Pandora's Box

drywaterbm1 · May 7, 2008

I'm new here, first post. I have an 89 MJ, 4.7 stroker, Exocaged, Rough Country SOA rear - SA front, Dana 44 Rear - Dana 30 Front - Both OX locked and Yukon Cro-moly shafted with CTM joints in front. 36" bias IROK's
The SA kit has got to go. I am doing a leaf spring conversion. I am keeping the Dana 30 - great clearance, trussed, OX locked, Yukon shafts, CTM joints - it's staying.
So, it's Pandora's box. I don't particulary want to hear from anyone how fawked it is to keep a 30, I don't want to hear flames from better than thou, I don't want to switch axles, and I don't want to do a long arm. What I want is reliable, dependable and cheap removal of my total crap SA kit, it just can't live with the bias ply IROKs. I wheel elegant, without much throttle except for deep snow, so I don't really need a stronger axle, the 30 does me just fine.
What I would like is honest opinions on steering. I have tried to find some late model Grand knuckles, but they are just not out there. The Teraflex knuckle looks doable, but kinda spendy. I can weld, (AISC and ASW certed unlimited mig, I have 4 machines including TIG), and I love to fab, so homebrews are welcome! Crossover or not, I just need to find a way to safely and reliably steer this rig to the trailhead and around town.
One setup I have seen has a single tie rod between knuckles, with a single arm attached about 12" off center to the passenger side, any problems with steering geometry on this one?
TIA for your help,
Boats :us:
BTW: I have searched the forums, everyone else is going or has gone full width, 44, 60, etc... no Dana 30 front spring swaps found, and I don't have the $ to switch rims tires axles etc....

cajunlcc · May 7, 2008

you should look at rock krawlers otk set up, i think it could be replicated pretty easily with some tube and a few bungs and what not

cal · May 7, 2008

If you are going to run the 36 bias, get rid of the yukon shafts and get some quality alloys; and some quality ujoints, CTM's are probably the only thing that will hold up.

For steering, you can run JCR's 1 ton flipped, or you can get a set of WJ knuckles from car-part.com for about $120 shipped, and do the WJ conversion. The WJ setup gives you superior steering and brakes.

JNickel101 · May 7, 2008

Honestly dude, you'll find a lot of people here who will support your polished 30

its a very good axle...and you've obviously done a lot to it to make it as tough as can be...

I'd really look at doing the WJ knuckle swap. I know you said it was tough finding the knuckles, but check the For Sale forums on here - you can get a complete WJ D30 for cheaper than the cost of the Tera Knuckle. In addition to the awesome steering setup, you get the bigger dual piston calipers - better to stop your big ass tires

(the Akebonos are a bit better than the Teves, from what I've read).

EDIT: damn, I wrote all that and just could have said "x2"...lol

flexdout · May 7, 2008

Heres a shot of Rusty's OTK steering. Easy to duplicate. I purchased it and have since let it be used 3 times as a template for my friends to get the same steering.All you need is tube, tube ends, heims and mis-alignment spacers. Oh and to drill the knuckles/pitman arm out to accept a 5/8 bolt.

Knuckle to Knuckle tube is cut to 46"(just tube length)
Pitman arm to Knuckle tube is cut it 32" (just tube length)

Its really easy to duplicate. Just wish I would have had the measurements and I would have made it myself. But the good part is the guys who I have let use mine as a template have shot me a couple bucks each which was nice.

cal · May 7, 2008

Flex it the other direction and take a picture. I want to see how close that rod end is to overtraveled, at the pitman arm.

flexdout · May 7, 2008

Oh and 1 thing I noticed though when I went to this steering is I started to get play in my steering box. I guess the lack of "flex" in the solid setup put pressure on steering box and slowly rung out the attachment points for it. I was able to fix it with a steering box brace. Just a note to self if your running large tires with a solid steering setup. Im not sure if it was just wore out before or it actually happened from the stress of stiff steering components.

flexdout · May 7, 2008

Like that?

flexdout · May 7, 2008

The kit only came with 1 MA spacer for the pitman arm and I got another 1 so its over and under the Heim. It actually does very well at full flex. The only part of the kit I dont like is everything stacked up on 1 long ass bolt on the passenger knuckle. Its a grade 8 and I have purchased 2 spares in the event it ever does snap. Hopefully if it does its under slow circumstances not at highway speeds.

