Guns

[Jester99]

I've been thinking about it for a long time but I'm about ready to buy a handgun. I have never owned a gun before and I've only shot a shotgun a handful of times. Any recommendations you guys could make as far as educating myself better about them and what to buy would be most helpful. This will be for the home and not anything else. I'm moving downtown into an area that isn't that great but isn't that bad either. I wanna be ready for any problems that might arise.

[RCman]

I don't think I'll ever forget what my hunter ed instructor (required in MA) told me:
"Get the biggest baddest handgun you can handle if its for personal protection. If you have to put ten rounds into a guy 'cause you only got a .22, then you're going to jail as well 'cause the cops are gonna want to know why you pumped so many rounds in him. Make it simple and stop him in one or two and you'll be home in an hour."

That being said... I'm on the market as well. ;)

[5-90]

My first response will be to check out local ranges - many of them now allow you to rent a pistol for an hour or so - which gives you a chance to check a few out.

If that won't work, I'd say get either a .357 Magnum (which will also fire .38 Special - a lighter load allowing you to get used to the thing,) or a 1911/1991 variant (Jonathan Arthur Ciener - and a few others, I'm sure - make a conversion kit that will allow you to fire .22LR through the thing - again, familiarisation and cheap practise.)

This will allow you to get a useful handgun - and it's like having two guns in one (either by allowing the use of two - or more! - calibres, or through having a conversion that can be shipped to your door. The receiver/frame is the only part that carries a serial number, and the only part that really has to go through an FFL.)

Colt and S&W both make decent .357 wheelguns, and 1911/1991 variants are as common as fleas.

[outlander]

I vote Glock regardless of caliber(glock 22,9mm,357,40cal)
Second would be a springfield xd model.

I used to have a smith & wesson sigma 9mm that retails for about $300 and all around it wasnt a bad gun I wouldn't trust it as my primary self/home defense gun.Its just too damn bad I can't fit my SKS in my holster!

Since you're new to handguns and not knowing what your physical characteristics are I'd go with a 9mm because its easier to handle than say a 357 or 45cal.
If this is gonna be your "house" gun you want to minimize the chance of the round(s) going through walls and hitting neighbors or your family as they sleep in the next room..Whats wrong with a good defense shotgun?You have the option of loading a couple of "birdshot" shells then a couple of 00 buck and lastly a deer slug.If you go through the first four shells and they are still comming the deer slug will stop anyone!!!Not to mention that just the famous sound of a shotgun being racked is a huge deterrent in itself!!!

Ammo is cheaper for a 9mm than most other calibers too.s
Depending on the laws in your state you can buy(gun sometimes already comes with)Hi capacity magazines.Someone would have to be in full body armor to keep comming at you when you have put 15 rounds in them.

I recommend buddying up with someone that is into guns(and isn't a poser)and spend some time on the various gun forums on the net.
Well thats my take on it I'm sure someone will disagree....talking about gun size is like starting a debate about politics...lol

[srimes]

I was in a similar position and went with a glock 17. Simple, reliable, well proven. 9mm may not be the "ideal" self-defense round, but it'll work. I also like the 17 round clips. I wanted something that I could take into the woods that would be smaller and lighter than a rifle.

[Steve_Moore]

I like 'em. BIG ones.

[southernrebel20]

You don't need the biggest baddest caliber made. A 9mm will do a great job for home defense and be easy for you to learn handgun skills with. I personally like the .40 caliber. I have a smithWesson M&P. A great gun for a reasonable price. For home defense you want a pistol that will reliably fire EVERY time you pull the trigger. Glock is a great choice simply because of their reliability. In the end it is what you are comfortable with. Go to a range, rent a few guns in varying calibers and see what suits you the best.

[Mr. Pickle]

I went with a Springfield XD 9mm for my first and I love it. I highly reccomend it. I think if you put a bullet of any caliber into a guy he is going to stop.....unless you guys have zombies out there.

