50 FLDS girls in Eldorado Tx

[DrMoab]

Anybody else see this on the news?
http://www.ksl.com/?nid=148&sid=3012912
I found it ironic that they shipped them off that compound in 1st Baptist Church busses.

I bet that had the FLDS leaders screaming.

discuss...

[FlexdXJ]

sometimes i wish jesus had a sniper rifle. now i am not trying to offend anyone on here as i am a very open person. I just don't think this is what he had in mind for the people that believe in him. I am just amazed by people like this. thats all i have to say

[freedom1st]

Eldorado is just a few hours south of me, kind of like Kingman, AZ was when I lived in Fillmore, UT (Kingman was actually farther). Once I realized where Eldorado was, I didn't think it would be too long before something happened. Apparently a 16 y/o girl reported abuse so they investigated. The news last night said arrests warrants were issued, but didn't state charges or suspects.

[XJEEPER]

I met a girl that had grown up in Colorado City and was arranged to marry a 45 year old relative.......luckily she was able to escape at age 15 in the trunk of her aunt's car. She was 20 when I met her, about 17 years ago, and at the time she was still living in fear that the leaders would take her back against her will.

They prey on the innocence of children and indoctrinate them to follow along......in the name of religion. They manipulate young women and toss the young men out of thier community as outcasts.

They claim to follow the beliefs of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints, but thier actions are not Christ-like and 180 degrees from the teachings of the LDS Religion. I wish press would stop calling them FLDS.

Their self-appointed prophet Warren Jeffs openly confessed while in prison that he was no prophet........ God would not annoint someone to levee this type of treatment on His children.

[DrMoab]

I wish press would stop calling them FLDS.

They might...if they stopped calling themselfs that.

Unfortunately the stigma will stick with the LDS religion as long as there is an LDS religion.

Sort of like Catholics killing Galileo.

If you do something as a religion...no matter how long ago, it seems to stick with you forever. No matter how much you renounce it.

[XJEEPER]

They might...if they stopped calling themselfs that.

Unfortunately the stigma will stick with the LDS religion as long as there is an LDS religion.

Sort of like Catholics killing Galileo.

If you do something as a religion...no matter how long ago, it seems to stick with you forever. No matter how much you renounce it.

When polygamy was practiced by the early LDS members, it was for the same purpose that it was practiced in biblical times.

The similarities are arguable, but the distinct differences are not.

[freedom1st]

While living in Utah I met several people that had grown upin polygamist homes. They were all well adjusted and reasonable folks. They were not, however, polygamists themselves. Their families were just families and dad was a working class joe. That's a far cry from the FLDS. They announced on the news last night that one of the arrest warrants issued is for a man that impregnated the 16 y/o girl that reported physical abuse at the compound.

[Tom R.]

When polygamy was practiced by the early LDS members, it was for the same purpose that it was practiced in biblical times.
I suppose that's true if you want to rewrite history.

The Old Testament talks about Abraham, Jacob, David, and Solomon practicing polygamy, but never once did God condone it. Actually, God warned against its practice. And their sin of engaging in polygamy brought consequences. Even a cursory study of the Bible will clearly show this to be true.

Section 132 of the Doctrine and Covenants clearly states the opposite of the Bible in that David and Abraham, for example, had multiple wives and that this was ordained by God. I'm not going to debate theology; I'm just presenting the facts. It's anyone's choice to believe whatever they want, but let's be clear that the differences here are as wide as the East is from the West.

[blotto66]

AND THUS SAYITH ZAX.... THOU SHALT NOT DISCUSS RELIGON ON THE FORUM!!!:twak:

I suppose that's true if you want to rewrite history.

The Old Testament talks about Abraham, Jacob, David, and Solomon practicing polygamy, but never once did God condone it. Actually, God warned against its practice. And their sin of engaging in polygamy brought consequences. Even a cursory study of the Bible will clearly show this to be true.

Section 132 of the Doctrine and Covenants clearly states the opposite of the Bible in that David and Abraham, for example, had multiple wives and that this was ordained by God. I'm not going to debate theology; I'm just presenting the facts. It's anyone's choice to believe whatever they want, but let's be clear that the differences here are as wide as the East is from the West.

[blotto66]

no good can come from discussing religon on a Jeep forum.. and if you insist on discussing it, you should discuss better things like the church of the Flying Spaghetty Monster. http://www.venganza.org/ all praise be to his noodly appendage.

[TRNDRVR]

http://www.clipartof.com/images/emoticons/xsmall2/1974_eating_popcorn.gif

[XJEEPER]

Great, now I'm craving pasta.........

