Pirate drama, bad trail etiquette!

[Skullver]

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?t=504021
http://www.trail-gear.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=6822&posted=1#post6822

[OT]

Did they delete the offending thread?
I want to see what was so fawking bad.

[Lawn Cher']

Did they delete the offending thread?
I want to see what was so fawking bad.

It seems there has been evidence tampering.

[HaleYes]

It seems there has been evidence tampering.

That's what I got out of it too. Pics are gone for the most part.

[Lawn Cher']

So what is this, Seinfeld? A thread about nothing...

[OT]

Here's a thread with the pics.
Some places, like Okla., that's okay, but in NorCal?
Just stupid.
http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?p=5847999

[Skullver]

That's what I got out of it too. Pics are gone for the most part.
Here are a couple that survived:
http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?p=5847999
EDIT: OT beat me to it

[XJCreeper]

I feel like a boob. I've been proudly displaying the Trail-Gear sticker on my 85' Toyota pickup and talking up there products. Not anymore off come the Trail-Gear sticker and into the trash can. Their parts may be OK but if they are doing this crap what good are they with no trails to run on!:flamemad:The Trail-Gear sponsored driver in one day has wiped out all the good work that we all do in treading lightly. How can we to strike a balance between wheelers and the greenies with a$$w4ds likes this. He probably thought it was cool killing a tree. He might as well have used a chainsaw and cut it down afterwards to light the nightly Trail-Gear campfire. :puke:This sucks for all of us. I'm very disappointed in Trail-Gear and will no longer promote the products I've bought from them.Thank God Jeep/Chrysler doesn't do this crap and the Rubicon trail otherwise it would be closed. I will spead the word on not supporting their behavior by no longer buying thier products. Trail-Gear and their driver are and embarrasment to all of us. A lack of response from Trail-Gear is also unexcuseable. :hang:

[IntrepidXJ]

i saw the pics before they were removed.......fawking idiots

[goodburbon]

Um, he drove up a tree, His sponsorship was lost, and he apologized. I wouldn't blame Trail gear, it's not like the owner of Trail gear was driving up a tree, just a guy who got a few good deals on parts.

[Skullver]

Um, he drove up a tree, His sponsorship was lost, and he apologized. I wouldn't blame Trail gear, it's not like the owner of Trail gear was driving up a tree, just a guy who got a few good deals on parts.
I think being a sponsered team member on a sponsered trail run goes a little farther than "getting a few good deals", we have enough environmentalist issues in Cali. i would hate to have to sell my XJ because there is nowhere close for me to drive it

[IntrepidXJ]

Um, he drove up a tree, His sponsorship was lost, and he apologized. I wouldn't blame Trail gear, it's not like the owner of Trail gear was driving up a tree, just a guy who got a few good deals on parts.

he was on a TG sponsored run....if NAXJA or any other club put on an event where something like this happened.......

[IntrepidXJ]

I think being a sponsered team member on a sponsered trail run goes a little farther than "getting a few good deals", we have enough environmentalist issues in Cali. i would hate to have to sell my XJ because there is nowhere close for me to drive it

not to mention the fact that a sponsored team member should know better :rolleyes:

[goodburbon]

Ok, whatever rant on about it and make it a much bigger deal than it is, I just think everyones a bit enviro-tarded in Cali. You guys are determined to close our own trails out there with all of this public ranting and attention drawn to the offense:twak: :rattle: . It has been handled.

