High PSI air tanks instead of Powertank

tkjeeper · Feb 10, 2008

Like I have advertised here I have several fire department surplus tanks that I'm selling. They are fibreglass wrapped over aluminum. Tested at over 7000 psi and rated to continually carry 4500 psi. My question for you power CO2 tank users is why would this not be comparable to your setup? It seems to me that 4500 psi of air would fill a tonne of tires and run an air tool for a long time wouldn't it? What would be the advantages or disadvantages of an air tank as opposed to a CO2 system?

Stallacrew · Feb 10, 2008

CO2 at 4500 or 7000 psi is under enough pressure to undergo a phase change from a gas to a liquid. Compressing air or oxygen takes far far more to turn liquid. There is CO2 in the air but not enought to change the partial pressure and liquify. Air is made of mostly Nitrogen and Oxygen with a few others mixed in there.
So to the advantage/disadvantage part...... CO2 has to make that phase change back to a gas from liquid before it's any good to you. This means that the tank gets COLD if you empty it quickly you can freeze the tank or freeze the lines if you do it improporly. CO2 is less efficient than compressed air or nitrogen.
Compressed air at 4500 or 7000 psi still stay a gas and is johnny on the spot when you need to use it. Thus paintballers ( like myself) use it to run through their guns cause of less moisture in their equipment dues to the condensation, more reliable, more consistant, and doesn't have that CO2 smell ( which I happen to like).
In all, using my not so vast bank of knowledge ( just kidding I stand behind everything I just said) I would absolutely 100% recommend to anyone and choose myself, the air/nitrogen route. More PSI's than CO2 and all around better.

Hope this makes your decision cut and dry.
--Alex

DaffyXJ · Feb 10, 2008

tkjeeper said:
Like I have advertised here I have several fire department surplus tanks that I'm selling. They are fibreglass wrapped over aluminum. Tested at over 7000 psi and rated to continually carry 4500 psi. My question for you power CO2 tank users is why would this not be comparable to your setup? It seems to me that 4500 psi of air would fill a tonne of tires and run an air tool for a long time wouldn't it? What would be the advantages or disadvantages of an air tank as opposed to a CO2 system?

Volume. The air tank or a Scuba tank does have a higher PSI rating than a 10lb bottle of CO2. But it has less volume. The CO2 renews as it expands from a liquid to a gas. There is a limit of course but it generates a higher volume.
Scuba tanks do work okay, not saying that. But a co2 tank will last longer.

Then there is the flow rate. CFM. A Scuba or air tank has a regulator that won't throw a ton of air at your lungs. This is not enough to seat a bead, or to run a die grinder as an example. The Power tank specifically has a high flow CFM regulator. You can of course run a scuba tank without the regulator but then you get too high of an airflow, or you can add a high flow regulator to the scuba tank.
Then you're back to how many times you need to fill it up over a wheeling season. And there is the availabiltiy of places to fill them up. I hit a welding shop for my CO2 or Nitrogen. Co2 is on average 12 bucks for a fill up. (7-9 lbs)
Again air tanks do work. So do CO2 tanks. True OBA will always only be a York or A/C conversion, however.

ZacSquatch · Feb 10, 2008

You could always use a Paintball air tank as well, like a 88ci 4500psi, or 114 ci 4500 psi

tkjeeper · Feb 10, 2008

Stallacrew said:
CO2 at 4500 or 7000 psi is under enough pressure to undergo a phase change from a gas to a liquid. Compressing air or oxygen takes far far more to turn liquid. There is CO2 in the air but not enought to change the partial pressure and liquify. Air is made of mostly Nitrogen and Oxygen with a few others mixed in there.
So to the advantage/disadvantage part...... CO2 has to make that phase change back to a gas from liquid before it's any good to you. This means that the tank gets COLD if you empty it quickly you can freeze the tank or freeze the lines if you do it improporly. CO2 is less efficient than compressed air or nitrogen.
Compressed air at 4500 or 7000 psi still stay a gas and is johnny on the spot when you need to use it. Thus paintballers ( like myself) use it to run through their guns cause of less moisture in their equipment dues to the condensation, more reliable, more consistant, and doesn't have that CO2 smell ( which I happen to like).
In all, using my not so vast bank of knowledge ( just kidding I stand behind everything I just said) I would absolutely 100% recommend to anyone and choose myself, the air/nitrogen route. More PSI's than CO2 and all around better.

Hope this makes your decision cut and dry.
--Alex

Great info Alex, that's why I belong to this forum. I appreciate you taking the time to type all that.

tkjeeper · Feb 10, 2008

DaffyXJ said:
Volume. The air tank or a Scuba tank does have a higher PSI rating than a 10lb bottle of CO2. But it has less volume. The CO2 renews as it expands from a liquid to a gas. There is a limit of course but it generates a higher volume.
Scuba tanks do work okay, not saying that. But a co2 tank will last longer.

Then there is the flow rate. CFM. A Scuba or air tank has a regulator that won't throw a ton of air at your lungs. This is not enough to seat a bead, or to run a die grinder as an example. The Power tank specifically has a high flow CFM regulator. You can of course run a scuba tank without the regulator but then you get too high of an airflow, or you can add a high flow regulator to the scuba tank.
Then you're back to how many times you need to fill it up over a wheeling season. And there is the availabiltiy of places to fill them up. I hit a welding shop for my CO2 or Nitrogen. Co2 is on average 12 bucks for a fill up. (7-9 lbs)
Again air tanks do work. So do CO2 tanks. True OBA will always only be a York or A/C conversion, however.

But Daffy, cant I get a regulator that will have a different flow rate? Or an adjustable flow rate for seating a bead or running a die grinder? And I am wondering about the cost of filling a CO2 bottle as compared to a air tank, I would think air would be cheaper but I haven't had to pay to fill one yet so we'll see. Thanks for the input daffy.

Stallacrew · Feb 10, 2008

tkjeeper said:
Great info Alex, that's why I belong to this forum. I appreciate you taking the time to type all that.

I dont always have the answers so I like to really let my knowledge be helpful to the fullest when I do know what I am talking about. I'm glad I could help. Anytime.
--Alex

98XJSport · Feb 10, 2008

Air is cheaper, in my paintball days we paid like $4 or $6 a scuba tank vs. $.40/oz for CO2.

Not sure on the regulator part, ours didn't have one as they were fill tanks. Our smaller tanks did, knocked it down to like 500PSI which you regulated on gun down lower again.

ZacSquatch · Feb 10, 2008

I rigged up a system on mine to run a nail gun, steel braided line, few fittings.. sure i could rig up an adapter for tires and such.

speaking of paintball days
me in the purple mohawk down there..

High PSI air tanks instead of Powertank

tkjeeper

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Stallacrew

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DaffyXJ

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ZacSquatch

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tkjeeper

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tkjeeper

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98XJSport

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