Dems and Guns, Interesting Rant!

[bjoehandley]

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2008/4/21/19133/5152/392/496931

[lancey3]

Two words: Ron Paul

[scottmcneal]

Have gun will fight.. No gun, we bend over and take it.. Ron paul, then you just helped the wrong person into office and it is not ron paul...

[garr]

Have gun will fight.. No gun, we bend over and take it.. Ron paul, then you just helped the wrong person into office and it is not ron paul...

+1, A vote for RP is one less vote for McCain.
And you don't even want to think about where our 2nd amd right will go if Obama gets elected.
Never forget the 3rd party little weasel (Perot) that got Clinton elected stealing 17% of the vote from Bush 1, & Never forget the 94 AWB that it brought us.

[ECKSJAY]

Have gun will fight.. No gun, we bend over and take it.. Ron paul, then you just helped the wrong person into office and it is not ron paul...

Wouldn't be a problem if everyone who said that cast a vote for Dr. Paul. ;) Too many sheep out there afraid of personal responsibility. :gag:

http://www.lizmichael.com/rooftops.jpg

[ECKSJAY]

+1, A vote for RP is one less vote for McCain.
And you don't even want to think about where our 2nd amd right will go if Obama gets elected.
Never forget the 3rd party little weasel (Perot) that got Clinton elected stealing 17% of the vote from Bush 1, & Never forget the 94 AWB that it brought us.

Was there a 3rd Party 'vote-grabber' in every NY election, too? :)

[WrenchMonkey]

Have gun will fight.. No gun, we bend over and take it...

Who are you kidding? We bend over and take it regularly...

Some of us like it enough to vote for more.

The rest of us hate it enough to bitch n complain about it.

Neither changes much...

Robert

[Mudderoy]

Don't make Ron Paul the Ralf Nader of the republican party.

If you are concerned about gun rights, make sure you renew your NRA membership. Write or call your political leaders. Talk to your friends about guns and why we need them. (Give them a copy of "Red Dawn", or show videos of Katrina)

Make sure they understand we need guns for defense and not that whiny hunting excuse. Hunting is great, but that excuse we'll wind up with no pistols, full length shotguns, and bolt action rifles. (the last one makes a good sniper rifle)

The supreme court will be hearing a case on the out and out gun ban in Washington DC soon. I suspect they will uphold the 2nd amendment, and it will become a little more difficult for the people to take the guns away.

My next gun will be the Remington 700 .308 with a bipod mount. :D

[RichP]

The second amendment is only scary to those politicians who have an agenda or long term plan that has no place in it for for citizens being able to say no and back it up with the appropriate hardware.

[Ironmen77]

x2
"The only good bureaucrat is one with a pistol at his head. Put it in his hand and it's good-by to the Bill of Rights." [H.L. Mencken]

[yossarian19]

Are you guys for real? You think a bunch of half-organized gun owners are going to topple the government if need be? Romantic, but I don't think so...
I support 2nd ammendment rights - not to the extreme that some do, but I don't think guns are responsible for as much death as the people behind them are...
But seriously - you think YOUR GUN is protecting democracy? a joke...

[Ironmen77]

Are you guys for real? You think a bunch of half-organized gun owners are going to topple the government if need be? Romantic, but I don't think so...
Why not?
I support 2nd ammendment rights - not to the extreme that some do, but I don't think guns are responsible for as much death as the people behind them are...
Do you support the other nine, but not to the extreme?
But seriously - you think YOUR GUN is protecting democracy? a joke...
I think MY GUN is proof of what little freedom we have left.

[yossarian19]

OK - Fair enough. Montanans and other gun owners might save democracy at some point. I've got my doubts but then, Vietnam Afghanistan Iraq Korea etc all seemed like sure bets for the US of A, so why not on our own soil?
I support what I support - it happens that I think the right for a citizen to own fully automatic weapons is irresponsible for the state to grant. I don't trust that they will be used only in cases of defending liberty in the face of government tyranny.
Neither do I think that the guns themselves are the whole problem.

I read and enjoyed and largely agreed with the OPs link. I still doubt the reasonability of fully automatic weapons, TEC-9 machine pistols (easy targets, with the 32 round magazine...) etc being on the street.

Are you guys for real? You think a bunch of half-organized gun owners are going to topple the government if need be? Romantic, but I don't think so...
Why not?
I support 2nd ammendment rights - not to the extreme that some do, but I don't think guns are responsible for as much death as the people behind them are...
Do you support the other nine, but not to the extreme?
But seriously - you think YOUR GUN is protecting democracy? a joke...
I think MY GUN is proof of what little freedom we have left.

[srimes]

Are you guys for real? You think a bunch of half-organized gun owners are going to topple the government if need be? Romantic, but I don't think so...
I support 2nd ammendment rights - not to the extreme that some do, but I don't think guns are responsible for as much death as the people behind them are...
But seriously - you think YOUR GUN is protecting democracy? a joke...

