you'll need to move those ones around.

Aside from that, the new outer pinion bearing race can be installed without issue, and the outer pinion bearing itself isn't a press fit anyway. A few words of advice, that I commonly see mis-posted:

- don't run a pattern if your backlash isn't correct. If it's not correct you're not going to keep it anyway, and getting it in spec will change the pattern you've got, so it's a waste of time.

- don't bother setting pinion preload until everything else is good. Your preload shims will depend on the depth shims which will change as you adjust the pattern. Just tighten the OLD PINION NUT down enough to give a little bit of turning resistance to make sure the bearings are seated properly and you'll be fine.

- if you're lucky enough to have numbers scribed on the heads of both pinions, those numbers represent the variation from nominal checking distance for that particular gearset. So if your old pinion says +4 and your new one says +2, subtract 0.002" from the shim stack and use that to start with.

Good luck. :D
Click to expand...

All good advice except that last sentence. The depth markings on the pinion are irrelevant in this case because he is keeping the same R&P and changing housings, not the other way around.
 
I'll throw this out there for conversation topic and for your help. When you go up to 4.56's, you might have vibes from the front end. I did. I just did my gears yesterday.

I've never had vibes before but was getting them from 60 to 70 on the way home today. I disco'd my front driveshaft and ziptied it to the lca. Jumped on the highway and no vibes. I guess its time to have my driveshaft balanced.
 
DeftwillP said:
I'll throw this out there for conversation topic and for your help. When you go up to 4.56's, you might have vibes from the front end. I did. I just did my gears yesterday.

I've never had vibes before but was getting them from 60 to 70 on the way home today. I disco'd my front driveshaft and ziptied it to the lca. Jumped on the highway and no vibes. I guess its time to have my driveshaft balanced.
Click to expand...

It sounds more like you didn't mark the relationship of your driveshaft to pinion before taking the driveshaft off to do the gears.
 
MoFo said:
If you are buying the press anyway, just use 3" splitter and the press to pull the carrier bearings. HF often puts the 20 ton pres on sale for $159. Watch their ads. I would buy the 20 instead of the 12. I don't think the 12 is tall enough to press axle bearing off.
Click to expand...

Doug, i just aquired a 12ton for usage. Bud is out in IL working for CAT and needs it out of his shop this weekend as they are moving out. I'll store it for him till he gets home. Works out for the both of us. I'll check on the axleshaft bearing while i have it there.
 
OK, so should i start pinion depth with the old shim pack that came from this new axlehousing with 3:55's or the shimpack from old housing that had the 4:56's?

To make clear, i'm installing my used 4:56 gearset to a new housing that had 3:55's.
 
Ray H said:
All good advice except that last sentence. The depth markings on the pinion are irrelevant in this case because he is keeping the same R&P and changing housings, not the other way around.
Click to expand...

Eh - not quite. The new housing has a gearset in it.

OverlandXJ said:
OK, so should i start pinion depth with the old shim pack that came from this new axlehousing with 3:55's or the shimpack from old housing that had the 4:56's?
Click to expand...

Start with the shims in the new housing AND compensate for any difference in the etched numbers on the pinion heads, if available. :D
 
vetteboy said:
Eh - not quite. The new housing has a gearset in it.
Click to expand...
I see now. You are right. I was under the impression he had a bare housing.
 
vetteboy said:
Eh - not quite. The new housing has a gearset in it.
Click to expand...

Eh - not quite. :D I tossed the 3:55 pinion and bearings/races from the new housing into Timmay's scrap pile. I thought all i needed was the shims. Can i not measure the difference between shimpacks?

I still have the 3:55 ringgear and carrier with bearings/shims intact.

IIRC the old pinion was very close to the same marking which is +2 on the 4:56 pinion.
 
Either pack should give a good starting point!
 
OverlandXJ said:
Eh - not quite. :D I tossed the 3:55 pinion and bearings/races from the new housing into Timmay's scrap pile. I thought all i needed was the shims. Can i not measure the difference between shimpacks?

I still have the 3:55 ringgear and carrier with bearings/shims intact.

IIRC the old pinion was very close to the same marking which is +2 on the 4:56 pinion.
Click to expand...

The measurement scribed on the pinion head is the variation from nominal checking distance for that unique pair of gears, so measuring the shim pack won't really tell you much.

If the pinion numbers were really that close (and they could be), just start with the 3.55 shim pack and see what it gets you. It'll probably just add one or two more trials to the process at most.
 
vetteboy said:
The measurement scribed on the pinion head is the variation from nominal checking distance for that unique pair of gears, so measuring the shim pack won't really tell you much.

If the pinion numbers were really that close (and they could be), just start with the 3.55 shim pack and see what it gets you. It'll probably just add one or two more trials to the process at most.
Click to expand...

Oh, i understand now. It's manufacturing variance in the depth of the pinion bearing mating surface from nominal. I did catch the 3.57" or so nominal measurement in the FSM.

Thanks Vette and all...
 
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