rod ends or tre's?

whitneyj · Mar 12, 2008

so I've been working some things over and before I ream out my knuckles for otk steering, which one is going to provide better strength/longevity? Rod ends or TRE's? rod ends are quite a bit cheaper than TRE's and are alot more flexible, so that makes me lean toward those. It's just the strength issue I'm worried about.

JNickel101 · Mar 12, 2008

I think TREs would last longer...but I dont think strength is an issue with rod ends/heim joints. I'm gonna be doing a WJ knuckle swap going OTK and I think I'm gonna use rod ends/heim joints. but then again, if you're going over the knuckle, flexibility wont really be problem...

hmm...now you have me thinking...

I think another thing to consider is what will give you "tighter" feeling steering...?

sgtmack · Mar 12, 2008

From my limited experience, rod ends felt tight and worked well when they were new, but after a year and a half of DD, started to loosen up a little. But they were cheap and easy to replace. They were about the only thing cheap and easy on the CJ. The easy part is why I'll be using rod ends when I do my new steering. Just don't go really cheap. Good ones are about $30,00 each, and worth it.

Neal

whitneyj · Mar 12, 2008

not sure about the tighter feeling steering. . . if you go single sheer with the drag link to the knuckle I could see a problem with that reaming out the knuckle. . . thoughts?

whitneyj · Mar 12, 2008

that's what I figured on the rod ends, mine isn't a DD anymore, so the rod ends seem to be the winner here. How did you run your steering on your CJ?

cal · Mar 12, 2008

Based on my experiances..

On a street rig I'd go 1 ton TRE's, as when you are in a pinch you can get them ANYWHERE.

On a trailered rig I'd go rod ends.

Goatman · Mar 12, 2008

Strength is not an issue. When's the last time you saw a race car or desert race truck that was using TRE's? They don't, they all use rod ends. Rod ends are much easier to use for fabricating, just pay the money and get good ones and they will last a long time. They might not last as long as TRE's, especially depending on the climate you live in, but they are easy to check for wear and are safe even when worn. Personally, I've seen many more TRE's fail on trail rigs than rod ends, mostly due to the TRE's wearing from too much movement and not being checked for wear often enough.

Really, it's personal preference. Both will work well. I use rod ends on the XJ. I tried using TRE's on the buggy, but gave up and went to rod ends because of how I had to do the steering.

JNickel101 · Mar 12, 2008

What's a bad climate for rod ends? I dont know much about them, sorry...

cal · Mar 12, 2008

Goatman said:
Strength is not an issue. When's the last time you saw a race car or desert race truck that was using TRE's? They don't, they all use rod ends. Rod ends are much easier to use for fabricating, just pay the money and get good ones and they will last a long time. They might not last as long as TRE's, especially depending on the climate you live in, but they are easy to check for wear and are safe even when worn. Personally, I've seen many more TRE's fail on trail rigs than rod ends, mostly due to the TRE's wearing from too much movement and not being checked for wear often enough.

Really, it's personal preference. Both will work well. I use rod ends on the XJ. I tried using TRE's on the buggy, but gave up and went to rod ends because of how I had to do the steering.

I totally agree (at this point..). My advice is based totally on autozone and checker having a poor supply of rod ends on hand when you're driving home from the trail and cant keep strait on the highway.

whitneyj · Mar 12, 2008

how do most people mount them? I've seen them mounted single sheer with a long bolt off the knuckle, which I could see ruining the knuckel over time. I've also seen them mounted on the tierod itself, which seems to be a stronger setup . . .

a wet, gritty climate isn't probably to good for them.

Goatman · Mar 12, 2008

whitneyj said:
not sure about the tighter feeling steering. . . if you go single sheer with the drag link to the knuckle I could see a problem with that reaming out the knuckle. . . thoughts?

It can't happen, unless you drill a lousy hole and don't keep the bolt tight. The standard setup uses a 5/8 grade 8 bolt, which can take well over 200 ft lbs of torque, and if torqued properly is extremely strong. Most problems (still rare) with single shear setups are from the bolt not being torqued tight enough. The friction from the bolt torque to the joint and the matting surface is what carries the load, not the bolt itself, the bolt simply supplies the torque so it's load is only in stretch, not in bend as can be commonly thought.