[IntrepidXJ]

Ok, whatever rant on about it and make it a much bigger deal than it is, I just think everyones a bit enviro-tarded in Cali. You guys are determined to close our own trails out there with all of this public ranting and attention drawn to the offense:twak: :rattle: . It has been handled.

it is a big deal. if you don't realize that, then you obviously don't keep up to date on what the green groups use against us to try and close trails down :rolleyes:

[Skullver]

Ok, whatever rant on about it and make it a much bigger deal than it is, I just think everyones a bit enviro-tarded in Cali. You guys are determined to close our own trails out there with all of this public ranting and attention drawn to the offense:twak: :rattle: . It has been handled.
"you guys"? who are you talking to? I posted a link to the original post on pirate, BFD, I really don't think it has been "handled" yet, sorry for drawing all this uneeded publicity

[OT]

Ok, whatever rant on about it and make it a much bigger deal than it is, I just think everyones a bit enviro-tarded in Cali. You guys are determined to close our own trails out there with all of this public ranting and attention drawn to the offense:twak: :rattle: . It has been handled.
Oh, c'mon.
If the greenies were always looking for a reason to shut down the trails you wheeled on the most, you know you'd be just as vocal and fighting mad.
If not, then you must not enjoy wheeling as much as the rest of us.

[XJCreeper]

I is a big deal for us here. This has already been report to the USFS and the local authorities. John from Trail-Gear is screwed and will have his court day soon. The greenie's will be heading out soon and there is now more ammo to shut this trail as well. I guess it nice to live where there is no greenies, but the weather is nice in Cali. The realities of living here.

[TheWarWagon]

donde esta pinche pictures?

[OT]

donde esta pinche pictures?
Gone now.

[goodburbon]

Hasn't been handled.....so what kind of punishment and solution is acceptable to you? No organized events there ever again? Impoundment of the guys rig?

I understand, we're running scared from the greenies.....because they use peoples ignorance against us but how far is far enough.

[OT]

I understand, we're running scared from the greenies.....because they use peoples ignorance against us but how far is far enough.
Don't know, ask them yourself.
www.sierraclub.com

[Skullver]

Hasn't been handled.....so what kind of punishment and solution is acceptable to you? No organized events there ever again? Impoundment of the guys rig?

I understand, we're running scared from the greenies.....because they use peoples ignorance against us but how far is far enough.
I think the guys from trail gear should step up and represent the tool they sponsered rather than distancing themselves, there are many things that could be done, of course it is not my job to think of them, we only have to deal with the repercussions. All I know is it doesn't feel "handled" to me.

[8Mud]

A little perspective might help. Was the guy a dumb ass, no question. Did he actually make any kind of lasting dent in the ecology, not likely. I know it does add up though.
Left up to the Sierra Club, they would shut down everything, just on general principle. Turn the forests into pristine, Bark Beetle feeding grounds.
They shut down a river bottom (a long time ago), that we used to wheel in, right in the middle of the San Fernando valley. Mostly dry 11 months a year. Floods 200 yards wide 30 yards deep at about 35 MPH a few times a year, which kind of scrubs the whole thing clean. I really can't see how palying down there with off road vehicles would cause any lasting damage. Most of the flood waters are runoff from the city streets anyway.
Maybe if they opened a few more areas like this, they wouldn't have to worry about idiots climbing trees in the forests, with there rigs.
How do you keep kids off the streets (or out of the trees), build playgrounds or allocate recreation areas.

[XJCreeper]

The distancing tactic ain't doing it for me. John has worked with Trail-Gear long time. I'm feel stupid for buy parts from John and taking his advice on working on my Toyota. Just like when I go offroad I gotta respect the vendor I buy from. When I bought my parts for the Cherokee I did notice that Rubicon Express has support our sport information. When I bought the stuff for the Toyota Trail-Gear did not. From here on I'll be looking out for save our sports information and membership before I give them my $$$.

Thanks to everyone who educated me on treading lightly. My boys will be taught the same so they can enjoy it too. Personally I don't need to rip up public land to get a rush or boost my ego. Crawling rocks at low speed is enough for me. I leave the trees for huggin and the tracks for racing!

Where was the organization or was this a party run. When you blow it you gotta take responsibility to earn my respect. When is the "1st Annual Trail-Gear Trail Cleanup" or "1st Annual Trail-Gear Trail Restoration" gonna take place. Wonder who would show up http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/images/smilies/confused.gif. Maybe by the 4th or 5th alot of folks would be proud to be there.

