Home-buying woes

[Darky]

We were almost closed on a house but it looks like it is going to fall through. The house is on a hot-water well and while we were checking things out and taking care of some work the appraiser required, the water quit working to the sinks and toilet. We were using the kitchen sink when it quit working, so I checked the bathroom sink which also didn't work, so I checked the toilet, which didn't work. The house isn't listed As Is and the seller (probate sale which I didn't know about until a couple weeks ago, we've been in the process of buying this house since mid-April) refuses to pay for any further repairs. We asked that they help with the repairs required by the appraiser and they grudgingly agreed to pay $250 spread across the costs of everything. I've put in $300 of my own money so far and its not even our house. I haven't yet signed any loan docs, just the paperwork to have the bank try for the loan. We're not stuck are we? As far as I can tell we have options still to walk away if the seller won't fix the water. Am I correct? My wife and I are to the point where we're willing to walk away from this even without trying to get reimbursement for the work we've already put in (painting the eaves and fascia over the deck, installing baseboard heaters in the two bedrooms) and rent for another year, however long it takes to find something to meet our needs. The realtor is either working for the seller's (even though they have their own realtor) or she's just not willing to put forth effort with getting things done for us. I mean, this is a small purchase in the grand scheme of things for housing. But it's still the biggest purchase I'll ever make for quite some time. This is supposed to be a buyer's market and yet the seller is making all kinds of demands on us, what gives?! I know the house has been vacant for a long time so if they want to quit paying property taxes on it, they're gonna have to give a bit here. I'm not putting anymore money into the house, so its on them to fix it or we'll find something else.
Sorry for the novel, this is just kinda me venting while also asking advice...:)

[FordGuy]

Sounds like a stand-off. They probably don't think you are going to walk away, So call their bluff! They are going to need to make the repairs more than likely anyway, so you will probably win.

[mage]

Walk!
there are so many houses on the market right now.

If you are pre-approved you have the power, if they want to sell they need to make it right.

Why would you put any money into house that you do not own? I don't even think its legal for you to be on the premises. I got kickout of my new house the day I funded, purchase never closed. The Fanny May bank didn't sign off on one sheet of paper. I had to Hobo it with the fam for the entire weekend.

[Jump This]

Don't put any money or time into something you don't own......yet.
There must be something about the house that you like a lot, otherwise you would have walked away by now.
What is it?
Is it worth dealing with some crap over the short haul in order to get what you want out of it?
In the book 'The art of the deal' one of the primary premises is that you should never let the 'others' know you realy have anything to lose.
If you act as though you don't realy care if you buy that house or any other house they are more likely to work to sell it to you.

I have done this a few times, and you would not believe how well that works.

Good luck!

[Darky]

Yeah, I've been seeing it now as a learning experience.
Its on 5 acres, big garage, and only $85k. But, now the whole well issue is making me think maybe not. If we have to drop another couple grand to redo the well (which was supposedly redone in Oct 07) its not such a deal.

EDIT:Just talked to the realtor again, she doesn't even want to try talking to the seller's about fixing anything. I think I'm done with this. Loan docs expire 7/10, I haven't signed them yet. What good is a realtor who won't stand up for the person she's supposed to be working for? I told her to contact the sellers and tell them I'm walking if they won't fix this. All she can say is that the seller's have said all along that they're selling as is, but the listing doesn't even show it as As Is. I talked to another friend who's a realtor and she checked the listing for me last night. I'll admit I made the mistake of not having an inspection done, but I couldn't afford it. So that's lesson one. Have at least 1 grand saved before trying to buy a house. Lesson two, be pre-approved. Lesson three, don't put your money into a house you don't own. Don't be pushed around. If they want to sell, they'll have to put something into this as well.

[XJ&CHZ4ME]

like stated above, WALK! there are plenty of house out there and dont feel like your getting pushed or pulled into making a decision that your not going to be happy with. If you have a gut feeling that it is going to be a mess, then listen to your gut and walk away. since you have not signed anything, your clear to go.

[FordGuy]

Tell the owner yourself that you done! Screw the Realtor, You might be surprised on the outcome.

[RichP]

How deep are the wells out in the desert ? No city water ? Oh, whats a hot well.

[Darky]

Apparently its a well dug into a hot spring, which could very well explain the sulfur smell. If that's the case we don't want it anyways. I got enough problems without being the guy who smells like rotten eggs all the time...:D
City doesn't bring water out there. Its only about a mile (tops) outside of the city limits. No mail either.