The bigger the gun the harder it is to group repeat shots. JMHO. :)

[RichP]

RESEARCH RESEARCH RESEARCH, then go to a range that has rentals, buy a box of 22's, box of 38's and 357's, box of 9mm, box of 45 then start renting them. Find a salesman who is not an asshat. My personal preference is a 1911 in .45, my carry weapon is a Colt Gold cup but I'm also 6'5" and 250# so size is not an issue. I plan on getting a Springfield arms or colt .45 acp in the smaller 3 1/2" size when I get some extra cash. I think there is a big thread on this in the adventure forum if I remember correctly.

[Jester99]

Well after reading for the last 30 minutes it seems that I should go with a shotgun instead of a handgun for home protection. I can inflict a good amount of damage at the close range I would be firing at. Plus for me a shotgun would be more affordable. Looks like I might go with a Mossberg 500 since it seems to be the most recommended.
:party:

[RichP]

Well after reading for the last 30 minutes it seems that I should go with a shotgun instead of a handgun for home protection. I can inflict a good amount of damage at the close range I would be firing at. Plus for me a shotgun would be more affordable. Looks like I might go with a Mossberg 500 since it seems to be the most recommended.
:party:

I like the winchester 1200 12ga pump combo, comes with 2 barrels, 27" with screw out chokes that you buy as needed and a 20" slug barrel.

[Stihl029]

I like my 44 mag but it kicks too much only 3" barrel, My 1911 is pretty sweet for home protection and keeping in the glovebox. I also really like the .460 on that x-frame that S&W has, not too much kick and very accurate...not for home use though too much over penetration. That is my biggest concern next to stopping someone: Will it cause harm to others not involved? The apartment I live in is not the best structure.

[5-90]

If you want a shotty for home defense, get a Winchester 1200/1300 or a Mossberg 500/590 - both are excellent, simple, and inexpensive. The Remington 870 is also excellent - but since LE likes it so much, you end up paying a premium for it.

A very nearly idea home defense load is #4 buckshot - it's large and heavy enough to get someone's immediate, full, and undivided attention; but it's also light enough that it gets stopped by interior walls (drywall doesn't stop much - I can punch a hole through both sides of a wall with only a little effort. But, I'm also about Rich's size - 6'3", 255#.)

The 9m/m for HD isn't a calibre of choice - unless you can find Glaser Safety Slugs easily. The 9m/m has a long history of overpenetration - and it would seriously suck to miss someone you do want to hit and hit someone you do not want to! If you're set on something in the 9m/m persuasion, the .38 Special or .357 Magnum with soft-cast wadcutters or hollowpoints is a better choice.

Also, the .40S&W and .45ACP make decent home defense rounds using soft-cast hollowpoints (like Winchester Silvertips) for those who aren't willing to able to put some serious effort into their training. Bear in mind that shooting under stress is much different from practising at a point on the firing line, and not everyone is willing or able to simulate that in training.

For simplicity, tho, I'd say the idea HD firearm is a decent pump 12ga, 18-20" barrel, loaded with #4 buckshot.

[outlander]

Yea I forgot about hollow points to lessen the chance of overpenetration....I was reading about the "hague" convention sometime ago and found it ironic that our military is limited in the type of ammo it can use in rifles and sidearms.....something about certain types of ammo being less humane....WTF?? It's called war not a paintball tournement!!!

Anyway......
Good choice on getting a shot gun for home defense,point and shoot.You don't have to be as precise with your aim(you do if you're using a slug,though)In times of stress this is a real advantage.(edit:it seems that 5-90 beat me to that important point)

Get a shot gun with a smooth bore and not rifled so you can shoot either shot shells or slugs**disclamer it is not advised to shoot shot through a rifled barrel**
I don't really recommend slugs for home defense because like myself and 5-90 have mentioned in our above posts you run the risk of "collateral damage".Also you won't have the scatter effect of a shot shell.I would load the gun with shot shells first and put a slug in last so you have that show stopper as a last resort.

I know a farmer guy who takes apart some of his shells and takes the shot out of it and replaces it with rock salt and then closes the shell back up and uses candle wax to keep it closed.Less than lethal and the bad guy swears he got shot with lead!!!Keeps the dirtbike and atv crowd out of his fields.....

