suggestions for brake upgrade

I'm looking to upgrade my brakes on my '98 XJ. They aren't good in dry conditions and much worse when wet. They were mediocre before I lifted it and stuffed 33's under there but with the added weight I have difficulty stopping. The pads look good and wheel cylinders seem to work fine, plenty of fluid and Ebrake locks them up tight.

Some guys claim upgrading the front with Powerslots and Hawk ceramic pads works well - so that's an option. I have D35 rear (9" I believe). I would love to upgrade to D44 but I don't have the funds. Other than possible disc conversion, what suggestions do you guys have?

I would do the rear disc conv. Then when you get the funds to upgrade the rear you can swap them over. I couldn't believe the difference in braking when I did the swap. JIM.

x2 on the Hawk Ceramic pads. Since you have a D35, its easy to get a rear disc conversion from the junkyard and it does help. How dark is your brake fluid? If its brown or black, its time to pump it all out and add new fluid.

Thanks for the info fellas. To be honest, I haven't really checked the color of the brake fluid - I only checked the level of fluid. Since I got this truck from a Sheriffs Dept I would think that they would be serviced regularly but I have replaced tranny and diff fluids, oil and filter, flushed radiator, and replaced serpentine belt.:doh:

I did the ZJ rear disk conversion on my 98 and it helped immensely...but my rear drums were horrible and not adjusting right. I would absolutely do it again. It was a $200 modification that I could feel.

if you want hawk pads and crossdrilled rotors I have a new set to sell...otherwise I suggest that you go with the Vanco big brake upgrade up front and just keep your rear brakes in good condition. If you get a rear D44 then upgrade to disc brakes in the back, but the Vanco kit will take care of your problems. Try searching for a thread I started about them (brake upgrades). Best investment I ever made in this Jeep...

Thanks, I'll check that thread on Vanco big brake and get back to you on the Hawks.

I never tried the Hawks, I've heard good things and bad....let me know, they are on a For Sale post somewhere here but I have the crossdrilled rotors (they are a goldish color), the best quality I could find, but I never got even close to installing them, I can check the brand when I'm home next week.

I know it's been a little while since the last post, but I talked to one of the guys from Hawk yesterday. He recommends their new LTS pads for XJs, especially lifted/armored/heavy XJs. If you can't afford those, their HPS pads still are good and much better than stock. He doesn't recommend the Ceramic pads at all, from any manufacturer. They may have less noise and less dust, but also less friction performance than the HPS/LTS pads.

For SUVs and light trucks...
LTS= stopping power 10, rotor/pad wear 9, noise 9, dust 8.
HPS=stopping power 9, rotor/pad wear 8, noise, 8, dust 8.
Ceramic=stopping power 8, rotor/pad wear 8, noise 9, dust, 9.

He also said that there is no standard for "Ceramic" brakes. Just put in a little silica content and you can call it "Ceramic". Hawk pads typically have 7% or more silica content, but some brands have less than 2%. So that's why you see el-cheapo "Ceramic racing" brakes in the ricer aisle at Pep Boys

Dual-diaphram booster, if you havent already.

The ability to "lock-up" the brakes does not indicate sufficient or desirable braking capability.

Doing the rears will improve the overall braking, but not in any significant amount. Better, yes, noticable, yes, significant, not really.

Vanco fronts yield an order of magnitude improvement. Nothing can beat this short of a total custom fabbed suspension. It will change the way you drive, all for the better.

Oh, but its expensive, wah, wah, wah. Whats more important, the stereo or the safety?

I have a 98 XJ so I'm pretty sure that I have a dual diaphragm booster stock. I looked into the Vanco system and it sure sounds good - gets great reviews too but dumping a thousand bucks into brakes is really going to hurt the wallet. Then again, if my brakes really suck, I might be shelling out a lot more money or worse if somebody gets hurt.

I may have to look into those LTS pads. A lot of guys are saying that upgrading the front brakes will get you much better stopping power than upgrading the rear. I will also take a look around at a few local junkers to see if I can spot a ford 8.8 to get some discs in back. I want to get rid of my D35 anyway - this way I can convince the wife that it's in the interest of safety.