I don't have any info on the seller. I didn't even know it was a probate sale until recently. It would've been nice to know the previous owners died and I was dealing with an heir/executor of the estate.

[Ray H]

Yeah, I've been seeing it now as a learning experience.
Its on 5 acres, big garage, and only $85k. But, now the whole well issue is making me think maybe not. If we have to drop another couple grand to redo the well (which was supposedly redone in Oct 07) its not such a deal.

EDIT:Just talked to the realtor again, she doesn't even want to try talking to the seller's about fixing anything. I think I'm done with this. Loan docs expire 7/10, I haven't signed them yet. What good is a realtor who won't stand up for the person she's supposed to be working for? I told her to contact the sellers and tell them I'm walking if they won't fix this. All she can say is that the seller's have said all along that they're selling as is, but the listing doesn't even show it as As Is. I talked to another friend who's a realtor and she checked the listing for me last night. I'll admit I made the mistake of not having an inspection done, but I couldn't afford it. So that's lesson one. Have at least 1 grand saved before trying to buy a house. Lesson two, be pre-approved. Lesson three, don't put your money into a house you don't own. Don't be pushed around. If they want to sell, they'll have to put something into this as well.

DO you have a realtor under contract or have you been talking to the sellers realtor? If its your realtor, you need to have a talk with them because its their job and legal responsibility to watch out for you. That includes advising you against putting money into a house you dont own and it includes passing your wishes to the sellers.
Get yourself a new realtor then go house shopping with a buyers agent you can trust.
Its a good market to buy in. Its fortunite you can take advantage of it right now.

[fscrig75]

Walk away fast!!!
I know inspections can be expensive, but it is a necessary expense!! Imagine if that water problem didn't come up and you had already signed the papers. You would be as* out.
How long has this place been on the market? If its been there awhile, let the seller fix it, let it sit on the market for a bit longer, and then make that guy a low ball offer, i doubt anyone is going to buy it with out running water. You might get lucky.
Another thing you could try is try and get an estimate of what it would cost to fix this problem, and then get some money knocked off the asking price. I would double the cost. $2500 to fix, get him to knock $5000 off the price.
I'm not trying to be nosey just wondering who you went through to get your realtor? If I'm not mistaken your with the USMC, you ought to try and give USAA a call. I've used them twice now, and have nothing but good things to say about them.

[Darky]

We found a house we liked, called the real estate company about it and they sent her out. She's our realtor, the sellers have their own agent. I think I will be walking away. I haven't been happy with the loan people, the realtor or anything so far. The only thing I liked was the house (which was found by our realtor. She was real quick to turn me away from any others). This house has been on the market for a long time. This has been an expensive learning experience. Definitely on the next attempt we will retaining our own inspector and appraiser. We will also be using a different realtor. We've got one that goes to our church that we'll likely use. Unfortunately, this means we'll have to rent somewhere while we save money to put towards all the expenses of buying a house in the first place.

[RichP]

I built houses for a few summers, framing, sheathing, etc and have learned all the other stuff OJT from owning 3 homes plus I worked for an electrical contractor before I went in the Navy years ago. Consider looking into the community college and see if they have a home inspection course. Like I said mine was all OJT, it may be worth the $500 or so. West coast water has always been a horror story and desert water is something else again. Good luck but in this case I would have serious doubts about the house, with no water I'm thinking it will not be possible to get a certificate of occupancy even if you did buy it. If the water is high in sulfur a filtering system will probably run about $2k to filter that out.
One other thing I am thinking of, does the deed come with mineral rights ? that I have heard is an issue out there and hopefully the original owner did not sell them off separately or buy the original deed with them assigned to someone else.

[goodburbon]

Most realtors will have you sign a contract with them for 6 months of their services. Make sure you are not under contract to use her, and if she isn't listening to you ditch her ass.

I know your headache. I bought a house in Colorado last year. It had been vacant for 2 years and was a forclosure. It was never winterized, and was 1000 miles from me. It took some doing to get the lendors to agree to lend on it without running water, and it took a bit of un announced work like you did. I got running water to the house while the guy was inspecting it before the closing, so he was able to sign off on everything but the hot water.

Of course I was not within my legal rights at the time as
a. I am not a licensed plumber.
b. I did not own the home.

Had I effed up the place It would have been my ass on the line.