But what do I know. I'm just another guy who had a Trail-Gear sticker on his 85' Toyota pickup (http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?t=504021&page=4#). Hopefully all concerned truly feel bad about this and do the right thing other than blame each other. Politics sucks and the greenies cause has fresh ammo. Unfortunately blaming the posted photos will be like blaming the gun for shooting someone. :puke:Maybe we should blame the buggy? What ever happened to common sense.

[rckclmbr]

personally i think that you should just buy your own land(somewhere where 500 grand gets more than a 3 BR house) try more like 515 an acre here in texas. Yes its shit land to farm or ranch but it sure makes a BA place to wheel. Then If a greenie shows up on your property you shoot in their general direction and they run.

Problem solved.

[Matt S.]

I requested to have the above post deleted. After a few phone calls, I need to correct something I said.

What happened happened. I am pissed it happened, but whatever. I still don't support TrailGear mostly due to business tactics. The fellow who was in the pictures happens to be a non local member in my local club.... darn. He made a mistake, but the photos shouldn't have made it online. What gets me, is tomorrow I going to make a call to the FS Ranger who was on the trail as the "ohv host" and ask why he didnt stop the camping on the water and what not.

Still mad.

[Matt S.]

personally i think that you should just buy your own land(somewhere where 500 grand gets more than a 3 BR house) try more like 515 an acre here in texas. Yes its shit land to farm or ranch but it sure makes a BA place to wheel. Then If a greenie shows up on your property you shoot in their general direction and they run.

Problem solved.


obviously you havnt wheeled the sierras...

[rckclmbr]

obviously you havnt wheeled the sierras...
Why should i pay the 500 in gas to get there when i can drive 15 to the ranch and play all day and drive up trees and over rabbits and shoot shit and do whatever the hell i want and then take pics of it and if some one gives me shit i say..... F off.

I am not intending that to you, just saying it.

[XJCreeper]

Why should i pay the 500 in gas to get there when i can drive 15 to the ranch and play all day and drive up trees and over rabbits and shoot shit and do whatever the hell i want and then take pics of it and if some one gives me shit i say..... F off.

I am not intending that to you, just saying it.

You definately haven't experienced rock crawling on one of our fine trails here in the Sierra's. If you did you'd really no what it's like to pit your machine against nature. It's an adreline rush and an experience of being in desolation you'd never forget. Sorry no offense but mud pits, dirt, and wheeling on live trees is no rush for me.

As for the Trail-Gear crew comment my experience with them has been alright. But you are speaking from first hand experience I'm not going to argue with you. However a scolded Ranger that used to be cool to the responsible offroaders in his park is not cool. I doubt that Ranger was anywhere around when the idiot did what he did. I'm sure he would have handled it there and we wouldn't be talking about it here. I was pissed too but lets not over react. We are starting to sound like eco-nazi's here. This has been documented/reported to the USFS by Del Albright and and I'm sure they can handle it just fine. I'm sure that Ranger will get the downward flow from his boss when is comes down.

[GSequoia]

You definately haven't experienced rock crawling on one of our fine trails here in the Sierra's. If you did you'd really no what it's like to pit your machine against nature. It's an adreline rush and an experience of being in desolation you'd never forget. Sorry no offense but mud pits, dirt, and wheeling on live trees is no rush for me.

X2 (even though I haven't yet had the plearsure of the trails you refer to)

[8Mud]

I quess rock scratchers are the flavor of the month. :) Me I'm just happy getting to where I want go and back home again.
I do dig watching the guys, working there rigs in some of the stone quarries around here. Also enjoy watching them in the sand quarries. We have fun in our local mud pit.
I think tree climbing with a Jeep was invented by a Russian, named Yuri Yakov.