Thanks for the feedback - its muchly appreciated

whatevah said:

I know it's been a little while since the last post, but I talked to one of the guys from Hawk yesterday. He recommends their new LTS pads for XJs, especially lifted/armored/heavy XJs.

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He recommended his own product, what a shocker.

EMSJEEP said:

He recommended his own product, what a shocker.

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hardy har.

I was replying to the suggestions about the Ceramic pads. If you're looking at Hawk pads for an XJ, then the recommended pads are the LTS pads. If you're not looking at Hawk pads, then who cares?

From what I hear the best brakes you are going to find are stock, or a rotor size and caliper upgrade, all the other stuff...think of it as chrome...

I put on new rotors with LTS pads last year and it made a pretty big improvement over stock. I'll let you know if it was sufficient when I lift it next month.

EMSJEEP said:

From what I hear the best brakes you are going to find are stock, or a rotor size and caliper upgrade, all the other stuff...think of it as chrome...

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you may hear it, but it's not true. Maybe if you're talking about brakes on a sports car compared to the cheapo pads at Pep Boys. My brothers stock pads on his Caliber RT blow away the stock pads on my XJ, and my buddies 2006 350Z puts the Caliber brakes to shame. I'd hate to see what cheapo brakes would do to the performance on the 350Z. Sure, some of the stuff out there is worthless, but good rotors like Powerslot and good pads like the HPS and LTS pads are a nice upgrade for XJ brakes. The drilled rotors seem to not be worth it for many applications, per talks with Stainless Steel Brakes and Hawk, but good slotted rotors are worth it. I won't even talk about racing pads, since nobody can argue that the Hawk racing pads aren't much better than the stock pads used in most sports cars, since stock pads are all designed for street use.

I agree, no way in hell the stock brakes are gonna hold a candle to some HPS pads and slotted rotors. I've upgraded my front and rear brakes on my 03 Mustang GT to all Cobra sized brakes, plus HPS pads in the front, and the braking is 10 times better. The guy I bought my Jeep from said he recently replaced the pads and I think he mentioned the rotors, but I felt them yesterday and they are horribly grooved in the front. I'll be getting new front rotors very soon and possibl some HPS pads. Hopefully it'll help the braking because the 32's don't help at all.

Are they better in your minds just because they happen to be new brakes and you were using some old worn out set of pads and rotors? I was thinking more of rotors as far as stock vs. oversized, I didn't mean to say stock brake pads are anything wonderful. That said, powerslot and crossdrilled type rotors only decrease the contact surface. By putting a groove into your rotor you have now decreased that area out of contact with the pad, why, to vent gasses? How fast do you go and how hard do you brake that this is a major issue for you? Maybe if your Jeep regularly goes better than 120mph for long distances...otherwise it is a waste. Sure upgrade the pads, but remember not evey aftermarket pad is necessarily an UPgrade. Otherwise I would advise to do nothing with the rotors except stay stock or get a bigger one....
The pressure the pad exerts on the rotor, which causes friction, which causes your Jeep to stop, is dependent on the area of contact between the two surfaces and when the pressure decreases friction decreases.....

Sure pads may help to some degree, but it is solutions to pressure (master cylinder upgrades and hydro) and (uniform) contact surface (dual cylinder calipers, larger rotors and pads) that are going to make the real difference.

...also not sure why we are talking about a 350Z....?

what about the 99-04 Grand Cherokee booster/master swap? Im looking into doing it soon, and Ive heard it makes a big difference. Rear disk would definitely make a huge difference though.

99XJWhitey said:

what about the 99-04 Grand Cherokee booster/master swap? Im looking into doing it soon, and Ive heard it makes a big difference. Rear disk would definitely make a huge difference though.

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I went to Sport Trac calipers, Explorer rear, Ebc green pads, and WJ booster and master along with matching proportioning valve and I have got to say they stop like a new sports car. I tried the hawk pads and did not like them at all. In the trash they went.The stock Ford pads were better.