[Israel]

http://www.clipartof.com/images/emoticons/xsmall2/1974_eating_popcorn.gif

It's funny you post that. As soon as I saw the topic, I thought of a thread I read a year or two ago on Mormonism and you posted the same smilie. :D

[Israel]

On topic... did anyone else have visions of Waco dancing in their heads when this hit the news? It sounds like it's going fairly well, considering, but I was half expecting the next headline to be something about a shootout and hundreds being killed.

[DrMoab]

On topic... did anyone else have visions of Waco dancing in their heads when this hit the news? It sounds like it's going fairly well, considering, but I was half expecting the next headline to be something about a shootout and hundreds being killed.
One thing to say about the polygs. It seems like they are pretty peaceful with law enforcement. You seldom hear of violence that way.

They may beat their wives, kids, dogs and squirls...but they don't mess with the cops.

[freedom1st]

I was in college just south of Waco when the Branch Davidian stand-off happened. I watched the whole thing and was appalled. I didn't get the same feeling with Eldorado because it was not a Fed op. The locals and state officers handled the operation. They did report on the local news that swat raided the FLDS Temple after being denied access. Apparently they used the fire ddepartments Jaws of life to open the front doors.

[TRNDRVR]

It's funny you post that. As soon as I saw the topic, I thought of a thread I read a year or two ago on Mormonism and you posted the same smilie. :DWell because I think that religion and politics are the two top evils in today's society, I've come to the conclusion that it's best I stay out of these topics. I will only post my popcorn response.


Oh....uh.....dammit.......I meant http://www.clipartof.com/images/emoticons/xsmall2/1974_eating_popcorn.gif

[DrMoab]

I've come to the conclusion that it's best I stay out of these topics. I will only post my popcorn response.
And its actually been pleasant around here too. :D

Seriously, I didn't post this to cause a religion debate. I just thought it was funny that they hauled those kids out on Baptist busses.

[freedom1st]

And its actually been pleasant around here too. :D

Seriously, I didn't post this to cause a religion debate. I just thought it was funny that they hauled those kids out on Baptist busses.
They also took the women. Supposed to be 200+ in all removed from the ranch. Now for the kicker, not only did they leave on Baptist busses, they are housing them in the baptist church.

[DrMoab]

They also took the women. Supposed to be 200+ in all removed from the ranch. Now for the kicker, not only did they leave on Baptist busses, they are housing them in the baptist church.
If the women are anything like they are around here, they will just go back. They are so brainwashed that they think that is actually the right way to live.

[TRNDRVR]

If the women are anything like they are around here, they will just go back. They are so brainwashed that they think that is actually the right way to live.This quote is deserving of a.......http://www.clipartof.com/images/emoticons/xsmall2/1974_eating_popcorn.gif

[DrMoab]

This quote is deserving of a.......http://www.clipartof.com/images/emoticons/xsmall2/1974_eating_popcorn.gif
When I say around here...I should change that just a little. I meant the polygamist communities around here.

[XJEEPER]

Got polyg's in Fruit Heights?

[DrMoab]

Got polyg's in Fruit Heights?
Probably just as many as there are in So Ogden. :D

You know what I mean though, this area IE Utah and the surrounding area.

[freedom1st]

The social services people actually commented on the news about trying to break through the brainwashing. The people here moved here from Kingman and Colorado City so I would assume they are like those in polygamist communities in Utah.

[SCW]

My impression is just like Ryan stated, they are so brainwashed that it doesn't really matter what happens to them, they just keep going. I was hoping when Jeffs got chucked in the slammer they would sorta wither up and die, but no such luck. Those people are like a pit-bull puppy from really lousy dogs, you'd like to find a way to save them but you know it's probably no use. Problem is you can't really drown either one, lol. Hopefully they can just keep catching enough of the dirt-bags knocking up little girls and chuck them all in the slammer to put an end to it. Even if your a plig you can wait till she's old enough to marry. Damn horn-dogs IMO.

[DrMoab]

Even if your a plig you can wait till she's old enough to marry. Damn horn-dogs IMO.
You know, I am kind of a "stay out of other peoples bedrooms" type a guy.

To each their own. If they are stupid enough to actually WANT to live with more then one wife...have at it.

Its the child abuse-rape that gets me going.

BTW, I just heard on the news they have pulled over 400 kids out of that compound now.

[LostSoul]

this was last summer in id falls


http://i191.photobucket.com/albums/z149/91redxj/phonepics667.jpg

[Tom R.]

this was last summer in id falls

http://i191.photobucket.com/albums/z149/91redxj/phonepics667.jpg
Should you be doing that in front of your wives and kids? ;)

[freedom1st]

You know, I am kind of a "stay out of other peoples bedrooms" type a guy.

To each their own. If they are stupid enough to actually WANT to live with more then one wife...have at it.

Its the child abuse-rape that gets me going.

BTW, I just heard on the news they have pulled over 400 kids out of that compound now.I totally agree. And yes the number is now over 400 children in state custody, and apparently some 170 women have left the ranch with the children.