Steering feel has nothing to do with what joint you use, as both a TRE or rod end are tight. Looseness in the steering comes from steering design or from badly worn parts, not from the type of components used.

Goatman · Mar 12, 2008

cal said:
I totally agree (at this point..). My advice is based totally on autozone and checker having a poor supply of rod ends on hand when you're driving home from the trail and cant keep strait on the highway.

Hmmm......what happened to carrying spare parts in your box?

cal · Mar 12, 2008

Goatman said:
Hmmm......what happened to carrying spare parts in your box?

I'm still re-gather spares after spreading them over the lakebed in the rain?

Yeah. I carry a ton of spares, and in retrospect wish I had built my current setup with rod ends. When I put the hydro assist in I'll probably re-do it.

jrsxj98 · Mar 12, 2008

I have been running rod ends for about to years now w/o any problems. As stated spend the money and get good ones. I run the QA1's. and care a couple spares. The spares are still new by the way. This is on a combo daily driver/trail rig.

whitneyj · Mar 12, 2008

how do people run a 5/8" bolt? when I ream out my knuckles I'll have a 3/4" hole. do they sleeve it?

Goatman · Mar 12, 2008

Just drill a 5/8 hole. My XJ has a D44 with high steer arms now, but when I did OTK steering on the old D30, I drilled out the taper in the knuckle and used 5/8 bolts. I thought the big end of the taper was fine to drill to 5/8.

On the buggy, which had 1 ton TRE's, on one of the many steering setups I did before getting it right I just welded up the taper and then drilled it to 5/8. Of course, this was on a high steer arm that I could put in the drill press, not on a knuckle. It actually worked well to drill out the weld, as the weld material was harder and it made a stronger hole.

whitneyj · Mar 12, 2008

I've got an hpd44 out of 74 ford. . . the taper starts at 3/4". . . I'd also rather not fill in the knuckle and drill it out to 5/8", don't trust my welding with cast.

four_shot · Mar 12, 2008

jrsxj98 said:
I have been running rod ends for about to years now w/o any problems. As stated spend the money and get good ones. I run the QA1's. and care a couple spares. The spares are still new by the way. This is on a combo daily driver/trail rig.

do they use salt in colorado or just sand in the winter.....Ive see many a suspension part selfdestruct due to exposure to winter salt spray.

gump · Mar 13, 2008

I just got done building the steering for my rig. Doing the hp44/9" swap, I went with 3/4" FK rod ends for the drag link and the tie rod, 1.5" x .25" wall DOM tubing for both. Drilled out the knuckles and pitman arm to 3/4", ran the bolts through, done. I like the simplicity of it.

Goatman · Mar 13, 2008

whitneyj said:
I've got an hpd44 out of 74 ford. . . the taper starts at 3/4". . . I'd also rather not fill in the knuckle and drill it out to 5/8", don't trust my welding with cast.

You get a little more misalignment with a 3/4x5/8 rod end, and they are stronger than a 3/4x3/4. But, if you can get the misalignment you need on the drag link out of a 3/4x3/4 rod end, there's no reason not to run them. If you need a lot of misalignment at the knuckle for the drag link you may need to run a 3/4 rod end with high misalignment spacers that reduce it down to a 5/8 bolt.

If you run inverted T rather than inverted Y, then you don't need high misalignment out of the rod ends. But, if you don't run high steer arms then the angle of the drag link will be more and the inverted T can have more twist in the tie rod, which can cause some slop. If the drag link doesn't have much angle, inverted T is great (with the drag link on tabs on top of the tie rod), but if the drag link has more angle, then inverted Y works better but you might need high misalignment spacers for the drag link at the knuckle.......and a 5/8 bolt, or put a slight bend in the end of the drag link to minimize the misalignment.

Either way, use a QA1 double adjuster.........on the drag link if inverted Y and on the tie rod if inverted T.

rod ends or tre's?

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