CAN YOU BELIEVE THESE PEOPLE

WE GOT THIS TODAY FRM MY C.O.
man i realize it may have been a bad judgement call to go there but come on leave us military guys alone we had nthing to do with deciding that....plus blocking one recruiting station is only gonna make traffic hell thats it.......seriously .....
sorry if im whining but it just gets at me sometimes not trying to offend anyone here

Protestors intend to Shutdown the Tacoma Mall

Recommend that DOD affiliated personnel, family members, retirees and civilians avoid the Tacoma Mall area on 15 March 2008 from 1200 to 1730 hours.

Local protest groups have announced their intention to shutdown the Tacoma Mall and the recruiting station located at the mall to call attention to the upcoming anniversary of the start of the Iraq War. They want to “Make it impossible for business as usual to continue as the Iraq War approaches its 5th year.”

Anticipated activities include distributing ant war and anti military literature, confront local recruiters or persons trying to enter their facilities, and attempts to interact with soldiers, family members and/or civilians who appear to be military or have DOD decals on their vehicles.

Recent protests against the war at the Port of Olympia have been marked by increased levels of violence. DOD personnel, family members and civilians should avoid contact, to include conversations or dialogue with protesters. Protesters may be filming activities for reporting in independent media or use in legal actions.

Commanders and supervisors should strongly encourage their soldiers, family members, and civilians to avoid the Tacoma Mall area during this time and to report incidents of violence to local police.

For incidents of violence, call 911
For non-critical information, contact Washington State Police at (253) 536-6210 or Tacoma Police Department at (253) 594-7800.

They should focus there attention on the damn government if they want to complain about something and leave the Military out of it.. Like the military has anything to do with the decision to go over there.

Ha. wow. Gotta love people. Damn protesters.

yeah, i've seen that posted in the hangar. pretty rediculous to me. it's not like that recruiting center or mall can make the decisions to get out of the mid east. just plain silly to me.

I/We may not agree with either the opinion or forum of the event. Obviously there may be better ways of demonstrating.

However, this is one of the VERY important rights that we must not forget is what makes this country so great.

Michael

2xtreme said:

However, this is one of the VERY important rights that we must not forget is what makes this country so great.

Click to expand...

You are totally wrong.

Freedom of speech is an essiental American right...shutting down a mall and not allowing other Americans to exercise their rights is simply facism.

-----Matt-----

IXNAYXJ said:

You are totally wrong.

Freedom of speech is an essiental American right...shutting down a mall and not allowing other Americans to exercise their rights is simply facism.

-----Matt-----

Click to expand...

You can disagree with me (this is not even remotely associated with facism or any other dictatorship form of government, you should be able to come up with a much better relationship than that!) however it is not just the "Freedom of speech" that is so critical. It is what that "Freedom of speech" includes that makes this place so great (and I will agree, frustrating at times also).

Michael

I say just close the place for the day and go have beers. Make sure there is a BIG NEON "OPEN" sign in the window that is turned on. Then lock the door and go to the bar. Or play golf. Or assemble a ship in a bottle.

Problem solved.

Freedom of speech is what allows societies to correct themselves before they make really bad judgment errors. I can appreciate that avoiding conflict with civilians is important for the military but I am saddened that
there is a widening gulf between the protectors and the protected. I think it is actually important for the protesters to understand and respect our heroes and it is important for our heroes to understand that they should also be part of the discussion as voting participants in our democracy. This notion that we support the government right or wrong is totally unamerican. I say that as a naturalized American who takes my responsibilities as a citizen seriously.

I am really tired of those who think that troop support equates to blind support for government policy. I am more tired of those who hold the actual members of the military personally responsible for the decisions of our leaders.
Democracy really is about getting the government we deserve but hopefully everyone makes an informed choice which historically has been helped when people talk to each other. When there is isolation and divisiveness such as the class crap that seems to be creeping in as we become more the haves and the have nots then we just end up with a load of extreme positions and no real sensible way of moving forward.

Anyway blah blah... Feel better exercising my First Amendment right.

“Many forms of government have been tried and will be tried in this world of sin and woe. No one pretends that democracy is perfect or all wise. Indeed, it has been said that democracy is the worst form of government, except for all the others that have been tried from time to time. - Winston Churchill, 1947"

By the way in a less serious vein. This kind of relates to the whole judgment thing and is one of the funniest videos I have seen for a while.

(language caution)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DJPUfJ1D5ok

IXNAYXJ said:

You are totally wrong.

Freedom of speech is an essiental American right...shutting down a mall and not allowing other Americans to exercise their rights is simply facism.

-----Matt-----

Click to expand...

There is some brilliance in protesting the Mall. MONEY Always makes people pay attentionl IF they were to stage a peaceful drum circle it wouldn't get nearly the hype as this has already.

If they pull it off, it will make national news. I hope there is some bra burning.. and nudity.. at least make it interesting...

nickguy said:

By the way in a less serious vein. This kind of relates to the whole judgment thing and is one of the funniest videos I have seen for a while.

(language caution)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DJPUfJ1D5ok

Click to expand...

I haven't seen that in a long time. Thanks,

Fing kangaroos.

2xtreme said:

(this is not even remotely associated with facism or any other dictatorship form of government, you should be able to come up with a much better relationship than that!)

Click to expand...

