So now it comes down to McCain, Obama & Paul. . .

[SBrad001]

So who you voting for and why?

Me, well I'm a Paultard. Personally, I like anyone that says the federal government is too big and needs to get it's nose out from under my tent flap.
Paul's against the Patriot Act, wants our troops home believes that states should have the right to decide many of their own issues. What's not to like? Well aside from him being crazier than a fruit bat. :D

[ECKSJAY]

If freedom from control is crazy, hand me a straight jacket.

Osama wouldn't make it past March, I bet.

[oo7ravisXJ]

Is Paul running as an independent, or do you plan just to write his name in?

[SBrad001]

If freedom from control is crazy, hand me a straight jacket.

Osama wouldn't make it past March, I bet.

Well, I think that the vast majority of Americans(democrat or republican) are so brainwashed in to being okay with how much governmental control we live with today that anyone who points out how far we've strayed from the original intent of our founding fathers and the government that they set in place, that anyone point that out is automatically branded a looney.

It's really sad I think. But that also why we need a new Revolution.

I think Hillary is counting on Obama getting whacked. . . .

[oo7ravisXJ]

I think Hillary is counting on Obama getting whacked. . . .
hahaha

[SBrad001]

Is Paul running as an independent, or do you plan just to write his name in?

If he's not on the ballot in the state I'll be in, then I'll write his name in.

[drifto77]

some other nut job...
Guess iam throwing away my vote this time.

iam writing in Mickey Mouse.
AKA ... see below
































































Ron Paul

[Timber]

With digital ballots, is it even possible to enter a name not already on the ticket?

[TRNDRVR]

Their are just too many pissed of americans that had enough of the Republicans for a while.I like the above quote.....I'll vote for anyone just to get the republicans out of office. ANYONE!


Once again,

:party: :party: :party: :party: :party:

[Mudderoy]

Ron Paul lost me when he said he would pull out the troops immediately. Frankly I labeled him a nut for making such a statement. Even the dems understand that we can't just pull out now. Ronny wouldn't be able to either, he was just trying to appeal to all the Bush haters.

I'll never vote for a group of people that think the solution to everything is to tax the hell out of people, and at the same time tell you they are only going to tax the rich.

It pisses me off that I don't have as much money as someone else, but I don't expect the government to act as Robin Hood.

So Osama Obama, no way. Hillbilly? Certainly not. I've had enough of the Clinton's to last me 10 life times.

The dems chances are better this time, Kerry was a horror. I think McCain will win it because he will be viewed as a tough leader who will keep the country safe. Osama Obama will be viewed as a naive kid that thinks that talking to dictators and terrorists will make any difference. Russian's? Sure, Terrorists, no.

The dems only chance is a Osama Obama/Hillbilly ticket. We may see that happen in the next few days.

[TRNDRVR]

Oh yeah, I almost forgot.....

http://www.clipartof.com/images/emoticons/xsmall2/1974_eating_popcorn.gif

Carry on!

[NickThePyro]

McCain but id still take Rudy Guilanni(sp?) over any of them. Clinton views seem to communist to me and I feel that Obama wont last in office or will get killed.

[Matthew Currie]

I put "some other nut job" on the poll, just to be contrary. Maybe I'll write in Howard Dean.

Basically, since I live in Vermont, with its one electoral vote, the election is over for us and it doesn't matter whom I waste my vote on. I'll probably vote for Obama as the least objectionable candidate, so that when McCain wins the election and starts ***ing up the country I will have an excuse to complain.

[Mudderoy]

McCain but id still take Rudy Guilanni(sp?) over any of them. Clinton views seem to communist to me and I feel that Obama wont last in office or will get killed.

McCain might as well, although his would be of natural causes.

You know I hate to think this might be true, but when Hillbilly started talking about Bobby Kennedy's assassination, I am now wondering if she was trying to send a signal to some crazed stalker/fan/tree hugger. ;)

[NickThePyro]

McCain might as well, although his would be of natural causes.

You know I hate to think this might be true, but when Hillbilly started talking about Bobby Kennedy's assassination, I am now wondering if she was trying to send a signal to some crazed stalker/fan/tree hugger. ;)Yeah, he is a little bit of a geezer to say the least, I just wish McCain was more to the right because his views are kinda lopsided at times :(

[Mudderoy]

Yeah, he is a little bit of a geezer to say the least, I just wish McCain was more to the right because his views are kinda lopsided at times :(

lol, I agree. Like I have said before, no matter who wins there will be a Democrat in the Whorehouse this time. :( (LOL! Spell checker suggested Whorehouse for WhiteHouse, so I picked it!)

McCain is just the least Democrat I can pick.