[Kejtar]

My first response will be to check out local ranges - many of them now allow you to rent a pistol for an hour or so - which gives you a chance to check a few out.
X2
Also consider taking a class of sorts where an instructor will run you through some models.
Also I do second the recommendation of the 1911 platform.

[Kejtar]

Well after reading for the last 30 minutes it seems that I should go with a shotgun instead of a handgun for home protection. I can inflict a good amount of damage at the close range I would be firing at. Plus for me a shotgun would be more affordable. Looks like I might go with a Mossberg 500 since it seems to be the most recommended.
:party:
On shotty's I'll actually recommend Remington 870. They are decently priced and they are really reliable.

[5-90]

On shotty's I'll actually recommend Remington 870. They are decently priced and they are really reliable.

Ah - they've come back down? Good - they are good pumpers, they just got spendy for a little while.

I'd say, if you get the full-length mag, put four #4 buck shells in and top off with slugs. (Remember, the first rounds you put in the shotgun are the first rounds that come out. So, put the slugs in first.)

If you get the "short" mag (only holds 2-3 rounds, common on "game guns" due to hunting regs,) then two buck and one slug will do.

You don't want to use a rifled barrel with shot because you end up with a "donut" pattern - with a large hole in the middle. Bad idea. You can run shot through a rifled barrel (it will fire and function,) but you don't want to.

Get used to them so you don't end up "short-stroking" them in a critical situation - but pumps tend to like abuse, so you can feel free to just slap the thing around.

I do advise against a pistol grip shotgun - the rifle stock is more versatile, and easier to work with. Especially for a 12ga - the recoil on them can be fairly stout, and the rifle stock will let you "roll" it over your wrist, instead of whacking you with it all at once.

[Ray H]

A shotgun is my personal fav for home defense but its tough recommending a gun to someone you dont know. We dont know how big your hands are, how strong you are or if you will be intimidated by it, is someone smaller ever going to use it, ect.. All of these things matter when choosing a gun. You asked about pistols so heres that.
I dont think you should get the biggest badest gun out there. For your first pistol, I would commend something on the tame side but still large enough to change an intruder's life expectancy. Im thinking 9mm or 38/357. Both of these are deadly with the right defensive loads and both are easy and cheap to shoot. Cheap to shoot is an important factor when purchasing your first pistol because you should get out to shoot it as much as you can so you get comfortable with it (this goes for anyone in the house who may need to use it as well). You dont want to get something like a 454 Casull or something that cost you a fortune to practice with.
As for auto loader vs. revolver. My personal preference for home defense is a revolver because they are point and shoot. No need to mess with a safety or magazine. Leaving mags loaded for long periods of time has benn covered here before. Some say it weakens the spring, some say it doesnt. I dont like keeping mags loaded, thats just me. So I guess my recommendation is a 357 revolver (shoot 38s to practice and load up some 357s for business). In the stress of defending yourself, you wont notice the difference. There are a number of good revolvers available, S&W, Colt, Ruger, Taurus, Dan Wesson. Shop for fit and price.
You say you dont plan to carry it but if you did I would change my recommendation to a auto.

[Mudderoy]

Well after reading for the last 30 minutes it seems that I should go with a shotgun instead of a handgun for home protection. I can inflict a good amount of damage at the close range I would be firing at. Plus for me a shotgun would be more affordable. Looks like I might go with a Mossberg 500 since it seems to be the most recommended.
:party:

100% Get a short "legal" shotgun. Short in case you have to chase them around the various rooms in your house. ;o)

http://muckleroy.com/images/shotgun.jpg

For conceal and carry get a gun with a good rep, like a glock. I recommend the 40 cal, or 45. The 9mm is good if you want to shoot thru the bad guy, your wall, your wife, your child, and nick the paint on your XJ parked in the street. 9mm is designed to wound more than one enemy combatant. Idea being that your removed two soldiers from the battlefield. 40 cal is meant to kill with a few rounds. Remember shooting someone doesn't mean they are dead. They may die, but what will they be able to do to you, or your family before they bleed to death?

