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Valve Tapping

S

surfmon

NAXJA Forum User
Location
Pensacola, FL
So I've always had some minor valve tap issues but in the past week it has gotten horrible. I tried to buy some time with an 1/2 Lucas oil change, but it did nothing to stop the tapping.

So I pulled the valve cover and started the motor to try and pinpoint the culprit. It seemed to be coming from #4 cylinder. After I turned the engine off, I began to hear a tapping noise every 3-5 seconds. I felt each rocker arm to see if I could tell where it was coming from. Sure enough, on #4 I could feel the vibration through both rocker arms. This was with the motor off mind you, and it was still making an intermittent tapping noise for about 2 minutes after shutdown.

Anyone ever have this issue before? I realize the head might need to be pulled but what is the danger in pulling valves with the head still on. I need to do something ASAP as I'm using my non daily driver to sub for the XJ right now.

stuck valve?
bent rod?

Thanks for any info
Travis
 
dizzymac said:
I have used Lucas many times and never came up with the results that Bob does. My engine oil has never looked like that, even after draining right after I shut it off. Have used it in a diff. also and looked fine.
Click to expand...

Apples to coconuts.

Do whatever makes you all warm and fuzzy, but you've been warned by a couple of guys that AREN'T trying to sell you anything. :dunno:

IMHO Lucas makes some great products, but this one isn't one of them.

Good Luck!! :cheers:
 
crystalship1 said:
Apples to coconuts.

Do whatever makes you all warm and fuzzy, but you've been warned by a couple of guys that AREN'T trying to sell you anything. :dunno:

IMHO Lucas makes some great products, but this one isn't one of them.

Good Luck!! :cheers:
Click to expand...

First off let's try and this poor guys question, Gess.

I would guess that you have a head gasket leak leaking antifreeze into the cylinder, but that is just a guess on my part. With the engine off, the only remaining source of pressure to cause engine part movement would be the coolant, antifreeze that I knoe of.

I would pull that head immediately if I were you. maybe look for coolant in the oil first.

On the Lucas oil additive, I have never heard anyone who tired Lucas that was not happy with the results. I have been using it for 3 years on my 87, 251,000 miles on it. One guy on here runs straight lucas oil additive for his oil on a worn out 4.0 oil burner and he loves it.

BTOG's Lucas oil additive demo test is not a proper test as I recall for an engine oil additive that would run typically at elevated temperatures. He ran the test at ambient temperatures in its pure state as I recall, both big mistakes for a so called lab test.

I use MMO and Lucas in my 87', 4.0 L engine. The combination has helped me with what was a very loud (originally very loud) valve tap noise at cold engine start up in the mornings. The Lucas has also helped me boost my hot engine oil pressure high enough to give me that warm fuzzy fealing you were making fun of! LOL.

Note, I have also had great success with other snake oils, see the thread I started on "snake oil" a few months ago. I am not selling any of them either!:rolleyes:

I will agree that they won't fix everything, but they can and do work in the right situations.

Jess,

Would a stuck lifter vibrate, or could it vibrate with the engine off???? I am not engine, lifter expert, but I can of, sort of see how one might stick under hydraulic pressure and while stuck with the engine off, might bleed down and sort of move, is that what you are thinking???

If that is the case, he sould try a quart of MMO instead of Lucas and a long hard highway run to help try and unstick it some.
 
If no oil/coolant mix and the head and gasket seems OK I would just change the oil/filter, add 5 qts. of your favorite oil and a qt. of MMO. run it a couple of weeks and repeat, if it seems to be getting better repeat again in another couple of week. MMO is not real aggressive so it takes a little while to work, but if the condition is due sludge build up it will take care of it.
 
dizzymac said:
If no oil/coolant mix and the head and gasket seems OK I would just change the oil/filter, add 5 qts. of your favorite oil and a qt. of MMO. run it a couple of weeks and repeat, if it seems to be getting better repeat again in another couple of week. MMO is not real aggressive so it takes a little while to work, but if the condition is due sludge build up it will take care of it.
Click to expand...

Solid advice!!! .... BTW - MMO stands for "Marvels Mystery Oil" for those were unaware.

http://www.marvelmysteryoil.com/index.php/site/mmo/
:cheers:
 
I still want to know what the hell can make rocker arms vibrate on and engine that has just been turned off???????:scared:
 
Not to hi-jack this MMO/Lucas additive thread, but I have the same problemo on my '92 laredo 4.0. I didn't notice it before I swapped the intake and exhaust manifold out to upgrade. I also did the timing chain, t-stat & housing, and changed over to Mobil-1. Now after I shut the engine off it sounds like clickety clickety clickety from the front of the valve cover. It fades away after a few minutes.

Found a similar thread but no answer here: http://208.101.10.250/~naxjaor1/forum/showthread.php?t=13651&highlight=valve+chatter+noise
 
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Ecomike said:
On the Lucas oil additive, I have never heard anyone who tired Lucas that was not happy with the results. I have been using it for 3 years on my 87, 251,000 miles on it. One guy on here runs straight lucas oil additive for his oil on a worn out 4.0 oil burner and he loves it.

BTOG's Lucas oil additive demo test is not a proper test as I recall for an engine oil additive that would run typically at elevated temperatures. He ran the test at ambient temperatures in its pure state as I recall, both big mistakes for a so called lab test.

Note, I have also had great success with other snake oils, see the thread I started on "snake oil" a few months ago. I am not selling any of them either!:rolleyes:

I will agree that they won't fix everything, but they can and do work in the right situations.