[JeeperDan]

I'd vote for Ron Paul, but he doesn't have a chance. I'm afraid he'll do to the Repulicans what Nader did for the Dems in '00.

[ehall]

I agree with most of the libertarian platform, but their foreign policy has always scared the shit out of me. For one thing the idea that we can trade with "whoever" is pretty naive and assumes that they want to trade with us instead of conquering us. Second, you have to defend your allies if you want them to be around and help defend you, and if you want to have reliable trade partners.

I mean, apply the Ron Paul test to WWII for example: We would not have invaded Europe (it was Japan that attacked us not Germany), leaving England alone to fight the Nazi machine. If by chance the Soviets had defeated the Nazis alone, then we'd have had communist rule across the whole continent. In either situation, we'd have lost Europe as a trading partner and ally, while either the Nazis or Soviets would work to expand their empire to our shores. This is what libertarian foreign policy looks like.

Anyway, the Republicans still have the best story on the rest of the libertarian agenda--limited government, power comes from the people, etc--so that's the way I'll vote. I'll be holding my nose a little though.

[NickThePyro]

lol, I agree. Like I have said before, no matter who wins there will be a Democrat in the Whorehouse this time. :( (LOL! Spell checker suggested Whorehouse for WhiteHouse, so I picked it!)

McCain is just the least Democrat I can pick.Yeah, it sucks there will be a jack ass in office(pun intended) and it sickens me. We pull out the war we are royaly XXXXed up the ass. Sorry for the profanity but its the truth!

[JNickel101]

Yes, lets jump on the bandwagon and blame Republicans for everything wrong in this country...:roflmao:

Everything from high gas prices, to global warming to the war....all caused by the vast right wing conspiracy machine! THE HORRORS!!!! LOL

Lets everyone write in Ron Paul. I want him to get elected and see the "I just pissed my pants" look on his face when he realizes what his new job is. It'd be like combining the Titanic, Hindenberg and Exxon-Valdez all in one large event. You REALLY think all of these things he claims to want to change would happen in 4 years? Maybe if we were under dictatorship rule...sure, maybe it might happen.

I do agree, too much power in the Fed Gov't right now - but it has to be a gradual change. States are not equipped or set up to operate with more power/independence now. And its Dems to blame for the Fed having too much power, not Reps.

And Obama/Osama isn't Clinton Lite. I think he's MUCH worse than she could ever hope to be.

Mike Huckabee 2012!!!

[ehall]

The states already run a huge amount of stuff as a result of 10th amendment separation of powers

The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people.

That is why the states are responsible for stuff like education, welfare, driver's licenses, etc., while the fed can only offer assistance funding and tie demands to that funding.

If the Dems get the white house and keep congress, the 10th amendment will go out the window in a power grab like we have not seen since FDR. They will seize control of healthcare industry, without an amendment granting them authority, that is something they have already promised.

[ECKSJAY]

You REALLY think all of these things he claims to want to change would happen in 4 years?

It's easy to ridicule that which you do not understand, isn't it? ;) If you had any clue you'd know that he had stated HIMSELF that it would be the basis for change and it would take a long time to get going. You think Osamanig's 'hope and change' would happen in 4 years? Do you really think ANYONE'S agenda is going to happen 'overnight'? I don't, save for a bloody coup. ;)

[RichP]

I think Hillary is counting on Obama getting whacked. . . .

With the number of slick willys people that died counting may be the wrong word.

[smcdonaldaz]

Well, I think that the vast majority of Americans(democrat or republican) are so brainwashed in to being okay with how much governmental control we live with today that anyone who points out how far we've strayed from the original intent of our founding fathers and the government that they set in place, that anyone point that out is automatically branded a looney.

It's really sad I think. But that also why we need a new Revolution.

I think Hillary is counting on Obama getting whacked. . . .

If Obama makes Hillary his VP, You can count on him getting whacked. The Clintons have a long trail of bodies behind them.

[buschwhaked]

If Obama makes Hillary his VP, You can count on him getting whacked. The Clintons have a long trail of bodies behind them.

CNN suggested last night that if Hillary became Barak's VP he would need to hire a food taster.

[smcdonaldaz]

The states already run a huge amount of stuff as a result of 10th amendment separation of powers



That is why the states are responsible for stuff like education, welfare, driver's licenses, etc., while the fed can only offer assistance funding and tie demands to that funding.

If the Dems get the white house and keep congress, the 10th amendment will go out the window in a power grab like we have not seen since FDR. They will seize control of healthcare industry, without an amendment granting them authority, that is something they have already promised.

If only the 10th would be enforced! It was tossed a long time ago under the inter-state commerce clause. If there is the slightest hint of something being interstate, the feds take control. Bastages!