[Art Triggs]

My favorites have been a very old but very nice Smith and Wesson police model shotgun - their "police" choked barrel has a nice tight pattern with buckshot, but it still handles slugs. It's a very convincing weapon, only has a 4 round magazine, but the first shot is the most important. I don't care for pistol grip shotguns I really believe they do not handle as well, and are much harder to control. As far as handguns, practice a lot, the first 2-3 shots are all the opportunity you have to end a bad situation, if you can arrange an opportunity to try a few, do so. My favorites are .357, and almost any 1911 variant in .45.(I happen to do better with a .357 than the .45 - but mostly due to shoulder and hand damage from shooting too much) Get something you can shoot comfortably and accurately. And know the laws in your area regarding using deadly force.

[gunner357]

For home, 357 magnum or 44 magnum. For any type of carry I would go semi-auto. I have them all from .22 to .45 Auto. My Glock 21 (.45) is a fantastic gun. Accurate, light, and concealable if needed. I also like 9mms. If you do some research on this, you will find a lot of controversy about stopping power. Let me assure you that a 9mm loaded with hollow points is plenty for any two legged monster. If you need somthing for protection in the woods you may want to look at 357 or 44. With regards to exiting your target, hollow points are designed to mushroom on impact, when this occurs the bullet loses a lot of energy and velocity. Just my 2 cents.

[whompinxj]

SIG .45

[Daedalus454]

I agree with you that a shotgun is likely the best gun for home defense. I have a 12ga Mossberg 500 with nice wood stocks and an 18.5" barrel with a fiber-optic front sight. It's small enough that I can handle it easily, and it doesn't kick too bad. It came with a 27" or so barrel, so I can swap barrels and go skeet shooting. Highly recommended.

Not to disagree with 5-90, but I was told by a friend of mine who was a self-defense instructor NEVER to use buckshot in a self-defense shotgun. His experience was that if you shot someone in self defense and it went to court, when the prosecution explained that you were using buckshot, the jury was likely to think of cowboy movies and people being blown in half with a super-mega-powerful round. He recommended light birdshot, more than enough to take down a perp, even at the furthest distance in my apartment that I could conceivably need to shoot.

In the same vein, if you get a handgun for self defense, stay away from "Magnum" rounds. You can get a magnum gun if you like, but magnum rounds have WAY too much penetration to be safe to use in a home defense situation.

[srimes]

I agree with you that a shotgun is likely the best gun for home defense. I have a 12ga Mossberg 500 with nice wood stocks and an 18.5" barrel with a fiber-optic front sight. It's small enough that I can handle it easily, and it doesn't kick too bad. It came with a 27" or so barrel, so I can swap barrels and go skeet shooting. Highly recommended.

Not to disagree with 5-90, but I was told by a friend of mine who was a self-defense instructor NEVER to use buckshot in a self-defense shotgun. His experience was that if you shot someone in self defense and it went to court, when the prosecution explained that you were using buckshot, the jury was likely to think of cowboy movies and people being blown in half with a super-mega-powerful round. He recommended light birdshot, more than enough to take down a perp, even at the furthest distance in my apartment that I could conceivably need to shoot.

In the same vein, if you get a handgun for self defense, stay away from "Magnum" rounds. You can get a magnum gun if you like, but magnum rounds have WAY too much penetration to be safe to use in a home defense situation.

Birdshot is for birds and is not a suitable defense round, short of point-blank. This has be examend and proven, hopefully someone here has a good link.

[kujito]

1) Revolvers don't jam.

2) Shotguns are easy to hit the target with @ close range.

3) Try before you buy. If you can't handle it, it's worthless.

4) Check the laws in your state. We have a "Make my day" law in CO. If you come into my house unwanted, you're not getting out!

[5-90]

I agree with you that a shotgun is likely the best gun for home defense. I have a 12ga Mossberg 500 with nice wood stocks and an 18.5" barrel with a fiber-optic front sight. It's small enough that I can handle it easily, and it doesn't kick too bad. It came with a 27" or so barrel, so I can swap barrels and go skeet shooting. Highly recommended.

