wj knuckles and spacer

I have been looking at numerous d30 builds and see that the wj outer knuckles need to have a spacer installed to keep the u joint in correct relation to the knuckle. the one build up used machined spacers and machined hubs. i cant figure out how the spacer is installed as it looks like it sits inside the knuckle. if it does than how does the hub install inside the space correctly without being machined down?

I see how the hub is machined down on the mating surface. is it machined for the clearance that the spacer takes up to be installed in the hub? sorry for the confusion as i'm sure this post is hard to follow.

would using wj hubs solve the spacer issue and if so what would be different in using the wj hubs. would wj knuckles, wj calipers, and new rotors solve the spacer issue. with that setup would a zj tie rod work?

I used WJ outers with a .250" spacer between the hub and knuckle. I didn't go for the machined hubs due to having to remachine a new one everytime they go bad. In the pic you can see where the spacer flange is welded to the knuckle.


As far as steering goes I went with OTK One ton.

pardon my stupidity but when you say wj outers you mean hubs right? so i think you mean you don't have to machine the hubs becuase you used wj hubs and it fits directly into the wj knuckle. why is the spacer needed then. i know it is to space out the rotor so the caliper and pads line up but if i use wj knuckles hubs rotors and calipers wouldnt all those distances line up?

btw beautiful weld on that spacer. pre heat post heat? tig? how did you make the spacer?

X10 on the welding,nice work!

tsill said:

pardon my stupidity but when you say wj outers you mean hubs right? so i think you mean you don't have to machine the hubs becuase you used wj hubs and it fits directly into the wj knuckle. why is the spacer needed then. i know it is to space out the rotor so the caliper and pads line up but if i use wj knuckles hubs rotors and calipers wouldnt all those distances line up?

Click to expand...

By 'outers' he means knuckles. Most use the XJ hubs so that the bolt pattern stays the same. The spacer is used to space the hub out to keep the u-joint out of a bind.

tsill said:

btw beautiful weld on that spacer. pre heat post heat? tig? how did you make the spacer?

Click to expand...

You buy the spacers (along with all the rest of the parts you need) from JKS.

http://www.jksmfg.com/

ok so i think i have it now but want to clarify. if i get wj knuckles, calipers, rotors and pads, and use the spacer then i use the xj hub to keep the same bolt pattern for the wheels done deal.

if i use the above parts and swap the smaller xj hub for the larger wj hub then i need to have the hub machined down to fit in the knuckle? i just can't seem to understand why the wj knuckle needs machined down if it is going into the same wj knuckle it came out of.

thanks for the link cal. i found the spacers and this is what jks says:
Upgrade the brakes and steering linkage on your Cherokee XJ to newer Grand Cherokee WJ components with our Flange Spacer. Specifically designed to accommodate the OE knuckles, brake calipers, tie rod, and drag link, our spacer is an economical way to breathe new life into your Cherokee.

so how about the zj tie rod and stock steering otk?

Below are pics of the spacers I had made. Being in SA, buying these things from JKS wasn't feasible, so I took my knuckles to a place that does lazer cutting and they did these two for me:




I also had the engineering shop do the tapered inserts on the knuckles for the tierod flips:


Wrt the ZJ tierod being used - as I have it the ZJ uses the same steering setup as the XJ (inverted Y) and thus I guess it'd be a bit short.

(PS. let me know if the pics don't appear as I've linked them from a site I previously posted on, but not sure if they'll appear if not a member there....)

tsill said:

ok so i think i have it now but want to clarify. if i get wj knuckles, calipers, rotors and pads, and use the spacer then i use the xj hub to keep the same bolt pattern for the wheels done deal.

if i use the above parts and swap the smaller xj hub for the larger wj hub then i need to have the hub machined down to fit in the knuckle? i just can't seem to understand why the wj knuckle needs machined down if it is going into the same wj knuckle it came out of.

thanks for the link cal. i found the spacers and this is what jks says:
Upgrade the brakes and steering linkage on your Cherokee XJ to newer Grand Cherokee WJ components with our Flange Spacer. Specifically designed to accommodate the OE knuckles, brake calipers, tie rod, and drag link, our spacer is an economical way to breathe new life into your Cherokee.

so how about the zj tie rod and stock steering otk?