[.40CalPatriot]

McCain but id still take Rudy Guilanni(sp?) over any of them. Clinton views seem to communist to me and I feel that Obama wont last in office or will get killed.

GOOD MAN. I couldnt agree with you anymore!

[SBrad001]

You guys that like Guilanni are farking insane. Seriously, the guy's worse than either of the Clintons and just as much of a socialist. AND how many wives have divorced his sorry ass for cheating on them? Not mention using NY city funds to pay for his last affair. For crying out loud, his own daughter won't support him. I think that says loads about his character.

[Mudderoy]

You guys that like Guilanni are farking insane. Seriously, the guys is worst than either of the Clintons and just as much of a socialist. AND how many wives have divorced his sorry ass for cheating on them? Not mention using NY city funds to pay for his last affair. For crying out loud, his own daughter won't support him. I think that says loads about his character.


Def don't want the Guilanni as Pres, however if Arnold Schwarzenegger was running I'd vote for him! Can you imagine what the comedians would do for the 4 years he was president! Pres Bush was pretty damned funny "nuclear", Schwarzenegger would have to have subtitles during his speeches! lol

[MT Mike]

I'd vote for Ron Paul, but he doesn't have a chance. I'm afraid he'll do to the Repulicans what Nader did for the Dems in '00.

Ron Paul = Ross Perot.

Before the Paulheads start flaming, I honestly don't think that enough people will write in Ron Paul or vote for him, mostly thanks to the national media's lack of face time with him. A vast majority of people in this country vote based on what they see on the idiot box, and Ron Paul hasn't gotten the coverage that he deserves.

I'm voting for McCain because he is the lesser of the 2 evils.

[JNickel101]

It's easy to ridicule that which you do not understand, isn't it? ;) If you had any clue you'd know that he had stated HIMSELF that it would be the basis for change and it would take a long time to get going. You think Osamanig's 'hope and change' would happen in 4 years? Do you really think ANYONE'S agenda is going to happen 'overnight'? I don't, save for a bloody coup. ;)

I understand plenty. What I dont listen to is some lunatic who's 4 years would be worth less than Jimmy Carter's. I could care less what Ron Paul has to say, because even if he served 20 years, he wouldnt get shit done.

This country is headed in a particular direction - save for a few detours here and there, its going to stay in that direction.

I just think its funny/ironic how many people support this guy and think he'd do any better than a "traditional" candidate. I think he's running b/c he likes seeing his name in the news. If he actually got elected, he'd shit his pants. Its almost as funny as the people who support Mr. "I say the word change, but my entire campaign is empty/retarded/ass-backwards".

[.40CalPatriot]

You guys that like Guilanni are farking insane. Seriously, the guy's worse than either of the Clintons and just as much of a socialist. AND how many wives have divorced his sorry ass for cheating on them? Not mention using NY city funds to pay for his last affair. For crying out loud, his own daughter won't support him. I think that says loads about his character.

At least his wives had the balls to divorce him for cheating on them( cough cough hillary) but then again i think she does have some. but she only kept bill to have a chance at the election

[JNickel101]

You guys that like Guilanni are farking insane. Seriously, the guy's worse than either of the Clintons and just as much of a socialist. AND how many wives have divorced his sorry ass for cheating on them? Not mention using NY city funds to pay for his last affair. For crying out loud, his own daughter won't support him. I think that says loads about his character.

Agreed!

[SBrad001]

McCain lost my vote for sure when he said, ". . . worry that a more generous and expansive GI Bill would create an incentive for troops to get out of the military and go to college."

Bush's cut funding to the VA, McCain is bowing to pressure to limit future VA benefits to vets. Why in the hell do I want to elect someone that doesn't want our vets to make a good life for themselves after their enlistment? You can volunteer and sacrifice your life for this country but we won't show our appreciation of your service.. . .

[JNickel101]

I dunno...its hard to debate that - but no one would be BETTER for the troops than McCain. I shudder to think what Billary or Osama would do to the military....

I doubt anyone, including himself, knows what Ron Paul would do with the military....

[SBrad001]

I dunno...its hard to debate that - but no one would be BETTER for the troops than McCain. I shudder to think what Billary or Osama would do to the military....

I doubt anyone, including himself, knows what Ron Paul would do with the military....

Are you sure about that?

Reagan gutted the VA, Clinton sunk billions of dollars into the VA building it back up. Bush gutted the VA and now it looks like McCain will continue on that same path of limiting VA benefits.

I'm really not crazy for Democrats but I can honestly say that they've done pretty well at taking care of vets.

[ehall]

McCain is a vet and has sons in the service. The idea that he is going to bufu the VA is just ridiculous.

[JNickel101]

If VA is the only basis you're going off of....well, ok....