Not to disagree with 5-90, but I was told by a friend of mine who was a self-defense instructor NEVER to use buckshot in a self-defense shotgun. His experience was that if you shot someone in self defense and it went to court, when the prosecution explained that you were using buckshot, the jury was likely to think of cowboy movies and people being blown in half with a super-mega-powerful round. He recommended light birdshot, more than enough to take down a perp, even at the furthest distance in my apartment that I could conceivably need to shoot.

In the same vein, if you get a handgun for self defense, stay away from "Magnum" rounds. You can get a magnum gun if you like, but magnum rounds have WAY too much penetration to be safe to use in a home defense situation.

Which is why #4 buck is suggested - not only does it reduce the likelihood of overpenentration, but it is a "light" buckshot.

Birdshot is, as mentioned, exactly that. Ever hear of "poacher's bottom?" It's a non-lethal (and quite embarassing...) condition caused by the use of buckshot in defense of game.

When you come right down to it, you're using a firearm because you are in fear for your life, and you are meeting potentially lethal force with potentially lethal force. If the risk to your person is not potentially lethal, you're likely to go up yourself for ADW when you escalate to a firearm. Google "force continuum" (you should find something with that) to see where I'm going with this. It is proper to meet a level of force with the same level of force or one level higher - anything more than that constitutes unlawful assault.

Same reason you don't do "warning shots" - if you have time or ability to fire a warning shot, the escalation to lethal force is unwarranted and you now have all sorts of legal headaches you don't want. And you don't shoot to "disable the weapon" - you're shooting to "disable the attacker" - which means aim for centre of mass and shoot to kill. Not to "wound" or "disable" - you can do that with any lesser force. Once a firearm has been pulled in defense, the only decision left to make is "when" - you have already decided that someone needs to die. Therefore, presenting a firearm in your defense is not an easy thing to do - be prepared.

For more information on the use of force in self-defense, I suggest you Google <Massad Ayoob> (he's been an expert witness for a couple dozen years, runs Lethal Force Institute, and I think he's an ex-cop) and read what he's got to day. He's also got regular columns in a few gun rags on force in self-defense, so you may want to pick some of those up as well.

Using a firearm in self-defense requires a great deal more than "which one should I get" - but that's what most people start with, and many of them don't get past that. Fortunately, most people who are able to don't end up having to shoot anyone...

[FlexdXJ]

I vote Glock regardless of caliber(glock 22,9mm,357,40cal)
Second would be a springfield xd model.

I used to have a smith & wesson sigma 9mm that retails for about $300 and all around it wasnt a bad gun I wouldn't trust it as my primary self/home defense gun.Its just too damn bad I can't fit my SKS in my holster!

Since you're new to handguns and not knowing what your physical characteristics are I'd go with a 9mm because its easier to handle than say a 357 or 45cal.
If this is gonna be your "house" gun you want to minimize the chance of the round(s) going through walls and hitting neighbors or your family as they sleep in the next room..Whats wrong with a good defense shotgun?You have the option of loading a couple of "birdshot" shells then a couple of 00 buck and lastly a deer slug.If you go through the first four shells and they are still comming the deer slug will stop anyone!!!Not to mention that just the famous sound of a shotgun being racked is a huge deterrent in itself!!!

Ammo is cheaper for a 9mm than most other calibers too.s
Depending on the laws in your state you can buy(gun sometimes already comes with)Hi capacity magazines.Someone would have to be in full body armor to keep comming at you when you have put 15 rounds in them.

I recommend buddying up with someone that is into guns(and isn't a poser)and spend some time on the various gun forums on the net.
Well thats my take on it I'm sure someone will disagree....talking about gun size is like starting a debate about politics...lol


x2 on the XD. I have shot the .45 it handles really nice. thought it would be a beast to fire. not too bad. i would say use that as personal protection.