I think my gun ensures democracy they same way my vote does. You don't think that YOUR VOTE matters, do you? On a practical level, no, it doesn't. But because basically everyone has one, votes matter. And when basically everyone has or has access to a gun, it does matter.

Sure, the military can wipe out everyone in our country. But what's the point of that? Dictators take over and rule countries in order to rule the country, including it's people. If the government decided it only wanted the land and resourses and not the people we'd be screwed. But you can't run a dictatorship when the people don't want it AND every other house is armed.

[garr]

Don't make Ron Paul the Ralf Nader of the republican party.

If you are concerned about gun rights, make sure you renew your NRA membership. Write or call your political leaders. Talk to your friends about guns and why we need them. (Give them a copy of "Red Dawn", or show videos of Katrina)

Make sure they understand we need guns for defense and not that whiny hunting excuse. Hunting is great, but that excuse we'll wind up with no pistols, full length shotguns, and bolt action rifles. (the last one makes a good sniper rifle)

The supreme court will be hearing a case on the out and out gun ban in Washington DC soon. I suspect they will uphold the 2nd amendment, and it will become a little more difficult for the people to take the guns away.

My next gun will be the Remington 700 .308 with a bipod mount. :D

I here the ruling will be out this week!!

[Mudderoy]

I here the ruling will be out this week!!

Hey thanks for the update. I hadn't heard anything about it on the news lately. Crossing everything I have to cross...

[RichP]

Are you guys for real? You think a bunch of half-organized gun owners are going to topple the government if need be? Romantic, but I don't think so...
I support 2nd ammendment rights - not to the extreme that some do, but I don't think guns are responsible for as much death as the people behind them are...
But seriously - you think YOUR GUN is protecting democracy? a joke...

Hmm, I have over 25 years in the military, retired, the 200,000 vietnam vets are getting up there in years but a new flock of trained and battle tested soldiers are coming home. Will my sporting rifles and handguns allow me to 'topple the government' nope, but they will allow me to boot strap myself up to the weapons needed if that should ever become the case. During WWII the allies dropped single shot .45's that the resistance used to boot strap themselves up to the same weapons the germans had, they did a pretty good job don't you think...
Back when the second was written every body had the same weapons, civilians and military, to my way of thinking the limits on types of weapons allowed to be owned is against the 2nd's intent and lets be up front about it, the purpose of the 2nd is to throw the bums out if elections don't work.

[alex22]

I support what I support - it happens that I think the right for a citizen to own fully automatic weapons is irresponsible for the state to grant. I don't trust that they will be used only in cases of defending liberty in the face of government tyranny.

I read and enjoyed and largely agreed with the OPs link. I still doubt the reasonability of fully automatic weapons, TEC-9 machine pistols (easy targets, with the 32 round magazine...) etc being on the street.

There are a whole lot of hoops to jump through and taxes and fees to pay for a citizen to legaly own an automatic firearm.
restricting every other type of firearm is rediculous. My brother lives in Arizona, his M14 and his shotgun would not be legal here in CT because they are classified as assault weapons here. damn these state laws.

~Alex

[Mudderoy]

Hmm, I have over 25 years in the military, retired, the 200,000 vietnam vets are getting up there in years but a new flock of trained and battle tested soldiers are coming home. Will my sporting rifles and handguns allow me to 'topple the government' nope, but they will allow me to boot strap myself up to the weapons needed if that should ever become the case. During WWII the allies dropped single shot .45's that the resistance used to boot strap themselves up to the same weapons the germans had, they did a pretty good job don't you think...
Back when the second was written every body had the same weapons, civilians and military, to my way of thinking the limits on types of weapons allowed to be owned is against the 2nd's intent and lets be up front about it, the purpose of the 2nd is to throw the bums out if elections don't work.

Personally I think we should be able to have any weapon the military has. I think it would be perfectably acceptable that you must be trained prior to being able to own said weapon, or weapons system.

I mean if an 18 year old kid in the military is handed a grenade launcher how is that any worse from the Jeep enthusist next door having one? :explosion

lol ok, ok, the 18 year old kid is on a base, or in another country, I'll give you that.

What would I need a grenade launcher for? Silly question, fishing!

[ECKSJAY]

Personally I think we should be able to have any weapon the military has. I think it would be perfectably acceptable that you must be trained prior to being able to own said weapon, or weapons system.

I mean if an 18 year old kid in the military is handed a grenade launcher how is that any worse from the Jeep enthusist next door having one? :explosion

lol ok, ok, the 18 year old kid is on a base, or in another country, I'll give you that.

What would I need a grenade launcher for? Silly question, fishing!

There's a saying that has something to the effect of: "If a government outlaws something it's probably worth having." ;)

[Mudderoy]

There are a whole lot of hoops to jump through and taxes and fees to pay for a citizen to legaly own an automatic firearm.
restricting every other type of firearm is rediculous. My brother lives in Arizona, his M14 and his shotgun would not be legal here in CT because they are classified as assault weapons here. damn these state laws.