Clinton cut the defense budget more than any president in US history. He also utilized more troops for more military operations than any president. Spread us very thin. I'd say launching 100 cruise missiles into Afghanistan @ $1 millon each, to take eyes off of the Lewinski scandal shows misuse of the military....dont forget the epic failure that was Somalia...

[JNickel101]

Also, I know my education benefits have gone UP since Bush took office. The military used to only pay 75% tuition assistance for active duty (under Clinton), now its 100%. They also have expanded the amount you can use per year, and the amount in my GI Bill has increased without me spending an extra cent. The AF now has expanded its efforts to educate the enlisted corps even more - you cant get promoted past E-7 anymore without at LEAST an Associates Degree, and its getting close to where they will require a Bachelors Degree.

You'd be surprised at the number of educational programs out there now for military members....

If Bush supposedly cut our education benefits, I sure havent seen it....its only gotten better since he took office, MUCH better than it ever was under Clinton.

[ehall]

Exactly. Democrats want to make the armed forces a social services program, and then demonize anybody who opposes it. As if McCain would gut veteran programs... it is to LOL

[SBrad001]

If VA is the only basis you're going off of....well, ok....

Clinton cut the defense budget more than any president in US history. He also utilized more troops for more military operations than any president. Spread us very thin. I'd say launching 100 cruise missiles into Afghanistan @ $1 millon each, to take eyes off of the Lewinski scandal shows misuse of the military....dont forget the epic failure that was Somalia...


I know, I was in the Marines at the same time frame you're talking about. I got less respect for him than you can shake a stick at.

[JNickel101]

:patriot:

[buschwhaked]

Also, I know my education benefits have gone UP since Bush took office. The military used to only pay 75% tuition assistance for active duty (under Clinton), now its 100%. They also have expanded the amount you can use per year, and the amount in my GI Bill has increased without me spending an extra cent. The AF now has expanded its efforts to educate the enlisted corps even more - you cant get promoted past E-7 anymore without at LEAST an Associates Degree, and its getting close to where they will require a Bachelors Degree.

You'd be surprised at the number of educational programs out there now for military members....

If Bush supposedly cut our education benefits, I sure havent seen it....its only gotten better since he took office, MUCH better than it ever was under Clinton.

The key here is "while you are in the service they cover it 100%." Now, things in the AF are different than the Army because, well frankly, you guys are spoiled. ;) I can tell you personally it's extremely difficult to go to college if you are in a combat unit in the Army. You spend 2/3rds of your time in Iraq, and the rest in the field or scraping for family time (if you have one, I'm not talking about parents). In the Army they have recently CUT the amount of college needed to get promoted. Whereas if you had a bachelors degree you were a shoe in for promotion, now you and the guy with only 50 hours are on the same boat. I thought about trying it while we were deployed, but the day I was going to sign up for classes we went into blackout (all outside communications shut down, usually lasting 24-56 hours), were back up for a day, and then back down again. It was like that the entire deployment.

Now, if I were only gone 6 months at a time and didn't live on a spec of sand for a base in the middle of Baghdad, sure, it wouldn't be a problem.

This new GI bill is a really exciting oppurtunity for me, if it passes. I'm leaving the military in 6 months and in looking at the current GI bill it will not cover my education. But in the end, I'm not totally dependant on it to get my education and I want it badly enough, I'll figure something.

McCain is not getting my vote for this reason and a myriad of other things. He may work great for the Air Force, but his future policies and Bush's current policies are brutalizing the Army.

[TRNDRVR]

no one would be BETTER for the troops than McCainhttp://www.clipartof.com/images/emoticons/xsmall2/1231_hysterically_laughing.gif

[JNickel101]

Please wise one, tell me who would be better....Osama? Billary? PAUL???

Go back to your train and popcorn.

[JNickel101]

The key here is "while you are in the service they cover it 100%." Now, things in the AF are different than the Army because, well frankly, you guys are spoiled. ;) I can tell you personally it's extremely difficult to go to college if you are in a combat unit in the Army. You spend 2/3rds of your time in Iraq, and the rest in the field or scraping for family time (if you have one, I'm not talking about parents). In the Army they have recently CUT the amount of college needed to get promoted. Whereas if you had a bachelors degree you were a shoe in for promotion, now you and the guy with only 50 hours are on the same boat. I thought about trying it while we were deployed, but the day I was going to sign up for classes we went into blackout (all outside communications shut down, usually lasting 24-56 hours), were back up for a day, and then back down again. It was like that the entire deployment.

Now, if I were only gone 6 months at a time and didn't live on a spec of sand for a base in the middle of Baghdad, sure, it wouldn't be a problem.