Click to expand...

the WJ hub, while a little larger, isn't going to benefit you anything major, and you have to have it redrilled to 5x4.5 to run your current wheels. You would run the WJ hub with no spacer, but the stub axle will *barely* fit through it, not allowing you the security washer or cotter pin. Hope that axle nut never works loose - it barely goes on!


I guess you could use your stock steering, but you would give up half the benefit of this upgrade, and you could not flip your stock steering over the knuckle.

Trust me, just build new steering. JKS sells the links pre-made, and you can buy the WJ tie rod ends at autozone.

You want:

WJ knuckles
.250" spacer from JKS welded on (WELD IT!)

WJ rotors
redrill them to 5x4.5 bolt pattern

2000+ model year XJ / TJ unit bearings

JKS over the axle trackbar bracket

New trackbar
JKS sells a kit, part OGS951
Use this with RE HD trackbar mount and brace for best end resulst

WJ calipers
Dont forget to get the caliper mounts! seperate piece.

XJ/TJ stub axles


Steering, there are a lot of options. Most people run JKS links and WJ tie rod / drag link ends, flipped with GOFERIT inserts. Some people build their own with rod ends. I run a JKS tie rod with WJ ends flipped, and a custom draglink with chevy high misalignment draglink ends.

You can do this conversion in 'less expensive' ways, but you are going to get yourself in trouble if you try and do it in 'cheap' ways.

2x on what Cal said. If you buy the complete kit from the dealer. You'll get the mounts, calipers, pads and hardware.(that's what I did, $240 for the kit).You'll need longer hardware to attach the mounts to the knuckles, beacuse you need to space them .250" out more. I forget the # off hand but to a google search for Wj brakes and it'll pop up in a TSB for the WJ's.


How much you'll spend on WJ ends and flip inserts your just better off running a one ton setup. Cheaper and stronger.


Oh and thanks for the weld comments.

The 1-ton TREs, bungs, jam nuts and reamer alone cost me $250.

It was well worth it.

Any of you guys running a WJ pitman arm?

I'm not. Dropped XJ arm. Not sure how much.

lowrange2 said:

I'm not. Dropped XJ arm. Not sure how much.

Click to expand...

And by your pic you have to much drop(pitman arm)!

krawler said:

2x on what Cal said. If you buy the complete kit from the dealer. You'll get the mounts, calipers, pads and hardware.(that's what I did, $240 for the kit).You'll need longer hardware to attach the mounts to the knuckles, beacuse you need to space them .250" out more. I forget the # off hand but to a google search for Wj brakes and it'll pop up in a TSB for the WJ's.


How much you'll spend on WJ ends and flip inserts your just better off running a one ton setup. Cheaper and stronger.


Oh and thanks for the weld comments.

Click to expand...

so caliper mounts, calipers, pads, and hardware for both sides is 240.00? so then i still need the knuckles and steering. with bearings and r&p this sure is getting near the 1000.00 mark quick. knuckles seem to be 125 per side at the yard for "anything that hangs the suspension" is what the yard told me. i'm thinking about spending the money on a welder and doing a 44 for what i'm gonna have in this thing.

anyone have a small miller mig and have suggestions as to what works? something that does a 3/8" pass will be o.k.? those seem to be around 350.00 and if that will get most of my stuff welded that would be sweet.

Well I have the followinf into my HP D30
WJ outers $100
WJ new calipers, brackets and pads $240
WJ rotors $40
4.88 Dana 30 R&P $150
Dana 30 install kit $75
JKS OTA Trac bar bracket $45
JKS flange sapcers $36
New Uni bearings NAPA $150
$836 plus another $600 for an ARB comp and carrier I've had on the shelf for the last 1.5 years.

tsill said:

anyone have a small miller mig and have suggestions as to what works? something that does a 3/8" pass will be o.k.? those seem to be around 350.00 and if that will get most of my stuff welded that would be sweet.

Click to expand...

Miller 140, runs on 110v and uses argon/co2 mix... they run on ebay for about 600 bucks shipped... you should look at hobart as well.

Oh and Krawler really nice welds... I wish mine were half that nice...

cal said:

You buy the spacers (along with all the rest of the parts you need) from JKS.

http://www.jksmfg.com/

Click to expand...

know is that $20 for one or two? im confused
http://store.jksmfg.com/merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=FAB_930&Store_Code=JKS01&Category_Code=FABParts