[Ray H]

We found a house we liked, called the real estate company about it and they sent her out. She's our realtor, the sellers have their own agent.

If you called the listing broker and they sent an agent out and you didnt sign a buyers agency agreement, I got news for you, she works on the behalf of the seller. She may be nice to you and act as though shes in your corner, but believe me, she works for the seller.
Agency is with the brokerage office, not the agent and unless you actually sign a buyers agent agreement, you are odd man out, their responsibility lies with the seller.
My advice is to find an agent that you communicate well with and you trust and go ahead and sign into a buyers agency with them. It doesnt cost you anything, you dont pay their commision, the seller still pays. What it means for you is that you have an agent who has a legal responsibility to watch after your needs. What the agent gains from this buyers rel;ationship is a guaranteed commission when you buy a house. (again, the seller pays this). The drawback for you is that if you buy a FSBO, you will have to pay your agent's commission. Not that big of a deal really when you consider that the FSBO will probably be cheaper because the sellers dont have to pay commission.

[Darky]

I just talked to her and she went out with the seller's agent to check on the well situation. They said its just that the pressure tank has no pressure in it. The smell is caused by the water sitting stagnant so long. I figure we'll see if pressurizing the tank takes care of it and then run the water like they said. If that takes care of it then we'll continue forward. If it still doesn't satisfy me, we'll move on.

[goodburbon]

pressurizing the tank? That is what the well is supposed to do, and water sitting stagnant in pipes will not give it a sulphur smell.

[fscrig75]

Well if they fix this problem and you do decide to go through with this purchase, I hope you get a inspection done by a professional. It may cost a bit now but it will save you huge in the long run. Also if there is stuff that needs fixed you can work some cost reduction into the final numbers, but then you'll have to pay to fix it.
Either way get the inspection done!

[RichP]

Well if they fix this problem and you do decide to go through with this purchase, I hope you get a inspection done by a professional. It may cost a bit now but it will save you huge in the long run. Also if there is stuff that needs fixed you can work some cost reduction into the final numbers, but then you'll have to pay to fix it.
Either way get the inspection done!

Yup, I agree, the pump or well system should have a tank somehwere in the house, it's about 3ft hi and 3ft diameter, usually bright blue, it holds pressure with a bladder inside. I just had to replace mine last month, it was 22 years old, $350 and I did the removal and reinstall myself then pumped it up with a 12v compresser plugged into my TJ :D. It's also a kind of holding tank to maintain pressure till the pump kicks on. I've got a 525ft well here and the house in NJ had a 50ft, both had tanks, on the deep well the pump is all the way down the bottom, on the 50ft the pump was in the cellar sitting on a concrete block platform that we made.
As far as the sulfur smell, get a test kit from Sears, fill it at the house and send it in. My son tests ours at college, he's an environmental science and biology major so he just does it, the kit though is like $15 or $20 and includes some basic tests but sulfur is one of them..
Now that I'm thinking, if you have a high sulfur content that tends to eat sintered metal [like GL6 in an AX tranny] so any brass fittings you have are probably pretty badly pitted and if the pump is at ground level I bet that the anti-drainback valve thats in the well at the end of the hose pickiup is probably eaten up too which could cause the pump to loose prime.

And fill that test kit yourself, you want YOUR eyballs on those bottles when they are filled, consider it a pee test and the realtor wants it to pass.. :D :D :D

[Ray H]

I just talked to her and she went out with the seller's agent to check on the well situation. They said its just that the pressure tank has no pressure in it. The smell is caused by the water sitting stagnant so long. I figure we'll see if pressurizing the tank takes care of it and then run the water like they said. If that takes care of it then we'll continue forward. If it still doesn't satisfy me, we'll move on.
Sounds fishy.
The well pump provides water pressure. The pressure tank should have an air buffer in it to minimize sudden pressure changes. If that buffer is gone, you will still get water pressure out of the toilet and all other fixtures. The only way you would not have pressure is if the pump isnt working.
Water will sometimes smell like sulfur if it sits for awhile and has even a little bit of sulfur in it. Im not sure what a "hot well" is but it sounds like it may have sulfur in it. A moderate amount of sulfur isnt bad for you but it sure will stick up your clothing and everything else in the house.

[Bent]

Well if they fix this problem and you do decide to go through with this purchase, I hope you get a inspection done by a professional. It may cost a bit now but it will save you huge in the long run.
You may want to get home insurance for a couple of years as well. IIRC it's a few hundred bucks a year but it can sure take the sting out of any surprises.