This new GI bill is a really exciting oppurtunity for me, if it passes. I'm leaving the military in 6 months and in looking at the current GI bill it will not cover my education. But in the end, I'm not totally dependant on it to get my education and I want it badly enough, I'll figure something.

McCain is not getting my vote for this reason and a myriad of other things. He may work great for the Air Force, but his future policies and Bush's current policies are brutalizing the Army.

I wouldnt blame the Commander in Chief for how deployments in the Army are run....

The Army's own leadership (CSM, CoS, SecArmy) are to blame for that. If it was the CiC's decision, we'd all be on 12-15 month deployments.

As of now, only a few of us in the AF are over here on 1 year deployments :D

[buschwhaked]

Yeah, my point wasn't that I have a problem with deployments. 15 months is a little long but a year only gives you about 8 hard months of combat because you spend the first 2 unpacking and getting your bearings and the last two are spent packing and training the FNG's. My point was, even at year long deployements, real college is difficult to impossible.

And I blame the CiC for starting the war in the first place, but thats already in a different thread.

Oh, BTW, I about flipped when I was over there reading the Star's and Stripes. They had an article about Airmen who were upset about lawncare maintanence being cut back and fresh towels not available in the gym's on air bases because of budget cuts as a result of the war in Iraq. Pansies...:)

[JNickel101]

I'm reading Dr. Paul the gynecologist's website now...wow....

Talk about a misleading, lie filled site....

I'm glad I informed myself even more. I really dont like him now!

[JNickel101]

Had Clinton had a few more years, we still would have been in Iraq...he was the one who called for regime change (and was doing it long before he said this):

"When I left office, there was a substantial amount of biological and chemical material unaccounted for. That is, at the end of the first Gulf War, we knew what he had. We knew what was destroyed in all the inspection processes and that was a lot. And then we bombed with the British for four days in 1998. We might have gotten it all; we might have gotten half of it; we might have gotten none of it. But we didn't know. So I thought it was prudent for the president to go to the U.N. and for the U.N. to say you got to let these inspectors in, and this time if you don't cooperate the penalty could be regime change, not just continued sanctions."
--Bill Clinton, July 22, 2003

http://www.weeklystandard.com/Utilities/printer_preview.asp?idArticle=3236&R=13ADBA4AC

[TRNDRVR]

Please wise one, tell me who would be better....Osama? Billary? PAUL???F*cking anybody NOT in the republican party. Remember, it was the republicans who put the military in harms way in the first place. Or did you forget?


Go back to your train and popcorn.Are you sure? My 6 figure a year income comes off the backs of taxpayers like you. :wave:

Thanks!


http://www.clipartof.com/images/emoticons/xsmall2/1231_hysterically_laughing.gif

[SBrad001]

I'm reading Dr. Paul the gynecologist's website now...wow....

Talk about a misleading, lie filled site....

I'm glad I informed myself even more. I really dont like him now!

So what is it that you find to be untruthful?

[JNickel101]

Well, right on his intro page:

He has never voted to raise congressional pay.

They dont have to. They get it automatically - they have to vote AGAINST it in order to not get the pay raise. Misleading #1

http://www.ronpaul2008.com/issues/war-and-foreign-policy

this whole page is crap.

I guess I should have said his website is misleading and full of garbage. I agree with him on a few common sense things, but for the most part, he just sounds looney.

[JNickel101]

F*cking anybody NOT in the republican party. Remember, it was the republicans who put the military in harms way in the first place. Or did you forget?


Are you sure? My 6 figure a year income comes off the backs of taxpayers like you. :wave:

Thanks!


http://www.clipartof.com/images/emoticons/xsmall2/1231_hysterically_laughing.gif

Not by me! I havent paid taxes for a few years now - part of that whole "while you're deployed, your income is tax free" deal that I get
:roflmao:
but your taxes pay my salary!

Now go up there and read my post w/ linky about Mr Clinton...who is NOT a Republican.

I didnt forget, I'm just not misinformed!!!

[TRNDRVR]

Not by me! I havent paid taxes for a few years now - part of that whole "while you're deployed, your income is tax free" deal that I get
:roflmao:
but your taxes pay my salary!

Now go up there and read my post w/ linky about Mr Clinton...who is NOT a Republican.

I didnt forget, I'm just not misinformed!!!Clinton hasn't been in office for the last 8 years. Quit blaming him for shit that YOUR shithead president is responsible for.

[JNickel101]

Wow...zinger of a comeback there. You really should read more. My boss had to do things because his predecessor didnt get the job done. He was too busy screwing around with interns and getting drunk.

[buschwhaked]

You're just jealous, Monica is bangin'! :lickout:

[JNickel101]

I just thew up in my mouth a little....:puke:

[ehall]

Clinton would have done more if he thought it was politically feasible.