~Alex

I was poking around the Internet one day and found a description of how to turn a semi-automatic AK47 into a fully automatic AK47 with a twist tie from a loaf of bread.

Cool thing is you can eat the bread while you wait for the AK47 to cool off every 1000 rounds or so.

[alex22]

there are also gigs that will let you incert a pin into the fireing mechanisim of just about any rifle out there. You can also buy demilled machine guns and remachine them into fully functioning firearms, 50 cal's, M60's MG-34's and such.

The internet sure is a great place:angel:

~Alex

[RTicUL8]

McCain is definitly not my first choice, but at this point I will be voting for him.

Yes, I agree more with Ron Paul than I do McCain, but RP doesn't have a chance in hell of getting the majority of votes.
Please don't fool yourself into thinking that he will.

It reminds me of the '92 election when I wasted my vote on Ross Perot - and ended up with Clinton.

I'm not going to make that mistake again!


.

[grnkpr]

Just wondering why everyone seems to be so short sighted when it comes to the gun issue. Republican fear mongering to distract the voters who are hurt the most by their economic policies or lack thereof. Enadangered species middle class, do you think this is by accident or design? Wake up people, your guns are safe.......

[ECKSJAY]

Wake up people, your guns are safe.......

It's the principle that matters. ;)

[JohnX]

...your guns are safe.......
Yeah, mine are....because nobody will ever take them from me. My problem is with the guns I am not allowed to own??? Thats why we continue to fight for gun rights.

So what makes an automatic assault rifle illegal in one state and common place in another??

[ECKSJAY]

So what makes an automatic assault rifle illegal in one state and common place in another??

One downfall of the 14th Amendment, sadly. ;)

[Mudderoy]

Yeah, mine are....because nobody will ever take them from me. My problem is with the guns I am not allowed to own??? Thats why we continue to fight for gun rights.

So what makes an automatic assault rifle illegal in one state and common place in another??

Government officials that think people aren't stupid and have to have things taken away from them. Generally non-democrats.

[Mudderoy]

Just wondering why everyone seems to be so short sighted when it comes to the gun issue. Republican fear mongering to distract the voters who are hurt the most by their economic policies or lack thereof. Enadangered species middle class, do you think this is by accident or design? Wake up people, your guns are safe.......

Ok I wrote a 7200 word essay in response to this post, but deleted it.
(Yes, yes, you are all welcome)

I thought I better be clear on one thing...

What is the LONG SIGHTED view of the gun issue?

[grnkpr]

You're right no one will ever take your guns, but what good are they if you can't afford the ammo for them or let alone buy them, have you priced a full auto weapon lately? Even communist ammo is getting pricey, as for where you are allowed to have these weapons, states rights, Cali is not the place for you.

[Boatwrench]

Random thoughts from all over this topic:

Ignorance is a wonderful thing, I have no idea what 94 AWB is?

Don't forget independent candidate Anderson in 1980, he was probably the closest to be viable for the white house, Nader and Perot were just diversions.

The private ownership of firearms is what keeps the US from being more of a police state than it already is, the "authorities" do not know what's out there and who has it. Registration is the 1st step towards confiscation (think about what the Red Chinesse did with the opium dens in the early 1950s). Bomb sniffing dogs can detect one round, so if you think an underground militia can hide for long, guess again.

However it will be REAL interesting & scary to see what the military does IF it should come down to a civil war over weapon ownership rights. "Protect and defend The Constitution" -or- "obey the orders of the President"

It has beeen less than 15 years since the last major genocide (Rhawanda) and the scary thing is, it could probably happen here in the US.

So let's all get to Moab and have one heck of a party before the next election tears this country apart.

[JohnX]

Random thoughts from all over this topic:

Ignorance is a wonderful thing, I have no idea what 94 AWB is?

1994 Assault Weapons Ban.

[JohnX]

You're right no one will ever take your guns, but what good are they if you can't afford the ammo for them or let alone buy them, have you priced a full auto weapon lately?
You ain't just whistling dixie. When they jack the price of ammo out of range from the common man, then most will turn to black market ammo or reload there own (possibly illegally). As for the price of a full auto....I could buy one cheaper here than anywhere else...but it won't be legal :(

... Cali is not the place for you.
I know, it just happens to be where I got stuck for now. I will not live here forever though....and the gun restrictions are a PRIMARY reason for that.

[alex22]

Speaking of ammo prices, why not stock up while its still cheap.

http://gunbroker.com/Auction/Browse.asp?Cat=3017

[RichP]

Speaking of ammo prices, why not stock up while its still cheap.

http://gunbroker.com/Auction/Browse.asp?Cat=3017

They are a bit on the pricey side for their 45 acp stuff...