[Mudderoy]

I agree with you that a shotgun is likely the best gun for home defense. I have a 12ga Mossberg 500 with nice wood stocks and an 18.5" barrel with a fiber-optic front sight. It's small enough that I can handle it easily, and it doesn't kick too bad. It came with a 27" or so barrel, so I can swap barrels and go skeet shooting. Highly recommended.

Not to disagree with 5-90, but I was told by a friend of mine who was a self-defense instructor NEVER to use buckshot in a self-defense shotgun. His experience was that if you shot someone in self defense and it went to court, when the prosecution explained that you were using buckshot, the jury was likely to think of cowboy movies and people being blown in half with a super-mega-powerful round. He recommended light birdshot, more than enough to take down a perp, even at the furthest distance in my apartment that I could conceivably need to shoot.

In the same vein, if you get a handgun for self defense, stay away from "Magnum" rounds. You can get a magnum gun if you like, but magnum rounds have WAY too much penetration to be safe to use in a home defense situation.

This is good information, however I think it depends on what part of the country you live in. In Texas I can use deadly force to stop anyone anywhere (in Texas) that is committing a felony. I have no doubt that what you are saying is correct for California.

[ECKSJAY]

Not to disagree with 5-90, but I was told by a friend of mine who was a self-defense instructor NEVER to use buckshot in a self-defense shotgun. His experience was that if you shot someone in self defense and it went to court, when the prosecution explained that you were using buckshot, the jury was likely to think of cowboy movies and people being blown in half with a super-mega-powerful round. He recommended light birdshot, more than enough to take down a perp, even at the furthest distance in my apartment that I could conceivably need to shoot.

Your friend is an idiot.

[gerroffroad.com]

I went with a Springfield XD 9mm for my first and I love it. I highly reccomend it. I think if you put a bullet of any caliber into a guy he is going to stop.....unless you guys have zombies out there.

The bigger the gun the harder it is to group repeat shots. JMHO. :)

Ever have a meth head try and get in your house? A 9mm is a joke. Our neighbor put 6 9mm rounds in a guy and he would not stop coming. His wife stopped him the a 12g Remington. I still have yet to buy a gun but we have 9 large dogs some of which are very scary looking and sounding, I knew of the neighbors intruder before he did because of the dogs barking and going nuts while the meth head was between our fences. I have yet to have a intruder in my yard when the dogs are out, and frankly Id like to keep them away and not let them get to the house where it may be to late.

[Mudderoy]

Ever have a meth head try and get in your house? A 9mm is a joke. Our neighbor put 6 9mm rounds in a guy and he would not stop coming. His wife stopped him the a 12g Remington. I still have yet to buy a gun but we have 9 large dogs some of which are very scary looking and sounding, I knew of the neighbors intruder before he did because of the dogs barking and going nuts while the meth head was between our fences. I have yet to have a intruder in my yard when the dogs are out, and frankly Id like to keep them away and not let them get to the house where it may be to late.


I'd be terrified enough just having to shoot someone. I can't imagine the feeling of hitting the target that many times and have it still move torwards you. Wait yes I can, zombie movies! lol

Wife with shotgun for the win! I wonder if she said "you wussy, get out of the way!" lol

[JNickel101]

x2 on the XD. I have shot the .45 it handles really nice. thought it would be a beast to fire. not too bad. i would say use that as personal protection.

x3, XD .40 cal - love it!

[Ralph]

Personally, for home defense, the shotgun is the preferred weapon. Do not use bird shot for home defense. It does not have the mass to penetrate deep enough to reliably stop an assailant. Here is a good link with plenty of information regarding different loads of shotgun ammunition for home defense use. I hope you find it helpful.
http://www.firearmstactical.com/briefs10.htm

[Stallacrew]

S&W pistols are crap. A small shotgun would be good with 4 shot in it. A .40 is plenty and a .45ACP is great. get a 10 mm if you really wanna be putting holes in people.

My preference would be a "snake charmer" shotgun. Given it is a single shot, but (mine) is also a 12 ga. so one shot would be plenty and if not, then I always have the 5 rounds sitting there on the stock.