A minority of people telling a majority that what they believe is correct and not allowing the other group to exercise their rights (by going to the mall, enlisting in the armed forces, etc) doesn't sound like facism to you? Hmmmm.

:dunno:

What don't you understand?

-----Matt-----

IXNAYXJ said:

A minority of people telling a majority that what they believe is correct and not allowing the other group to exercise their rights (by going to the mall, enlisting in the armed forces, etc) doesn't sound like facism to you? Hmmmm.

:dunno:

What don't you understand?

-----Matt-----

Click to expand...

No that is not fascism.

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/fascism

I always heard that antiwar protesters were communists...

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/communism


But I actually think they are anarchists.

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/anarchist

Think we have to be careful of the labels that we throw out. It is not that simple. This all reminds me of 1984.


Some quotes.

When I use a word,” Humpty Dumpty said in rather a scornful tone, “it means just what I choose it to mean — neither more nor less.”
“The question is,” said Alice, “whether you can make words mean so many different things.”
“The question is,” said Humpty Dumpty, “which is to be master— that’s all.”
–Lewis Carroll, Through the Looking-Glass, and What Alice Found There, ch. 6 (1871)

Political language -- and with variations this is true of all political parties, from Conservatives to Anarchists -- is designed to make lies sound truthful and murder respectable, and to give an appearance of solidity to pure wind.
George Orwell, "Politics and the English Language", 1946

The man who also said...

People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf.

IXNAYXJ said:

A minority of people telling a majority that what they believe is correct and not allowing the other group to exercise their rights (by going to the mall, enlisting in the armed forces, etc) doesn't sound like facism to you? Hmmmm.

:dunno:

What don't you understand?

-----Matt-----

Click to expand...

We could argue over who is the majority and minority till we are blue in the face, and I don't think it is really relevant here anyhow.

Exactly how is this "minority" NOT allowing the "majority" to exercise their rights? By speeking in front of a public place about their opinion!?!?

Now, if it was the government that was stopping (physically) the "people" either minority or majority I think you might be on to something

What don't I understand?
The more I learn, the more I find I don't understand as much as I would like:laugh3: .........I would like to understand more

Nickguy, VERY nice posts!!

Michael

Headline said:

Protestors intend to Shutdown the Tacoma Mall

Click to expand...

2xtreme said:

By speeking in front of a public place about their opinion!?!?

Click to expand...

Not the same thing. This really isn't that complex.

-----Matt-----

Well.. They must have flaked out.. or it turned into a bunch of hippies smoking and playing drums.. Which isn't so bad... I am just too old for that any more..

Too bad... Its always cool to see a group of people work together to support a common cause. I was hoping they would cause a big stink...

May be some flashing and random bra burning.. that always makes the news..



We should vote....

I think Micheal wins.. Matt better luck next post:bs:

IXNAYXJ said:

Not the same thing. This really isn't that complex.

-----Matt-----

Click to expand...

If you read the whole posted print, you might find that the Headline you posted is NOT the acurate story and is most likely writen in a way to attract attention and add drama to the situation.

Anticipated activities include distributing ant war and anti military literature, confront local recruiters or persons trying to enter their facilities, and attempts to interact with soldiers, family members and/or civilians who appear to be military or have DOD decals on their vehicles.

Click to expand...

What about there actions is not "speeking in front a public place about their opinions"?

I/We might not like what they want to TRY to talk to you about, but this is well within their rights, and in my belief,for very good reason. You don't have to listen, they can't legally stop you from doing what you were doing, and they have as much right to be there as the rest of us do.

Michael

2xtreme said:

If you read the whole posted print, you might find that the Headline you posted is NOT the acurate story and is most likely writen in a way to attract attention and add drama to the situation.



What about there actions is not "speeking in front a public place about their opinions"?

I/We might not like what they want to TRY to talk to you about, but this is well within their rights, and in my belief,for very good reason. You don't have to listen, they can't legally stop you from doing what you were doing, and they have as much right to be there as the rest of us do.

Michael

Click to expand...

While they have the right to say what they want to say (and I've no desire to take that right away from them,) they have no right to interfere with people peaceably going about their business - and that's what they end up doing. Once that step is taken, expect there to be trouble.

I didn't have a problem with the anti-war protesters of Storm II - but I did have a problem with one of the jackasses throwing himself on the hood of my truck. I further took issue with his indignance as I stopped, plucked him off my hood, and threw him into the weeds.

If you want to carry signs and blather on about whatever, that's your own lookout. As soon as you're trying to block traffic or just generally interfere with people going about their business, it's not longer a "peaceable assembly" and all bets are off.

5-90 said:

As soon as you're trying to block traffic or just generally interfere with people going about their business, it's not longer a "peaceable assembly" and all bets are off.

Click to expand...

Absolutely. The one statement about their intent to "confront military recruiters", confront them about what, and in what way? Holler annoying insults? Get in their faces and start a confrontation? What is the point of "confronting" military recruiters? They have zero say in any of the policy that's being protested, they're just service personnel doing their job, i.e. talking to potential enlistees about what their branch of the service offers and signing them up if they so choose to enlist. And it is a choice. The military and ex-military people i know and have known over the years are 99% proud of their enlistment, have a lot of great memories, and still support the armed services and enlisted personnel.


I just don't see an upside to a bunch of people with nothing better to do than harass people who have nothing to do with the policies they're protesting.