[fscrig75]

You may want to get home insurance for a couple of years as well. IIRC it's a few hundred bucks a year but it can sure take the sting out of any surprises.

Yea those aren't bad either. I didn't get one when I bought my house, and never needed it thank god. But now looking back on it I should have bought one. It may seem like a waste of money if you never use it, but if your furnace or something big goes it will help you out a lot.

[Ray H]

You may want to get home insurance for a couple of years as well. IIRC it's a few hundred bucks a year but it can sure take the sting out of any surprises.

Are you talking about mortage insurance, home owners insurance or a home warranty? Those are different things for different reasons.
One should ALWAYS have home owners insurance.
He said he was short of money right now, that means hes probably going to finance nearly all the home value, he will be required to carry mortgage insurance until he owes less than 80% of the homes value.
A home warranty is something you purchase that covers things like the water system. Not a bad idea if you dont have the money to pay for repairs as they happen.

[Bent]

home warranty

Yea, that one.

:D

[IslanderOffRoad]

have more than one grand saved up?

isn't that pretty low for a home down payment?

[goodburbon]

have more than one grand saved up?

isn't that pretty low for a home down payment?

Yeah, out of pocket for me was more along the lines of 31 grand.

[RichP]

have more than one grand saved up?

isn't that pretty low for a home down payment?

Bear sterns must be back in business again... :D :D :D

[Darky]

The grand is for expenses (inspection, etc). I'm going with a VA loan which doesn't require the down payment, or else it'd take me 10 years to get into a house...:D We have the home warranty in the closing costs, however it doesn't cover wells. The more I look into all this, the more I feel I need to wait. I did want to expand the coverage from the warranty but can't afford it. The idea of sulfur water is unappealing. I know it'll piss off the realtor as well as the sellers but unless I have a change of heart (again ;)) I'ma hafta say no.

[Ray H]

Yep, sulfur water can suck. There are filters you can put on it that will filter out the smell.
As for the realtor. Do me (and yourself) a favour. Ask "your realtor" who she represents. I think you will find that unless you signed a buyers agreement, she represents the sellers. Agency is something most people dont understand. Just because an agant meets you somewhere and shows you the house doesnt at all mean she represents you. As a buyer you have probably shared financial and personal information with "your agent" that you would probably not like the sellers to know. Guess what, unless you are in a buyers agreement with that agent, she is obligated to share what she knows with her client (the seller).
Just some words of wisdom from a former real estate agent.

[spudly]

If it doesn't feel right, walk away. Yeah it sucks having put in your own cash to fix something you thought would be yours, but at least it's only a few hundred and you're not on the hook for $85k for something that you won't be happy with. Ditch the current relator and find a buyers agent you trust. They will usually have a good inspector they work with.

I'm not sure how things are over in 29 Palms, but over in the Victorville area there are plenty of properties available. I just got done working on our property in Phelan and saw plenty of for sale signs. Now if only a few of the parcels next to mine would pop up for sale :D

[Jump This]

Massive eyes rolling...

You say the house has been vacant for some time?

It will take a while to get the stink out of the water.
I'd bet you are talking about the hot water too....
It only takes a few months in the heat for that smell to start up....see it all the time out here.
Make sure you got a good well, then buy the damn place!!
:D

[Darky]

Sounds fishy.
The well pump provides water pressure. The pressure tank should have an air buffer in it to minimize sudden pressure changes. If that buffer is gone, you will still get water pressure out of the toilet and all other fixtures. The only way you would not have pressure is if the pump isnt working.
Water will sometimes smell like sulfur if it sits for awhile and has even a little bit of sulfur in it. Im not sure what a "hot well" is but it sounds like it may have sulfur in it. A moderate amount of sulfur isnt bad for you but it sure will stick up your clothing and everything else in the house.
They say the well inspectors turned off the circuit breaker to the pump after they checked it. I'm going out there today to see about that. There had better be a circuit breaker next to the well/pump; I already checked the circuit breakers on the house and turned off then back on anything that mentioned well or pump. If no luck with that, I'm definitely running away, tail between my legs if I have to...either way my wife is still uncertain about the very idea of having undrinkable water coming out of our fixtures seeing as to how our 2 yr old boy likes to drink the bath water. Gross, yes, but we can't stop him. Look away to grab shampoo, turn back and he's got his mouth under water suckin it up. I plan on asking her today if she's contracted with us or if she's actually for the seller.