[LostSoul]

Should you be doing that in front of your wives and kids? ;)

they didnt see anything ??

[XJEEPER]

Probably just as many as there are in So Ogden. :D

You know what I mean though, this area IE Utah and the surrounding area.

Polygyny can be found worldwide, in many different cultures.

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/07/10/world/europe/10turkey.html

http://www.atimes.com/atimes/middle_east/hi26ak01.html

http://www.iht.com/articles/ap/2006/12/28/asia/AS_GEN_Malaysia_Polygamy.php

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/africa/1493309.stm


Seems like there are common themes and problems associated with the practice.

[justme]

In some countries there is a form of polygamy practiced that is called polyandry, One woman will marry 3 or 4 men. These men are usually all brothers. The children are considered to be the offspring of all the brothers.
It's a system intended to keep wealth in the family because one wife can only have so many kids.
The form of polygamy practiced around here usually leads to poverty. Multiple wives are usually on state assistance and food stamps. It's legal for them to be getting the help because the law only recognizes the first wife. The rest are considered unwed mothers.
With all the complex emotions and conflicts that go on with just one man and one woman, I can't even imagine why these people would want to make things even more complicated!

[JEEPZZ]

Can you imagine the brain damage that comes from having more than one wife?? ONE IS ENOUGH! :laugh3:








jk hun. :D

[DrMoab]

jk hun. :D
No you aren't...and up until you said that every married male reading this thread was nodding his head in agreement with you

[XJEEPER]

I wonder what God has in store for the folks that manipulate and abuse the innocent for their own pleasure and gain, using His name.........

Haven't seen a single reporter question why there are so many girls in the compound and so few boys.

http://www.boston.com/news/nation/articles/2005/06/19/polygamys_lost_boys_expelled_from_only_life_they_k new/

The practices of these FLDS groups are far from the religious beliefs and practices of the LDS religion. Their cult-like behavior restricts the God-given rights of freedom and the pursuit of happiness, not to mention the loss of agency.

I don't know whether to be happy that this incident may release them from the bondage and indoctrination, or sad that their families, as they know it, are being torn apart. I really feel for the kids, and parents who have live their whole lives under the indoctrination of these evil leaders. I can't imagine the confusion that they must be feeling.

[freedom1st]

I don't know whether to be happy that this incident may release them from the bondage and indoctrination, or sad that their families, as they know it, are being torn apart. I really feel for the kids, and parents who have live their whole lives under the indoctrination of these evil leaders. I can't imagine the confusion that they must be feeling.I think yes is an appropriate answer

[SCW]

Their cult-like behavior restricts the God-given rights of freedom and the pursuit of happiness, not to mention the loss of agency.

I don't know whether to be happy that this incident may release them from the bondage and indoctrination, or sad that their families, as they know it, are being torn apart. I really feel for the kids, and parents who have live their whole lives under the indoctrination of these evil leaders. I can't imagine the confusion that they must be feeling.

Be happy, confusion will eventually end, and the abuse never would have. This is only the beginnings of justice for these guys.

Without going too overboard, I liken religious ferver to getting on a plane. You might think that you are getting on a plane for Deluth and end up in Detroit, but intention won't get you to Deluth. These guys (and MANY, many others) live their religions thinking they are going somewhere, but when it's all settled in the end they might be in Detroit. Regardless of why they got on the wrong plane and what their intentions are, they are in Detroit for the final accounting.

I'm hoping these dumb SOB's are finally getting off the plane and about to get an ass-whooping. Toss them in with the general population of the prisons and they can see what being a 'spritual bride' is all about.

[RTicUL8]

I have been watching this and I have yet to see the question asked - What the heck type of job do these guys have to afford such a large family?

I have a hard enough time supporting my wife & three kids.

How the heck does one support multiple wives and all their children?

Does the church have a super-secret polygamy supporters fund, or what? :dunno:

.

[DrMoab]

Here in Utah they have been in trouble for welfare fraud before. Since they can't be married legally, only "spiritually" They send each one out to collect welfare for themselfs and their 5-10 kids each. Add it up and it comes to a lot of money.

Also, the Kingstons...which are a very well known family here owns the "Family Dollar" chain of stores. They also own "Kings" which is a chain here locally.

[imwally]

Well I am just wondering why not many people out here have asked why in all the pic you do not see many boys? I just moved back to Texas and not once have I heard or seen anything about boys in the group of kids that are shown on TV.

[SCW]

I think there aren't very many boys over the age of 12 left in the group. I know they tossed nearly all of them out a few years ago for any number of innane 'wickedness', which seemed like they just wanted to thin the competition for the girls (not women). I know they were called the "Lost Boys" and got some press maybe a year ago, no clue beyond that.