Not trying to be cocky but we own a bullet company and have an indoor range with several different calibers in lots of guns. If I were looking for a pistol with very little experience/ knowledge I would find a range and shoot something to give you an idea. I would say "Come on down and shoot", but I don't know you and you're a little far away. Not saying you are a bad person, but personally I dont know you.

Good luck finding a gun, as far as brands go, I would say a Springfield XD an auto, or a Taurus "Judge" otherwise......it's a .45 cowboy (not ACP) and also .410 shotgun pistol. It's available in 4" and 6" barrel I do believe ( worked at Academy Sports in the Huning and Fishing Section a while ago).

Check out our ammo, it's just as good of stuff as, but just doesnt cost as much as "big name" and it's unconditionally guarenteed.

ROZE is Zero bullet's retail name rather than the distributor name. (ROZE=ZERO rearranged)

http://www.rozedist.com/



EDIT: I'm not trying to SPAM, but you gotta buy ammo from someone, right?

[Capt. Nemo]

Just a word on home invasions:

*About 75% are during the day during normal business hours.
*An intruder is typically in and out of a home in less than 5 minutes.
*The overwhelming majority of home invasions are done by males.
*The majority of home invasions are also drug related.
*Home invasions at night with occupants in the home are the most dangerous, but also the rarest.

Being that the majority of home invasions are drug related, most intruders are either hopped up on drugs, coming off a high, or are so desperate that they don't feel immediate pain - buy a weapon that will stop someone immediately. A 9mm will do nothing to an intruder hopped up on PCP (one of the most dangerous drug users to encounter).

Also, buy a weapon that requires the least amount of thinking and skill to use. Under stress, even the most dedicated marksman can miss, cause a malfunction, etc. Sometime after you purchase your gun, try this in a controlled environment - sprint 50 yards, do 50 push-ups and 20 jumping jacks - then give yourself 3 seconds to draw your weapon, acquire your sights on target and get a guaranteed shot off from 7-15 yards. This is the closest thing you'll come to shooting under stress.

For home defense, nothing beats a shotgun. Easily manipulated, doesn't require a lot of accuracy- AND - EVERYONE recognizes the rack of a shotgun - even the most hopped up drug user.

[ECKSJAY]

Where does everyone get the 'doesn't require aiming/accuracy' with reference to shotguns?

Typical spread is 1" for every 1yd of travel. :confused:

I like my shotguns for CQB because I can put 27 holes (#4 BUCK) into a zombie with each shell. I've only got about 9" spread to work with, so I'm getting a kick outta these replies.

[Fourxfour79]

I know a farmer guy who takes apart some of his shells and takes the shot out of it and replaces it with rock salt and then closes the shell back up and uses candle wax to keep it closed.Less than lethal and the bad guy swears he got shot with lead!!!Keeps the dirtbike and atv crowd out of his fields.....

IMHO this is a bad idea... Although creative, interesting, and possibly effective for keeping people out of fields, it leaves a witness who will testify that you only wanted to torture him and yada yada yada and next thing you know some jackass will be out robbing another house (robbers tipically perfer non wepon yeilding homes btw) and you will be in jail. When you have made the decision to point the weapon at another human being, the end result must be with a conviction that it was either him or you.:skull1:

Second thought on leaving a witness is not to simply pump two or three rounds into him/her (i'm equal opportunity even on scum bags) but to empty the mag (provided there are no further immediate threats). That way, should there be any question of your mental state, you were unbalanced due to a precieved threat of real bodily harm or death. Remember that phrase "I WAS AFRAID FOR MY LIFE!!!" "I SWEAR I SAW HIM REACH FOR SOMETHING AFTER I RELOADED!" Take no pity in realizing how you felt in this situation. You will always be traumatized and later filled with doubt (for most people anyway). There will never be any doubt when I have someone in my cross hairs, nore remorse. :patriot:

And just a word on caliber selection: nothing smaller than 9mm should every be carried. 9mm is considered only moderatly effective. A person can still function after being shot, even several times, considering psycological factors (rage, fear, pain/adrenalin, fight/flight response) and urban phramacological usage.