[Ray H]

They say the well inspectors turned off the circuit breaker to the pump after they checked it. I'm going out there today to see about that. There had better be a circuit breaker next to the well/pump; I already checked the circuit breakers on the house and turned off then back on anything that mentioned well or pump. If no luck with that, I'm definitely running away, tail between my legs if I have to...either way my wife is still uncertain about the very idea of having undrinkable water coming out of our fixtures seeing as to how our 2 yr old boy likes to drink the bath water. Gross, yes, but we can't stop him. Look away to grab shampoo, turn back and he's got his mouth under water suckin it up. I plan on asking her today if she's contracted with us or if she's actually for the seller.

There should be an electrical box close by the pressure tank. Thats where the pressure cut off switch is located. There could be another breaker or a switch located in that box.
I bit of sulfur isnt really bad for you. Ive read that in the olden days, farmers used to like having alittle sulfur because it meant there wasnt harmful bacteria in the water. Im not sure how true that is.

[Spudboy]

Geothermal water usually has a high sulpher content. Most likely the smell will never go away. It is not dangerous to drink unless it is really, really high. There is a secondary drinking water standard for sulpher that is based on aesthetics, not health risk.

There is a possibility that the pump is turned off and you were operating off of residual pressure in the tank. In that case, turning the pump back on should refill the tank and you should be fine. The air side of the bladder shouldn't leak even if there is no water in the tank.

Get an inspection. I'm pretty smart about houses having contracted my own and fixing several others, but I still can't spot all of the stuff a good inspector can find. Personally, any purchase offer I would sign would be contingent on passing an independent inspection. If there is no contingency, you may still be able to walk but may also lose your earnest money.

Just so you know, my daughter is looking for a house right now. She has a signed agreement with her agent that the agent works for her. One of the stipulations is that she had to specifically say it was okay for the agent to show one of her own (agency) listings and that she understood that the agent had a dual responsibility in that case. It almost sounds like the agent you are using is walking a fine line on ethics - her allegiance should have been disclosed up front.

Good luck to you.

[Darky]

Turned on the circuit breaker yesterday, it was right next to the pump. Went back in and we have water! Smell isn't bad, barely noticeable. The hose still stinks though, but at least the house water doesn't. Going to sign papers today. We should be moving in by next week.

[GrimmJeeper]

Glad it worked out for ya! :cheers:

[Ray H]

Congrats on the new pad.
Enjoy home ownership.

[fscrig75]

congrats welcome to the head ache the rest of us have, ha ha. but its all worth it in the end, to come home to your OWN house and not a rental. Good luck.

[Darky]

After yet another delay (paid closing costs only to find out that the water needed to be tested before the bank could fund, the test finally came back and we will be proud home-owners either tomorrow or Monday. :party: Bout time! I mean never mind that the original closing date was 5/26...and today is 7/17...:D

[goodburbon]

LMFAO at your new username..

[GSequoia]

LMFAO at your new username..

There goes the neighborhood?
:gee:

[Darky]

Well, escrow closed on Friday. After a failed trip to get there on Friday to get our keys, I picked them up this afternoon, went back to the house and got our garage door openers :D So, yeah, I'm officially a home owner now!
:party:

[GrimmJeeper]

congrats man! lets see the new place! (when is the jeep party?)


:D

[FlexdXJ]

Walk away man. There are ten more people who are willing to work with you so they can get a fresh start. I am going to start the process myself in a couple weeks. I need my own garage and I am tired of this shitty apartment. :D oh damn guess i was a little late on that. Congrats man. when is the :party:

[Darky]

Probably mid August to mid September. Time to unpack and move in and not so be damned hot like it is usually here in 29 Palms in July and August!!:D

As the date approaches I will post here, or more likely in the SoCal chapter the details...:)

[Darky]

We are officially living in the house now, still unpacking and I've got a couple things to fix with the cooler and roof, but nothing major.

[SeansBlueXJ]

http://dvdtalk.com/forum/images/smilies/worthless.gif

Let's see the new home!!

[kdailey4315]

Congrats. My wife and I just bought our first house also. It's a great feeling

[Darky]

Congrats. My wife and I just bought our first house also. It's a great feeling
Indeed it is! Congrats to you as well.