From the collective memory hole... http://www.cnn.com/WORLD/9802/18/town.meeting.folo/

U.S. policy on Iraq draws fire in Ohio
February 18, 1998
Web posted at: 9:01 p.m. EST (0201 GMT)

COLUMBUS, Ohio (CNN) -- The Clinton administration's plan to launch a military strike on Iraq ran into plenty of flak in the American heartland Wednesday.

At a town meeting held in St. John Arena at Ohio State University and aired exclusively on CNN, Secretary of State Madeleine Albright, Defense Secretary William Cohen and National Security Adviser Sandy Berger encountered a noisy, opinionated crowd and considerable opposition to another war with Iraq.

Albright was drowned out at one point by a group chanting, "One, two, three, four, we don't want your racist war," as she tried to explain U.S. policy to the audience of 6,000.

The heckling became so intense at one point that Albright interrupted CNN's Judy Woodruff and said, "Could you tell those people I'll be happy to talk to them when this is over. I'd like to make my point."

Similar outbursts greeted Cohen and Berger as they laid out again a U.S. position that is familiar to those who have followed the building crisis in the media.

They said the United States would prefer to see a peaceful resolution and hopes that U.N. Secretary-General Kofi Annan will make significant progress when he visits with Iraqi officials this weekend.

But if Iraqi President Saddam Hussein doesn't allow U.N. arms inspectors to have unrestricted access to all weapons sites in Iraq, they reaffirmed that a U.S.-led coalition will respond with military force.

'How many times....?'

While those opposing a "racist war" were a tiny, if vocal, minority, there were many others in the audience who agreed with a veteran who asked if "we're going to do it half-assed the way we did before?"

A caller from Oklahoma echoed that sentiment, asking, "How many times are we going to send our children and our children's children to fight Saddam Hussein?"

"We've spent seven years containing him at no loss to U.S. lives," Cohen said, adding that an attack would reduce the threat of "chemical and biological weapons that will pose a threat to your children and grandchildren for the future."

Another caller noted that the U.S. encouraged an uprising in southern Iraq but did not help those who responded, and that they were subsequently "slaughtered" by Iraqi troops.

"Our policy has been to support opposition groups, and it continues to be our policy," Cohen began, but he was drowned out by chants of "Bull----! Bull----!"

Another member of the audience screamed at the chanters, "Shut up!"

One young man asked Albright why the United States is willing to attack Iraq while ignoring actions by other countries.

Albright responded, "No one has done what Saddam Hussein has done, or is thinking of doing. He is producing weapons of mass destruction, and he is qualitatively and quantitatively different from other dictators."

Albright scolds questioner

As shouts erupted from the audience, she added, "I'm really surprised that people feel they need to defend the rights of Saddam Hussein."

"You're not answering my question, Madame Albright," the questioner said.

"As a former university professor," Albright said, "I suggest, sir, that you study carefully what American foreign policy is. Every one of the violations has been pointed out on what is not right, and I would be happy to spend 50 minutes with you after the forum to explain it."

Berger told the audience that should military action be necessary, "the cardinal principle of the planning of this operation has been to seek to minimize civilian casualties.

"Obviously, that's not possible (to eliminate them altogether), especially when you're dealing with someone who uses people as human shields. But we have no intention of trying to wreak havoc on the Iraqi people."

One heckler who made his way to a microphone asked how Albright, Cohen and Berger could sleep at night, knowing that innocent Iraqis would be killed and injured by any military strike.

"We will not send messages to Saddam Hussein with the blood of the Iraqi people," he said. "If you want to deal with Saddam, deal with Saddam, not the Iraqi people."

'What democracy is all about'

"What we are doing," replied Albright, "is so that you all can sleep at night. I am very proud of what we are doing. We are the greatest nation in the world ..."

She stopped as the audience rose and applauded.

"... and what we are doing," she resumed, "is being the indispensable nation, willing to make the world safe for our children and grandchildren, and for nations who follow the rules."

A caller from Germany who identified himself as a member of the U.S. armed forces, told the panel that he agreed with what they were trying to do. "And if lives need to be lost," he said, "let it start with mine."

Although surprised by the opposition they encountered, the officials adjusted to the noise level and the probing questions.

"This is a tremendous example of what democracy is all about," Cohen said. "People expressing opposition ... would not be allowed to do this in a number of countries, including Iraq."

State Department spokesman James Rubin played down the tone of the meeting, and said Albright, Berger and Cohen "enjoyed it. They came away feeling that the overwhelming majority of the audience was very supportive of the goals of the administration."
Plain truth--Bush did what Clinton wanted to do but couldn't. But as we now know thanks to the voices of superior reason among us *cough* this was all BUSH LIES!!11one ... damn that Karl Rove and his time machine

[SBrad001]

Well, right on his intro page:

He has never voted to raise congressional pay.