Jess,

Would a stuck lifter vibrate, or could it vibrate with the engine off???? I am not engine, lifter expert, but I can of, sort of see how one might stick under hydraulic pressure and while stuck with the engine off, might bleed down and sort of move, is that what you are thinking???

If that is the case, he sould try a quart of MMO instead of Lucas and a long hard highway run to help try and unstick it some.
Click to expand...
MMO would work better to free a sticking lifter (A stuck lifter meaning oil pressure won't pump the lash out) than lucas. It could be as simple as a clogged oil feed in the block. Or as bad as a failed lifter needing replacement. MMO really works wonders when dealing with a stuck/sticking lifter, it should remove the debris. If your not already using it, I would change to shell rotela to minimize any valve-train issues and add a quart of MMO, like was already pointed out.

Off topic, I still love this wanna be scientist that lied about Lucas. Your 100% correct about the temp issue, it plays a big factor. He only proved that with the internet, you can make dumb people follow you like sheep. Who knows if this idiot is a from a rival company trying to kill a competitor via word of mouth. Thats never happened (right?)!
 
Could be a noisy thermostat opening and closing as the engine cools down.


kooter said:
Not to hi-jack this MMO/Lucas additive thread, but I have the same problemo on my '92 laredo 4.0. I didn't notice it before I swapped the intake and exhaust manifold out to upgrade. I also did the timing chain, t-stat & housing, and changed over to Mobil-1. Now after I shut the engine off it sounds like clickety clickety clickety from the front of the valve cover. It fades away after a few minutes.

Found a similar thread but no answer here: http://208.101.10.250/~naxjaor1/forum/showthread.php?t=13651&highlight=valve+chatter+noise
Click to expand...
 
BillBraski said:
MMO would work better to free a sticking lifter (A stuck lifter meaning oil pressure won't pump the lash out) than lucas. It could be as simple as a clogged oil feed in the block. Or as bad as a failed lifter needing replacement. MMO really works wonders when dealing with a stuck/sticking lifter, it should remove the debris. If your not already using it, I would change to shell rotela to minimize any valve-train issues and add a quart of MMO, like was already pointed out.

Off topic, I still love this wanna be scientist that lied about Lucas. Your 100% correct about the temp issue, it plays a big factor. He only proved that with the internet, you can make dumb people follow you like sheep. Who knows if this idiot is a from a rival company trying to kill a competitor via word of mouth. Thats never happened (right?)!
Click to expand...

I find the Lucas substantially quites my lifter noise on the warmed up engine, and the MMO quites it on the cold start up much sooner than with out it. No doubt the MMO is also doing a gentle slow cleaning job including some slow varnish removal. Also the Lucas restores the viscosity reduction and 1-2 psi hot oil pressure loss that I see with MMO only in my engine.

Well I don't know the guy personally so I will leave the would be scientist comment alone (non of us is perfect, except me of course, :roflmao::laugh2:), but I have enjoyed reading and posting a few times on his forum web site, and opposing opinions are allowed there in his forum, so at least from that standpoint he is doing a good service. In fact sometimes, journalists will write and publish a controversial position statement just to stir debate!!!

As with anything there are usually two sides, or even more to any story, or tech subject (multiple variables....). I noticed two things, IIRC, on that Lucas foaming gear oil additive demo, one was the lack of temperature control and temperature data, the other was they used pure Lucas additive (I think?) , not 1 quart of Lucas to 5 quarts a good motor oil blend, either of which might have elliminated the foaming, air bubble problem as they both would have reduced the viscosity and the apparent (if not real) surface tension which would have reduced if not eliminated the gas bubble trapping at some temperature point or blending point.

If I could find a good quality blended 20W60 or 20W70 oil with extra MMO ingredients, extra detergents (like the Diesel oils have), and extra ZDDP in it, I would probably use JUST it, like BTOG suggests, and I would give up my favorite snake oil additives, but for now one of my secrets to keeping very old engines alive and well for a long, long time is the right combination of snake oil additives added at the right time, and right amounts, with regular oil and filter changes. :D
 
hey guys just my 2 cents
i have the same noise,and it sounds so bad some times that i think that this will be the last trip with my baby.i found this product at canadian tire,it is called whinnes(not sure if that is the exact spelling sorry)engine tune up. it frees stuck lifters or what ever causes that damn noise!it comes in a pop shaped can,with purple lines on it.i use it after every oil change, it takes only ten minutes for it to work and poof! no more noise! it is not really oil though i believe,it is transparent in color,and very liqiud.oh by the way,it smells like hell!dont spill it in youre jeep! oh and wait maybe it is spelled wynnes? dunno check it out though:callme:
 
outlander said:
I think the clicking noise you guys are hearing after you turn your engines off is the metal contracting because its cooling down.....its normal.
Click to expand...

X2, I listened to mine today and that was the main noise. But these engines are haunted by ghosts IMHO. Mine use to sound like a dripping, draining faucet everytime I shut it off. Don't hear that one anymore, MMO must have cleaned it up.

I know I heard the thermostat short cycle at least once on mine when the coolant and engine were just right after shutdown, probalby when I was working on it.

They are like old haunted houses, noisy and scarry sometimes!!!:eek:
 
Yep thats the only thing it could be with the motor not running......there would be no way for the valve train to make ANY noise with the motor off.Unless the lifter is so varnished up that the hydraulic piston inside the lifter intermittenly sticks while its bleeding off pressure,that would be a new one to me....

and I will second the notion that MMO works and is not snake oil.It cured my lifter tap on my 89 within 450 miles.
 
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