[Darky]

Finally, pics of my house!
Northern View
http://i266.photobucket.com/albums/ii269/darkXJ/House/IMG_1658.jpg
West
http://i266.photobucket.com/albums/ii269/darkXJ/House/IMG_1659.jpg
East
http://i266.photobucket.com/albums/ii269/darkXJ/House/IMG_1661.jpg
South
http://i266.photobucket.com/albums/ii269/darkXJ/House/IMG_1660.jpg
Front of house
http://i266.photobucket.com/albums/ii269/darkXJ/House/IMG_1643.jpg

[Darky]

Kitchen
http://i266.photobucket.com/albums/ii269/darkXJ/House/IMG_1673.jpg
Kids' room
http://i266.photobucket.com/albums/ii269/darkXJ/House/IMG_1675.jpg
Our room
http://i266.photobucket.com/albums/ii269/darkXJ/House/IMG_1676.jpgOur room is long and somewhat narrow.
Living room
http://i266.photobucket.com/albums/ii269/darkXJ/House/IMG_1674.jpg
Garage
http://i266.photobucket.com/albums/ii269/darkXJ/House/IMG_1678.jpg
Garage is full, haven't gotten it all in yet, its a two car garage.

[kennzz05]

congrats, i have to ask whats with the landing lights on the roof locaters for police/fire looks like the swamp cooler on the roof needs some work too

[Darky]

And just for fun...
http://i266.photobucket.com/albums/ii269/darkXJ/House/IMG_1712.jpg
My Claymore...it comes about to nip level on me...I'm 6'2"
:D

[Darky]

congrats, i have to ask whats with the landing lights on the roof locaters for police/fire looks like the swamp cooler on the roof needs some work too
I believe they're clearance lights for the Marine pilots to keep from hittin the house...We're real close to the base. I plan on using them to direct pizza delivery guys...:D

[Tom R.]

I believe they're clearance lights for the Marine pilots to keep from hittin the house...We're real close to the base. I plan on using them to direct pizza delivery guys...:D
LOL :)

Yeah, I thought they might be part of the lights for an airstrip. What's with the kraft paper roof? ;)

[scottmcneal]

Congrats on the house... I wish i had your garage... I think i can get my hands on a good cooler for you, i'll look tuesday to see if we still have it.. I'll pm you later... Again, congrats on the new HOME..

[Darky]

Congrats on the house... I wish i had your garage... I think i can get my hands on a good cooler for you, i'll look tuesday to see if we still have it.. I'll pm you later... Again, congrats on the new HOME..
That would be awesome! I tried putting more tar down inside where it leaked out the bottom and it seems it just got worse. Its got some rust issues. I think part of it is form the heavily mineraled water from our hot water well. Maybe I can finally pick up them dang bump stop plates I left there in Feb... :D The Jeep barely fits in the garage due to a sagging door.Once I get some 33s, it won't fit anymore. But that just means the wife's van and my Focus will have room.

Tom: Yeah, it needs some new coating (Elasti-Kote? I think is what its called). Its worse than I originally thought, but it holds for now until I can get a new jug and get up there to remove old peeling coating and roll some new stuff on...:D

[Rob Mayercik]

You know, it's kinda funny - I looked at your exterior pics, and the first thought into my head was, "hey, he bought Bert Gummer's place from Tremors!" :laugh:

Congrats, though.

Rob

[kennzz05]

I plan on using them to direct pizza delivery guys...:D

id be highly suprised if there were any pizza delivery places within delivery range, how far from hospital,grocery,walmart, intelligent life of any kind ??? for what its worth ive used bondo to repair those leaky cooler pans

[Darky]

We're actually not too far out, only about 3-4 miles off the main drag through town. Its just that this is 29 Palms where once you get off the main drag, you're in the desert...:D Walmart's bout 45 minutes, hospital bout 20, Stater Bros (grocery) bout 15.

[Hammered]

Most realtors will have you sign a contract with them for 6 months of their services. Make sure you are not under contract to use her, and if she isn't listening to you ditch her ass.




Listen to this guy.

[Ray H]

We're actually not too far out, only about 3-4 miles off the main drag through town. Its just that this is 29 Palms where once you get off the main drag, you're in the desert...:D Walmart's bout 45 minutes, hospital bout 20, Stater Bros (grocery) bout 15.

How close are you to MCAGCC? I cant recall what the commissary is like there, do they even have one? I know they have an E club;)

[Darky]

I'm about 10 minutes from base. Most of that is driving parallel to base to get to the gate...