[XJCreeper]

I quess rock scratchers are the flavor of the month. :) Me I'm just happy getting to where I want go and back home again.
I do dig watching the guys, working there rigs in some of the stone quarries around here. Also enjoy watching them in the sand quarries. We have fun in our local mud pit.
I think tree climbing with a Jeep was invented by a Russian, named Yuri Yakov.
Never heard of Yuri Yakov or the sport of Tree Climbing with a Jeep. Is he a cousin of Jack Mikoff the famous flute player?:laugh:

For me rockcrawling is not a flavor of the month. Most folks don't relize it, but he sport has been around and evolved over a long period of time. It was started in the 1950's by return GI's who bought surplus army jeeps. The Rubicon was one or the original trails they'd tackle. Here links on the history if you're interested :rof:.
http://www.we-rock.cc/article_history.php
http://www.co.el-dorado.ca.us/Rubicon/History.htm
http://www.delalbright.com/Rubicon/history.htm

[8Mud]

I had an M3A in the mid 60's and hung out in Death Valley, Amargosa and The Providence. Did a lot of crawling, though most of it was incidental, I was usually out rock hounding and/or just exploring.
Germany has a lot more mud than rocks, so I adapted :). I usually stick to the farm and logging trails.

[XJCreeper]

Rolling around in the middle of nowhere in a M3A sounds like some real fun. In the 60's no doubt! Paint a flower on you jeep and the hippie chicks come a running.:sunshine:

I used to really dig mud too. Unfortunately the mud in northern california has alot of clay in it and sticks like glue. In the winter it stays wet and things start rusting. So gave up on doing it for the most part. I do occasionally venture through the mud pit at Frank Raines OHV park near me though.
http://www.cardomain.com/member_pages/show_image.pl?bg=000000&image=http://memimage.cardomain.net/member_images/2/web/710000-710999/710342_60_full.jpg
http://www.cardomain.com/member_pages/show_image.pl?bg=000000&image=http://memimage.cardomain.net/member_images/2/web/710000-710999/710342_60_full.jpg

http://www.cardomain.com/member_pages/show_image.pl?bg=000000&image=http://memimage.cardomain.net/member_images/2/web/710000-710999/710342_60_full.jpg

[Timber]

I think what happened is terrible and hope no more land is restricted (or re-restricted, if I understand the situation properly). In Michigan, a vehicle can be stopped (and ticketed) just for having mud on it if the DNR officer feels the driver unnecessarily spun his tires--I'm not exaggerating here. A Michigan DNR officer doesn't even physically have to see "the act" for which he may ticket a person. I also agree with the principles of the Tread Lightly! group, but I honestly cannot figure out what they have actually done for the off-road community other than post their logo everywhere and passively pressure companies to donate to them. Oh, I guess they talk to elementary school kids now and then, and donate money to Hummer. Maybe they do a lot out West.

[IntrepidXJ]

check it out:

http://www.naxja.org/forum/showthread.php?p=938832

[OT]

That's great.:thumbup:
It needed to happen.

[swbooking]

Thats pretty cool that everything got settled and they learned a lesson from it. I like all the clean up and helping the adopt-a-trail crew.

[RTicUL8]

Yea, but now we need to take care of our own problem....

coughdzocalicough who doesn't give a flying:owl:
about running over trees.

makes up lame excuses about it being on private property...etc. etc. etc.http://www.websmileys.com/sm/violent/sterb097.gif

[goodburbon]

I drive over trees.

[RTicUL8]

I drive over trees.

-->Look at ceiling.
-->Smack Forehead!
-->Shake Head back and forth

Aye Yi Yi! http://www.websmileys.com/sm/crazy/570.gif

[goodburbon]

I bought 2.5 acres and needed to clear it, I drove over anything and everything I could with the jeep, then cut it and burned it tree by tree.

[swbooking]

Yea, but now we need to take care of our own problem....
coughdzocalicough who doesn't give a flying:owl:
about running over trees.
makes up lame excuses about it being on private property...etc. etc. etc.http://www.websmileys.com/sm/violent/sterb097.gif

yeah thats true, id hate to see the surrounding wildlife of a trail go to crap because someone cant jst stay on the marked trail.