They dont have to. They get it automatically - they have to vote AGAINST it in order to not get the pay raise. Misleading #1

http://www.ronpaul2008.com/issues/war-and-foreign-policy

this whole page is crap.

I guess I should have said his website is misleading and full of garbage. I agree with him on a few common sense things, but for the most part, he just sounds looney.

You do realize that Congress has passed billed with huge pay increases attached to them.

What about his foreign policy stand? You think we should be the world's self appointed police force while our children aren't getting the education they need, and our jobs are being shipped overseas?

[ehall]

Education is a state issue not a federal one, all the fed can do is provide funding which they have increased dramatically. Are you proposing the federal govt should seize that issue despite the constitutional limits imposed on it by we the people?

As for jobs shipped overseas, more people in the US are working than ever before.

[SBrad001]

Clinton would have done more if he thought it was politically feasible.

From the collective memory hole... http://www.cnn.com/WORLD/9802/18/town.meeting.folo/


But as we now know, this was all BUSH LIES!!11one ... damn that Karl Rove and his time machine


:rolleyes:

Talk about strawmen. . . Looky here everyone, Clinton would have done this and that. Clinton did this. . . blah blah blah. . . .

You reminded me of a little hyperactive chihuahua, always yipping, and nipping at peoples feat but never anything of substance.

[JNickel101]

Clinton would have done more if he thought it was politically feasible.

From the collective memory hole... http://www.cnn.com/WORLD/9802/18/town.meeting.folo/


Plain truth--Bush did what Clinton wanted to do but couldn't. But as we now know thanks to the voices of superior reason among us *cough* this was all BUSH LIES!!11one ... damn that Karl Rove and his time machine

Thats pretty weak. If they made their decision off of a bunch of Buckeyes complaining....LOL

That last part I must be missing out on some inside joke....:doh:

[JNickel101]

You do realize that Congress has passed billed with huge pay increases attached to them.

What about his foreign policy stand? You think we should be the world's self appointed police force while our children aren't getting the education they need, and our jobs are being shipped overseas?

Congress gets a huge pay raise every year, automatically....

Like I said, I agree with some of his ideas...but at this point, we're in deep militarily with parts of the world due to past misuse of the military by a certain cigar loving former President....

Paul just tries to pass himself off as "the only good politician"..."I'm a good guy, you can trust me, I'm not like the other 500+ members of Congress".

[lancey3]

Ron Paul turns down his congressional pay raise every single year.

[Darky]

Yeah, it sucks there will be a jack ass in office(pun intended) and it sickens me. We pull out the war we are royaly XXXXed up the ass. Sorry for the profanity but its the truth!
Its possible to express an opinion without cussing...

[Darky]

The key here is "while you are in the service they cover it 100%." Now, things in the AF are different than the Army because, well frankly, you guys are spoiled. ;) I can tell you personally it's extremely difficult to go to college if you are in a combat unit in the Army. You spend 2/3rds of your time in Iraq, and the rest in the field or scraping for family time (if you have one, I'm not talking about parents). In the Army they have recently CUT the amount of college needed to get promoted. Whereas if you had a bachelors degree you were a shoe in for promotion, now you and the guy with only 50 hours are on the same boat. I thought about trying it while we were deployed, but the day I was going to sign up for classes we went into blackout (all outside communications shut down, usually lasting 24-56 hours), were back up for a day, and then back down again. It was like that the entire deployment.

Now, if I were only gone 6 months at a time and didn't live on a spec of sand for a base in the middle of Baghdad, sure, it wouldn't be a problem.

This new GI bill is a really exciting oppurtunity for me, if it passes. I'm leaving the military in 6 months and in looking at the current GI bill it will not cover my education. But in the end, I'm not totally dependant on it to get my education and I want it badly enough, I'll figure something.

McCain is not getting my vote for this reason and a myriad of other things. He may work great for the Air Force, but his future policies and Bush's current policies are brutalizing the Army.
While I was in the Marine Corps it was 100% tuition assistance while in as well. I'm pretty sure the policy is the same all around. You can't blame Bush for the crappy internet connection out there. I know when I was in Kandahar, our connection (leached off the Army's) ran pretty damn good the vast majority of the time we were there. It sound like your difficulties are more related to MOS than education policy. You have to remember, when joining the military, you're signing up to defend the country's interests and sometimes (especially in a combat MOS) it doesn't work for college.

:)

[Darky]

Remember, it was the republicans who put the military in harms way in the first place. Or did you forget?