[freedom1st]

I have been watching this and I have yet to see the question asked - What the heck type of job do these guys have to afford such a large family?

I have a hard enough time supporting my wife & three kids.

How the heck does one support multiple wives and all their children?

Does the church have a super-secret polygamy supporters fund, or what? :dunno:

.An article in todays paper says the group/members of the group owns several construction companies that have been winning bids with extremely low bids. One of the companys is reported to have made over 11 mil in the last 4 years. People are suggesting that they companyies are using unpaid labor, making the work part of the missions efforts of the groups missionaries.

[XJEEPER]

Now that some time has passed and more info has come out, I think the State of Texas is in over it's head. There is discussion of seizing the YFZ assets and selling them to cover the costs of the raid and ongoing care of the children and State legal costs.

How is this any different than a neighbor of yours calling DCFS and reporting you for abuse and the State coming in, seizing your family and property, then selling your assets to pay for the raid and foster care of your children, without any concrete evidence of abuse or charges pressed?

Texas doesn't appear to have a clear goal and a plan to achieve it. If laws were broken, they need to target the offenders and swiftly prosecute them.

On the other hand, with their communal structure disrupted, how will the mothers care for the children if they are returned, if the lawbreaking fathers are jailed?

Pretty dicey situation, these children are ones I really feel sorry for.



ELDORADO RAID COSTS
AUSTIN -- Texas lawmakers are scheduled to get their first official look today at the growing cost of the decision last month by law enforcement officers and Child Protective Services officials to take more than 460 youngsters from a polygamist compound near San Angelo. The total cost to taxpayers could top $20 million over the next year, if the children remain in custody that long.
The cost so far
The overtime tab for operations in and around the YFZ (Yearning For Zion) Ranch for the various state agencies involved for the first five weeks is nearly $1.7 million, according to preliminary figures provided Monday by the state Health and Human Services Commission. Lodging, out-of-town meals and transportation have cost nearly $1.2 million. Services such as busing the children from the compound, renting temporary shelter facilities and repaying local governments for their expenses were about $2.4 million.
Ongoing expenses
Health and Human Services officials estimate that providing foster care for the children in state custody will cost $2,123 a month per child. The cost to the state for covering them through Medicaid will be $700 a month. That works out to about $1.3 million a month.
Additional staffing
The state is planning to add 42 child protective caseworkers and 28 related staff members, 10 lawyers and legal assistants, and 16 other staff members to handle the added caseloads. That is expected to cost Texas taxpayers about $425,000 per month.
What's next
A more complete financial outlook is expected when Health and Human Services officials appear before the Senate Finance Committee beginning at 10 a.m. today at the Texas Capitol in Austin.
- John Moritz

[Israel]

How is this any different than a neighbor of yours calling DCFS and reporting you for abuse and the State coming in, seizing your family and property, then selling your assets to pay for the raid and foster care of your children, without any concrete evidence of abuse or charges pressed?


I was starting to think the same thing as the story progressed. It seems to me that if they had reports from specific people about specific people, they should be the only ones involved. Nabbing the whole community at once and trying to sort it out in the courts afterwards is a bit like shooting first and asking questions later.

[DrMoab]

Well...just remember, we are talking about Texas. :D

Maybe there is a reason Utah and Arizona leaves them alone pretty much. maybe they have enough experience to know what kind of hornets nest they could open.

[SCW]

This is a big win for families and 4th amendment. Any time Child Protective Services loses, families win. I hate them nosey bastards, and they have never been to my house.

But I'd still like to see a lot of those men (and women, I don't think they can claim innocence after 18 years old) in jail.

[DrMoab]

This is a big win for families and 4th amendment. Any time Child Protective Services loses, families win. I hate them nosey bastards, and they have never been to my house.

But I'd still like to see a lot of those men (and women, I don't think they can claim innocence after 18 years old) in jail.
Man, I couldn't have said it better myself.

I have had a run in with DSFS and they are horrible people.

When Kirsten was a month old she had a Hemangioma (sp) on her arm and we thought it was broke. The world came down on top of us and they treated us like criminals before they even knew what was wrong with her. Even after the found out it was a natural thing growing in her arm we still got visits to the house. It was humiliating to say the least.

Like you though, I think about 104% of the so called men in the FLDS religion needs to be taken out back of the barn and casterated.

[SCW]

taken out back of the barn and casterated.

Yep. Fireplace tongs and a rusty hatchet. Make the world a better place.

[JeeperG]

Sorry I had to do it. :D
http://i94.photobucket.com/albums/l118/JeeperG/funnay/jailbait.jpg

[dirtybird]

Am i going to hell for laughing at that?^^^^

[stewie]

no, just to the outer darkness

[DaveW]

Am i going to hell for laughing at that?^^^^
You should have plenty of company. :laugh: