PC Guru's - A problem

[Rev Den]

OK..here is the deal.

Got a laptop that when connected to the LAN at most hotels will not give me a "link" light, so I cannot connect. I can take the same cable, unplug it from the problem laptop and plug it into another laptop and it works just fine. The problem machine will work just fine at home off my router there, and works great with wireless. At first I thought it may be a NIC card problem so I picked up a USB-LAN adapter and see the same problem on that.
This is a newer machine and is still under warrenty, but I was hoping one of you may have a simple answer, before I take it back.

Details:
Compaq/HP Presario V5000
Windows XP
Realtek 8139 on-board NIC
Linksys 200M USB NIC

Ideas?

Rev

[87manche]

did you try another cable anyway?

[muduck18]

... long shot ...
if for some reason your NIC or NIC's were set to force full or half duplex. or require a certian speed. Many hotels are still running a 10 meg full or some olders even have 10 meg half on the wire still...
even so, if your NIC is set to require 100MB full duplex the "link" light will never come on because it can not communicate. The same would happen if your NIC(s) were set to require 1000MB Full or Half. on a 100MB network.
RealTek is one cheepest NIC's and I would guess that the driver software is not the smartest.

just my $0.25... damn inflation

[Rev Den]

Yes...I tried another cable.
The NIC is set to auto, however, I did try the different settings wiht no luck. Keep in mind that this is happing with the Realtek and the Linksys. Is it possable that there is a setting "somewhere" that would prevent the NIC from autosensing, independent of the NIC properties?

Thanks


Rev

[mdl]

... long shot ...
if for some reason your NIC or NIC's were set to force full or half duplex. or require a certian speed. Many hotels are still running a 10 meg full or some olders even have 10 meg half on the wire still...
even so, if your NIC is set to require 100MB full duplex the "link" light will never come on because it can not communicate. The same would happen if your NIC(s) were set to require 1000MB Full or Half. on a 100MB network.
RealTek is one cheepest NIC's and I would guess that the driver software is not the smartest.

just my $0.25... damn inflation

Shoulden't matter.

Did you try releasing and renewing you're IP address?

[Rev Den]

You cannot release and renew with no link light on the NIC, there is no IP at that point.

Thanks

Rev

[87manche]

Yes...I tried another cable.
The NIC is set to auto, however, I did try the different settings wiht no luck. Keep in mind that this is happing with the Realtek and the Linksys. Is it possable that there is a setting "somewhere" that would prevent the NIC from autosensing, independent of the NIC properties?

Thanks


Rev
yes.
The link light is really nothing more than a continuity check, but it won't come on if Windows has not powered up the device. USB nics you can watch and see, they don't get a link light until Windows installs the driver. PCI NIC's like your RT should be on all the time.
Have you tried removing and reinstalling the realtek NIC?
You can get updated drivers here:
www.realtek.com.tw
The 8139 drivers will be one of the first things you see in support.
Do you have any sort of firewall software installed?
What kind of equipment do you have at the office and at home that works?

[mdl]

You cannot release and renew with no link light on the NIC, there is no IP at that point.

Thanks

Rev


Oops I misread you're post.

hmm not too sure.. I'll keep thinking and let you know.

[RichP]

Did you tell the front desk that you want to hookup ? your room may not be turned on, plugged in at their switch. Some places charge, some don't. I'm sitting here in orleans ma hooked up wireless but then the whole town has a town run wifi thats free. I could even walkin to the library across the parking lot and plug in but then I'd be too far from the goodies at the chocolate sparrow coffee/million calorie munchie shop :D


The link light like said above is a link/cont indicator, if the power is not there from being plugged into the hotel switch it is the same as not being plugged in.
Well, gotta go, tides coming in so time to go catch some 20lb baits, blues, for the real fishing later on..

[anodyne33]

You cannot release and renew with no link light on the NIC, there is no IP at that point.

Thanks

Rev

I beg to differ there. Your computer should still be seeing it's last IP and default gateway cached. If you're hooked up at a hotel and have this issue again do ipconfig /release then ipconfig/flushdns then try ipconfig /renew. I'm assuming your NIC is set to DHCP right?
shane

[DaJudge]

Sometimes the power management will disable the NIC. I have had this problem a bunch of times with the users I support. Even when you plug it in (meaning the power) the NIC will not automatically enable. Check the power settings and see if it is being disabled. The settings maybe in the software for the NIC as well as the NIC properties in Device Manager.

[87manche]

I beg to differ there. Your computer should still be seeing it's last IP and default gateway cached. If you're hooked up at a hotel and have this issue again do ipconfig /release then ipconfig/flushdns then try ipconfig /renew. I'm assuming your NIC is set to DHCP right?
shane
not if it's been powered down and restarted.
Doesn't matter anyway, without a link light he won't get an IP.
Link light is hardware

[JeepFreak21]

Link light is hardware

http://www.slicky.net/smilies/werd.gif And therefore, I'm going to go with "Hardware Issue for $100, Alex". You can try reinstalling the drivers for the NIC, but I don't think it'll work.
Billy

[Ralph]

Things to check:

Device manager to see if nic is detected and working normally.

Network settings, tcp/ip properties to see if you have both ip address and dns servers set to obtain.

command prompt, run ipconfig and see if you are getting an autoconfigured ip address. It will be a 169.x.x.x address. If so, make sure the patch cable is connected and run ipconfig/renew to try and obtain a new ip from the hotel dhcp server.

command prompt, ping 127.0.0.1. That's loopback and will test tcp/ip and the nic.

If all this is good, then there is something hinky with the hotel network, your patch cable or the network port of your pc.

[87manche]

http://www.slicky.net/smilies/werd.gif And therefore, I'm going to go with "Hardware Issue for $100, Alex". You can try reinstalling the drivers for the NIC, but I don't think it'll work.
Billy
By reinstalling the drivers I'm hoping it resets the power management settings.
The point brought up by judge is valid, a windows disabled NIC will act as though it's totally powered down.
One thing to check would be to boot up to a live cd and see if it worked, then you could narrow it down to a Windows software problem.
http://www.ultimatebootcd.com/download.html
the RT 8139 is a pretty basic NIC, so drivers are included on the CD for it by default.

[JeepFreak21]

By reinstalling the drivers I'm hoping it resets the power management settings.

Yeah, I'm pretty sure this is the case.
Billy

[mdl]

I just remembered (as I looked through old paperwork) I ran into a similar problem last year. Double check and make sure you don't have an IRQ conflict. Solved that little issue last time which was similar to you'rs.

[muduck18]

Shoulden't matter.

Did you try releasing and renewing you're IP address?

Thanks JR. Not that my four years of networking experience is worth anything to you bright kids...but... note.

it works on the lynksys.
doesn't work on the hotel...
Not dhcp... because link light (that's been covered)
no link light... (that means... csmacd isn't working... "carrier sense multi access / collision detction" for those who might wonder)

could it be a driver issue? yes.. but there again works with lynksys

IRQ conflict.. Not likely. if it works with linksys then it will work with any as long as there are no new devices added that take over the device irq. and XP is very good at manageing the IRQ...

the puzzleing thing is the usb ethernet... assumeing the drivers for the usb were installed correctly... it should not affect both...

Power saving would only be an issue if the laptop was comming back from sleep. yes its possible that windows will turn the power off, but a reboot with the wire in will automatically enable it.

truth is it could be somthing as simple as a driver setting, or it could be that the NIC is on the fritz.

My advice.. mess with it for a while, then call in on the warranty..
Still sounds like a duplex or speed issue to me where were you checking when you looked at the properties? under the driver properties or is there a utility? The device could be disabled in as many as 3 or 4 different places...

[muduck18]

1 more thing...
Has it ever worked correctly for you???

And is this computer on a Domain of any type? say a work domain or anything that an admin might control this type of connection? Just a thought, For my company I enable every security I can for when my users are off my network...

[mdl]

Thanks JR. Not that my four years of networking experience is worth anything to you bright kids...but... note.

it works on the lynksys.
doesn't work on the hotel...
Not dhcp... because link light (that's been covered)
no link light... (that means... csmacd isn't working... "carrier sense multi access / collision detction" for those who might wonder)

could it be a driver issue? yes.. but there again works with lynksys

IRQ conflict.. Not likely. if it works with linksys then it will work with any as long as there are no new devices added that take over the device irq. and XP is very good at manageing the IRQ...

the puzzleing thing is the usb ethernet... assumeing the drivers for the usb were installed correctly... it should not affect both...

Power saving would only be an issue if the laptop was comming back from sleep. yes its possible that windows will turn the power off, but a reboot with the wire in will automatically enable it.

truth is it could be somthing as simple as a driver setting, or it could be that the NIC is on the fritz.

My advice.. mess with it for a while, then call in on the warranty..
Still sounds like a duplex or speed issue to me where were you checking when you looked at the properties? under the driver properties or is there a utility? The device could be disabled in as many as 3 or 4 different places...


Hmm.. Ok well since you started it fine.

I'm not some "Kid" I'm an industry professional who has CCNA and CCNP, N+, A+, and BIXY. Actually currently working toward MCSA. 4 Years? I've been working the industry for 6 now. First 2 through a non paying internship through Sun Microsystems and the other 4 through payed work release. Don't give me this crap just because of my age. Do you have any idea how hard it is for employers or customers to trust my skills because of my age? Age has absolutly nothing to do with knoledge.

I'm not going to start a pissing war here, but age dude is off limits. Good example, in the last election people were giving randy shit about his age. That was lame. But you obviously don't understand, because to you were all "JR's".

I don't agree how you said XP handles IRQ's correctly. As I said, there was a completely relevent issue that I have perfectly documented showing as the IRQ at fault for an entirely similar issue.


...And dude. You're only 25...

[Rocketman]

GUYS, relax... It's about fixing the REV, NOT who has the bigger IT DICK!!

In that regard I have all you guys beat to hell. I'm a CCIE and an MCSE AND A+ and EMC SAN, and VMWARE Partner and been in the industry for close to 30 years and go back to mainframe days and worked 10 years for NASA so there........... neener neener neener!!

:rattle:

[Rev Den]

Well...

Thanks all of you.

I have the latest drivers.
Niether the USB Linksys or the Realtek work in the hotels.
This is a personnal laptop, it is not set to any domain.
I can run a crossover from this laptop to another and both link lights come on, connect to the hotel netowrk....nothing, but only on the problem laptop.
The loopback ping shows <1ms ping.
No conflicts are shown.
It has not worked correctly from day 1.


Rocketman PMed me an idea that I will try tommorow when i get back to that hotel....I think I already tried it....but I am not positive.

If that does not work....it will go back under Warrenty.

Again...thanks to ALL of you, this has got me, and a few IT guys totally confused. I spend so much time in hotels and online in those hotels that I have become pretty good at resolving any connections issues, but this one is a bitch.

Rev

[mdl]

GUYS, relax... It's about fixing the REV, NOT who has the bigger IT DICK!!

In that regard I have all you guys beat to hell. I'm a CCIE and an MCSE AND A+ and EMC SAN, and VMWARE Partner and been in the industry for close to 30 years and go back to mainframe days and worked 10 years for NASA so there........... neener neener neener!!

:rattle:

I think you're probobly my hero with CCIE. Where did you take you're test? Arizona or Cali?

[HaleYes]

Well...

Thanks all of you.



No problem.

Glad I could help.

[rsliman]

i just asked my wife... she works IT for cable one... she said.. some nic have a powersaving mode.. if the cable is not plugged into the laptop when it is booted the nic will shut off, an it wont work until a cable is plugged in at startup.

[DaJudge]

Well...

Thanks all of you.

I have the latest drivers.
Niether the USB Linksys or the Realtek work in the hotels.
This is a personnal laptop, it is not set to any domain.
I can run a crossover from this laptop to another and both link lights come on, connect to the hotel netowrk....nothing, but only on the problem laptop.
The loopback ping shows <1ms ping.
No conflicts are shown.
It has not worked correctly from day 1.


Rocketman PMed me an idea that I will try tommorow when i get back to that hotel....I think I already tried it....but I am not positive.

If that does not work....it will go back under Warrenty.

Again...thanks to ALL of you, this has got me, and a few IT guys totally confused. I spend so much time in hotels and online in those hotels that I have become pretty good at resolving any connections issues, but this one is a bitch.

Rev

Damn Rev...that about kills every idea. The only other one I can think of is try forcing it to different speeds. You said it was set to auto, maybe it can't negotiate down to slow speeds. If that is the case atleast you will be able to tell the idiot in the support center more info.

If you get it figured out let us know.

[Rev Den]

Damn Rev...that about kills every idea. The only other one I can think of is try forcing it to different speeds. You said it was set to auto, maybe it can't negotiate down to slow speeds. If that is the case atleast you will be able to tell the idiot in the support center more info.

If you get it figured out let us know.

Yup...tried that also.

Sorry.

thanks anyway.

Rev

[DaJudge]

Yup...tried that also.

Sorry.

thanks anyway.

Rev

Sorry Rev! Looks like your hardware diagnoses is the right one. Let us know if the new one works correctly.

Glen

[muduck18]

Don't give me this crap just because of my age. Do you have any idea how hard it is for employers or customers to trust my skills because of my age? Age has absolutly nothing to do with knoledge.

...And dude. You're only 25...

knowledge

And yes, age has somthing to do with it.

Good luck Rev sorry I didn't mean to start a pissing war.

BTW.. XP pro or XP home? SP?

[87manche]

have fun talking to India Rev :D
Fom what I can tell it seems to be a hardware problem.
I've seen some of the cheaper ADMtek nics have problems with various makes of switches. The cable company was installing some that refused to link up with the switch we had in the shop, linksys I believe.
Anyway, it was a physical problem with the NICs and and some sort of incompatability in them. It's very very odd though that you've gt the problem with a USB NIC also. That really reeks of a software problem.
Any chance that you could reimage the unit? I hate saying that, because now I sound like Dell, but it's really the last ditch attempt at eliminaing a software problem.

[muduck18]

Yeah, Like i said before if the USB nic didn't work... it's probebly OS or Driver related.
I was going to suggest image it...too
I assume you have tried safe mode with networking to load os only drivers..?

[Rev Den]

Well....I do not need to talk to India, not gonna bother with safe mode (good idea though) Thursday it goes back to Circuit City under the warrenty, we will see how good they handle it.

Just tried Safe Mode, no dice.

Thanks again guys, don;t sweat a "pissing match", no biggie.

Rev

[goodburbon]

Here's a possibility


Perhaps the Hotel uses crossover in their walls, and then you are plugging a crossover cable into that. There are a few ways around this. Try a straight thru type cable, or plug a really cheap switch into the wall. I have had success with the cheap switch solution. They will find nothing wrong when you take it in because it will work on their system

In fact I had a computer that worked when plugged into all network ports in the office except the one in its users office, and any other computer worked in that office. Short solution plug a switch into the wall, plug your computer into the switch.

And I have all you other guys beat

I designed all of the computer hardware presently on the surface of the sun.

Brandon

[muduck18]

Here's a possibility


Perhaps the Hotel uses crossover in their walls, and then you are plugging a crossover cable into that. There are a few ways around this. Try a straight thru type cable, or plug a really cheap switch into the wall. I have had success with the cheap switch solution. They will find nothing wrong when you take it in because it will work on their system

In fact I had a computer that worked when plugged into all network ports in the office except the one in its users office, and any other computer worked in that office. Short solution plug a switch into the wall, plug your computer into the switch.

And I have all you other guys beat

I designed all of the computer hardware presently on the surface of the sun.

Brandon

lol :wstupid:

[goodburbon]

Thats not constructive, and yes the IT gurus were baffled, but it works.

[RichP]

Linksys make a small hardware/firewall that is made for traveling. They are about $49 or so and have a 4 port wired and wireless setup, you can turn the wireless off and just use the ports. It's quick way to findout if your nic or the hotel is screwed up. Generally it's the hotel that has the problem using odd ball switches that the contractor got a deal on. It's also a good idea to carry both a straight thru and a crossover cable [marked of course :D ] for the random cable screw up that might not have been buzzed out, nothing like a 568a on the patch panel and a 568b on the wall outlet.

[mdl]

knowledge

And yes, age has somthing to do with it.

Good luck Rev sorry I didn't mean to start a pissing war.

BTW.. XP pro or XP home? SP?


Were you picked on as a kid? Were you melosted by the mail man? You are obviously one of those people who feels the need to come online and start bitching because they get trashed emotionally in real life.



There may be the possibility of there being more than one issue here my friend. Such as you're PCMCIA slot being defective, as well as maybe having another issue with you're ethernet jack. Do you have another card you can try in the PCMCIA? Doesn't have to be interw3b related, just somthing to test the slot.

[goodburbon]

He stated that it works, just not at hotels. Which screams cable issues or config issues.

[XJ Dreamin']

Linksys make a small hardware/firewall that is made for traveling. They are about $49 or so and have a 4 port wired and wireless setup, you can turn the wireless off and just use the ports. It's quick way to findout if your nic or the hotel is screwed up. Generally it's the hotel that has the problem using odd ball switches that the contractor got a deal on. It's also a good idea to carry both a straight thru and a crossover cable [marked of course :D ] for the random cable screw up that might not have been buzzed out, nothing like a 568a on the patch panel and a 568b on the wall outlet.

I got a 568c up my nose the other day. Man! I hate that!


:D I got no idea what you guys are talkin' about :laugh2:

[Rev Den]

Tried the crossover.
The switch may very well work as the laptop will then negotiate with my switch instead of the hotels....but guess what....
Its a new fing laptop....it should work everywhere my other laptop works, not gonna buy a $40 switch to carry around with everything else.
Went to Circuit City today, got the manager dude, he has seen this before....he shut down one of the 2 firewalls that were enabled (whoops) and gave me another option to try if it happens again. If it still does not work after next week (gonna be at one of "those" hotels again) he will swap it out....I thought it was fair.

Rev

[goodburbon]

I agree. We went through several NICs before trying the Switch, and we had the switch free in house. If you have found a tech person at the store who is familiar with the problem and sympathetic to your situation go for it! I, however, doubt the firewall "fix" will work at the hotels that gave you problems before. Remember that guys name, because it will be handy when the problem crops up again.

Brandon

[XJ Dreamin']

Tried the crossover.
The switch may very well work as the laptop will then negotiate with my switch instead of the hotels....but guess what....
Its a new fing laptop....it should work everywhere my other laptop works, not gonna buy a $40 switch to carry around with everything else.
Went to Circuit City today, got the manager dude, he has seen this before....he shut down one of the 2 firewalls that were enabled (whoops) and gave me another option to try if it happens again. If it still does not work after next week (gonna be at one of "those" hotels again) he will swap it out....I thought it was fair.

Rev

Fair at Circuit City. That's almost spooky :shiver:

[muduck18]

Thats not constructive,
So you did put a computer on the sun?
I sensed that as sarcasm...

[muduck18]

Were you picked on as a kid? Were you melosted by the mail man? You are obviously one of those people who feels the need to come online and start bitching because they get trashed emotionally in real life.

No, not picked on.
No, not molested by mail man.

Was I bitching?
You think thats bitching try being married some time.

All this because I called you JR, and corrected your spelling?
Do you have any idea how hard it is for employers or customers to trust my skills because of my age?
Yes, I do, I have three interns right now and they know everything.
I also know what it is like to put myself through college.
You have only succeeded in proveing my point.
Not that my four years of networking experience is worth anything to you bright kids...but... note.
That was not insulting your skills, or intelligence it was saying that you don't care about my age or experience because you can't possible know what it is like to have it.
I am sure you were a very bright 12 year old when you started.
But it doesn't change real world experience. I may "only be 25" but that is about enough to give me 3 and a half to 4 years of real world... and by "real world" i mean the one that my prof in college warned me about.

I would imagine that you will be successful in this profession, if you learn to lighten up, put in some time, and learn to accept some constructive critism.
I am not here to argue with you about your skils or maturity level, please don't make a fool of your self by insulting mine.

~Peace man

[Rev Den]

Remember that guys name, because it will be handy when the problem crops up again.

Brandon

I doubt it also, but it is worth a shot. I do not need to remember his name.....I wrote it down. :D

Rev

[muduck18]

Rev,
You cursed me.. I just set down in a Marriott, the same thing happened to me.

Turns out this one is because they have (as I suspected earlier) a 10Mb connection, my NIC was set to only accept 100 full duplex.

any luck with yours?

[Rev Den]

So far...so good. However, I have not had an oppertunity to test it fully yet. It did work at the last wired hotel...but that was a brand new prperty with IP phones that have a LAN jack.

Rev