Remember, it's those of us who have served or are currently serving who volunteered to be placed in harm's way. We have an all volunteer military. Or did you forget?

[SBrad001]

. . . You have to remember, when joining the military, you're signing up to defend the country's interests and sometimes (especially in a combat MOS) it doesn't work for college.

:)

Couldn't agree with you more!

I just want our veterans to be taken care of after they decide it's time to leave and pass the torch along. I think it's the least we can do for those that have put their lives on the line for this country regardless of who sent them.

[Darky]

Couldn't agree with you more!

I just want our veterans to be taken care of after they decide it's time to leave and pass the torch along. I think it's the least we can do for those that have put their lives on the line for this country regardless of who sent them.
I'm on the same track here as you, I can say though, that it's been difficult for me to get any college done since getting out as I've been working by butt off to make money for my family and also still be able to spend time with them. Hopefully things'll be slowing down here soon.

[SBrad001]

Remember, it's those of us who have served or are currently serving who volunteered to be placed in harm's way. We have an all volunteer military. Or did you forget?

I will never forget that. That's why I think we should be sure that we as a nation have set the right course of action before a single service member's life is lost. Our all volunteer military has entrusted us with their lives to not squander those lives needlessly. That's a pretty heavy responsibility from my point of view.

[buschwhaked]

Yeah, i didn't really want to say it, but the reason we would 'lose' internet connectivity is not because of MOS or anything. We go into blackout because of a KIA, MASCAS situation, or anything else that we don't want getting out immediatly.

And one of the reasons I joined was I didn't know what I wanted to do in college after two years. So instead of wasting my/my parents money dicking around in school, I figured that I was physically fit, intelligent, and able to serve our country. So going to college was not really a priority for me while I was in. But I still see it as an issue for those who do want to go, and they are having problems.

[ColoradoRaptor]

Obama.....NEVER.......Clinton........Yeah OK and Paul.........RIGHT.......The whole damn county has gone to crap and it is not JUST the politicians fault. WE THE PEOPLE is just old ink on old paper these days. The government has absolute power and they WRITE laws to keep it that way!! (REBOOT back to the original Constitution/Bill of Rights) A true Democratic society powered by the people would be in much better shape than we are now. Our nation WAS once an industrial giant producing damn near everything the rest of the world needed. Now we buy all our CHEAPER crap from overseas!!! Just look at all the junk you got lyin around your house ( made everywhere but here )!! Are we a world leader????? Look at the declining Dollar... We should produce our own stuff BETTER than the rest of the world!! Who is to blame......WE ARE.....we want a fat bank account without having to work for it and to top it off we buy the cheapest crap just because it IS cheap....( Industry has moved out of the country to give our cheap asses what we want) GREED......MONEY......GREED.....MONEY.....( THE ROOT OF ALL EVIL ) If we as a nation do not wake the hell up and fix the problems that are way out of control, the once mighty United States of America will go the way of the ONCE mighty Roman Empire!!! My worthless 2 cents :rtm: :conceited

[ColoradoRaptor]

I will never forget that. That's why I think we should be sure that we as a nation have set the right course of action before a single service member's life is lost. Our all volunteer military has entrusted us with their lives to not squander those lives needlessly. That's a pretty heavy responsibility from my point of view.

X2 I am one of those Volunteers:patriot:

[Darky]

The love of money is the root of all evil...which still fits perfectly with your statements. :D

[bhansen99xj]

Nader!!!

[XJEEPER]

There's prolly 3 or 4 dozen better qualified candidates for President, who could turn our country around.......problem is, they aren't politicians.

President of the United States is a life-long commitment....unfortunately for some, life-ending. You don't go back to being Joe Citizen when you're done and you forever have a target on you by the press, the public and the psycho's.

None of them share my views on policy.......McCain comes the closest, but his Socialist lean on most stuff just leave me feeling indifferent.
Obama is a good actor at best......
Hillary is.....we'll, Hillary.

[Ghost]

I still believe that McCain is the lesser of the evils out there. Osama's gun policies are enough for me to not want him in office. As for Clinton she is to liberal for me and IMHO too power hungry. Paul will just take needed votes away from McCain IMHO. If Osama gets in there you beater hide your guns or be prepared to fight for them. He can better rule a country with out weapons then the armed citizens that are out there now. And yea that was a reference to him being a Socialist Dictator if given the opportunity. JMHO.

[DaffyXJ]

If Osama gets in there you better hide your guns or be prepared to fight for them. He can better rule a country without weapons then the armed citizens that are out there now. JMHO.

X2.

his socialist ideals cause me great concern.

[lancey3]

X2.

his socialist ideals cause me great concern.

X9001