C85D4x4 · May 7, 2008

http://www.reidracing.biz/DANA30.php

"The Reid knuckle adapts these axles to use early style Chevy & Jeep Dana 44 "outers". Early outers use tapered roller bearings eliminating the problematic unit bearings and allows standard lockout hubs to be used. Bigger brakes, more lug pattern options, and better aftermarket support come along as part of the conversion."

cal · May 7, 2008

flexdout said:
Like that?

Well yes, but i want to see the pitman arm while its like that.

XJ_ranger · May 7, 2008

if youre into fabbing, look into doing a 3 link...

I was tired of the crappy geometry with short arms as well...

I raised my axle end mounts up 2" and lowered my body side mounts about 2" as well, and increased the arm length a little, and LOVE my front suspension now...

more info here:
http://www.naxja.org/forum/showthread.php?t=934580&highlight=3+link

and here:
http://www.naxja.org/forum/showthread.php?t=910021&highlight=3+link

keep the approach angle, keep the desirable steering characteristics of a track bar, and keep the coils...

I wish id have kept my 30...

Lowrange2 · May 7, 2008

C85D4x4 said:
http://www.reidracing.biz/DANA30.php

"The Reid knuckle adapts these axles to use early style Chevy & Jeep Dana 44 "outers". Early outers use tapered roller bearings eliminating the problematic unit bearings and allows standard lockout hubs to be used. Bigger brakes, more lug pattern options, and better aftermarket support come along as part of the conversion."

LOL! He was complaining about the price of a Tera Knuckle ~ and you suggest these!?

They are nice tho...

C85D4x4 · May 7, 2008

lowrange2 said:
LOL! He was complaining about the price of a Tera Knuckle ~ and you suggest these!?

They are nice tho...

But he did say it looks doable........plus you can get 44 stuff and lock out hubs cheap out of junk yards around here

drywaterbm1 · May 8, 2008

Thanks for the links!
Alot of good ideas so far; but, some of them won't work. I forgot to mention that this will be an SOA on the front, so bars that come too close together at the knuckle aren't going to work, especially at full stuff.
I have researched the hell out of this, http://www.4x4wire.com/jeep/tech/brakes/xj_wjbrakes03/, the WJ knuckle conversion, and with the help of yous guys, I finally know where to get some.
Thanks for the good info! Should you have any advice what NOT to do on a front leaf spring conversion, please drop me a line.
Coming soon... WJ Knuckles, homebrew hiem jointed steering linkage, WJ brakes, YJ 2.5" front leaves, shackle reversal, and a ton of xtra steel laying around the shop = bye bye sh*$@! short arm kit!
Boats:us:

RCP Phx · May 8, 2008

drywaterbm1 said:
Thanks for the good info! Should you have any advice what NOT to do on a front leaf spring conversion, please drop me a line.

The question would be why,you will spend a ton of time/money "trying" to flex like coils,I dont get it?Just did a SAS conversion on my sons Toy about 2 years ago.Its nice but wont flex like my XJ!

alex22 · May 8, 2008

Will the OTK steering work with a 15 inch rim? I read a writeup where it was done with a 16 inch rim and the writer said that 15's might not clear.

~Alex

drywaterbm1 · May 8, 2008

RCP Phx said:
The question would be why,you will spend a ton of time/money "trying" to flex like coils,I dont get it?Just did a SAS coonversion on my sons Toy about 2 years ago.Its nice but wont flex like my XJ!

Ummmmm, read the original post.
College is expensive, leaf springs are cheap, and my short arm kit suckx ass. Besides, I want to try it, I have two other XJ's, Nuff said.

RCP Phx · May 8, 2008

You say that,while springs may seam cheap(after trying alot of them to figure it out),youll spend way more money on fab/re-fab work,steering will not be cheap,and hard to work out.Then theres dealing with the unibody!Sounded like you already have a pretty well set-up rig why F it up now!

drywaterbm1 · May 8, 2008

Because I fab like no tommorow, I have all the equipment and steel I will need, and the steering got figured out and ordered today after getting good advice from the people on this board!
This is a trail rig, not a rock crawler, not a mud runner, not a trophy truck. I built it to take me anywhere I want to go here in montana, 4' of snow and -40* or the middle of summer and dusty. I don't need D60's or Rock Jocks to stroke my ego, but I would like to be able to drive without bumpsteer and wobble.
I have reworked track bars, steering linkages, ball joints, unit hubs, checked caster, replaced bushings and generally gotten pissed off at trying to make this kit work - so stupid simple springs are next, because I love how the baloonish IROKs make trails smooth and snow not so much of an issue.
I don't need an RTI of 5000, I just want reliable and dependable; suspend the vehicle, don't rattle my teeth out, and steer straight without white knuckles.
Boats :us:

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